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Post by independent on Nov 28, 2023 1:33:14 GMT
I think you have spotted a gap in the market, The question is: Is there a market in the gap. I don't think so. I think that they need the male fans. Ideally the men would attend the mens' game one weekend and the womens' game the next. The problem with that is that there is too much football already and would the Women's match clash with the Mens' away game. If more and more children see football on tv and see their parents enjoying it, more and more children will see it as something interesting to try out. Women’s football is probably about a generation away. It’s not going to progress without support in the short term. The financial gains for companies like Sky could be very high, which is the only reason that they care. Kids often gravitate to the hobbies of their parents. Stoke is in the blood. While you haven’t been disparaging here, I find it very confusing why anyone would be disparaging of women’s football. Talking down on it is habit forming and for kids, that could just paint the whole thing in a negative light that reduces participation in the future. If I had a daughter, I’d be talking up women’s football all day. I can’t imagine anything better than sitting down with your child and watching football together, or going to the park with them for a kick about. You may well be right, but unfortunately everyone wants it to become enormously successful immediately and this may not just be impossible but may ultimately be harmful to the growth of Womens' football. I fear that at some point the gap between the expectations and the reality will become so big and obvious that some of the funding necessary for it's success will disappear. Perhaps a period of consolidation is required but this need for new record attendances and constant talking up of it's prospects may not be as helpful as some think. Hopefully the game will become embedded at grassroots level and this may well be the foundation that a really successful Women's game will come from.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 4, 2023 10:26:14 GMT
I can see the attraction of the women's game, especially to families. There is unlikely to be any of the mither that bedevils the men's game, which must make it far more attractive to families, especially those with young girls who no doubt look up to the players they see on the pitch and, in many cases, understandably so.
I can't see myself ever going to a women's game (but then my interest in going to Stoke games is pretty thin too these days!) but, as others have said, perhaps it's a different audience that makes up most of the crowd. That said, I can watch it on tv - England have come on (unfortunate choice of phrase) leaps and bounds in the last five years or so. It's slower for sure, but not that much slower, and there is so much less cynical play, fouling, time wasting etc that you actually feel less irritated by the spectacle imo. (Although the Spanish women's team have clearly embraced the dark arts that their compatriots on the men's side are so adept at).
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 4, 2023 10:38:46 GMT
If more and more children see football on tv and see their parents enjoying it, more and more children will see it as something interesting to try out. Women’s football is probably about a generation away. It’s not going to progress without support in the short term. The financial gains for companies like Sky could be very high, which is the only reason that they care. Kids often gravitate to the hobbies of their parents. Stoke is in the blood. While you haven’t been disparaging here, I find it very confusing why anyone would be disparaging of women’s football. Talking down on it is habit forming and for kids, that could just paint the whole thing in a negative light that reduces participation in the future. If I had a daughter, I’d be talking up women’s football all day. I can’t imagine anything better than sitting down with your child and watching football together, or going to the park with them for a kick about. You may well be right, but unfortunately everyone wants it to become enormously successful immediately and this may not just be impossible but may ultimately be harmful to the growth of Womens' football. I fear that at some point the gap between the expectations and the reality will become so big and obvious that some of the funding necessary for it's success will disappear. Perhaps a period of consolidation is required but this need for new record attendances and constant talking up of it's prospects may not be as helpful as some think. Hopefully the game will become embedded at grassroots level and this may well be the foundation that a really successful Women's game will come from. Girls football is huge from development age upwards. There's nowhere near enough coaches to keep up with demand, our club are unfortunately turning parents away or encouraging them to get their level one coaching qualification so they can assist.................
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Post by Dutchpeter on Dec 4, 2023 12:47:37 GMT
First club that turns out a trans women team wins everything- forever. Goo on Tony you know you’ve got another chapter in you 🤣
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 12:48:36 GMT
I can see the attraction of the women's game, especially to families. There is unlikely to be any of the mither that bedevils the men's game, which must make it far more attractive to families, especially those with young girls who no doubt look up to the players they see on the pitch and, in many cases, understandably so. I can't see myself ever going to a women's game (but then my interest in going to Stoke games is pretty thin too these days!) but, as others have said, perhaps it's a different audience that makes up most of the crowd. That said, I can watch it on tv - England have come on (unfortunate choice of phrase) leaps and bounds in the last five years or so. It's slower for sure, but not that much slower, and there is so much less cynical play, fouling, time wasting etc that you actually feel less irritated by the spectacle imo. (Although the Spanish women's team have clearly embraced the dark arts that their compatriots on the men's side are so adept at). First paragraph is so true. Been to a few internationals (Euros last year/Arnold Clark this year) and just enjoyed the atmosphere, was more fun and generally less…tense…? than men’s games. Tickets generally cheaper too - going to the NL derby at Tottenham Hotspur stadium with a mate in two weeks, £15 each.
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Post by march4 on Dec 4, 2023 13:10:36 GMT
The issue for me is maintaining this excellent start once the novelty wears off. I believe our women’s team had average gates of just over 200 last season and we are well supported compared to the majority of clubs.
Even in the WSL, some of the clubs have average gates of only 1000.
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Post by noustie on Dec 4, 2023 15:08:42 GMT
You may well be right, but unfortunately everyone wants it to become enormously successful immediately and this may not just be impossible but may ultimately be harmful to the growth of Womens' football. I fear that at some point the gap between the expectations and the reality will become so big and obvious that some of the funding necessary for it's success will disappear. Perhaps a period of consolidation is required but this need for new record attendances and constant talking up of it's prospects may not be as helpful as some think. Hopefully the game will become embedded at grassroots level and this may well be the foundation that a really successful Women's game will come from. Girls football is huge from development age upwards. There's nowhere near enough coaches to keep up with demand, our club are unfortunately turning parents away or encouraging them to get their level one coaching qualification so they can assist................. Demand has gone through the roof even up here - read there was 10k girls playing in 2016 and it looks like we'll piss having 35k by 2026. Had to speed up the coaching though so a lot more online courses available now than there was as good money spinner. We've three primary schools and a secondary and have 180 girls playing from 7-16 - insane how much it has taken off and looks to be sticking hopefully.
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Post by noustie on Dec 4, 2023 15:20:17 GMT
First club that turns out a trans women team wins everything- forever. Goo on Tony you know you’ve got another chapter in you 🤣 It's defo a minefield but what I've found really interesting is that in the Soccer camps the coach runs up here the girls u12s regularly beat the lads u12s - the lads never pass whereas the girls first thought is touch n pass for the good players anyway. However, the physical difference between between the older boys and older girls is really beginning to show and if they made it u14s for example the girls would probably get hammered through sheer speed/physicality rather than technical ability. Some of the lassies coming through at grass roots with proper coaching are technically ridiculous - mate's daughter plays u12s for Kilmarnock and they beat one of the best lad's sides in the area 12-0!
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Post by march4 on Dec 4, 2023 15:22:50 GMT
Girls football is huge from development age upwards. There's nowhere near enough coaches to keep up with demand, our club are unfortunately turning parents away or encouraging them to get their level one coaching qualification so they can assist................. Demand has gone through the roof even up here - read there was 10k girls playing in 2016 and it looks like we'll piss having 35k by 2026. Had to speed up the coaching though so a lot more online courses available now than there was as good money spinner. We've three primary schools and a secondary and have 180 girls playing from 7-16 - insane how much it has taken off and looks to be sticking hopefully. And how many had clackers in the 70s or went crazy for the Bay City Rollers? We all hope this is the build up of women’s football as a major sport but none of can say whether or not it is just a passing trend.
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Post by noustie on Dec 4, 2023 15:30:37 GMT
Demand has gone through the roof even up here - read there was 10k girls playing in 2016 and it looks like we'll piss having 35k by 2026. Had to speed up the coaching though so a lot more online courses available now than there was as good money spinner. We've three primary schools and a secondary and have 180 girls playing from 7-16 - insane how much it has taken off and looks to be sticking hopefully. And how many had clackers in the 70s or went crazy for the Bay City Rollers? We all hope this is the build up of women’s football as a major sport but none of can say whether or not it is just a passing trend. In fairness I wore massive trousers like MC Hammer then bowled about with an Oasis haircut trying to swagger looking like a massive bellend but still loved football throughout. There will defo be a point where it plateaus and can't see it getting up to the levels of bloke's football but if we have 25k more girls playing up here you can bet your arse there's suddenly a similar number of dad's giving it time of day. It'll be interesting to see where it is in 10 years time as the kids begin to come through - maybe there is a bit of it being fashionable at the moment but equally I think there's also an element of 'build it and they will come'.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 4, 2023 15:55:34 GMT
Demand has gone through the roof even up here - read there was 10k girls playing in 2016 and it looks like we'll piss having 35k by 2026. Had to speed up the coaching though so a lot more online courses available now than there was as good money spinner. We've three primary schools and a secondary and have 180 girls playing from 7-16 - insane how much it has taken off and looks to be sticking hopefully. And how many had clackers in the 70s or went crazy for the Bay City Rollers? We all hope this is the build up of women’s football as a major sport but none of can say whether or not it is just a passing trend. I don’t think it’s a passing trend. It’s had a long evolution and interest has grown slowly over last 10 years. The only issue for me will be the inevitable usurping of the women’s game by the mighty and righteous of the PL. In 2013 one of the oldest Women’s teams Doncaster Belles were dumped from the WSL1 in preference to an application (not promotion) by Man City, a decision described by many women’s clubs as a "complete farce & morally scandalous". The stupidity of the FAs decision was ridiculed further because the season had already started when Doncaster were relegated to WSL2 in preference to the high & mighty. I really like watching Women’s football and it’s been a breath of fresh air for the sport imo.
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Post by Scouse on Dec 4, 2023 16:27:00 GMT
One question clubs may need to address in the future if there’s a shift in supporters habits is any impact on the men’s game
if the support attracted to the women’s game are existing supporters taking in additional games ( which I suspect is what happens now to a degree ) or entirely new untapped supporters then clubs are likely to welcome this potential new revenue stream ..
However, as the game develops and some people perhaps start making a choice between watching the men’s or the women’s game ( perhaps with a cost difference ) then clubs may not be quite so keen to promote or indeed subsidise the women’s game..
Further , the presence of women and children at a game undoubtedly helps gentrify and calm excesses within the support at the men’s game .. remove that calming effect and it’s only a short trip back to the dark days of the 80s when crowds were predominantly made up of males , many of who saw a day at the match as an excuse to go to war
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Post by independent on Dec 4, 2023 23:54:26 GMT
UK government to back recommendations of Karen Carney-led women's football review The government response comes days after Women's Super League and Women's Championship clubs agreed to form a club-owned organisation to run women's professional league football in England from the 2024-25 season, taking over from the Football Association. The report's recommendations called for: world-leading standards for players, fans, staff, and everyone in the women's game professionalisation across the top two tiers to attract and develop the best players in the world the lack of diversity to be addressed across the women's game, in on-pitch and off-pitch roles the game's governing bodies to work with broadcasters to create a new dedicated time slot "What we need to do is to make sure the women's game is more commercial, that it attracts more broadcast income, because if we do that - and we maintain its professionalism - the women will be enabled to be paid more," she said, adding there was a need to "absolutely narrow" the "massive disparity" in pay between the men's and women's games.
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Post by noustie on Dec 5, 2023 9:42:21 GMT
UK government to back recommendations of Karen Carney-led women's football review The government response comes days after Women's Super League and Women's Championship clubs agreed to form a club-owned organisation to run women's professional league football in England from the 2024-25 season, taking over from the Football Association. The report's recommendations called for: world-leading standards for players, fans, staff, and everyone in the women's game professionalisation across the top two tiers to attract and develop the best players in the world the lack of diversity to be addressed across the women's game, in on-pitch and off-pitch roles the game's governing bodies to work with broadcasters to create a new dedicated time slot "What we need to do is to make sure the women's game is more commercial, that it attracts more broadcast income, because if we do that - and we maintain its professionalism - the women will be enabled to be paid more," she said, adding there was a need to "absolutely narrow" the "massive disparity" in pay between the men's and women's games. Got a bad feeling they're about to blow another league up to be honest. Read some of the Karen Carney stuff and, I genuinely don't mid her as a pundit, but came across as a wish-list from santa rather than a serious pathway. If you told female footballers 10-20 year ago there was going to be an English league where the average wage was £50k and the highest was £250-£350k bet they'd have bitten their fucking hand off. The average is in line with the National League and the higher earners are taking in more than the average League 1 players so who are they wanting to close the gap with? Chelsea WSL squad are probably on the same a year collectively as a single bloke admittedly but they'll be subsidizing it even at that (probably tax deductible too). The premier league sides aren't going to subsidize for long if it starts to cost them money that impacts the blokes side. There's defo an issue at grass routes level as youngsters are probably going to look at the starting salary and think sticking in at university/ trade might be a better route but that's the same in the lads unless you're absolutely shit hot or youve tipped your eggs in one basket. Just screams short termism and a serious case of the 'gimmies' - let it grow of its own accord at a sustainable pace and if a few generations down the line the women are earning as much as the blokes then brilliant but trying to milk a cash cow that doesn't exist at the moment is just going to end in disaster for me.
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Post by independent on Dec 5, 2023 12:48:33 GMT
UK government to back recommendations of Karen Carney-led women's football review The government response comes days after Women's Super League and Women's Championship clubs agreed to form a club-owned organisation to run women's professional league football in England from the 2024-25 season, taking over from the Football Association. The report's recommendations called for: world-leading standards for players, fans, staff, and everyone in the women's game professionalisation across the top two tiers to attract and develop the best players in the world the lack of diversity to be addressed across the women's game, in on-pitch and off-pitch roles the game's governing bodies to work with broadcasters to create a new dedicated time slot "What we need to do is to make sure the women's game is more commercial, that it attracts more broadcast income, because if we do that - and we maintain its professionalism - the women will be enabled to be paid more," she said, adding there was a need to "absolutely narrow" the "massive disparity" in pay between the men's and women's games. Got a bad feeling they're about to blow another league up to be honest. Read some of the Karen Carney stuff and, I genuinely don't mid her as a pundit, but came across as a wish-list from santa rather than a serious pathway. If you told female footballers 10-20 year ago there was going to be an English league where the average wage was £50k and the highest was £250-£350k bet they'd have bitten their fucking hand off. The average is in line with the National League and the higher earners are taking in more than the average League 1 players so who are they wanting to close the gap with? Chelsea WSL squad are probably on the same a year collectively as a single bloke admittedly but they'll be subsidizing it even at that (probably tax deductible too). The premier league sides aren't going to subsidize for long if it starts to cost them money that impacts the blokes side. There's defo an issue at grass routes level as youngsters are probably going to look at the starting salary and think sticking in at university/ trade might be a better route but that's the same in the lads unless you're absolutely shit hot or youve tipped your eggs in one basket. Just screams short termism and a serious case of the 'gimmies' - let it grow of its own accord at a sustainable pace and if a few generations down the line the women are earning as much as the blokes then brilliant but trying to milk a cash cow that doesn't exist at the moment is just going to end in disaster for me. There is, as you say no serious pathway , just a list of aspirations with no indication of how they will be financed. Listening to the politician, the plan appears to be for the new regulator to order the Premier League to pay for the wish list. It seems unlikely that the new structure would have been supported by the clubs unless they were assured of adequate funding. It seems likely that it will cost at least £20m to professionalise the championship not to mention all the other costs.. How Male teams will feel about subsidising Lewes, Durham or London City Lionesses can only be imagined, not to mention Reading. Are these teams to be thrown out of the Championship to make way for bigger clubs, or are the leagues to be enlarged from the present 12 teams in each. I suppose you could levy each Premier club £1m a year to pay for it, But the likes of Arsenal are already putting £6m a year into their womans' team and contributing to pay for the WSL £14m losses plus whatever the Championship is losing each year. I suspect £50/£60m will be taken from the TV money to finance the new set up.The risk is that this may be a figure that will grow. Perhaps Clubs will have to be ordered to have a womens' team, who knows?. Interesting times ahead for the Womens' game.
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Post by noustie on Dec 5, 2023 13:41:51 GMT
Got a bad feeling they're about to blow another league up to be honest. Read some of the Karen Carney stuff and, I genuinely don't mid her as a pundit, but came across as a wish-list from santa rather than a serious pathway. If you told female footballers 10-20 year ago there was going to be an English league where the average wage was £50k and the highest was £250-£350k bet they'd have bitten their fucking hand off. The average is in line with the National League and the higher earners are taking in more than the average League 1 players so who are they wanting to close the gap with? Chelsea WSL squad are probably on the same a year collectively as a single bloke admittedly but they'll be subsidizing it even at that (probably tax deductible too). The premier league sides aren't going to subsidize for long if it starts to cost them money that impacts the blokes side. There's defo an issue at grass routes level as youngsters are probably going to look at the starting salary and think sticking in at university/ trade might be a better route but that's the same in the lads unless you're absolutely shit hot or youve tipped your eggs in one basket. Just screams short termism and a serious case of the 'gimmies' - let it grow of its own accord at a sustainable pace and if a few generations down the line the women are earning as much as the blokes then brilliant but trying to milk a cash cow that doesn't exist at the moment is just going to end in disaster for me. There is, as you say no serious pathway , just a list of aspirations with no indication of how they will be financed. Listening to the politician, the plan appears to be for the new regulator to order the Premier League to pay for the wish list. It seems unlikely that the new structure would have been supported by the clubs unless they were assured of adequate funding. It seems likely that it will cost at least £20m to professionalise the championship not to mention all the other costs.. How Male teams will feel about subsidising Lewes, Durham or London City Lionesses can only be imagined, not to mention Reading. Are these teams to be thrown out of the Championship to make way for bigger clubs, or are the leagues to be enlarged from the present 12 teams in each. I suppose you could levy each Premier club £1m a year to pay for it, But the likes of Arsenal are already putting £6m a year into their womans' team and contributing to pay for the WSL £14m losses plus whatever the Championship is losing each year. I suspect £50/£60m will be taken from the TV money to finance the new set up.The risk is that this may be a figure that will grow. Perhaps Clubs will have to be ordered to have a womens' team, who knows?. Interesting times ahead for the Womens' game. Totally agree mate - the bit that worries me is the increasing reference to 'the product'. I currently enjoy the women's game in international tournaments and the odd club game occasionally on the box but the reason is it isn't 'the product' like the sanitized Premier League is - there's a freshness to it and spontinatey in passages of play rather than churning out memorized training drills for 90 minutes. The other cold harsh truth is as soon as you refer to it as 'a product' it needs to make money off it's own steam. Like you say interesting times and sadly wouldn't be surprised if the league goes pear shaped again quite quickly.
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Post by apb1 on Dec 5, 2023 13:58:15 GMT
Club-owned is such a good recipe. Look at how well the Premier League deals with everything. The FA on the other hand are also idiots.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Dec 5, 2023 22:47:21 GMT
Don't mind women's football at all, quite enjoy it and my other half and daughter are season ticket holders at Man City
However....this England trying to qualify for the Olympics for Great Britain via a Nations League tournament is absolutely fucking nuts.
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Post by noustie on Dec 6, 2023 7:53:25 GMT
Only positive for us was a 15k crowd as we're typically sitting around 8-9k. Think the team are frustrated that attendances have stalled but the team being relatively shit going backwards for 4-5 years doesn't help.
Got some decent young players coming through but really need to qualify for something again to give the whole thing a boost.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 10, 2023 16:35:06 GMT
Full house at The Emirates today.....
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Post by a on Dec 10, 2023 16:55:22 GMT
Full house at The Emirates today..... Wonder what they made on tickets? It’s great selling out but they also need to make enough to finance the side don’t they?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 10, 2023 17:20:05 GMT
Full house at The Emirates today..... Wonder what they made on tickets? It’s great selling out but they also need to make enough to finance the side don’t they? £12 adults £6 concessions general seats. £35 adults £15 concessions corporate. So maybe £600k in ticket sales give or take a few grand? Plus food/drink/merchandise…….
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Post by a on Dec 10, 2023 17:53:16 GMT
Wonder what they made on tickets? It’s great selling out but they also need to make enough to finance the side don’t they? £12 adults £6 concessions general seats. £35 adults £15 concessions corporate. So maybe £600k in ticket sales give or take a few grand? Plus food/drink/merchandise……. Wonder how much profit there is? Obviously they pay much lower wages so I wonder if it’s solvent or losing cash
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insect
Youth Player
Posts: 289
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Post by insect on Dec 10, 2023 17:59:50 GMT
Would have loved to have seen what would have happened if our sorry bunch from yesterday played that Arsenal ladies team !
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 10, 2023 18:06:59 GMT
£12 adults £6 concessions general seats. £35 adults £15 concessions corporate. So maybe £600k in ticket sales give or take a few grand? Plus food/drink/merchandise……. Wonder how much profit there is? Obviously they pay much lower wages so I wonder if it’s solvent or losing cash The outlay in terms of policing the game will be minimal, can’t see how that wouldn’t be profitable…..
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 10, 2023 18:11:38 GMT
Wonder how much profit there is? Obviously they pay much lower wages so I wonder if it’s solvent or losing cash The outlay in terms of policing the game will be minimal, can’t see how that wouldn’t be profitable….. The stadium would shut if those ticket prices were charged for a season
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Post by noustie on Dec 10, 2023 19:30:00 GMT
The outlay in terms of policing the game will be minimal, can’t see how that wouldn’t be profitable….. The stadium would shut if those ticket prices were charged for a season German sides manage in fairness mate - what comes through the turnstiles is peanuts in comparison to the TV money for the blokes.
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Post by noustie on Dec 10, 2023 19:35:39 GMT
Wonder how much profit there is? Obviously they pay much lower wages so I wonder if it’s solvent or losing cash The outlay in terms of policing the game will be minimal, can’t see how that wouldn’t be profitable….. The wage bill is £4.3m too so they mustn't be far off profitable. Just need to have patience and chill out chasing wages comparable to the blokes. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64735639
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 14:00:03 GMT
Went to the North London Derby last weekend. Was in the away end with the Arsenal fans (with a mate) and honestly it was so fun atmosphere wise. More chants than we have at Stoke too haha!
The most smash and grab performance you’ll ever see from Spurs mind, weathered 31 shots against and won 1-0 on the break.
Was overshadowed by this in the second half though, happened about 20 metres from us - credit to the fans for stopping the game and screaming the medics over:
That aside, for £15 a ticket, a good experience - would definitely recommend people giving WSL a go sometime if they’re unsure.
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Post by apb1 on Dec 20, 2023 14:05:16 GMT
Went to the North London Derby last weekend. Was in the away end with the Arsenal fans (with a mate) and honestly it was so fun atmosphere wise. More chants than we have at Stoke too haha! The most smash and grab performance you’ll ever see from Spurs mind, weathered 31 shots against and won 1-0 on the break. Was overshadowed by this in the second half though, happened about 20 metres from us - credit to the fans for stopping the game and screaming the medics over: That aside, for £15 a ticket, a good experience - would definitely recommend people giving WSL a go sometime if they’re unsure. I was in the same bit, nice ground! My daughter is an Arsenal women fan and I've had some great times at games with her and her mates (also at the Euros) but she thinks I tainted the result with my Stoke City curse. Can't argue really, whenever we go to the Stoke games we lose or at best draw...
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