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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 10, 2024 9:45:34 GMT
But it's really not hyperbolic nonsense is it? That's the point. To quote the left leaning Sky News this morning. "The French will use the Olympics to celebrate their contribution to civilisation - the way they believe they have led the world in culture and freedom-loving politics since the Enlightenment. Behind that impressive Olympic veneer, however, the country is being torn apart by deepening polarisation and political crisis. De Gaulle's Fifth Republic has rarely been so severely tested. France has seldom seemed so worn out politically, whatever the multi-million euro illusion being conjured in the City of Light. Disenchantment with the status quo is strengthening the forces of extremism. The country's president believed the antidote would be a snap election. The outcome appears to be yet more chaos and division". Anyway, I'll leave you with that and indeed, let's hope France avoids severe unrest. Excellent, we got there in the end. It's not "up in flames" and we agree that the avoidance of severe unrest is the best outcome. OK, happy to rephrase to France being in a state of "chaos, division and political crisis" as per above.
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Post by foster on Jul 10, 2024 10:05:33 GMT
More hyperbolic nonsense! If anything the reaction to the election result has been pleasingly restrained, much to your disappointment, no doubt. Up in flames France most certainly isn't. And I'm sure the EU isn't overly concerned either way. Even Le Pen has dropped her Frexit position (probably as a result of seeing the shit the UK landed itself in). You sound as though you're desperate for violence to kick off, just to prove a point. Happy to revisit your post over the next 12 months as and when the chaos unfolds. "Hyperbole" is a big word for you isn't it. Do you genuinely believe France is in a good place right now and that we aren't going to see violent protesting over these coming months? Look at the state of their parliament! There is going to be absolute carnage when it comes to decision making. Keep it up Rossi mate. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 10, 2024 10:09:00 GMT
Haven't been following the news in France since the election results were published, so glad to have it cleared up that the reaction of the French public was to metaphorically set the country on fire at some point over the next 12 months.
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Post by lordb on Jul 10, 2024 11:27:37 GMT
Excellent, we got there in the end. It's not "up in flames" and we agree that the avoidance of severe unrest is the best outcome. OK, happy to rephrase to France being in a state of "chaos, division and political crisis" as per above. 'left leaning Sky news' Being left of Reform isn't 'left leaning'
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Post by str8outtahampton on Jul 10, 2024 12:28:13 GMT
OK, happy to rephrase to France being in a state of "chaos, division and political crisis" as per above. 'left leaning Sky news' Being left of Reform isn't 'left leaning' Haven't you heard, your Lordship? The entire main stream media is run by (and is in thrall to) the tofu-munching, woke, snowflake, champagne-quaffing, leftwaffe.
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Post by Veritas on Jul 10, 2024 12:37:49 GMT
'left leaning Sky news' Being left of Reform isn't 'left leaning' Haven't you heard, your Lordship? The entire main stream media is run by (and is in thrall to) the tofu-munching, woke, snowflake, champagne-quaffing, leftwaffe. The Daily Mail in particular being awash with them.
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Post by gawa on Aug 26, 2024 21:54:16 GMT
A fascinating thread on what looks to be a coup unfolding in France. The election was nearly 2 months ago with NPF winning and Macron has still not nominated the prime minister in waiting.
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Post by wannabee on Aug 26, 2024 22:28:50 GMT
A fascinating thread on what looks to be a coup unfolding in France. The election was nearly 2 months ago with NPF winning and Macron has still not nominated the prime minister in waiting. Could you explain how a coalition of 4 parties that gained less than a third of the seats in the Assemblée "won the Election" In any case it was discussed yesterday in "France" thread so I'll not repeat myself
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Post by gawa on Aug 26, 2024 23:55:51 GMT
A fascinating thread on what looks to be a coup unfolding in France. The election was nearly 2 months ago with NPF winning and Macron has still not nominated the prime minister in waiting. Could you explain how a coalition of 4 parties that gained less than a third of the seats in the Assemblée "won the Election" In any case it was discussed yesterday in "France" thread so I'll not repeat myself Dramatic affect. It will be interesting to see what Macron does. He seems to dislike LFI even more than Le Pen. If NFP stay united then it could end up being quite the hypocrisy given the election was to stop the "far right". Mind you calling a snap election after their success in the European elections was mind blowing itself. Will centrism enable a push to the right again?;
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Post by wannabee on Aug 27, 2024 1:11:16 GMT
Could you explain how a coalition of 4 parties that gained less than a third of the seats in the Assemblée "won the Election" In any case it was discussed yesterday in "France" thread so I'll not repeat myself Dramatic affect. It will be interesting to see what Macron does. He seems to dislike LFI even more than Le Pen. If NFP stay united then it could end up being quite the hypocrisy given the election was to stop the "far right". Mind you calling a snap election after their success in the European elections was mind blowing itself. Will centrism enable a push to the right again?; I can understand your reluctance to answer a straightforward question It's absurd to suggest Macron would favour a Le Pen nominated RN Candidate over a Mélenchon nominated LFI Candidate although the former gained almost twice as many seats, its just not going to happen. Macrons own Party Renaissance won far more seats than LFI but one of their nominees isn't going to be PM either. Inevitably the next Prime Minister of France will come from the NFP Block and Mélenchon has nominated Lucie Castets from LFI but if I were betting I wouldn't rule out Karim Bouamrane of the Socialist Party, but not with any great confidence.
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Post by gawa on Sept 6, 2024 0:21:02 GMT
So when I talk about "centrists enabling the far right". Here we have an example.
Snap election called.
The left wing alliance - 180 seats Macrons centrists - 159 seats Le Pens Far Right - 142 seats Michel Barnier's right wing - 39 seats
Of course a coalition between Macron and Le Pen would make this fact very hard to deny. So Michel Barnier with his 39 seats is the puppet prime minister from the right wing.
Macron would rather support a right wing prime minister with far right approval (and little to no mandate from the public) than see a left wing government.
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Post by gawa on Sept 6, 2024 0:28:21 GMT
Dramatic affect. It will be interesting to see what Macron does. He seems to dislike LFI even more than Le Pen. If NFP stay united then it could end up being quite the hypocrisy given the election was to stop the "far right". Mind you calling a snap election after their success in the European elections was mind blowing itself. Will centrism enable a push to the right again?; I can understand your reluctance to answer a straightforward question It's absurd to suggest Macron would favour a Le Pen nominated RN Candidate over a Mélenchon nominated LFI Candidate although the former gained almost twice as many seats, its just not going to happen. Macrons own Party Renaissance won far more seats than LFI but one of their nominees isn't going to be PM either. Inevitably the next Prime Minister of France will come from the NFP Block and Mélenchon has nominated Lucie Castets from LFI but if I were betting I wouldn't rule out Karim Bouamrane of the Socialist Party, but not with any great confidence. "It's absurd to suggest Macron would favour a Le Pen nominated RN Candidate over a Mélenchon nominated LFI Candidate" Not absurd at all. He's made concessions with the far right to elect a right wing prime minister with little to no mandate.* And to answer my own original question. Yes. It seems that centrism is enabling a push to the right again. *Now I predict you may respond "this isn't a National Rally candidate" Well I never said anything about National Rally candidates to begin with. I said I think he dislikes LFI more than Le Pen and he may look a hypocrite given the election was to "stop the far right". If what is reported comes into practice then by voting for a far right approved, right wing prime minister, I'd argue Macron is indeed enabling the far right rather than stopping them. And on the above it most certainly isn't absurd if one was to believe Macron would pick a National Rally PM over a LFI one.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Sept 6, 2024 7:07:09 GMT
So when I talk about "centrists enabling the far right". Here we have an example. Snap election called. The left wing alliance - 180 seats Macrons centrists - 159 seats Le Pens Far Right - 142 seats Michel Barnier's right wing - 39 seats Of course a coalition between Macron and Le Pen would make this fact very hard to deny. So Michel Barnier with his 39 seats is the puppet prime minister from the right wing. Macron would rather support a right wing prime minister with far right approval (and little to no mandate from the public) than see a left wing government. For the second round, didn't Macron basically call for people to support the far left choice over the far right with some kind of tactical voting? Also, aren't Le Pen's economic policies fairly left wing? How accurate is the far right label? Right on social issues and left on economic seems to be a popular mix at the moment. Don't know much about France though so feel free to correct!
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Post by wannabee on Sept 6, 2024 7:42:33 GMT
I can understand your reluctance to answer a straightforward question It's absurd to suggest Macron would favour a Le Pen nominated RN Candidate over a Mélenchon nominated LFI Candidate although the former gained almost twice as many seats, its just not going to happen. Macrons own Party Renaissance won far more seats than LFI but one of their nominees isn't going to be PM either. Inevitably the next Prime Minister of France will come from the NFP Block and Mélenchon has nominated Lucie Castets from LFI but if I were betting I wouldn't rule out Karim Bouamrane of the Socialist Party, but not with any great confidence. "It's absurd to suggest Macron would favour a Le Pen nominated RN Candidate over a Mélenchon nominated LFI Candidate" Not absurd at all. He's made concessions with the far right to elect a right wing prime minister with little to no mandate.* And to answer my own original question. Yes. It seems that centrism is enabling a push to the right again. *Now I predict you may respond "this isn't a National Rally candidate" Well I never said anything about National Rally candidates to begin with. I said I think he dislikes LFI more than Le Pen and he may look a hypocrite given the election was to "stop the far right". If what is reported comes into practice then by voting for a far right approved, right wing prime minister, I'd argue Macron is indeed enabling the far right rather than stopping them. And on the above it most certainly isn't absurd if one was to believe Macron would pick a National Rally PM over a LFI one. Not very good at c+p so bear with me Jul 1, 2024 at 12:56pm gawa said: All feels a bit overstated to me and as if it's being used by the media to try and capture people's attention and make it into a bigger thing that it is. The Republicans did a pact at the 2022 election forming the union of the right and centre. In the first round National Rally/Union of right and centre got around 30% of the vote which then translated to 25% in the second round. Now National Rally have allied with The Republicans and formed union of the far right. And between them they won around 33% of the first round vote*. Is it really this mammoth surge? * Republicans have also won 6% of vote for candidates which I believe aren't endorsed by National Rally.(i think?) Interesting to see Essemble (Macrons pact) is trying to ally with the National Rally in seats on the second round to keep the left out by suggesting they stand down candidates. Typical centrists always enabling the far right. I agree it is overstated but it's certainly unclear Ipsos after 1st Round put NR at between 230/280 of the required 289 seats This was my reply to you Republicans or LR didn't oppose the Centre and Left Coalition but were not part of Government in 2022 There has been a Minority Government in France since NR on their own increased their First Round Vote Share from 19% to 33% which is impressive LR retained the same % as 2022 at 10%. Prior to Election their Leader proposed an Alliance with NR, he was fired the next day and he joined NR as did some others from LR Ensemble are most definitely not contemplating a voting pact with NR. Some in Ensemble members have voiced concerns due to Anti-semitic remarks made by LFI leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon. Mélenchon said straight after First Round result he would stand down any of his Candidates that finished 3rd to ensure the NFP Alliance prevails over NR You then replied Yeah I think I got the Ensemble thing wrong. I'll have to try and identify the reference to it, may have been on their Wikipedia. But when I googled it after posting I seen more news sources suggesting it was pacts to keep the far right out The following day and 5 days before the second round vote I said this My uneducated guess is that neither Centre/Left or Far Right will gain a majority and the Centre Right LR will back neither. A compromise PM will be found which is fairly academic as Macron has Executive Power and will be around for another three years So if you follow the sequence from 2022 to now In 2022 Macrons Ensemble (Centre) and Left Coalition had the most seats but not a Majority. The Centre Right Republicans LR held the balance of power and didn't oppose Macrons nominee for PM therefore Macron did need the support of the Far Left Now in 2025 Macrons Ensemble again have the most but a reduced number of seats. Macron has the sole discretion on who he appoints as PM but they must gain a Majority in the Assemblée. It was obvious Macron didn't want a Far Right RN or Far Left LFI PM, my last post on here I thought he might go for a Centre Left Socialist Bouamrane on the parallel "France" thread i said a couple of times he might go for a Bureaucrat but has gone for Barnier. Barrier is Gaulist Neoliberal and the epitome of a Bureaucrat It probably wasn't a smart move for Macron to call an Election but all it has resulted in is that Republicans LR are now part of Government rather than just supporting Government and Government is concentrated around the dominant Centre Ensemble.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 6, 2024 9:42:51 GMT
Having read all that I think the yellow coats will be on the streets as soon as the paralypians leave Paris.
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Post by musik on Sept 6, 2024 9:56:52 GMT
Alternative for France ?
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Post by gawa on Sept 6, 2024 12:44:49 GMT
So when I talk about "centrists enabling the far right". Here we have an example. Snap election called. The left wing alliance - 180 seats Macrons centrists - 159 seats Le Pens Far Right - 142 seats Michel Barnier's right wing - 39 seats Of course a coalition between Macron and Le Pen would make this fact very hard to deny. So Michel Barnier with his 39 seats is the puppet prime minister from the right wing. Macron would rather support a right wing prime minister with far right approval (and little to no mandate from the public) than see a left wing government. For the second round, didn't Macron basically call for people to support the far left choice over the far right with some kind of tactical voting? Also, aren't Le Pen's economic policies fairly left wing? How accurate is the far right label? Right on social issues and left on economic seems to be a popular mix at the moment. Don't know much about France though so feel free to correct! It was implied that this would happen and in some cases pacts were made but a number of candidates from Macrons party refused to stand down especially when a LFI candidate has a chance to win. National Rally (Le Pens team) on the other hand went into a coalition with Le Republicans (party of new prime minister) from before the first vote count. They collaborated under the title "Union of the Far right/On The Right" and continued the same coalition through to the second round of voting. The whole "stop the far right" is just pantomime. Macron, like most centrists, will always concede to their wishes because they're very much part of the establishment and the further right we go, the happier the establishment are. Everything else is theatre to make people believe they're opposed to it. When push came to shove they've elected a Prime Minister with no mandate from a party which collaborated with Le Pen. George Galloways workers party is an example of left on economy and right on social issues. I don't know enough about Le Pens economic policies to say where she stands on it. Happy to be proven wrong though if there is evidence to suggest she's left wing on economy. I don't get why so many people get upset with a "far right" label either. It's simply a measure used to compare the political demographics between parties. If you're slightly right of Macron you're like Le Republicans, if you're further right you're like National Rally. If you're slightly to the left you may be compared to the socialist party. And if you're further left than that you have LFI in France. Who regularly get labeled as "far left". Those in the media most upset about the label are the same who have spent 5 years calling others far left, communists, woke, snowflakes and every other trope they could come up with. If you can't take it... don't dish it out. But anyway my point very much is that actions always speak louder than words. It's not about what they shut from the rooftops and print over the front pages of the newspapers - it's about what they do. And now Macron has shown himself for what I've been calling him for a number of weeks. When push comes to shove he will always concede to the far right. The proof is in the pudding. NFP have enough MPs alongside Macrons party to in Macrons words "stop the far right". Instead Macron has picked the PM from The Republicans who had a large number of candidates enter the election in coalition with what Macron calls "the far right". If he wanted to stop them like the theatrics try to make you believe then he can do very easily. The fact he isn't shows him for what he, and most other centrists are, enablers and a mechanism to move politics further to the right. The same will and is happening under Starner. Winter Fuel allowances are socialist policies. Two child benefit caps are conservative policies. He's scrapped the fuel allowance and kept the child benefit cap while removing the whip from MPs who dare go against that. Of course though you can argue against that. The language used to describe protestors and the prison sentences too which are excessive. The thing is though these people are just low tier cannon fodder to help cement the image the media want. Starmer the communist 🤣. We've had 14 years of right wing tory austerity. We have another 5+ years of centre right labour austerity coming. If they don't pick up the low hanging fruits to present Starmer as the communist then they run the risk of people recognising that we've had 2 decades of right wing austerity where everyone has got worse off. So presenting Starmer as the communist and having him be tough on working class right wing (the cannon fodder) does that. And come next election it will be between Starmer and Farage. And we can follow France with "ohh got to stop the big scary far right" but just like Macron has... if it was a choice between a coalition which has a corbyn, galloway or Deyner versus a coalition with Farage, Anderson or Braverman. Starmer will choose the latter every time. Most startling however are the "highly educated" liberals who tend to fall for the same tricks time and time again and justify, reason and make excuses for their actions. I believe they call the phenomenon "motivated reasoning".
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Post by wannabee on Sept 6, 2024 13:57:54 GMT
For the second round, didn't Macron basically call for people to support the far left choice over the far right with some kind of tactical voting? Also, aren't Le Pen's economic policies fairly left wing? How accurate is the far right label? Right on social issues and left on economic seems to be a popular mix at the moment. Don't know much about France though so feel free to correct! National Rally (Le Pens team) on the other hand went into a coalition with Le Republicans (party of new prime minister) from before the first vote count. They collaborated under the title "Union of the Far right/On The Right" and continued the same coalition through to the second round of voting. This is complete rubbish The former Republicans LR Leader Eric Ciotti announced in mid June after secret negotiations with RN that LR would form a pact/alliance with RN Le Pens Party in the upcoming Election The problem for Ciotti was that he had gone on a solo run and not consulted with the LR Party Members who promptly sacked him as Leader and he was replaced by Olivier Marleix on 28th June 2024 prior to the Election. LR had no Election pact before the first or second vote with any other Party Ciotti having been sacked from LR for breaking a long standing policy of cordon sanitaire (don't work with extremists) formed his own Party Union of the Far-Right UXD who did form an election pact with RN they won 17 Seats including Ciotti some not all were previous LR members. Michel Barnier is a member of Republicans LR Party but has been outside mainstream French Politics for the last 3 years since his unsuccessful bid to become President. His appointment as PM is seen as a compromise candidate an elder Statesman if you wish as he becomes the oldest French President at 73 of the 5th Republic and has no future Political ambitions.
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