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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 17, 2024 17:38:26 GMT
Fair point. They could still however - remand them till the hearing. I’d say there’s enough evidence to do that. - prioritise the investigation. I think the argument is the inconstancy around some investigations being completed in a lot less time than others or the way the media put slants on stories. Consistency is key. Surely you know you can't be remanded in custody without being charged, which is the whole issue and then it would be for a judge to decide. Id be very surprised if the investigation isn't being given very high priority There are Two Policemen under Criminal Investigation one before arrest and one after. I'm not aware that IOPC have completed those investigations never mind CPS made a charging decision. At least one if not both could be prosecution witnesses. It's complicated and there is a big responsibility on IOPC and CPS to get it right. There is a hell of a difference between people being charged, pleading guilty and being sent to Gaol. No-one in this case has put there hand up, far from it. A recent case discussed on here, it was just over a year before Martyn Blake was charged with Murder of Chris Kaba and a further 13 months befit came to trial. Therefore I see no inconstancy, the Criminal Justice System grinds slowly. You well know depending on which Media you read you can predict the slant of the story, this is hardly new. My issue is there is enough evidence for them to be charged and quickly. There actions could never be deemed as self defence so I’m not sure where the argument comes from in relation to the officers actions having an impact on the decision. Additionally if there’s belief that they will not come back to court will commit an offence will interfere with witnesses or obstruct the course of the case They can be remanded I’d say from the level of violence used there’s a very good chance they will commit an offence. There’s been plenty more complicated cases where those under suspicion have been charged and remanded eg Nottingham. Like Mr Kaba I’m sure that any sound minded person knows that the behaviour displayed isn’t a one off and no doubt they have a long history of violence. To not think otherwise would be naive. |
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Post by lordb on Nov 17, 2024 17:39:45 GMT
No idea but it's a terrible look given how obvious the assault was, made worse by the focus/cover up around the police officer's "head kick" over the preceding crimes. As an absolute minimum they should be behind bars as we speak shouldn't they while they await their sentencing? In well over 90% of countries around the world, the scum bags involved would have been shot dead within a couple of seconds so they can count themselves incredibly fortunate to be alive. If this attack had happened in the location of their flight departure, it would have been a different story for them. Re the obvious hypocrisy, you were not someone who came to mind given your criticism of both previous and current governments along with critique around the whole tweeting sentencing madness. Good God you have personally convicted them already without the inconvenience of a Trial Do you have any idea how the Criminal Justice System works? The 90% of countries statement is also factually incorrect/nonsense |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2024 17:40:15 GMT
No idea but it's a terrible look given how obvious the assault was, made worse by the focus/cover up around the police officer's "head kick" over the preceding crimes. As an absolute minimum they should be behind bars as we speak shouldn't they while they await their sentencing? In well over 90% of countries around the world, the scum bags involved would have been shot dead within a couple of seconds so they can count themselves incredibly fortunate to be alive. If this attack had happened in the location of their flight departure, it would have been a different story for them. Re the obvious hypocrisy, you were not someone who came to mind given your criticism of both previous and current governments along with critique around the whole tweeting sentencing madness. Good God you have personally convicted them already without the inconvenience of a Trial Do you have any idea how the Criminal Justice System works? Your double standards are becoming comical. Like I say, you're just not even subtle about it anymore are you? If I had the time, energy and could be fucked, I'd love to dig out some of your pro government rhetoric around arresting protestors/tweeters in the summer - You had a very different view on those cases didn't you? That's excluding your painfully cringe worthy support for a government at every opportunity that is evidently failing the nation despite them making the EXACT (and many additional ones) same mistakes as the government you criticised daily on here for fuck knows how long. You're like Starmer's fully paid up little mouthpiece for the Oatcake aren't you? 😊 |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 17, 2024 17:40:47 GMT
Good God you have personally convicted them already without the inconvenience of a Trial Do you have any idea how the Criminal Justice System works? The 90% of countries statement is also factually incorrect/nonsense What is the percentage then? |
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Post by lordb on Nov 17, 2024 17:43:20 GMT
The 90% of countries statement is also factually incorrect/nonsense What is the percentage then? Common sense would suggest massively less Certainly less than a quarter and probably less than that |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 17, 2024 17:44:27 GMT
What is the percentage then? Common sense would suggest massively less Certainly less than a quarter and probably less than that You don’t know then? |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 17, 2024 17:47:47 GMT
No idea but it's a terrible look given how obvious the assault was, made worse by the focus/cover up around the police officer's "head kick" over the preceding crimes. As an absolute minimum they should be behind bars as we speak shouldn't they while they await their sentencing? In well over 90% of countries around the world, the scum bags involved would have been shot dead within a couple of seconds so they can count themselves incredibly fortunate to be alive. If this attack had happened in the location of their flight departure, it would have been a different story for them. Re the obvious hypocrisy, you were not someone who came to mind given your criticism of both previous and current governments along with critique around the whole tweeting sentencing madness. Good God you have personally convicted them already without the inconvenience of a Trial Do you have any idea how the Criminal Justice System works? That aside. from seeing the video of the initial incident. The one that wasn’t shown till after the community unrest what would your defence be re their behaviour? |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2024 17:54:17 GMT
What is the percentage then? Common sense would suggest massively less Certainly less than a quarter and probably less than that Do you really believe that? You really think that armed police in the vast majority of countries around the world wouldn't use their weapons when being pummelled repeatedly at a major airport with some colleagues (including females) knocked out lying on the floor, while being outnumbered? You've got a pretty cuddly, idealistic view of police forces at international airports.... And actually, that's excluding the fact that many major airports around the world (Pretty much the entirety of Africa, South America and East Asia) are secured by military NOT police... Again, I don't think it takes much imagination to think what the response might be at say Cairo, Lagos or Tunis Airport if this happened. They'd be fucking wiped out in seconds and could have no complaints. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2024 17:58:52 GMT
What is the percentage then? Common sense would suggest massively less Certainly less than a quarter and probably less than that Common sense clearly evades you frequently Lordb...about as much common sense as Cardi B... Certainly no lord 😊 Actually based on her recent car crash endorsement of Crazy Kamala, your political views probably aren't too dissimilar 😏 |
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Post by sticky on Nov 17, 2024 18:00:38 GMT
So twatting airport staff doesn’t come with a swift lengthy sentence then. that’s a great deterrent
Should be prioritised and sorted out by now, everyone can see it’s a very contentious issue. Be interesting to see what sort of jail term we’re looking at as well
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2024 18:03:34 GMT
So twatting airport staff doesn’t come with a swift lengthy sentence then. that’s a great deterrent Should be prioritised and sorted out by now, everyone can see it’s a very contentious issue. Be interesting to see what sort of jail term we’re looking at as well But if you're a middle aged white lady tweeting a nasty tweet, you're going straight behind bars! Good to know our imbecilic establishment have their priorities right. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2024 18:07:10 GMT
No idea but it's a terrible look given how obvious the assault was, made worse by the focus/cover up around the police officer's "head kick" over the preceding crimes. As an absolute minimum they should be behind bars as we speak shouldn't they while they await their sentencing? In well over 90% of countries around the world, the scum bags involved would have been shot dead within a couple of seconds so they can count themselves incredibly fortunate to be alive. If this attack had happened in the location of their flight departure, it would have been a different story for them. Re the obvious hypocrisy, you were not someone who came to mind given your criticism of both previous and current governments along with critique around the whole tweeting sentencing madness. Good God you have personally convicted them already without the inconvenience of a Trial Do you have any idea how the Criminal Justice System works? Whereas he is supportive of Trump, a convicted criminal, who will never be sentenced. He then has the nerve to call others hypocrites! |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 17, 2024 18:10:21 GMT
These scum bags were filmed by CCTV carrying out this act of thuggery. They should have been charged straight away and sentenced whilst the investigation continues
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2024 18:12:56 GMT
So twatting airport staff doesn’t come with a swift lengthy sentence then. that’s a great deterrent Should be prioritised and sorted out by now, everyone can see it’s a very contentious issue. Be interesting to see what sort of jail term we’re looking at as well But if you're a middle aged white lady tweeting a nasty tweet, you're going straight behind bars! Good to know our imbecilic establishment have their priorities right. You don’t believe in a right to a fair trial then? If you charged with a criminal offence and plead guilty, you will be sentenced and dealt with. If you plead not guilty it will take much longer as everyone is rightly innocent until proven guilty. In the Crown Court it takes an average of 83 weeks in Manchester because your beloved Tories ruined the justice system. When there is a separate police investigation to complete first, it will take longer. This is basic stuff. You either believe we are all equal before the law, or you don’t. Those complaining about this case don’t believe in equality before the law. They are opposed to the Magna Carta, the foundation upon which our country’s society is built upon. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2024 18:14:23 GMT
These scum bags were filmed by CCTV carrying out this act of thuggery. They should have been charged straight away and sentenced whilst the investigation continues Like Ben Stokes then. Do you think he should have been charged and found guilty without a trial or a right of defence? |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 17, 2024 18:21:48 GMT
These scum bags were filmed by CCTV carrying out this act of thuggery. They should have been charged straight away and sentenced whilst the investigation continues Like Ben Stokes then. Do you think he should have been charged and found guilty without a trial or a right of defence? Not quite the same situation as a street fight outside a nightclub is it? Do you think it’s ok to assault police? |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 17, 2024 18:22:04 GMT
Surely you know you can't be remanded in custody without being charged, which is the whole issue and then it would be for a judge to decide. Id be very surprised if the investigation isn't being given very high priority There are Two Policemen under Criminal Investigation one before arrest and one after. I'm not aware that IOPC have completed those investigations never mind CPS made a charging decision. At least one if not both could be prosecution witnesses. It's complicated and there is a big responsibility on IOPC and CPS to get it right. There is a hell of a difference between people being charged, pleading guilty and being sent to Gaol. No-one in this case has put there hand up, far from it. A recent case discussed on here, it was just over a year before Martyn Blake was charged with Murder of Chris Kaba and a further 13 months befit came to trial. Therefore I see no inconstancy, the Criminal Justice System grinds slowly. You well know depending on which Media you read you can predict the slant of the story, this is hardly new. My issue is there is enough evidence for them to be charged and quickly. There actions could never be deemed as self defence so I’m not sure where the argument comes from in relation to the officers actions having an impact on the decision. Additionally if there’s belief that they will not come back to court will commit an offence will interfere with witnesses or obstruct the course of the case They can be remanded I’d say from the level of violence used there’s a very good chance they will commit an offence. There’s been plenty more complicated cases where those under suspicion have been charged and remanded eg Nottingham. Like Mr Kaba I’m sure that any sound minded person knows that the behaviour displayed isn’t a one off and no doubt they have a long history of violence. To not think otherwise would be naive. I guess where we fundamentally differ is whether you have trust in the Criminal Justice System or not, i have made the point previous if we can't then as a Country we are in serious trouble. By the way I'm not saying categorically we can. You have made the point several times that video can be manipulated, I'm not saying it has in this case but I don't know if the general public has seen everything or the motivation which the IOPC are considering The argument about the Officers is purely my point. The IOPC remit is to conduct a complete investigation and present all evidence to CPS with recommendations, how can they possibly do that if they have not completed their Criminal investigation into the two Officers who may be central to the prosecution. For what it's worth my further speculation is that a decision on the two Officers will be quickly followed by a charging decision on the Brothers. You said Additionally if there’s belief that they
will not come back to court
will commit an offence
will interfere with witnesses or obstruct the course of the caseThey can be remanded
None of these are applicable if they haven't been charged and it would be for a Judge to decide Are you suggesting that the Nottingham case was complicated? I have no idea if the Brothers have Criminal Records, we do know another Brother is a Police Officer |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 17, 2024 18:25:05 GMT
Good God you have personally convicted them already without the inconvenience of a Trial Do you have any idea how the Criminal Justice System works? Your double standards are becoming comical. Like I say, you're just not even subtle about it anymore are you? If I had the time, energy and could be fucked, I'd love to dig out some of your pro government rhetoric around arresting protestors/tweeters in the summer - You had a very different view on those cases didn't you? That's excluding your painfully cringe worthy support for a government at every opportunity that is evidently failing the nation despite them making the EXACT (and many additional ones) same mistakes as the government you criticised daily on here for fuck knows how long. You're like Starmer's fully paid up little mouthpiece for the Oatcake aren't you? 😊 Just because you made an idiot of yourself, there's no need to have a hissy fit about it. |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 17, 2024 18:32:00 GMT
Good God you have personally convicted them already without the inconvenience of a Trial Do you have any idea how the Criminal Justice System works? That aside. from seeing the video of the initial incident. The one that wasn’t shown till after the community unrest what would your defence be re their behaviour? Their behaviour can't be defended, I'm 99% sure without checking that I said as much at the time. That's a very different question to how the Criminal Justice System works |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 17, 2024 18:42:26 GMT
So twatting airport staff doesn’t come with a swift lengthy sentence then. that’s a great deterrent It is indeed a great deterrent, oh no, wait... |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 17, 2024 18:48:03 GMT
Your double standards are becoming comical. Like I say, you're just not even subtle about it anymore are you? If I had the time, energy and could be fucked, I'd love to dig out some of your pro government rhetoric around arresting protestors/tweeters in the summer - You had a very different view on those cases didn't you? That's excluding your painfully cringe worthy support for a government at every opportunity that is evidently failing the nation despite them making the EXACT (and many additional ones) same mistakes as the government you criticised daily on here for fuck knows how long. You're like Starmer's fully paid up little mouthpiece for the Oatcake aren't you? 😊 Just because you made an idiot of yourself, there's no need to have a hissy fit about it. There we go. Triggered as usual when your obvious double standards are called out.😊 |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 17, 2024 18:48:28 GMT
That aside. from seeing the video of the initial incident. The one that wasn’t shown till after the community unrest what would your defence be re their behaviour? Their behaviour can't be defended, I'm 99% sure without checking that I said as much at the time. That's a very different question to how the Criminal Justice System works well like with the Kaba case we’ll see how it plays out but I think we can agree their Acton’s can’t be defended. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2024 20:51:50 GMT
Like Ben Stokes then. Do you think he should have been charged and found guilty without a trial or a right of defence? Not quite the same situation as a street fight outside a nightclub is it? Do you think it’s ok to assault police? No not usually, but had, for example, someone punched the police officer who was murdering George Floyd I would say that person did the right thing. That’s assaulting a police officer but that person would have been a lifesaver and completely justified in assaulting the police officer. But a video showing them punch the police officer would suggest they are guilty. Is it ok to assault people outside a nightclub? No, generally not. But there are definitely some circumstances when it is ok. And Ben Stokes was found not guilty of affray. If you just use the video footage he is guilty. I think it is best to let the investigations conclude. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 17, 2024 20:57:57 GMT
Not quite the same situation as a street fight outside a nightclub is it? Do you think it’s ok to assault police? No not usually, but had, for example, someone punched the police officer who was murdering George Floyd I would say that person did the right thing. That’s assaulting a police officer but that person would have been a lifesaver and completely justified in assaulting the police officer. But a video showing them punch the police officer would suggest they are guilty. Is it ok to assault people outside a nightclub? No, generally not. But there are definitely some circumstances when it is ok. And Ben Stokes was found not guilty of affray. If you just use the video footage he is guilty. I think it is best to let the investigations conclude. Ok there are slight nuances with our opinions, as usual😉 but I appreciate the reasoned reply oggy. It’s just so cut and dried that it winds people (like me) up that a crime thats so obvious is dragged on forever and a day. I do feel like there are more ulterior motives with this particular delay though. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2024 21:14:26 GMT
No not usually, but had, for example, someone punched the police officer who was murdering George Floyd I would say that person did the right thing. That’s assaulting a police officer but that person would have been a lifesaver and completely justified in assaulting the police officer. But a video showing them punch the police officer would suggest they are guilty. Is it ok to assault people outside a nightclub? No, generally not. But there are definitely some circumstances when it is ok. And Ben Stokes was found not guilty of affray. If you just use the video footage he is guilty. I think it is best to let the investigations conclude. Ok there are slight nuances with our opinions, as usual😉 but I appreciate the reasoned reply oggy. It’s just so cut and dried that it winds people (like me) up that a crime thats so obvious is dragged on forever and a day. I do feel like there are more ulterior motives with this particular delay though. It isn’t a delay. Even if we ignore the fact there has to be an investigation into the behaviour of the police before concluding matters with the assailants, it takes on average 83 weeks from crime to the end of a crown court trial in Manchester. So there is absolutely no delay here. I would suggest the fact there is a police complaint and it is high profile if anything slows down the investigation beyond the average time. They cannot screw this up and they need to bring justice. |
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Post by Dave the Rave on Nov 17, 2024 21:44:48 GMT
Ok there are slight nuances with our opinions, as usual😉 but I appreciate the reasoned reply oggy. It’s just so cut and dried that it winds people (like me) up that a crime thats so obvious is dragged on forever and a day. I do feel like there are more ulterior motives with this particular delay though. It isn’t a delay. Even if we ignore the fact there has to be an investigation into the behaviour of the police before concluding matters with the assailants, it takes on average 83 weeks from crime to the end of a crown court trial in Manchester. So there is absolutely no delay here. I would suggest the fact there is a police complaint and it is high profile if anything slows down the investigation beyond the average time. They cannot screw this up and they need to bring justice. I don't know how you have the strength to keep explaining this stuff. |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 18, 2024 19:47:46 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 18, 2024 20:04:33 GMT
It's been 14 minutes since you posted this and they are yet to be locked up. What the fuck are Reform playing at?! If they had thrown a milkshake at Farage I bet Reform would have assassinated them by now. |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 18, 2024 20:39:06 GMT
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 18, 2024 20:55:43 GMT
It isn’t a delay. Even if we ignore the fact there has to be an investigation into the behaviour of the police before concluding matters with the assailants, it takes on average 83 weeks from crime to the end of a crown court trial in Manchester. So there is absolutely no delay here. I would suggest the fact there is a police complaint and it is high profile if anything slows down the investigation beyond the average time. They cannot screw this up and they need to bring justice. I don't know how you have the strength to keep explaining this stuff. God life’s tough  |
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