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Post by stokie23 on Jun 13, 2018 8:04:37 GMT
Still think that 50m for Butland and Shaq is pure fantasy. Not even sure Butland (or Ndiaye) will leave is it? ...and most of those listed as coming into the team aren't going to make it. Especially not at Prem level. Don't think they planned it, but I also don't believe they were so desperate to avoid plan B. So far it seems that the changes are going according to plan, but then again that's to be expected for a side that's just been relegated and has parachute payments. Agree, probably not best worded on my part, not planned but not end of the world if we went down .... and so far the plan to get us back up is going brilliantly!
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Post by stokie23 on Jun 13, 2018 8:01:04 GMT
Lets get one thing right, I'm not suggesting that the owners wanted us to get relegated...but I think it's more than plausible that they looked at our situation in January and said 'its not the worst thing if we did get relegated', and so didn't gamble fully on bringing in A) A quality manager on big money B) A £20M+ Striker (or 2). We had a disjointed team and a large wage bill (which would have had to be increased to bring in better quality players to stave off relegation the following year). Add into that a new manager for the 2018-19 season, a larger transfer budget, lower season ticket sales and next seasons projection may have been a net loss. The Coates Family aren't multi millionaires, they're multi billionaires and surely ruthless business people with good foresight. Many have stated that they would rather see Stoke winning / challenging to win the Championship than fighting relegation in the Prem - Did Coates get this and get the financial benefits more so !? WagesTop earners that will leave / have left : Butland / Shaqiri / Ndiaye / Wimmer / Jese / Zouma Big earners (in comparison to average championship wages) that could leave/ have left : Adam / Afellay / Crouch / Diouf / Choupo / Johnson / Ramadam God knows how much we will ultimately recoup on wages, but its unquestionably into the tens of millions - now add in the players that we may see more of next year on a fraction of that wage... Edwards / Ngoy / Verlinden / Campbell / Shenton / Sorensen / Telford Not saying they will all start or even most but it 1-2 break through its a massive saving on their predecessor in that position. Transfer FeesSo far we have broken even on the Ramadan / Etebo deals. We will break even on the Shaqiri / Afobe deals and still have an estimated £50m to come in through the sales of Butland and Ndiaye ! It could be argued that even now we have a team that would be challenging, let alone reinvesting the remaining £50m. -------------------Grant------------------ Edwards--- Shawcross ----Indi---- Pieters --------------Allen-----Imbula*----------- Bauer-------------Bojan-------------Etebo -------------------Afobe------------------ *Sorensen for Imbula if sold or plays up again. Could all just be a blessing in disguise but it would not surprise me at all if the sums were totted up in January and relegation was the most financially viable option - Would also make sense why we have acted so early re. new manager our 2 new signings - has all this has been planned for a while? I am completely incredulous reading this. If this was about making money, they would never have bought the club back. Over his life-time, Peter Coates has shown nothing but commitment to the club and its supporters. He has been tempered at times by the reality of running a club of this size, but I honestly believe he is one of us. He wants the same things we do. The history and evidence supports that rather than some conspiracy of planned failure. Mate you are completely missing the point, and ignoring the fact I proceeded everything I said with 'Lets get one thing right, I'm not suggesting that the owners wanted us to get relegated' ! There is no conspiracy of planned failure - Im saying its more than plausible that he weighed up spending another 30m in January and almost guaranteeing staying up or spending a very respectable amount of money, as he did, and giving it a good go - knowing if relegation came from it we could still be in a strong position with an opportunity to even make more money. Premier league isn't everything, financially stability of the club he loves is very important too !!! On the recent savvy business we have done, I can't wait for next season !
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Post by stokie23 on Jun 13, 2018 7:37:36 GMT
Well I suppose a message board is exactly the sort of place where a guy can post an opinion and get honest feedback. Please don't think I'm trying be clever, attack the owners, or make some outlandish statement. I bloody love Peter Coates and what he has done for the club.. I'm saying the money that would have need to be spent in the prem to correct this team (new manager, a lot of new players) is far less than a complete overhaul in the league below. If our wage bill is 90m in the prem and we reduce it by a third in the championship to 60m - we have saved 30m .... If we sell players and make £30m net profit, were up to £60m....Stoke made about £100m in prize money payments last season that will drop to about £7m in the championship now putting us to -£33m.... Stoke parachute payments are about £62m.....meaning we are at a net gain of 29m ! So the simple question is, considering we typically break even, would we be better off financially going down and (GRANTED) coming straight back up or staying up and spending a lot of money. I thought it was a genuinely interested theory, but apparently not
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Post by stokie23 on Jun 13, 2018 6:23:15 GMT
The money from the premier league counteracts a lot of that. We're stuck with players on big money (Bojan, Imbula, Berahino). We'll be lucky to get the entirety of their wages off the books, even luckier to get any sort of worthwhile fee for them, especially now that we're in the championship, and even luckier again if they start playing well - even still, we'll be stuck with their big wages in the championship. There's no financial benefit from relegation, they would have much preferred to stay up and tighten their purses. Added to that, a lot of people will have lost/will lose their jobs because of relegation. I don't believe for one second that they would have wanted us to go down. Yea, as I said, no way do I believe that they wanted us to go down but I certainly think they don’t see it as devastating as perhaps some of the supporters do. Feels as though they have a plan to get back and that plan could also be financially beneficial if they pull it off. Get the point about Imbula, Bojan, Berahino but not a nightmare if they played for the team and contributed or were loaned and therefore wages paid by another club. Can see clubs wanting Imbula and Bojan... need to get Berahino scoring though, because can’t see anyone going in for him!
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Post by stokie23 on Jun 13, 2018 5:49:23 GMT
Lets get one thing right, I'm not suggesting that the owners wanted us to get relegated...but I think it's more than plausible that they looked at our situation in January and said 'its not the worst thing if we did get relegated', and so didn't gamble fully on bringing in A) A quality manager on big money B) A £20M+ Striker (or 2).
We had a disjointed team and a large wage bill (which would have had to be increased to bring in better quality players to stave off relegation the following year). Add into that a new manager for the 2018-19 season, a larger transfer budget, lower season ticket sales and next seasons projection may have been a net loss.
The Coates Family aren't multi millionaires, they're multi billionaires and surely ruthless business people with good foresight. Many have stated that they would rather see Stoke winning / challenging to win the Championship than fighting relegation in the Prem - Did Coates get this and get the financial benefits more so !?
Wages
Top earners that will leave / have left : Butland / Shaqiri / Ndiaye / Wimmer / Jese / Zouma
Big earners (in comparison to average championship wages) that could leave/ have left : Adam / Afellay / Crouch / Diouf / Choupo / Johnson / Ramadam
God knows how much we will ultimately recoup on wages, but its unquestionably into the tens of millions - now add in the players that we may see more of next year on a fraction of that wage...
Edwards / Ngoy / Verlinden / Campbell / Shenton / Sorensen / Telford
Not saying they will all start or even most but it 1-2 break through its a massive saving on their predecessor in that position.
Transfer Fees
So far we have broken even on the Ramadan / Etebo deals. We will break even on the Shaqiri / Afobe deals and still have an estimated £50m to come in through the sales of Butland and Ndiaye !
It could be argued that even now we have a team that would be challenging, let alone reinvesting the remaining £50m.
-------------------Grant------------------
Edwards--- Shawcross ----Indi---- Pieters
--------------Allen-----Imbula*-----------
Bauer-------------Bojan-------------Etebo
-------------------Afobe------------------
*Sorensen for Imbula if sold or plays up again.
Could all just be a blessing in disguise but it would not surprise me at all if the sums were totted up in January and relegation was the most financially viable option - Would also make sense why we have acted so early re. new manager our 2 new signings - has all this has been planned for a while?
***EDIT - thread title changed from 'Did the Coates Family truly want us to stay up' to 'Stoke financially better off long term' ?? because some people missing the point of my post.
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Post by stokie23 on Jun 4, 2018 12:07:54 GMT
Brilliant listen, Legend Ricardo!
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Formation
May 22, 2018 20:55:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by stokie23 on May 22, 2018 20:55:37 GMT
442 at Burton 4231 at Brum 4411 at Derby
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Post by stokie23 on May 21, 2018 13:34:55 GMT
10m per year ! Jesus Christ , that’s more than 95% of the footballers in the league as well.
In terms of players, they would need to realistically spend 100m + to challenge for the 5-7 places , 200m for top 4. Can’t see it !
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Post by stokie23 on May 21, 2018 11:10:53 GMT
Negative, no plan B, no creativity, build up or wing play, sit back and plays on the counter, in for a long season. Says my Derby supporting colleague Everybody has opinions but no reason to suppose any of them are wiser or more believable than another. There is just as much pro and anti rhetoric about Allardyce, Moyes and the other suspects. With all of them the truth probably lies somewhere in the midst of it all but exactly where, who knows? It's healthy forum fun but I wouldn't hang my hat on any opinion, even my own. Built a great burton team on a small budget, got them playing great football. Didn’t see much of how Derby played but you would like to think we would have better players/ resources etc ...
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Post by stokie23 on May 19, 2018 8:15:54 GMT
Remember me and my mate Carl getting autographs after a game about 14 years ago ( we were about 13 years old ).
We got Clint just as him and his missus were getting into their car opposite the club shop. As Carl waited for his autrograph, he looked at Clints missus and said ‘you’re a very lucky lady’ , followed by an awkward silence. 😝
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Post by stokie23 on May 18, 2018 16:59:53 GMT
Seems like, aside from Zouma and Wimmer (hopefully) we won’t loose any defenders so really need to prioritise the forward players in this window!
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Post by stokie23 on May 18, 2018 15:59:04 GMT
Tried and failed, give him a striker in January and maybe the difference. Nice guy, good luck to him! GOARRNN stoke! I really don't get the 'striker making the difference' thing. We create next to nothing for a striker to do anything with! The general build up play was too slow, with zero movement. Didier Drogba in his prime would have struggled with our build up play. I watched Mame Diouf miss first half sitters every week for about 3/4 consecutive games...put them away, could have been different.
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Post by stokie23 on May 18, 2018 14:23:37 GMT
Tried and failed, give him a striker in January and maybe the difference.
Nice guy, good luck to him!
GOARRNN stoke!
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Post by stokie23 on May 17, 2018 15:10:29 GMT
L Pathetic excuse for a piece of journalism and if he has only been responsible for 5 signings in his five and a half years at the club then what the fuck has he been doing the rest of the time. ...apart from eating? Seems like his role is to be a bit of a chancer and go between but I'm not sure some fat nobody with his cv is going to open many doors! Another piece of lame PR that fails badly in it's transparent attempt to justify and sustain the failed status quo. We made 35 signings under the Hughes tenure of 4.5 years so based upon being “responsible for 5 signings” he’s be paid a bloody good wage for very little other than keeping spreadsheets up to date. The big question is who then is responsible for “due diligence” in respect of the recruitment of players? Let’s me answer that question for you !!! From the Congleton news article on page 1 ... My current role: In my role as Technical Director at Stoke City, an average day will start with an informal chat with the manager, discuss how the players have performed, how they are training, the upcoming game for example, then plenty of phone calls from agents throughout the day. I will also have several chats with our CEO about the plans for the future and what is needed to be done now in order to get a head start for the next transfer window. I will meet with my team of scouts to discuss various positions and targets and whilst they are out travelling every weekend and during the week watching games, I am more specific and only go to watch games where there are potential 1st team players to make decisions on. There is a lot of information gathering and due diligence to keep me nice and busy!Basically the biggest part of my job is the identifying and then the buying and selling any of the players that come into Stoke City from age 12 through to the first team.
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Post by stokie23 on May 17, 2018 12:52:35 GMT
This is from his own mouth: "Basically the biggest part of my job is the identifying and then the buying and selling any of the players that come into Stoke City from age 12 through to the first team." www.congletonhigh.com/253/mark-cartwright-technical-director-stoke-city-fcAnd if he isn't involved with the final say, he needs to go too. When he joined on 10th December 2012, the club said this: "In an increasingly complex market, it's important that we are as organised, thorough and skilled in this area as possible." Has he achieved that? Has he bollocks. He has to go. Great find this !
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Post by stokie23 on May 17, 2018 12:12:01 GMT
The article keeps referring to his ‘Supporters’ who the fuck are they? Not one single person who has any affiliation with Stoke can say the recruitment have done a good job. It’s a stomach turning PR stunt taking us all for fucking retards! The one thing it looks like he does is ‘Tap Up’ players to see if they want to come which we are not allowed to do.
Pathetic from the club, pathetic from The Sentinel as per ... Get fucking real. To be fair, what is the deal with ‘tapping up’ I didn’t think you could speak to players until a bid had been accepted. Is this the way around it; getting agents/technical directors to ask the players on their behalf?
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Post by stokie23 on May 16, 2018 21:24:05 GMT
The relevance is that everybody wants to sprout his managerial achievements at Everton but not about his achievements at other clubs, such as man utd and west ham. Just not sure that he is the right choice for Stoke and more to the point I don’t think he will even consider it, why would he? He did fine at West Ham. He did bang average at West Ham... take Arnie out of that team and they go down. West Ham before Moyes: P26 W6 D8 L12 GF29 GA47 GD-18 Pts26 West Ham with Moyes: P26 W7 D9 L10 GF34 GA44 GD-10 Pts30
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Post by stokie23 on May 11, 2018 11:58:03 GMT
What time does the presser start today?
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Post by stokie23 on May 10, 2018 20:37:12 GMT
Alas only 0.1% of a (very) full match day universe though.*
Prof John Curtice wouldn't be having that as "robust", sadly.
I think it's more the overwhelming verdict that is more compelling Grapey.
* some clever maths-y person better check that for me. True! Try getting 92% support for anything......
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Post by stokie23 on May 7, 2018 22:23:15 GMT
Oh I want him gone alright and it would be catastrophic if he stayed in but given what he’s had to manage ( and done it very well ) behind the scenes Id feel a little uncomfortable singing it Each to their own though THIS. The guy has tried his best and failed but he’s not the complete arrogant wanker that Hughes is. Surely a ‘what’s all the fuss about’ chant gets the point across more of the mess the club are in, which would include the appointment of Lambert.
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Post by stokie23 on May 7, 2018 8:36:33 GMT
I won't blame Lambert for taking us down, he could only play what he had to play, but I think I can guarantee that he won't get us promoted. His subbing leaves me absolutely flummoxed. Peter Coates, if you are serious about SCFC, and I'm sure you are, you need to ship out Lambert with a lot of the deadwood. I don't know who might replace Lambert, but there must be better prospects in or around the game.The players that need unloading are an easir thing. Too many overpayed and under performing mercenaries on the books. I understanding what your saying. Lambert is ultimately responsibly for our relegation but there are at least 3/4 others I would blame more for the situation the club is currently in ( Hughes, several of board, certain mercenarie players...) I want Lambert gone and a fresh start with a Graham Potter type but if he has to stay, please for Christ sake him him the money to do it... and make the decision early if it’s all going tits up !
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Post by stokie23 on May 7, 2018 8:29:56 GMT
Yeah, I don't give a fuck - I want that cunt Hughes down. If it means we've gotta lose, I'm all for it - and I'll celebrate like it's a fucking win too. Can safely say, never wanted stoke to loose a game but considering we’re already relegated, if a loss will relegate Hughes...do eeet
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Post by stokie23 on May 4, 2018 8:08:04 GMT
Nothing wrong with what’s been said but we really need a performance from him tomorrow - unquestionable that he hasn’t turned up last few games
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Post by stokie23 on May 2, 2018 16:18:02 GMT
Should be a good listen 👍
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Post by stokie23 on Apr 26, 2018 18:51:25 GMT
Sadly, he isn't worse than Lambert. give me Lambert over Hughes ANYDAY
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Post by stokie23 on Apr 23, 2018 21:21:38 GMT
I’m as unhappy as anyone and surely we could have gone all out for a striker in January but what I am taking away from the article is that the poor signings were on Hughes and not Scholes or Cartwright, basically slagging off his judgement as a manager...
Let’s hope they back Lambert and he is a better judge of a players character than Hughes !
Can’t be much worse than the guy that brought in Jese, Wimmer, Fletcher, Berahino, Imbula etc .
Coates not helping himself at all but make no mistake, it’s Hughes’ fault we are in the position
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Post by stokie23 on Apr 22, 2018 22:09:50 GMT
That’s one perspective ... let me give you another... Of the 14 stoke players that participated in today’s game I saw 3 players properly address/clap the fans...that in itself is shameful. The 3 players were Ryan Shawcross - Got the recognition/applause he deserved. Jack Butland - Had a go at a fan which is pretty much the opposite of showing his appreciation. Eric Pieters - dog shite as usual but fair play, he always claps the fans at the end. It’s been said but fans are entitled to react however they want, that includes booing - which I heard abit of at FT. I personally clap the players off when we put in a performance and show max effort, other wise I don’t - safe to say I haven’t clapped he players off much this season and think it’s sad that thousands of fans do clap the players off regardless of performance. They may try and come back with ‘it’s called supporting your team’ but fuck me, what have they given us really over the cause of this season and yet some will earn more after tax this month than most on here will earn in 5 years ! I’ll have my season ticket as usual next year but al be fucked if that shower o of shite get a standing ovation after a 2nd half performance like that in a ‘must win’ game. Where were the leaders??...who wanted to make a name for themselve and grab the game by the scruff of the neck and drag us over the line... same as West Ham, same as Brighton, same as Bournemouth, same as Watford, same as Southampton, same as Leicester, same as ....... etc etc . Side note - Thought the crowd in general were okay today especially first half when the players gave us something. 17th minute for Shawcross was great. Crouch, Shaqiri, Allen, Ndiaye to name but a few were all clapping the crowd at the end....... Perhaps, maybe I’m old fashioned and I prefer the players actually walking 20 yards towards the supporters and addressing all four sides of the ground as apposed to a quick clap in the centre circle then get back to the changing rooms soon as. As Jack, Ryan and Eric were doing the rounds most all other players were off the pitch. Regardless; my point was fans are entitled to boo / clap / not clap, they are paying good money every week. Previous poster has it right, Lambert himself said ‘we need to give them something to cheer about’ ..
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Post by stokie23 on Apr 22, 2018 21:56:18 GMT
That’s one perspective ... let me give you another...
Of the 14 stoke players that participated in today’s game I saw 3 players properly address/clap the fans...that in itself is shameful.
The 3 players were Ryan Shawcross - Got the recognition/applause he deserved. Jack Butland - Had a go at a fan which is pretty much the opposite of showing his appreciation. Eric Pieters - dog shite as usual but fair play, he always claps the fans at the end.
It’s been said but fans are entitled to react however they want, that includes booing - which I heard abit of at FT. I personally clap the players off when we put in a performance and show max effort, other wise I don’t - safe to say I haven’t clapped he players off much this season and think it’s sad that thousands of fans do clap the players off regardless of performance. They may try and come back with ‘it’s called supporting your team’ but fuck me, what have they given us really over the cause of this season and yet some will earn more after tax this month than most on here will earn in 5 years !
I’ll have my season ticket as usual next year but al be fucked if that shower o of shite get a standing ovation after a 2nd half performance like that in a ‘must win’ game. Where were the leaders??...who wanted to make a name for themselve and grab the game by the scruff of the neck and drag us over the line... same as West Ham, same as Brighton, same as Bournemouth, same as Watford, same as Southampton, same as Leicester, same as ....... etc etc .
Side note - Thought the crowd in general were okay today especially first half when the players gave us something. 17th minute for Shawcross was great.
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Post by stokie23 on Apr 15, 2018 13:55:21 GMT
I wouldn’t put money on us staying up - put it that way.
But, personally, a bit disheartening to see so many fans have given up completely already...perhaps just a coping mechanism should we go down.
The FACT is, if we beat West Ham on Monday we will be 3 points behind Swansea in 17th who we still have to play. Plus they have a worse run in.
Still believe, but a loss Monday makes it almost impossible.
GOARRN STOKE ! 😀
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Post by stokie23 on Apr 14, 2018 21:31:10 GMT
Beginning Monday :
West Ham Away 0-1 Burnley at Home 1:0 Liverpool Away 1:2 Palace at Home 1:0 Swansea Away 1-3
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