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Post by Gods on Jul 7, 2024 22:40:31 GMT
Does this mean migrants will stopping crossing the channel then😊👍 You ask a good question. I think the French policy will remain 'anyone who leaves France for England on a boat becomes England's problem not ours. So let's wave off as many boats as possible 👋
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Post by gawa on Jul 7, 2024 22:48:52 GMT
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Post by musik on Jul 7, 2024 22:57:18 GMT
The French Corbyn. But reading this thread you'd think it was Macron. Bit weird seeing labour supporters celebrating it given Jean-Luc Mélenchon is everything starmers labour stands against. Does it mean Marine Le Pen Party didn't win then, even though when I said they wouldn't someone replied what news do you follow, the Daily Mail?🙃 Many people in France vote on Election Day (Sunday) (just like myself), and therefore the result could go either way. Just saw it here now half an hour after midnight, NFP won, on the Swe text tv news. NFP (Left) 172 to 192. Macron 150 to 170. Le Pen 132 to 152. Has the accusations started yet?? Fake votes and all that! 🤠
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Post by gawa on Jul 7, 2024 23:02:40 GMT
The French Corbyn. But reading this thread you'd think it was Macron. Bit weird seeing labour supporters celebrating it given Jean-Luc Mélenchon is everything starmers labour stands against. Does it mean Marine Le Pen Party didn't win then, even though when I said they wouldn't someone replied what news do you follow, the Daily Mail?🙃 Many people in France vote on Election Day (Sunday) (just like myself), and therefore the result could go either way. Just saw it here now half an hour after midnight, NFP won, on the Swe text tv news. NFP (Left) 172 to 192. Macron 150 to 170. Le Pen 132 to 152. Has the accusations started yet?? Fake votes and all that! 🤠 Agreed I said the same last week that our British media were massively overstating the "rise of the far right" and that it was clear they wouldn't win. Not heard calls of fake votes but I don't read French news so only know what I've seen on social media.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 8, 2024 6:41:43 GMT
Mélenchon is more left wing than Corbyn.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 8, 2024 7:15:58 GMT
Kudos to Macron. Literally everyone thought he was mad, and he has massively humbled the right wing in France. He was always going to lose his majority, but he has put down a firm marker to Le Pen to show she is going to find it very hard to win the Presidency. This is the real point. Le Pen was setting up her bid for Presidency which is where the real power resides. Macron can't run again so I'd expect a Left Wing and a Centrist Candidate to go up against Le Pen. She might win on the first count but it's been proved she can be defeated by those who oppose her style of Politics Doesn't mean that in the meantime legitimate concerns people may have shouldn't be addressed
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 8, 2024 7:31:04 GMT
Mélenchon is more left wing than Corbyn. Corbyn is as far left as humanely possible, the Daily Mail told me…..
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 8, 2024 7:39:37 GMT
Poor old Bianco, looks like those exciting times got a little less exciting.
Still, Trump coming back to look forward to I guess...😁
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 8, 2024 7:50:01 GMT
The British Liberal media today “Viva la France, the left have saved democracy!!”
The British Liberal media in 2017 “Magic Grandpa is promising free unicorns to the electorate. Now is simply not the right time for a left wing government”
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 8, 2024 7:54:10 GMT
The British Liberal media today “Viva la France, the left have saved democracy!!” The British Liberal media in 2017 “Magic Grandpa is promising feee unicorns to the electorate. Now is simply not the right time for a left wing government” Did the Liberal media say that? The Tory client press I can well believe but the Liberal media?
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Post by wannabee on Jul 8, 2024 7:54:50 GMT
Does it mean Marine Le Pen Party didn't win then, even though when I said they wouldn't someone replied what news do you follow, the Daily Mail?🙃 Many people in France vote on Election Day (Sunday) (just like myself), and therefore the result could go either way. Just saw it here now half an hour after midnight, NFP won, on the Swe text tv news. NFP (Left) 172 to 192. Macron 150 to 170. Le Pen 132 to 152. Has the accusations started yet?? Fake votes and all that! 🤠 Agreed I said the same last week that our British media were massively overstating the "rise of the far right" and that it was clear they wouldn't win. Not heard calls of fake votes but I don't read French news so only know what I've seen on social media. Not everyone was wetting their knickers after the Round 1 Vote and I said exactly that on Page 1 The usual suspects were of course claiming a "lurch" to the Right It was almost inevitable neither Left, Right or Centre would gain a majority
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 8, 2024 8:28:04 GMT
The British Liberal media today “Viva la France, the left have saved democracy!!” The British Liberal media in 2017 “Magic Grandpa is promising free unicorns to the electorate. Now is simply not the right time for a left wing government” Did the Liberal media say that? The Tory client press I can well believe but the Liberal media? I mean I was paraphrasing, but yeah the likes of the Guardian (not a left wing paper) were as bad as any during the Corbyn period......
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 8, 2024 9:29:53 GMT
As the results are now official, I'm opening my book on who the far-right will blame for their failure to win the election:
The Establishment 4/11 Woke people 5/4 Transgender people 5/2 The EU 3/1 The media 4/1 Joe Biden 9/2 The weather 5/1 ECHR 5/1 The electorate 19/2 Keir Starmer 33/1 Kylian Mbappe 66/1 The moon 250/1 Tony Dorigo 500/1 The far-right themselves 1000/1
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 8, 2024 9:48:00 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 8, 2024 10:11:16 GMT
This is a warning to those that oppose FPTP. news.sky.com/story/france-elections-latest-far-right-national-rally-hoping-to-win-majority-as-second-round-vote-sees-huge-rise-in-turnout-13173764You can end up in a right muddle as politicians start wheeling and dealing as to who gets power, which job, what policy is adopted, etc. Italy has had 69 governments since the war, that's just over 1 per year. When the UK has had governments without a majority then undue bias is given to a minor party like the DUP. May's post election government was impotent and resulted in Johnson. In France power rests largely with the President. Macron only got 30% of the first round vote in the Presidential elections, but 100% of the power in the end for a fixed term; he cannot be removed. Furthermore he has power to overrule the National Assembly. All the trappings of President, security, public duties etc cost almost as much as our royalty. We have just elected a stable government, but if Starmer messes up the way recent Tory PMs have his party will replace him. If the new government messes up, we can throw them out and get a completely fresh government. (I hope they don't because we could get Farage!) Our unwritten constitution with a constitutional monarchy is best. It can be improved no doubt, but only incrementally as times change., the way it has been since Oliver Cromwell. Sweeping change would be disastrous.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 8, 2024 10:17:46 GMT
Mélenchon is more left wing than Corbyn. Corbyn is as far left as humanely possible, the Daily Mail told me….. every single day for the last 9 years!!!
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 8, 2024 10:20:15 GMT
This is a warning to those that oppose FPTP. news.sky.com/story/france-elections-latest-far-right-national-rally-hoping-to-win-majority-as-second-round-vote-sees-huge-rise-in-turnout-13173764You can end up in a right muddle as politicians start wheeling and dealing as to who gets power, which job, what policy is adopted, etc. Italy has had 69 governments since the war, that's just over 1 per year. When the UK has had governments without a majority then undue bias is given to a minor party like the DUP. May's post election government was impotent and resulted in Johnson. In France power rests largely with the President. Macron only got 30% of the first round vote in the Presidential elections, but 100% of the power in the end for a fixed term; he cannot be removed. Furthermore he has power to overrule the National Assembly. All the trappings of President, security, public duties etc cost almost as much as our royalty. We have just elected a stable government, but if Starmer messes up the way recent Tory PMs have his party will replace him. If the new government messes up, we can throw them out and get a completely fresh government. (I hope they don't because we could get Farage!) Our unwritten constitution with a constitutional monarchy is best. It can be improved no doubt, but only incrementally as times change., the way it has been since Oliver Cromwell. Sweeping change would be disastrous. It really is. FPTP is really dysfunctional and frustrating at times but a lot of PR alternatives can be disastrous for any kind of coherent national Government. Be careful what you wish for.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 8, 2024 10:29:16 GMT
This is a warning to those that oppose FPTP. news.sky.com/story/france-elections-latest-far-right-national-rally-hoping-to-win-majority-as-second-round-vote-sees-huge-rise-in-turnout-13173764You can end up in a right muddle as politicians start wheeling and dealing as to who gets power, which job, what policy is adopted, etc. Italy has had 69 governments since the war, that's just over 1 per year. When the UK has had governments without a majority then undue bias is given to a minor party like the DUP. May's post election government was impotent and resulted in Johnson. In France power rests largely with the President. Macron only got 30% of the first round vote in the Presidential elections, but 100% of the power in the end for a fixed term; he cannot be removed. Furthermore he has power to overrule the National Assembly. All the trappings of President, security, public duties etc cost almost as much as our royalty. We have just elected a stable government, but if Starmer messes up the way recent Tory PMs have his party will replace him. If the new government messes up, we can throw them out and get a completely fresh government. (I hope they don't because we could get Farage!) Our unwritten constitution with a constitutional monarchy is best. It can be improved no doubt, but only incrementally as times change., the way it has been since Oliver Cromwell. Sweeping change would be disastrous. It really is. FPTP is really dysfunctional and frustrating at times but a lot of PR alternatives can be disastrous for any kind of coherent national Government. Be careful what you wish for. I would want the New Zealand mixed member proportional electoral system or something close to it, as you say just thinking PR is the answer is dangerous, as far as I'm concerned there are many versions of PR that complicate things to the point of bringing things to a standstill......
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 8, 2024 10:30:16 GMT
This is a warning to those that oppose FPTP. news.sky.com/story/france-elections-latest-far-right-national-rally-hoping-to-win-majority-as-second-round-vote-sees-huge-rise-in-turnout-13173764You can end up in a right muddle as politicians start wheeling and dealing as to who gets power, which job, what policy is adopted, etc. Italy has had 69 governments since the war, that's just over 1 per year. When the UK has had governments without a majority then undue bias is given to a minor party like the DUP. May's post election government was impotent and resulted in Johnson. In France power rests largely with the President. Macron only got 30% of the first round vote in the Presidential elections, but 100% of the power in the end for a fixed term; he cannot be removed. Furthermore he has power to overrule the National Assembly. All the trappings of President, security, public duties etc cost almost as much as our royalty. We have just elected a stable government, but if Starmer messes up the way recent Tory PMs have his party will replace him. If the new government messes up, we can throw them out and get a completely fresh government. (I hope they don't because we could get Farage!) Our unwritten constitution with a constitutional monarchy is best. It can be improved no doubt, but only incrementally as times change., the way it has been since Oliver Cromwell. Sweeping change would be disastrous. Good post. I still prefer a single transferable vote overall. But no system is perfect. I think it is better to have a party that the majority don’t mind in power (how Macron got in the second time) rather than a party that the majority really oppose, but who may have the largest minority supporting them (as with Le Pen in France).
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Post by gawa on Jul 8, 2024 10:37:36 GMT
How refreshing.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 8, 2024 11:47:11 GMT
It's not weird if you think the main feeling is relief at not seeing the decidedly unpleasant far right take control of parliament. More that rather than a celebration of who "won". No-one really did. But Le Pen lost. Which everyone should be pleased about. Unless you're a massive racist, of course.
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Post by gawa on Jul 8, 2024 12:00:55 GMT
It's not weird if you think the main feeling is relief at not seeing the decidedly unpleasant far right take control of parliament. More that rather than a celebration of who "won". No-one really did. But Le Pen lost. Which everyone should be pleased about. Unless you're a massive racist, of course. That's centrisn. Voting against a party and celebrating the lesser of two evils. Centrists should be disappointed given their French equivalent is on a downwards spiral and lost more seats again.
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Post by Davef on Jul 8, 2024 12:05:50 GMT
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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2024 12:17:39 GMT
Would you say Starmer would be more or less elite if his father was a stockbroker (Farage), a politician (Le Pen) or a billionaire property developer (Trump)? The same Absolute bullshit of the highest order
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 8, 2024 12:28:16 GMT
As the results are now official, I'm opening my book on who the far-right will blame for their failure to win the election: The Establishment 4/11 Woke people 5/4 Transgender people 5/2 The EU 3/1 The media 4/1 Joe Biden 9/2 The weather 5/1 ECHR 5/1 The electorate 19/2 Keir Starmer 33/1 Kylian Mbappe 66/1 The moon 250/1 Tony Dorigo 500/1 The far-right themselves 1000/1 Dave Kitson?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 8, 2024 12:33:24 GMT
Absolute bullshit of the highest order Thanks😫
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 8, 2024 12:34:03 GMT
This is a warning to those that oppose FPTP. news.sky.com/story/france-elections-latest-far-right-national-rally-hoping-to-win-majority-as-second-round-vote-sees-huge-rise-in-turnout-13173764You can end up in a right muddle as politicians start wheeling and dealing as to who gets power, which job, what policy is adopted, etc. Italy has had 69 governments since the war, that's just over 1 per year. When the UK has had governments without a majority then undue bias is given to a minor party like the DUP. May's post election government was impotent and resulted in Johnson. In France power rests largely with the President. Macron only got 30% of the first round vote in the Presidential elections, but 100% of the power in the end for a fixed term; he cannot be removed. Furthermore he has power to overrule the National Assembly. All the trappings of President, security, public duties etc cost almost as much as our royalty. We have just elected a stable government, but if Starmer messes up the way recent Tory PMs have his party will replace him. If the new government messes up, we can throw them out and get a completely fresh government. (I hope they don't because we could get Farage!) Our unwritten constitution with a constitutional monarchy is best. It can be improved no doubt, but only incrementally as times change., the way it has been since Oliver Cromwell. Sweeping change would be disastrous. Good old Coke, never knowingly not disingenuous! How many governments has PR-embracing Germany had since the war? How come you focused purely on Italy? I mean, its rhetorical, obviously, this is precisely what you keep doing on the Brexit thread, so no need to answer "All the trappings of President, security, public duties etc cost almost as much as our royalty." Fine. Let's do away with royalty and have a president if it costs less. "Sweeping change would be disastrous." Agreed. See Brexit for details.
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Post by tuum on Jul 8, 2024 13:15:11 GMT
Regarding PR in the UK. What is the Liberals position these days? I think Farage is on record 1-2 days ago saying he will work with anyone who wants to pursue the PR aim. It will be interesting to see the Liberal reaction given that they have just done very well under the FPTP system. Surely they will stand squarely behind their PR principles rather than taking a strategic, political position.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 8, 2024 13:29:03 GMT
Regarding PR in the UK. What is the Liberals position these days? I think Farage is on record 1-2 days ago saying he will work with anyone who wants to pursue the PR aim. It will be interesting to see the Liberal reaction given that they have just done very well under the FPTP system. Surely they will stand squarely behind their PR principles rather than taking a strategic, political position. Vince Cable was on Channel 4 on election night and he said something like: "We don't like FPTP and it is still party policy to change to PR, but for now the election is in FPTP so we have learned to campaign within this system for the best results."
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 8, 2024 13:34:08 GMT
Regarding PR in the UK. What is the Liberals position these days? I think Farage is on record 1-2 days ago saying he will work with anyone who wants to pursue the PR aim. It will be interesting to see the Liberal reaction given that they have just done very well under the FPTP system. Surely they will stand squarely behind their PR principles rather than taking a strategic, political position. The Green-Reform coalition will be interesting then.
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