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Post by harryburrows on Mar 29, 2021 17:42:09 GMT
Stoke Mandeville, cant afford Wendover and my ex wife lives there . Spent 20 years living in berkhamsted. Hmm it’s pretty pricy but I was just a young in so didn’t need to worry about that, also lived on Great Missenden and Halton next to the RAF base. Was born at Stoke Mandeville hospital. Its getting silly now not sure how youngsters can afford to get on the housing ladder my daughter just bought a semi for 500k . Wendover is lovely but hs2 is going just to the side of it . Not to worried about the rail traffic as the modern trains aren't to loud .its the 7 years of construction traffic we will have to put up with
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 29, 2021 18:56:04 GMT
Use to know a lad named Ben Dover As I typed Wendover I thought to myself “prepare for the old Ben Dover gag from heworksardtho”. You rarely disappoint😉 My wife says the same 😉
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Post by richie22 on Mar 29, 2021 19:18:30 GMT
I was down at the denham-Uxbridge site a month ago, they’re building a 3 km viaduct to carry the ‘vanity’ express over historic wetlands and countryside to a point where they’re currently building tbm s to push on under the m25 and onto and further under the chiltons. the site was by far the biggest I’ve ever seen and the heavy machines were ripping the place a new arsehole. I dread the day they arrive here. However it is still my opinion that once COVID retreats to manageable levels and we have to start paying the bills as a country again the endless flow of cash will get cut off. I see it no further than Birmingham, before major cash flow issues. The country cannot afford it, the benefits are next to nothing and the accelerated rate at which people have discover ‘working from home’ means it’s pointless. Trains are already extortionate, no one will be on them.
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Post by ravey123 on Mar 29, 2021 19:45:50 GMT
Just seen that a semi permanant protest camp has been set-up on the A51 between Stone and Baldwins Gate to protest about the cutting down of old oak trees in the area to make way for HS2. Just what is the point of this pretty pointless vanity project that will benefit those in Manchester, Birmingham and London but make the lives of the thousands along its route a bloody misery I drove past this yesterday. Whilst I am totally against HS2 I don't get the point of these camps. Its done and dusted that it's going ahead so what are they trying to achieve? I believe their goal is not to stop HS2 but to protect historic woodland from being cut down
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Post by dave1 on Mar 29, 2021 20:53:27 GMT
I drove past this yesterday. Whilst I am totally against HS2 I don't get the point of these camps. Its done and dusted that it's going ahead so what are they trying to achieve? I believe their goal is not to stop HS2 but to protect historic woodland from being cut down But they're doomed to fail. I'll just get pulled kicking and screaming!!
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Mar 29, 2021 21:09:12 GMT
Has Farage discussed it at any point?
Problem 1 - 'The Name' It is designed to improve capacity not speed. (Saving 12 minutes from Brum - London is completely irrelevant)
Problem 2 - 'Time and delays' We have been gifted our rail network without any major developments since the Victorian age (yes we've gone electric) but big infrastructure changes have been few and far between.
Problem 3 - 'The Deal' I'd need to find the clip from the chairman of the rail mag but the whacking hike in cost was to do with effectively a warranty included in the build. Scenario used was as follows from memory:
Builder A - builds a house for £250k
Builder B - builds a house and provides a warranty for 50 years, the cost £?
If my house was to be subject to a CPO, you could bet your left testicle I would be up in arms about it. But it's not and our rail service is abysmal.
+ we've got £350m/week to support the nurses so press ahead for me.
** Happy to be talked out of it though... 😁
Choo chooooooo 🚆
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Post by misterj on Mar 29, 2021 21:51:17 GMT
When they built TGV in France they said it would stimulate economic growth in poorer southern towns such as Avignon and putting them in a par with Paris. (A sort of reversal of Boris’s ‘we’re levelling up the north with the south’) Most French economists agree that it did not achieve this at all. I rest my case!
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Post by somersetstokie on Mar 29, 2021 22:34:04 GMT
Pity HS2 is not already complete. It would give Londoners an opportunity of a quick day trip to Birmingham to have a look and see the locations where "Peaky Blinders" was filmed.
Edit. For the record I am totally against HS2. I am not an environmental activist or militant of any sort, but I just think it's wrong. I have already seen how some areas that I know well are being devastated in the name of progress.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Mar 29, 2021 22:41:11 GMT
Pity HS2 is not already complete. It would give Londoners an opportunity of a quick day trip to Birmingham to have a look and see the locations where "Peaky Blinders" was filmed. Edit. For the record I am totally against HS2. I am not an environmental activist or militant of any sort, but I just think it's wrong. I have already seen how some areas that I know well are being devastated in the name of progress. They’d be a bit miffed if they did as it’s filmed in Liverpool.
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Post by somersetstokie on Mar 29, 2021 22:58:21 GMT
Pity HS2 is not already complete. It would give Londoners an opportunity of a quick day trip to Birmingham to have a look and see the locations where "Peaky Blinders" was filmed. Edit. For the record I am totally against HS2. I am not an environmental activist or militant of any sort, but I just think it's wrong. I have already seen how some areas that I know well are being devastated in the name of progress. They’d be a bit miffed if they did as it’s filmed in Liverpool. Well I never! Mind you I think I only ever saw one episode so I can't argue.
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Post by somersetstokie on Apr 15, 2021 20:06:15 GMT
I passed through one of the rail line construction sites yesteday, and I have to say that whatever your opinion of the project as an engineering achievement you can't help but be moved by the extent of the devastation of natural habitats along the route. I actually stopped near to where an ancient country lane has been rerouted to make way for the railway, such is the scale of the operation. The spot where I was is in a small area where the Roman Fosse Way crosses the historic Welsh Way, not far from where the Saxon King Offa was believed to have had a "Palace", but the area has just been obliterated by the scars of earthworks. All that potential heritage has now gone forever. It is all so sad.
What made it worse was that I was talking to a client today and the subject of HS2 came up, and as a supporter of the project the Guy was extolling the supposed benefits of the route and the time savings that were possible. I felt obliged to point out that if the track was ready tomorrow and this guy saved half an hour travelling from Brum to Euston, it would still take an hour for him to get across London to his destination in Kensington Church Street. So what has been achieved?
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 15, 2021 20:44:59 GMT
I passed through one of the rail line construction sites yesteday, and I have to say that whatever your opinion of the project as an engineering achievement you can't help but be moved by the extent of the devastation of natural habitats along the route. I actually stopped near to where an ancient country lane has been rerouted to make way for the railway, such is the scale of the operation. The spot where I was is in a small area where the Roman Fosse Way crosses the historic Welsh Way, not far from where the Saxon King Offa was believed to have had a "Palace", but the area has just been obliterated by the scars of earthworks. All that potential heritage has now gone forever. It is all so sad. What made it worse was that I was talking to a client today and the subject of HS2 came up, and as a supporter of the project the Guy was extolling the supposed benefits of the route and the time savings that were possible. I felt obliged to point out that if the track was ready tomorrow and this guy saved half an hour travelling from Brum to Euston, it would still take an hour for him to get across London to his destination in Kensington Church Street. So what has been achieved? I totally agree with everything you've said and as I've said earlier it will run very close to my house. The time saving is a bit of a red herring . The reason its being built is the current capacity it at breaking point and needs to be increased with a new line which I understand
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Post by chuffedstokie on Apr 16, 2021 6:53:07 GMT
I passed through one of the rail line construction sites yesteday, and I have to say that whatever your opinion of the project as an engineering achievement you can't help but be moved by the extent of the devastation of natural habitats along the route. I actually stopped near to where an ancient country lane has been rerouted to make way for the railway, such is the scale of the operation. The spot where I was is in a small area where the Roman Fosse Way crosses the historic Welsh Way, not far from where the Saxon King Offa was believed to have had a "Palace", but the area has just been obliterated by the scars of earthworks. All that potential heritage has now gone forever. It is all so sad. What made it worse was that I was talking to a client today and the subject of HS2 came up, and as a supporter of the project the Guy was extolling the supposed benefits of the route and the time savings that were possible. I felt obliged to point out that if the track was ready tomorrow and this guy saved half an hour travelling from Brum to Euston, it would still take an hour for him to get across London to his destination in Kensington Church Street. So what has been achieved? I totally agree with everything you've said and as I've said earlier it will run very close to my house. The time saving is a bit of a red herring . The reason its being built is the current capacity it at breaking point and needs to be increased with a new line which I understand Without going into the route choices and implications you're correct harry re capacity. Having a line dedicated to one type of of train, all travelling at the same speed (albeit quickly) and not competing with commuter traffic and freight for space on the same rails allows for extra services,easier signalling and much greater efficiency. Once you've gone through passport control in, say Manchester and don't get off until Paris some people might find attractive. I'll be honest having used HS1 on a handful of occasions it's a very good efficient and comfortable way to travel.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 16, 2021 7:00:21 GMT
I've never met one single person who wants Hs2. Not one. I have met one. He was a temporary manager at a company I worked for a couple of years ago. On his last day he told me he’d got a new job as a consultant for HS2 contracts & bids. He explained he’d earn in 2 days there what he was earning a week at my place - he was on £600 a day with my company as a minimum...
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 16, 2021 9:52:24 GMT
The case for HS2. SInce the 1980s there has been a dramatic rise in rail travel: www.statista.com/statistics/304957/total-historical-national-rail-passenger-journeys-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/From the beginning of this century, despite continued investment much of the rail network has reached saturation point. On the east coast line for example it is not practicable to make any new connections to the main line as it is fully utilised. I was lucky in circa 2002 to start moving product from Co. Durham to South Wales by rail because the works had an existing connection that was being utilised for traffic to the east coast. Had that not been the case we would have continued to move product by road. Passenger loading is massive, people not having seats at peak time. I have had to stand from Kings Cross to York in the past. Trains can be made longer but are limited by infrastructure such as platforms. Looking forward decades the UK needs to double its rail infrastructure not just to meet future rail passenger demand, but to reduce road traffic. I appreciate HS2 is damaging nature during construction, road traffic pollution is killing the planet and a great many people in urban localities. Electric cars and gas lorries will replace the internal combustion engine in time, but even these will motivate people to "take the train" (an advert that long ceased to be necessary as trains are full!). It is not a question of knocking 30 minutes off travel time. We cannot keep increasing our roads for ever. Many parts of the motorways are 5 or more lanes and at a stand still for hours a week. The A1M has driven huge tracts of motorway through countryside of Yorkshire and Durham in the last two decades, just like HS2, but far more polluting when it is finished. Northallerton is a continuous traffic jamb due to level crossings in the town being shut every 10 minutes. I dread to think what the air quality standards in Northallerton are. In summary we cannot keep giving way and pandering to road traffic. We have to rebuild the Victorian rail network. The alternative is passports to travel in our own country which is silly. The routes from London to Manchester and Leeds are the start and aimed at taking load of the historic east and west rail routes north.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 16, 2021 10:05:48 GMT
Hard to believe we are spending millions to put back what was essentially there pre-beeching.
One thing that does amaze me is why we havent gone for a more continental/american approach of double decker coaches. Yes there are a number of obstacles such as tunnels, platform heights etc, but it we are building this brand new infrastructure, why not think outside the box instead of utilising the usual single height coaches and small platform lengths.
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 16, 2021 11:18:02 GMT
Hard to believe we are spending millions to put back what was essentially there pre-beeching. One thing that does amaze me is why we havent gone for a more continental/american approach of double decker coaches. Yes there are a number of obstacles such as tunnels, platform heights etc, but it we are building this brand new infrastructure, why not think outside the box instead of utilising the usual single height coaches and small platform lengths. That's not correct. Beeching retained the main lines, but shut thousands of branch lines. What is taking place is building new lines to supplement and upgrade existing overloaded routes, such as HS2, Crossrail, GNRP*, Merseyrail, etc. There are projects to restore what Beeching closed, but in the main those are minor projects. a significant one being the Varsity line between Oxford and Cambridge. * www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/railway-upgrade-plan/key-projects/great-north-rail-project/I'm sure the experts will have considered all the options. One of the major problems with upgrading existing routes is the interruption to existing services. The idea of enlarging a tunnel that is currently been used at full capacity I doubt is viable, but I'm not a civil engineer or rail expert. A relative of mine works of the development of the railways and works all sorts of odd hours, nights, week ends, bank holidays when the rail line is stopped for development. It's a very expensive slow process. Double decker coaches is a good way but our existing electric lines have power lines at the current set height and changing the whole length and bridges would mean a very long outage. We've shutdown Big Ben for years for a refurbish, how long would it take to change the power rail height of one of our main lines? It could of course be done if a new line is to be electrified, but then the rolling stock would be bespoke for that line.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 16, 2021 11:20:07 GMT
We’re doing some work on various hs2 infrastructure in London and it’s widely accepted that everyone on there is on the take. All the way up to the top. It’s a bottomless money pit. Sadly this comment doesn't surprise me in the least. One massive CON. Its basically a clever way of getting a load of cash injected into the south of England under the guise of "oh look this benefits the north". The only people in the north that will benefit from this long term is bankers and lawyers having 30 mins less on a train. They should scrap it and give the money to Stoke upwards to be spent on improving general infrastructure up North. Do you remember a few years back when they scrapped the proposal to electrify the Manchester to Sheffield line and the VERY next day announced additional billions going into the London Crossrail scheme which had massively overrun in cost. They might say they do but this government doesn't give a single shit about anywhere north of Highgate.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 16, 2021 12:09:12 GMT
Hard to believe we are spending millions to put back what was essentially there pre-beeching. One thing that does amaze me is why we havent gone for a more continental/american approach of double decker coaches. Yes there are a number of obstacles such as tunnels, platform heights etc, but it we are building this brand new infrastructure, why not think outside the box instead of utilising the usual single height coaches and small platform lengths. That's not correct. Beeching retained the main lines, but shut thousands of branch lines. What is taking place is building new lines to supplement and upgrade existing overloaded routes, such as HS2, Crossrail, GNRP*, Merseyrail, etc. There are projects to restore what Beeching closed, but in the main those are minor projects. a significant one being the Varsity line between Oxford and Cambridge. * www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/railway-upgrade-plan/key-projects/great-north-rail-project/I'm sure the experts will have considered all the options. One of the major problems with upgrading existing routes is the interruption to existing services. The idea of enlarging a tunnel that is currently been used at full capacity I doubt is viable, but I'm not a civil engineer or rail expert. A relative of mine works of the development of the railways and works all sorts of odd hours, nights, week ends, bank holidays when the rail line is stopped for development. It's a very expensive slow process. Double decker coaches is a good way but our existing electric lines have power lines at the current set height and changing the whole length and bridges would mean a very long outage. We've shutdown Big Ben for years for a refurbish, how long would it take to change the power rail height of one of our main lines? It could of course be done if a new line is to be electrified, but then the rolling stock would be bespoke for that line. Im sure i read somewhere they were bringing back part of the great northern line via Aylesbury which was shut in the 60s as part of HS2 or maybe a parallel line next too it?
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Post by spiderpuss on Apr 16, 2021 13:23:48 GMT
We think we can become some mini-China by adding a cheesy high-speed line, just as everyone else is thinking about working from home. I wish Swampy and co all the luck in the world trying to defeat this ridiculous vanity project. The environmental impact is horrible and largely unnecessary.
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 16, 2021 15:42:49 GMT
That's not correct. Beeching retained the main lines, but shut thousands of branch lines. What is taking place is building new lines to supplement and upgrade existing overloaded routes, such as HS2, Crossrail, GNRP*, Merseyrail, etc. There are projects to restore what Beeching closed, but in the main those are minor projects. a significant one being the Varsity line between Oxford and Cambridge. * www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/railway-upgrade-plan/key-projects/great-north-rail-project/I'm sure the experts will have considered all the options. One of the major problems with upgrading existing routes is the interruption to existing services. The idea of enlarging a tunnel that is currently been used at full capacity I doubt is viable, but I'm not a civil engineer or rail expert. A relative of mine works of the development of the railways and works all sorts of odd hours, nights, week ends, bank holidays when the rail line is stopped for development. It's a very expensive slow process. Double decker coaches is a good way but our existing electric lines have power lines at the current set height and changing the whole length and bridges would mean a very long outage. We've shutdown Big Ben for years for a refurbish, how long would it take to change the power rail height of one of our main lines? It could of course be done if a new line is to be electrified, but then the rolling stock would be bespoke for that line. Im sure i read somewhere they were bringing back part of the great northern line via Aylesbury which was shut in the 60s as part of HS2 or maybe a parallel line next too it? Mate I live in Aylesbury and its all Virgin land as far as I'm aware
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Post by questionable on Apr 16, 2021 15:58:30 GMT
I've never met one single person who wants Hs2. Not one. I have met one. He was a temporary manager at a company I worked for a couple of years ago. On his last day he told me he’d got a new job as a consultant for HS2 contracts & bids. He explained he’d earn in 2 days there what he was earning a week at my place - he was on £600 a day with my company as a minimum... Recall being told about train contracts, some of the figures I was told were staggering, won’t go into the back handlers being handed out.
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 16, 2021 16:20:27 GMT
This is an article explaining the logic behind the project. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hs2-logistics-financial-benefit-controversy-a8937936.htmlThe article criticising the governments explanation of the need for the new line. A few opinions how found interesting were: 1. Having 2 lines means more traffic than doubling the rails as fast longer distance trains will run on the new line leaving the old lines to maximise computer traffic. The current configuration means local and intercity traffic hamper each other. 2. The real pay off will be after phase 2 is completed to Manchester and Leeds as it dramatically reduces times from the north to London and facilitates better cross north country traffic. 3. It does not deny the ecological damage, but says it is exaggerated compared with the ongoing damage by road development schemes.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Apr 16, 2021 16:31:53 GMT
That's not correct. Beeching retained the main lines, but shut thousands of branch lines. What is taking place is building new lines to supplement and upgrade existing overloaded routes, such as HS2, Crossrail, GNRP*, Merseyrail, etc. There are projects to restore what Beeching closed, but in the main those are minor projects. a significant one being the Varsity line between Oxford and Cambridge. * www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/railway-upgrade-plan/key-projects/great-north-rail-project/I'm sure the experts will have considered all the options. One of the major problems with upgrading existing routes is the interruption to existing services. The idea of enlarging a tunnel that is currently been used at full capacity I doubt is viable, but I'm not a civil engineer or rail expert. A relative of mine works of the development of the railways and works all sorts of odd hours, nights, week ends, bank holidays when the rail line is stopped for development. It's a very expensive slow process. Double decker coaches is a good way but our existing electric lines have power lines at the current set height and changing the whole length and bridges would mean a very long outage. We've shutdown Big Ben for years for a refurbish, how long would it take to change the power rail height of one of our main lines? It could of course be done if a new line is to be electrified, but then the rolling stock would be bespoke for that line. Im sure i read somewhere they were bringing back part of the great northern line via Aylesbury which was shut in the 60s as part of HS2 or maybe a parallel line next too it? It will follow part of the old Great Central from Quainton to Calvert
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 16, 2021 16:46:22 GMT
Im sure i read somewhere they were bringing back part of the great northern line via Aylesbury which was shut in the 60s as part of HS2 or maybe a parallel line next too it? It will follow part of the old Great Central from Quainton to Calvert Thats it. Cheers Foghorn 👍👍
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Post by somersetstokie on Apr 16, 2021 17:34:00 GMT
Can we still expect more classic delay statements in the form of "Leaves on the Line", "the wrong sort of Snow" and "the driver didn't know the way"?
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Post by theoptimist on Apr 16, 2021 18:28:08 GMT
So if it's to benefit the North, why not start in the North and build southward?
Will never be completed, but whatever is finished will benefit London.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 17, 2021 5:33:13 GMT
The case for HS2. SInce the 1980s there has been a dramatic rise in rail travel: www.statista.com/statistics/304957/total-historical-national-rail-passenger-journeys-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/From the beginning of this century, despite continued investment much of the rail network has reached saturation point. On the east coast line for example it is not practicable to make any new connections to the main line as it is fully utilised. I was lucky in circa 2002 to start moving product from Co. Durham to South Wales by rail because the works had an existing connection that was being utilised for traffic to the east coast. Had that not been the case we would have continued to move product by road. Passenger loading is massive, people not having seats at peak time. I have had to stand from Kings Cross to York in the past. Trains can be made longer but are limited by infrastructure such as platforms. Looking forward decades the UK needs to double its rail infrastructure not just to meet future rail passenger demand, but to reduce road traffic. I appreciate HS2 is damaging nature during construction, road traffic pollution is killing the planet and a great many people in urban localities. Electric cars and gas lorries will replace the internal combustion engine in time, but even these will motivate people to "take the train" (an advert that long ceased to be necessary as trains are full!). It is not a question of knocking 30 minutes off travel time. We cannot keep increasing our roads for ever. Many parts of the motorways are 5 or more lanes and at a stand still for hours a week. The A1M has driven huge tracts of motorway through countryside of Yorkshire and Durham in the last two decades, just like HS2, but far more polluting when it is finished. Northallerton is a continuous traffic jamb due to level crossings in the town being shut every 10 minutes. I dread to think what the air quality standards in Northallerton are. In summary we cannot keep giving way and pandering to road traffic. We have to rebuild the Victorian rail network. The alternative is passports to travel in our own country which is silly. The routes from London to Manchester and Leeds are the start and aimed at taking load of the historic east and west rail routes north. Firstly I would agree that we cannot keep pandering to road traffic if we are going to address the environmental issues that face us all but would seriously question how HS2 contributes to that. The average car journey in the UK is just 9.4 miles - so most road journeys are short. The continuous traffic jams you refer to are not people commuting from the centre of London to Manchester, but people commuting from places like Reading to London, Tamworth to Coventry or Sandbach to Worsley and using stretches of the M4/M42/M6 to do so. In fact if you build a road to mirror HS2 (ie start central London, Finish Picadilly Manchester and the only other places you could get on or off were Birmingham or Crewe) the I wouldn't be surprised if a dual carriageway would be more than enough to cope. And whilst demand for rail journeys has increased over the past couple of decades, this too has largely been for short distance commuting. In fact the D0T's own figures show that the West Coast mainline runs on average at only 32% capacity. Overlay this with the fact that many of the punters who would use HS2 (and certainly at it's likely price point) are not the type of commuters travelling to factories or call centres but business people travelling for meetings - then post pandemic the likely increased use of Zoom (other virtual meeting software is available) means the case for HS2 all but evaporates. In fact the ONLY case for it appears to be "we've started so we'll finish" HS2 is not scheduled to be complete until 2040 (and it will no doubt be late, overbudget and subject to a public enquiry) so for HS2 to therefore be a "start" is simply to late. If we want to tackle these issues the factors like better/greener town planning, aggressive carbon taxing at both corporate and personal level (with generous subsidies and incentives in the opposite direction), working towards shorter supply chains and genuine international co-operation would make much more difference far sooner than this white elephant vanity project.
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Post by ravey123 on Apr 17, 2021 5:43:38 GMT
The case for HS2. SInce the 1980s there has been a dramatic rise in rail travel: www.statista.com/statistics/304957/total-historical-national-rail-passenger-journeys-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/From the beginning of this century, despite continued investment much of the rail network has reached saturation point. On the east coast line for example it is not practicable to make any new connections to the main line as it is fully utilised. I was lucky in circa 2002 to start moving product from Co. Durham to South Wales by rail because the works had an existing connection that was being utilised for traffic to the east coast. Had that not been the case we would have continued to move product by road. Passenger loading is massive, people not having seats at peak time. I have had to stand from Kings Cross to York in the past. Trains can be made longer but are limited by infrastructure such as platforms. Looking forward decades the UK needs to double its rail infrastructure not just to meet future rail passenger demand, but to reduce road traffic. I appreciate HS2 is damaging nature during construction, road traffic pollution is killing the planet and a great many people in urban localities. Electric cars and gas lorries will replace the internal combustion engine in time, but even these will motivate people to "take the train" (an advert that long ceased to be necessary as trains are full!). It is not a question of knocking 30 minutes off travel time. We cannot keep increasing our roads for ever. Many parts of the motorways are 5 or more lanes and at a stand still for hours a week. The A1M has driven huge tracts of motorway through countryside of Yorkshire and Durham in the last two decades, just like HS2, but far more polluting when it is finished. Northallerton is a continuous traffic jamb due to level crossings in the town being shut every 10 minutes. I dread to think what the air quality standards in Northallerton are. In summary we cannot keep giving way and pandering to road traffic. We have to rebuild the Victorian rail network. The alternative is passports to travel in our own country which is silly. The routes from London to Manchester and Leeds are the start and aimed at taking load of the historic east and west rail routes north. Firstly I would agree that we cannot keep pandering to road traffic if we are going to address the environmental issues that face us all but would seriously question how HS2 contributes to that. The average car journey in the UK is just 9.4 miles - so most road journeys are short. The continuous traffic jams you refer to are not people commuting from the centre of London to Manchester, but people commuting from places like Reading to London, Tamworth to Coventry or Sandbach to Worsley and using stretches of the M4/M42/M6 to do so. In fact if you build a road to mirror HS2 (ie start central London, Finish Picadilly Manchester and the only other places you could get on or off were Birmingham or Crewe) the I wouldn't be surprised if a dual carriageway would be more than enough to cope. And whilst demand for rail journeys has increased over the past couple of decades, this too has largely been for short distance commuting. In fact the D0T's own figures show that the West Coast mainline runs on average at only 32% capacity. Overlay this with the fact that many of the punters who would use HS2 (and certainly at it's likely price point) are not the type of commuters travelling to factories or call centres but business people travelling for meetings - then post pandemic the likely increased use of Zoom (other virtual meeting software is available) means the case for HS2 all but evaporates. In fact the ONLY case for it appears to be "we've started so we'll finish" HS2 is not scheduled to be complete until 2040 (and it will no doubt be late, overbudget and subject to a public enquiry) so for HS2 to therefore be a "start" is simply to late. If we want to tackle these issues the factors like better/greener town planning, aggressive carbon taxing at both corporate and personal level (with generous subsidies and incentives in the opposite direction), working towards shorter supply chains and genuine international co-operation would make much more difference far sooner than this white elephant vanity project. That is absolutely bang on the money Beaver.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 17, 2021 6:51:57 GMT
The case for HS2. SInce the 1980s there has been a dramatic rise in rail travel: www.statista.com/statistics/304957/total-historical-national-rail-passenger-journeys-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/From the beginning of this century, despite continued investment much of the rail network has reached saturation point. On the east coast line for example it is not practicable to make any new connections to the main line as it is fully utilised. I was lucky in circa 2002 to start moving product from Co. Durham to South Wales by rail because the works had an existing connection that was being utilised for traffic to the east coast. Had that not been the case we would have continued to move product by road. Passenger loading is massive, people not having seats at peak time. I have had to stand from Kings Cross to York in the past. Trains can be made longer but are limited by infrastructure such as platforms. Looking forward decades the UK needs to double its rail infrastructure not just to meet future rail passenger demand, but to reduce road traffic. I appreciate HS2 is damaging nature during construction, road traffic pollution is killing the planet and a great many people in urban localities. Electric cars and gas lorries will replace the internal combustion engine in time, but even these will motivate people to "take the train" (an advert that long ceased to be necessary as trains are full!). It is not a question of knocking 30 minutes off travel time. We cannot keep increasing our roads for ever. Many parts of the motorways are 5 or more lanes and at a stand still for hours a week. The A1M has driven huge tracts of motorway through countryside of Yorkshire and Durham in the last two decades, just like HS2, but far more polluting when it is finished. Northallerton is a continuous traffic jamb due to level crossings in the town being shut every 10 minutes. I dread to think what the air quality standards in Northallerton are. In summary we cannot keep giving way and pandering to road traffic. We have to rebuild the Victorian rail network. The alternative is passports to travel in our own country which is silly. The routes from London to Manchester and Leeds are the start and aimed at taking load of the historic east and west rail routes north. Firstly I would agree that we cannot keep pandering to road traffic if we are going to address the environmental issues that face us all but would seriously question how HS2 contributes to that. The average car journey in the UK is just 9.4 miles - so most road journeys are short. The continuous traffic jams you refer to are not people commuting from the centre of London to Manchester, but people commuting from places like Reading to London, Tamworth to Coventry or Sandbach to Worsley and using stretches of the M4/M42/M6 to do so. In fact if you build a road to mirror HS2 (ie start central London, Finish Picadilly Manchester and the only other places you could get on or off were Birmingham or Crewe) the I wouldn't be surprised if a dual carriageway would be more than enough to cope. And whilst demand for rail journeys has increased over the past couple of decades, this too has largely been for short distance commuting. In fact the D0T's own figures show that the West Coast mainline runs on average at only 32% capacity. Overlay this with the fact that many of the punters who would use HS2 (and certainly at it's likely price point) are not the type of commuters travelling to factories or call centres but business people travelling for meetings - then post pandemic the likely increased use of Zoom (other virtual meeting software is available) means the case for HS2 all but evaporates. In fact the ONLY case for it appears to be "we've started so we'll finish" HS2 is not scheduled to be complete until 2040 (and it will no doubt be late, overbudget and subject to a public enquiry) so for HS2 to therefore be a "start" is simply to late. If we want to tackle these issues the factors like better/greener town planning, aggressive carbon taxing at both corporate and personal level (with generous subsidies and incentives in the opposite direction), working towards shorter supply chains and genuine international co-operation would make much more difference far sooner than this white elephant vanity project. There is one other case "for" it - lots of public money bunged at the construction sector. But white elephant vanity project is spot on.
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