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Post by mrcoke on Oct 27, 2021 15:46:57 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 27, 2021 16:43:23 GMT
I see there's a cut in Air Passenger Duty for domestic flights - not very good for messaging re-CO2.
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Post by andystokey on Oct 27, 2021 17:03:18 GMT
I see there's a cut in Air Passenger Duty for domestic flights - not very good for messaging re-CO2. All the rhetoric from this government is total greenwashing. HS2 will add more CO2, destroy habitat and NEVER be carbon neutral in its 100y proposed life. We don't need wider roads like the M1 stated, the future can't include personal transport on an increasing scale in a Nett zero economy. The numbers don't add up even with electric. The budget is an opportunity missed to put the UK properly on the map in a carbonless society. In the end as always this is a pre election budget whose effects are intend to be timed for another term. The government has no green agenda at all.
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Post by ravey123 on Oct 27, 2021 17:36:41 GMT
I see there's a cut in Air Passenger Duty for domestic flights - not very good for messaging re-CO2. All the rhetoric from this government is total greenwashing. HS2 will add more CO2, destroy habitat and NEVER be carbon neutral in its 100y proposed life. We don't need wider roads like the M1 stated, the future can't include personal transport on an increasing scale in a Nett zero economy. The numbers don't add up even with electric. The budget is an opportunity missed to put the UK properly on the map in a carbonless society. In the end as always this is a pre election budget whose effects are intend to be timed for another term. The government has no green agenda at all. The best and easiest thing this government can do to cut CO2 emissions is to scrap this godawful project and invest the money into superfast broadband for all then encourage those that can to work from home to negate the need for a lot of the travel in the first place - this will also clear up the roads for freight thus saving CO2 in reduced traffic jams. Not a complete answer but a bloody good start.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 27, 2021 18:36:47 GMT
All the rhetoric from this government is total greenwashing. HS2 will add more CO2, destroy habitat and NEVER be carbon neutral in its 100y proposed life. We don't need wider roads like the M1 stated, the future can't include personal transport on an increasing scale in a Nett zero economy. The numbers don't add up even with electric. The budget is an opportunity missed to put the UK properly on the map in a carbonless society. In the end as always this is a pre election budget whose effects are intend to be timed for another term. The government has no green agenda at all. The best and easiest thing this government can do to cut CO2 emissions is to scrap this godawful project and invest the money into superfast broadband for all then encourage those that can to work from home to negate the need for a lot of the travel in the first place - this will also clear up the roads for freight thus saving CO2 in reduced traffic jams. Not a complete answer but a bloody good start. Free up the roads for freight to reduce CO2? Freight needs moving to rail and rail electrifying if there's any hope for serious reduction in transport emissions. The report here makes a strong case www.riagb.org.uk/RIA/Newsroom/Why_Rail_Electrification_Report.aspx
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Post by ravey123 on Oct 27, 2021 18:42:27 GMT
The best and easiest thing this government can do to cut CO2 emissions is to scrap this godawful project and invest the money into superfast broadband for all then encourage those that can to work from home to negate the need for a lot of the travel in the first place - this will also clear up the roads for freight thus saving CO2 in reduced traffic jams. Not a complete answer but a bloody good start. Free up the roads for freight to reduce CO2? Freight needs moving to rail and rail electrifying if there's any hope for serious reduction in transport emissions. The report here makes a strong case www.riagb.org.uk/RIA/Newsroom/Why_Rail_Electrification_Report.aspxWhere is all this electric coming from - cars, heating, trains - what next. We’re not exactly over blessed with electricity generation in the uk.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 27, 2021 19:42:25 GMT
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 28, 2021 20:14:38 GMT
Cookie, any opinions on the steel /rebar being used on this project,?
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 29, 2021 11:14:52 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 29, 2021 11:23:43 GMT
That was a fascinating read. Of course, finding stuff like this doesn't go anywhere near justifying the ridiculous waste of money on this white elephant vanity project, but it's great that finds like these are made as a consequence of HS2.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 13, 2021 18:29:45 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 13, 2021 20:23:11 GMT
Scandalous waste of money.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 15, 2021 14:28:50 GMT
This will save a few quid.
It's almost like "Northern Powerhouse" is a meaningless and patronising bullshit phrase.....
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 15, 2021 15:36:04 GMT
This will save a few quid. It's almost like "Northern Powerhouse" is a meaningless and patronising bullshit phrase..... Let’s see what they have to say about the alternative projects they say they will announce this week. This could actually be a good thing, bearing in mind the limited benefits HS2 provides. For example, investing in cross Pennine routes would, as I understand, be much more helpful.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 15, 2021 15:39:20 GMT
This will save a few quid. It's almost like "Northern Powerhouse" is a meaningless and patronising bullshit phrase..... Let’s see what they have to say about the alternative projects they say they will announce this week. This could actually be a good thing, bearing in mind the limited benefits HS2 provides. For example, investing in cross Pennine routes would, as I understand, be much more helpful. I look forward to the next plan this government can dilute or renege on.......
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 15, 2021 15:41:39 GMT
Let’s see what they have to say about the alternative projects they say they will announce this week. This could actually be a good thing, bearing in mind the limited benefits HS2 provides. For example, investing in cross Pennine routes would, as I understand, be much more helpful. I look forward to the next plan this government can dilute or renege on....... On this occasion you might even welcome this change of heart.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 15, 2021 15:52:44 GMT
So before the government makes it announcement,
Is this MB in favour of
HS2 to Manchester and Leeds?
"Northern Powerhouse"?
"Levelling up"?
I am in favour of all 3 but think the HS2 link to Leeds should be a new route from Manchester, via Bradford. The east Midlands branch is too expensive at this time.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 15, 2021 16:11:52 GMT
I look forward to the next plan this government can dilute or renege on....... On this occasion you might even welcome this change of heart. I'd love there to be a better rail infrastructure from Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds and beyond, it's a service I use regularly and it is not fit for the 20th century never mind the 21st.......
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 15, 2021 17:06:17 GMT
On this occasion you might even welcome this change of heart. I'd love their to be a better rail infrastructure from Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds and beyond, it's a service I use regularly and it is not fit for the 20th century never mind the 21st....... I should say, that while I expect the new, alternative projects will probably be “better” projects, the scale of investment will be a fraction of the monies associated with the cancelled HS-2. I reckon about 10%. I’d be shocked if was as much as 50%.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 15, 2021 18:20:59 GMT
Eastern arm of HS2 to be abandoned apparently.
No great surprise, too costly, too pointless.
Should bite the bullet and abandon the whole thing. They could win back some of the support lost as a result of sleaze and corruption with that move.
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Post by Northy on Nov 16, 2021 9:12:09 GMT
This will save a few quid. It's almost like "Northern Powerhouse" is a meaningless and patronising bullshit phrase..... Let’s see what they have to say about the alternative projects they say they will announce this week. This could actually be a good thing, bearing in mind the limited benefits HS2 provides. For example, investing in cross Pennine routes would, as I understand, be much more helpful. They've already announced the upgrade of the cross Pennine rail route haven't they? www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/railway-upgrade-plan/key-projects/transpennine-route-upgrade/Meanwhile, 7 months on, one of our local stations is still without a ticket office as it's still fenced off after the roof collapsed when people were stood on the platform. A few weeks later the Mayor of London announced the opening of the Northern Line extension which will generate 20000 homes and 25000 jobs ... www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/live-roof-collapses-onto-northwich-20621496
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Post by cerebralstokie on Nov 16, 2021 11:49:17 GMT
The rail service from Manchester to Leeds is appalling. It is slow and trains are overcrowded. If you bought a ticket online, e.g. Trans Pennine, you cannot use the ticket on Northern Rail and vice versa. It would be possible to get off the train at Manchester Victoria, walk to Piccadilly and get on the same train (just about) because of the slow speed of the train round the Ordsal Chord connecting the two rail stations. Bradford, a bigger conurbation than Stoke, is very poorly connected with the outside world. If you add up the populations of Liverpool city region, Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire Conurbation and Hull it would be very similar the that of Greater London yet connectivity between these areas is very poor. In my view, the money spent on HS2 would have been much better spent on improving east west connections between Liverpool and Hull through Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire.
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 16, 2021 11:58:14 GMT
Eastern arm of HS2 to be abandoned apparently. No great surprise, too costly, too pointless. Should bite the bullet and abandon the whole thing. They could win back some of the support lost as a result of sleaze and corruption with that move. The cynic in me syas that theres more money to be made out of the other proposals so theyre going down that route.......while they still can.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 16, 2021 12:07:19 GMT
The rail service from Manchester to Leeds is appalling. It is slow and trains are overcrowded. If you bought a ticket online, e.g. Trans Pennine, you cannot use the ticket on Northern Rail and vice versa. It would be possible to get off the train at Manchester Victoria, walk to Piccadilly and get on the same train (just about) because of the slow speed of the train round the Ordsal Chord connecting the two rail stations. Bradford, a bigger conurbation than Stoke, is very poorly connected with the outside world. If you add up the populations of Liverpool city region, Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire Conurbation and Hull it would be very similar the that of Greater London yet connectivity between these areas is very poor. In my view, the money spent on HS2 would have been much better spent on improving east west connections between Liverpool and Hull through Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire. And extortionately priced compared to say Manchester - Stoke which is a similar distance and a far more efficient service…..
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 16, 2021 12:08:49 GMT
The rail service from Manchester to Leeds is appalling. It is slow and trains are overcrowded. If you bought a ticket online, e.g. Trans Pennine, you cannot use the ticket on Northern Rail and vice versa. It would be possible to get off the train at Manchester Victoria, walk to Piccadilly and get on the same train (just about) because of the slow speed of the train round the Ordsal Chord connecting the two rail stations. Bradford, a bigger conurbation than Stoke, is very poorly connected with the outside world. If you add up the populations of Liverpool city region, Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire Conurbation and Hull it would be very similar the that of Greater London yet connectivity between these areas is very poor. In my view, the money spent on HS2 would have been much better spent on improving east west connections between Liverpool and Hull through Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire. This!!!!! Do londoners or northeners really want to be able to cut 20 or 30 mins train journey time travelling between the 2 regions? Really, is this what people really want? Levelling up? Then sort the train service from Liverpool to Hull. That is what the North actually needs. But just watch how everything gets watered down the further north you go. It was ever thus. They don't give a single fook in reality about the "flat cap whippet owning classes". We are another annoying neighbour to this govt. May as well be a different country.
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Post by redstriper on Nov 16, 2021 12:35:25 GMT
Since i started this thread the costs of HS2 have gone north of 100 billion, and the cost of crossrail over 19 billion.
so that's approx 120 billion spent on the south, and zero spent on the north.
levelling up ?... don't make us laugh. It was always about London, it's never about anywhere else is it ?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 16, 2021 13:09:06 GMT
Since i started this thread the costs of HS2 have gone north of 100 billion, and the cost of crossrail over 19 billion. so that's approx 120 billion spent on the south, and zero spent on the north. levelling up ?... don't make us laugh. It was always about London, it's never about anywhere else is it ? Correct. Demostrated perfectly a few years back when London Crossrail ran into financial difficulties so they announced it would be getting additional funding. The very same day they shelved plans for the electification of the manchester to sheffield line. They didnt even have the "respect" to try and hide it. In your face, fook you, we are ALL about London, yoos lot can all piss off down to the Slaughtered Lamb for a game of darts and a pint of bitter (tears)
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 26, 2021 15:09:34 GMT
I have studied the government's new integrated rail plan announced a couple of weeks ago.
Naturally the government are praising it, at £96 billion, its the biggest investment in rail history. That is playing with numbers as it is clearly less than completing the whole of HS2 and investing in the cross Pennine and Northern city interconnecting that were promised, which, taken together, would have pushed costs north of £180 billion.
By scrapping the phase 2B east leg to Leeds it avoids a lot of the disruption to communities that were objecting to the scheme; a vote winner. By concentrating on completing the HS2 West route north of Crewe it secures the advantages of a new fast line from Manchester to London. Apart from shorter journey times, for me the main benefit of building a new separate line is that it releases the old Victorian lines to be used for increased short distance commuting and freight movement.
Unfortunately by not building a new east route there is reduced opportunity for increased short distance commuting and increased freight movement. The planned investments do however deliver much improved journey times and the Manchester - Leeds route includes increasing the amount of 4 track sections to allow fast trains to pass slow "stoppers".
The plan effectively delivers 80% of the benefits for 55% of the cost. With the country now having the biggest pandemic debt since WW2 it is hardly surprising the government have had to trim its expenditure.
I was in favour of a high speed link between Manchester and Leeds but the proposal does reduce journey time to within a few minutes of what it would have been with HS so I accept that is justifiable. I think the investment in Leeds transport is very good, as Leeds is rapidly growing into a major European city. Less satisfactory is the failure to rapid connect Leeds and Sheffield, trawling down the M1 is a pain in the backside and a fast rail alternative is really needed.
The big loss of the the reduced investment proposal is that by not building new second routes between cities there is less opportunity for getting freight onto rail. The increased electrification to circa 80% brings environmental benefit but not as much maximising the old Victorian lines by moving fast traffic onto a new line.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 9, 2021 16:39:23 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 9, 2022 21:11:43 GMT
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