|
Post by Northy on Apr 17, 2021 7:03:48 GMT
Should be used for freight to get all those lorries off the roads, and have local freight terminals along the route
One of my sons has been doing a lot of work on it these past 2 years so at least he's got work out of it.
|
|
|
Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 17, 2021 7:43:43 GMT
I would argue that a decent road/rail infrastructure is badly needed down here in the south west. Road wise we currently have three main arterial routes to Devon and Cornwall; the A38 that connects the end of the M5 at Exeter to Bodmin via the southern route of Plymouth and Saltash. The more northern route connects the M5 from Exeter to Lands End via Launceston and Bodmin. The A380 connects Exeter to Torbay via the A38.There are no motorway past Exeter only single lane and dualled A roads. An accident or any form of road restriction on any of the routes cuts off the towns and cities further on plus the sheer volume of traffic in the summer is balls-aching for local people but it is endured because of the business for tourism. There are currently dialling schemes on all the 3 routes but this tends to just move bottlenecks further on. As for railway links it’s a joke with just one main route from Bristol to Penzance via Newton Abbot, Totnes, Plymouth with branch lines serving some of the coastal towns. When the line was damaged at Dawlish in severe storms few years ago Devon and Cornwall were completely cut off and had to rely on road network for many months. Plus trains from Plymouth to Penzance are speed restricted, although it takes 3 hours to travel 215 miles from London to Plymouth it then takes almost 2 hours to travel 77 miles to Penzance. Local al MPs have lobbied transport secretary in HoC to try and get more investment to re-route the line inland and improve road infrastructure to no avail. HS2 for us down here is meaningless.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Apr 17, 2021 8:07:27 GMT
The case for HS2. SInce the 1980s there has been a dramatic rise in rail travel: www.statista.com/statistics/304957/total-historical-national-rail-passenger-journeys-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/From the beginning of this century, despite continued investment much of the rail network has reached saturation point. On the east coast line for example it is not practicable to make any new connections to the main line as it is fully utilised. I was lucky in circa 2002 to start moving product from Co. Durham to South Wales by rail because the works had an existing connection that was being utilised for traffic to the east coast. Had that not been the case we would have continued to move product by road. Passenger loading is massive, people not having seats at peak time. I have had to stand from Kings Cross to York in the past. Trains can be made longer but are limited by infrastructure such as platforms. Looking forward decades the UK needs to double its rail infrastructure not just to meet future rail passenger demand, but to reduce road traffic. I appreciate HS2 is damaging nature during construction, road traffic pollution is killing the planet and a great many people in urban localities. Electric cars and gas lorries will replace the internal combustion engine in time, but even these will motivate people to "take the train" (an advert that long ceased to be necessary as trains are full!). It is not a question of knocking 30 minutes off travel time. We cannot keep increasing our roads for ever. Many parts of the motorways are 5 or more lanes and at a stand still for hours a week. The A1M has driven huge tracts of motorway through countryside of Yorkshire and Durham in the last two decades, just like HS2, but far more polluting when it is finished. Northallerton is a continuous traffic jamb due to level crossings in the town being shut every 10 minutes. I dread to think what the air quality standards in Northallerton are. In summary we cannot keep giving way and pandering to road traffic. We have to rebuild the Victorian rail network. The alternative is passports to travel in our own country which is silly. The routes from London to Manchester and Leeds are the start and aimed at taking load of the historic east and west rail routes north. Firstly I would agree that we cannot keep pandering to road traffic if we are going to address the environmental issues that face us all but would seriously question how HS2 contributes to that. The average car journey in the UK is just 9.4 miles - so most road journeys are short. The continuous traffic jams you refer to are not people commuting from the centre of London to Manchester, but people commuting from places like Reading to London, Tamworth to Coventry or Sandbach to Worsley and using stretches of the M4/M42/M6 to do so. In fact if you build a road to mirror HS2 (ie start central London, Finish Picadilly Manchester and the only other places you could get on or off were Birmingham or Crewe) the I wouldn't be surprised if a dual carriageway would be more than enough to cope.And whilst demand for rail journeys has increased over the past couple of decades, this too has largely been for short distance commuting. In fact the D0T's own figures show that the West Coast mainline runs on average at only 32% capacity. Overlay this with the fact that many of the punters who would use HS2 (and certainly at it's likely price point) are not the type of commuters travelling to factories or call centres but business people travelling for meetings - then post pandemic the likely increased use of Zoom (other virtual meeting software is available) means the case for HS2 all but evaporates. In fact the ONLY case for it appears to be "we've started so we'll finish" HS2 is not scheduled to be complete until 2040 (and it will no doubt be late, overbudget and subject to a public enquiry) so for HS2 to therefore be a "start" is simply to late. If we want to tackle these issues the factors like better/greener town planning, aggressive carbon taxing at both corporate and personal level (with generous subsidies and incentives in the opposite direction), working towards shorter supply chains and genuine international co-operation would make much more difference far sooner than this white elephant vanity project. I think you make a lot of valid points but I think you are missing two points in the article. 1. The objective is to separate local rail traffic from long distance traffic. As the article explains taking fast, long distance expresses off the existing Victorian route that goes through towns/cities releases the existing route to carry much more local passengers, thereby encouraging people to take the train instead of their car. The article says the new route through the countryside is far less damaging than road widening schemes. A dual carriage way is a lot wider and than a rail line. 2. The project is to reap benefits in the second half of the century not in the short term.
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 17, 2021 9:15:59 GMT
Firstly I would agree that we cannot keep pandering to road traffic if we are going to address the environmental issues that face us all but would seriously question how HS2 contributes to that. The average car journey in the UK is just 9.4 miles - so most road journeys are short. The continuous traffic jams you refer to are not people commuting from the centre of London to Manchester, but people commuting from places like Reading to London, Tamworth to Coventry or Sandbach to Worsley and using stretches of the M4/M42/M6 to do so. In fact if you build a road to mirror HS2 (ie start central London, Finish Picadilly Manchester and the only other places you could get on or off were Birmingham or Crewe) the I wouldn't be surprised if a dual carriageway would be more than enough to cope.And whilst demand for rail journeys has increased over the past couple of decades, this too has largely been for short distance commuting. In fact the D0T's own figures show that the West Coast mainline runs on average at only 32% capacity. Overlay this with the fact that many of the punters who would use HS2 (and certainly at it's likely price point) are not the type of commuters travelling to factories or call centres but business people travelling for meetings - then post pandemic the likely increased use of Zoom (other virtual meeting software is available) means the case for HS2 all but evaporates. In fact the ONLY case for it appears to be "we've started so we'll finish" HS2 is not scheduled to be complete until 2040 (and it will no doubt be late, overbudget and subject to a public enquiry) so for HS2 to therefore be a "start" is simply to late. If we want to tackle these issues the factors like better/greener town planning, aggressive carbon taxing at both corporate and personal level (with generous subsidies and incentives in the opposite direction), working towards shorter supply chains and genuine international co-operation would make much more difference far sooner than this white elephant vanity project. I think you make a lot of valid points but I think you are missing two points in the article. 1. The objective is to separate local rail traffic from long distance traffic. As the article explains taking fast, long distance expresses off the existing Victorian route that goes through towns/cities releases the existing route to carry much more local passengers, thereby encouraging people to take the train instead of their car. The article says the new route through the countryside is far less damaging than road widening schemes. A dual carriage way is a lot wider and than a rail line. 2. The project is to reap benefits in the second half of the century not in the short term. I think you miss my point also. I wasn't literally suggesting that a dual carriageway should be build merely looking to illustrate that the volume of passenger traffic does't warrant the expenditure or damage that will be caused.
|
|
|
Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 17, 2021 9:27:28 GMT
I would argue that a decent road/rail infrastructure is badly needed down here in the south west. Road wise we currently have three main arterial routes to Devon and Cornwall; the A38 that connects the end of the M5 at Exeter to Bodmin via the southern route of Plymouth and Saltash. The more northern route connects the M5 from Exeter to Lands End via Launceston and Bodmin. The A380 connects Exeter to Torbay via the A38.There are no motorway past Exeter only single lane and dualled A roads. An accident or any form of road restriction on any of the routes cuts off the towns and cities further on plus the sheer volume of traffic in the summer is balls-aching for local people but it is endured because of the business for tourism. There are currently dialling schemes on all the 3 routes but this tends to just move bottlenecks further on. As for railway links it’s a joke with just one main route from Bristol to Penzance via Newton Abbot, Totnes, Plymouth with branch lines serving some of the coastal towns. When the line was damaged at Dawlish in severe storms few years ago Devon and Cornwall were completely cut off and had to rely on road network for many months. Plus trains from Plymouth to Penzance are speed restricted, although it takes 3 hours to travel 215 miles from London to Plymouth it then takes almost 2 hours to travel 77 miles to Penzance. Local al MPs have lobbied transport secretary in HoC to try and get more investment to re-route the line inland and improve road infrastructure to no avail. HS2 for us down here is meaningless. They are looking at reopening the okehampton line (currently a heritage line) and extending it to Plymouth as an alternative route to avoid Dawlish should the sea wall get washed away again.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Apr 17, 2021 11:24:41 GMT
I think you make a lot of valid points but I think you are missing two points in the article. 1. The objective is to separate local rail traffic from long distance traffic. As the article explains taking fast, long distance expresses off the existing Victorian route that goes through towns/cities releases the existing route to carry much more local passengers, thereby encouraging people to take the train instead of their car. The article says the new route through the countryside is far less damaging than road widening schemes. A dual carriage way is a lot wider and than a rail line. 2. The project is to reap benefits in the second half of the century not in the short term. I think you miss my point also. I wasn't literally suggesting that a dual carriageway should be build merely looking to illustrate that the volume of passenger traffic does't warrant the expenditure or damage that will be caused. Apologies if that misinterpreted your comment about building a dual carriageway. The volume of traffic on the east coast routes (rail, M1, A1M) is huge and HS2 would bring relief when completed to Leeds. Leeds is undergoing massive investment, one of the highest in Europe and is becoming a major financial services and IT centre. The M6Toll has relieved the M6 marginally, we need to move traffic onto rail. When completed to Leeds (and Manchester) the HS2 will encourage those who travel long distances to use it due to shorter travel times, and it will release the old Victorian routes that run through towns and cities for short journeys for commuting, etc. to be loaded more to encourage more rail users for those kind of journeys.
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 17, 2021 13:45:04 GMT
I think you miss my point also. I wasn't literally suggesting that a dual carriageway should be build merely looking to illustrate that the volume of passenger traffic does't warrant the expenditure or damage that will be caused. Apologies if that misinterpreted your comment about building a dual carriageway. The volume of traffic on the east coast routes (rail, M1, A1M) is huge and HS2 would bring relief when completed to Leeds. Leeds is undergoing massive investment, one of the highest in Europe and is becoming a major financial services and IT centre. The M6Toll has relieved the M6 marginally, we need to move traffic onto rail. When completed to Leeds (and Manchester) the HS2 will encourage those who travel long distances to use it due to shorter travel times, and it will release the old Victorian routes that run through towns and cities for short journeys for commuting, etc. to be loaded more to encourage more rail users for those kind of journeys. And IT and Services centres can manage perfectly well online. I know you like your little vignette's - but a guy I know runs his own business. Pre pandemic he was adamant his business had to be face to face. He was the archtypal 'air miles addict' - "if it's Berlin it must be Tuesday type of guy". The pandemic hit him like a truck. But one he'd picked himelf up he started working with his clients to put his service delivery online - he reckons he's about 50% there now- and what's more he can't wait to get the other 50% online too. He spends more time at home, gets done in 3 days what used to take him 5, sees his kids, sleeps better and from a business point of view has reduced his costs substantially which he has been able to partly pass on to his clients. Everybody wins. And a lot of HS2 type commuter business will go that way too imho. Time will tell and I guess we'll have to afree to differ in the meantime. But if they are going ahead with this vandalism the least rhey can do by way of compensation is ban highly environmentally unfriendly short distance internal flights like London to Leeds or London to Manchester and shift that lot onto the trains.
|
|
|
Post by foghornsgleghorn on Apr 17, 2021 13:57:05 GMT
Apologies if that misinterpreted your comment about building a dual carriageway. The volume of traffic on the east coast routes (rail, M1, A1M) is huge and HS2 would bring relief when completed to Leeds. Leeds is undergoing massive investment, one of the highest in Europe and is becoming a major financial services and IT centre. The M6Toll has relieved the M6 marginally, we need to move traffic onto rail. When completed to Leeds (and Manchester) the HS2 will encourage those who travel long distances to use it due to shorter travel times, and it will release the old Victorian routes that run through towns and cities for short journeys for commuting, etc. to be loaded more to encourage more rail users for those kind of journeys. And IT and Services centres can manage perfectly well online. I know you like your little vignette's - but a guy I know runs his own business. Pre pandemic he was adamant his business had to be face to face. He was the archtypal 'air miles addict' - "if it's Berlin it must be Tuesday type of guy". The pandemic hit him like a truck. But one he'd picked himelf up he started working with his clients to put his service delivery online - he reckons he's about 50% there now- and what's more he can't wait to get the other 50% online too. He spends more time at home, gets done in 3 days what used to take him 5, sees his kids, sleeps better and from a business point of view has reduced his costs substantially which he has been able to partly pass on to his clients. Everybody wins. And a lot of HS2 type commuter business will go that way too imho. Time will tell and I guess we'll have to afree to differ in the meantime. But if they are going ahead with this vandalism the least rhey can do by way of compensation is ban highly environmentally unfriendly short distance internal flights like London to Leeds or London to Manchester and shift that lot onto the trains. Re-short-haul , the French are doing it: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56716708
|
|
|
Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 17, 2021 14:22:19 GMT
I would argue that a decent road/rail infrastructure is badly needed down here in the south west. Road wise we currently have three main arterial routes to Devon and Cornwall; the A38 that connects the end of the M5 at Exeter to Bodmin via the southern route of Plymouth and Saltash. The more northern route connects the M5 from Exeter to Lands End via Launceston and Bodmin. The A380 connects Exeter to Torbay via the A38.There are no motorway past Exeter only single lane and dualled A roads. An accident or any form of road restriction on any of the routes cuts off the towns and cities further on plus the sheer volume of traffic in the summer is balls-aching for local people but it is endured because of the business for tourism. There are currently dialling schemes on all the 3 routes but this tends to just move bottlenecks further on. As for railway links it’s a joke with just one main route from Bristol to Penzance via Newton Abbot, Totnes, Plymouth with branch lines serving some of the coastal towns. When the line was damaged at Dawlish in severe storms few years ago Devon and Cornwall were completely cut off and had to rely on road network for many months. Plus trains from Plymouth to Penzance are speed restricted, although it takes 3 hours to travel 215 miles from London to Plymouth it then takes almost 2 hours to travel 77 miles to Penzance. Local al MPs have lobbied transport secretary in HoC to try and get more investment to re-route the line inland and improve road infrastructure to no avail. HS2 for us down here is meaningless. They are looking at reopening the okehampton line (currently a heritage line) and extending it to Plymouth as an alternative route to avoid Dawlish should the sea wall get washed away again. I’ve heard talk of this. The service between Exeter and Okehampton is the easy bit because the line exists. Coming south from Okehampton the line stops at Meldon Quarry and although the route to Gunnislake via Tavistock exists the lines were removed years ago and at least one station is a private home. It will probably initially be some mishmash with trains from Plymouth to Gunnislake on existing lines then bus route to Okehampton. The £45.5m allocated is just to upgrade the line from Exeter to Okehampton from a heritage to service line.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Apr 17, 2021 17:34:01 GMT
Apologies if that misinterpreted your comment about building a dual carriageway. The volume of traffic on the east coast routes (rail, M1, A1M) is huge and HS2 would bring relief when completed to Leeds. Leeds is undergoing massive investment, one of the highest in Europe and is becoming a major financial services and IT centre. The M6Toll has relieved the M6 marginally, we need to move traffic onto rail. When completed to Leeds (and Manchester) the HS2 will encourage those who travel long distances to use it due to shorter travel times, and it will release the old Victorian routes that run through towns and cities for short journeys for commuting, etc. to be loaded more to encourage more rail users for those kind of journeys. And IT and Services centres can manage perfectly well online. I know you like your little vignette's - but a guy I know runs his own business. Pre pandemic he was adamant his business had to be face to face. He was the archtypal 'air miles addict' - "if it's Berlin it must be Tuesday type of guy". The pandemic hit him like a truck. But one he'd picked himelf up he started working with his clients to put his service delivery online - he reckons he's about 50% there now- and what's more he can't wait to get the other 50% online too. He spends more time at home, gets done in 3 days what used to take him 5, sees his kids, sleeps better and from a business point of view has reduced his costs substantially which he has been able to partly pass on to his clients. Everybody wins. And a lot of HS2 type commuter business will go that way too imho. Time will tell and I guess we'll have to afree to differ in the meantime. But if they are going ahead with this vandalism the least rhey can do by way of compensation is ban highly environmentally unfriendly short distance internal flights like London to Leeds or London to Manchester and shift that lot onto the trains. I fully agree with you and agree with your business friend. When I worked we used to meet in IJmuiden from all quarters of the UK as it was easier to go to your local airport and fly there than try and meet anywhere in the UK. London might seem an obvious place to meet but it was impracticable due to time and busyness of of roads and rail. But we changed to internet conferencing in 2008 as a result of the financial crisis and I chaired global conferences between UK, Netherlands, India, and the Far East. The conference room in the London head office was like being in a live meeting with large life size screens opposite you across the conference table. You have mentioned business travel on rail a couple of times so I thought I'd look up the facts as when I have travelled by train* on business I did not think there were that many other business passengers. *South Wales and North East to London. assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/787488/tsgb-2018-report-summaries.pdfThis suggest that half the travelers by rail are business and commuting to work. Since there is a massive number of commuters in the south east, that would suggest that less than half the travelers in the rest of the country are on business. As the decades pass the amount of leisure time is steadily increasing. By 2040 we will almost certainly be down to a 4 day week at most surely and the amount of travel, holidays, days out, etc. will have increased again as much as it has over the last decades. I therefore conclude that rather than widening and duplicating the motorways, the best policy is to duplicate the Victorian rail network.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on May 11, 2021 18:42:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 19:40:53 GMT
A sickening vanity project.
Not needed. Horrifically over budget. Tearing up the Green Belt.
All so you can get to London a half-hour quicker?
Manchester to Birmingham in 41, not 88, minutes?? Sounds impressive on paper. But christ, at what price?
|
|
|
Post by questionable on May 11, 2021 19:43:29 GMT
I drove past The Wheatsheaf in Onnely last week and looks like they’ve decimated miles of open fields is that where the HS2 line is going??
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 19:43:30 GMT
A sickening vanity project. Not needed. Horrifically over budget. Tearing up the Green Belt. All so you can get to London a half-hour quicker? Manchester to Birmingham in 41, not 88, minutes?? Sounds impressive on paper. But christ, at what price? Reports showed that simply not the capability of carrying people using trains any more rather than cutting times. Personally not been on a train in 20 years but certainly needed something doing due to the sheer volume.
|
|
|
Post by franklin on May 11, 2021 20:01:52 GMT
Our communication links in this country are pitiful and anything that would improve them to reduce road use I'd welcome.
|
|
|
Post by foghornsgleghorn on May 11, 2021 20:32:32 GMT
Stoke gets its own page on the HS2 site- plan is for an hourly service, journey time savings not as significant as Birmingham or Manchester but there should be fewer delays once trains get onto the new line. www.hs2.org.uk/stations/stoke/
|
|
|
Post by ashleyscfc on May 11, 2021 22:16:58 GMT
Stoke gets its own page on the HS2 site- plan is for an hourly service, journey time savings not as significant as Birmingham or Manchester but there should be fewer delays once trains get onto the new line. www.hs2.org.uk/stations/stoke/They don’t mention we’ll get less trains than we have now and the new ones will be more expensive. A joke. We’d be better spending the money on reopening to leek/Alton towers and starting a local tram network
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on May 11, 2021 22:50:05 GMT
I posted the news 4 hours ago that Crossrail has reached a landmark point with the testing of trains in the new tunnels in the middle of London. The thread has reverted to panning HS2. I sat on the fence on HS2 for a long time and have relatives who call it a vanity project. But my view was changed by this article: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hs2-logistics-financial-benefit-controversy-a8937936.htmlThe subject has been discussed on the HS2 thread, where I first posted the above link. The authorities have been remiss is trying to sell the project on the basis of speed and journey times, which I think is insulting people's intelligence. The project is about much more than that. The primary benefit is that by building a new line through the countryside for fast trains, it leaves the old Victorian network to be loaded far higher with slower commuting/stopping/local trains and slower goods trains. That way the burden on local roads can be lifted and the need for more and wider roads is abated. Secondly it will dramatically speed communication between the North/Scotland and London in the second half of the century, but people are not interested in knowing about projects and taxes spent on a scheme only future generations will benefit from. By then there could be 80 million people in the UK. Another long term benefit will be air traffic from Leeds and Manchester to London will be banned on environmental grounds. France are already close to taking this step. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56716708That leads to the environmental issue. New rail lines are far less damaging to the environment and countryside that new or wider motorways as explained in the link above. As to the cost, it is enormous, but it is spread over a very long time. The investment the Victorians made in the railways was enormous and this project will actually give a new lease of life to the Victorian network. The expenditure is largely recycled within the UK economy, a bit like the transfer fees of footballers. Obviously some of the money leaks out of the UK economy in imports, but the industry created by the project will also better position British companies to export products and services. Those who will benefit, connecting London, Manchester, and Leeds sounds limited, but it will actually connect almost half the population of the country far better. Remember the main benefit will be the far higher loading achieved on the old network by moving the express traffic onto a new route. Many in the Stoke area know how big Manchester is but a lot of people don't appreciate how important Leeds is becoming as a national business centre. Leeds is one of the major investment centres of Europe. www.leeds.gov.uk/business/leeds-economyleeds-list.com/culture/27-big-things-in-the-pipeline-for-leeds/The UK has been very remiss in the 20th century in investing in rail. That is now being corrected by a number of large rail projects. www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/railway-upgrade-plan/key-projects/
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 11, 2021 23:12:36 GMT
It's an absolute disgrace of a project. The astoundingly high sums of money being squandered combined with the natural beauty, villages and peoples homes being destroyed is unforgivable.
Great for London, shit for everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by foghornsgleghorn on May 12, 2021 5:07:56 GMT
It's an absolute disgrace of a project. The astoundingly high sums of money being squandered combined with the natural beauty, villages and peoples homes being destroyed is unforgivable. Great for London, shit for everyone else. If it's only good for London why are Manchester/ Leeds / Sheffield etc so insistent on it being built ?
|
|
|
Post by heworksardtho on May 12, 2021 6:21:52 GMT
John Bishop just had his small mansion bought by HS2 for £6.5m, he bought it 8 years ago for £2.5m, not a bad little earning is it? A colleague of mine from the Bracknell office was up in Manchester yesterday, (He's Canadian), said he had a great train journey, Euston to Manchester in 2 hours, so why the fook do we need HS2, it's local routes that need improving, Northwich to Manchester Piccadilly is an hour, it's 30 miles away ferfuxache. He was one of the main objectors until they offered him £6.5 million, money talks and bullshit walks
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 12, 2021 6:51:18 GMT
It's an absolute disgrace of a project. The astoundingly high sums of money being squandered combined with the natural beauty, villages and peoples homes being destroyed is unforgivable. Great for London, shit for everyone else. If it's only good for London why are Manchester/ Leeds / Sheffield etc so insistent on it being built ? Speak to the people in the local community in those cities. You'll find your answer - their not. Note all three are huge University towns so hence I say "local community" and not students. I've genuinely not come across anyone outside of London who is pro HS2.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on May 12, 2021 7:06:54 GMT
If it's only good for London why are Manchester/ Leeds / Sheffield etc so insistent on it being built ? Speak to the people in the local community in those cities. You'll find your answer - their not. Note all three are huge University towns so hence I say "local community" and not students. I've genuinely not come across anyone outside of London who is pro HS2. Apart from the people on this thread?
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 12, 2021 7:09:28 GMT
Speak to the people in the local community in those cities. You'll find your answer - their not. Note all three are huge University towns so hence I say "local community" and not students. I've genuinely not come across anyone outside of London who is pro HS2. Apart from the people on this thread? This thread is scathing of hs2.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on May 12, 2021 7:13:34 GMT
Apart from the people on this thread? This thread is scathing of hs2. Yes But not entirely There are people in favour of HS2 outside London
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 7:36:57 GMT
Stoke gets its own page on the HS2 site- plan is for an hourly service, journey time savings not as significant as Birmingham or Manchester but there should be fewer delays once trains get onto the new line. www.hs2.org.uk/stations/stoke/They don’t mention we’ll get less trains than we have now and the new ones will be more expensive. A joke. We’d be better spending the money on reopening to leek/Alton towers and starting a local tram network A major reason that more people don't use the train network, is the ridiculous cost. Want to travel to London in 'peak' time? The only people doing it are those on Company expenses, or those with more money than sense. So HS2 will get going, it'll be more expensive, less people (certainly the Average Joe) would be likely to use it. I've got colleagues who drive to London, rather than pay for the train, even though the business would expense it - they won't do it out of principle. I've done the same before now.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on May 12, 2021 7:50:48 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 12, 2021 8:00:52 GMT
The guy who's given the go ahead to HS2 on a regular basis has recently been given a ringing political endorsement, much to the glee of many on here. It's almost like the two are connected in some way Edit: no mention of the Leeds section in the Queens speech, so maybe they're going to drop this bit?
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on May 16, 2021 16:39:42 GMT
|
|
|
Post by heworksardtho on May 16, 2021 16:41:10 GMT
There’s gold in them hills
|
|