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Post by Gods on Nov 19, 2023 22:24:51 GMT
This one has taken some unexpected turns, I thought it was a good news story đ
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 19, 2023 22:31:44 GMT
This one has taken some unexpected turns, I thought it was a good news story đ If anything a crowd of 45,000 highlights that women's football is getting less popular apparently
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 19, 2023 22:35:33 GMT
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Post by stoke1989 on Nov 19, 2023 22:35:35 GMT
Stick a bloke in goal at both ends and every match would end 0-0. I'm not sure a bloke could pick this fucker out.
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Post by Robo10 on Nov 19, 2023 22:56:02 GMT
They should be using 21x7 goals, slightly smaller pitches (as for u14s) and a size 4 ball - bar the odd proper tall athletic type they are the size of 13/14 year lads
(Even then one of mine was 6ft2 in size 13 boots)
The FA/IFAB is shit hot on kids playing on appropriate pitches, balls, goals for kids, but make the women play on blokes pitches
Also, it can be poor quality wise, it can equally be good - it will never have the power and pace of the blokes game. But it can have a lot of skill (as does the cricket), but also a lot of mistakes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2023 8:09:26 GMT
I've already explained my point. Just sounded like a bit of a rant if I'm honest. But hey ho........ No rant mate, just getting my point across in a blunt way. Obviously not blunt enough for some
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Post by stokiedan17 on Nov 20, 2023 8:26:50 GMT
Stick a bloke in goal at both ends and every match would end 0-0. I'm not sure a bloke could pick this fucker out. Iâve just watched that about 15 times đ
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Post by apb1 on Nov 20, 2023 8:52:27 GMT
They should be using 21x7 goals, slightly smaller pitches (as for u14s) and a size 4 ball - bar the odd proper tall athletic type they are the size of 13/14 year lads (Even then one of mine was 6ft2 in size 13 boots) The FA/IFAB is shit hot on kids playing on appropriate pitches, balls, goals for kids, but make the women play on blokes pitches Also, it can be poor quality wise, it can equally be good - it will never have the power and pace of the blokes game. But it can have a lot of skill (as does the cricket), but also a lot of mistakes. Men should change their goals and pitch sizes as the average man is taller now, and athletes are much fitter, than when footie started, maybe? Or we could just leave it alone? And anyone who saw Bonham and Flint clown show at Reading plus countless other debacles in recent years, could easily deride the men's game in similar terms. The OP - yes, 45,000 is a great crowd, but it's fair to say attendances are spread in a very uneven way. Due to being banned for so long, the depth of the women's game is much less (not in playing terms as it's massive now), but as clubs in the pyramid having local fan bases. So the big 4-5 clubs will attract big support, when at the big stadia, while we probably only get a hundred or so. What's our record crowd for the women's team, about 1200 I think? Will be interesting to see if we can match or beat that for the next game v Forest in December: tickets.stokecityfc.com/en-GB/categories/Women's-Tickets
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 20, 2023 9:00:51 GMT
Stick a bloke in goal at both ends and every match would end 0-0. I'm not sure a bloke could pick this fucker out. Confused by the absolute lack of power from the shot I imagine
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 20, 2023 10:26:24 GMT
They should be using 21x7 goals, slightly smaller pitches (as for u14s) and a size 4 ball - bar the odd proper tall athletic type they are the size of 13/14 year lads (Even then one of mine was 6ft2 in size 13 boots) The FA/IFAB is shit hot on kids playing on appropriate pitches, balls, goals for kids, but make the women play on blokes pitches Also, it can be poor quality wise, it can equally be good - it will never have the power and pace of the blokes game. But it can have a lot of skill (as does the cricket), but also a lot of mistakes. I enjoyed the Angel City FC games I went to. The pace & power levels are different but I found it interesting. E.g. if one team plays a high line, then there's generally a little more time for runners to get onto a through ball. That just pushes slightly different tactics, which I found interesting. For all the worries about the goals being too big the scorelines look a lot like men's football. Most games don't end 0-0 or something like 9-7. I aren't too bothered either way, not a big follower of women's sports so I'm fine letting the real fans decide what to do.
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Post by RF10 on Nov 20, 2023 13:28:30 GMT
It's effectively a cheap entertainment day out for kids isn't it?
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Post by noustie on Nov 20, 2023 13:33:59 GMT
It's effectively a cheap entertainment day out for kids isn't it? I think they've stumbled on their market by accident - the idea that middle aged women would turn into football fans by watching women play football never really seemed realistic. It's dads, and mums too, whose daughter plays where this is going to grow. Can't see it getting to the blokes level but for the prices good day out for families like football was when I were a lad!!
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Post by apb1 on Nov 20, 2023 13:39:04 GMT
It's effectively a cheap entertainment day out for kids isn't it? I think they've stumbled on their market by accident - the idea that middle aged women would turn into football fans by watching women play football never really seemed realistic. It's dads, and mums too, whose daughter plays where this is going to grow. Can't see it getting to the blokes level but for the prices good day out for families like football was when I were a lad!! A lot of young women also like sport and are trying to make the matchday exciting and atmospheric, not just focussed on parents with children. Arsenal (yikes) are leading the way, I reckon they get the biggest average attendances too. www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/nov/07/the-atmosphere-means-everything-the-growth-of-womens-football-fan-culture
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Post by RF10 on Nov 20, 2023 13:46:36 GMT
It's effectively a cheap entertainment day out for kids isn't it? I think they've stumbled on their market by accident - the idea that middle aged women would turn into football fans by watching women play football never really seemed realistic. It's dads, and mums too, whose daughter plays where this is going to grow. Can't see it getting to the blokes level but for the prices good day out for families like football was when I were a lad!! I would have thought the percentage of kids attending women's matches rather than men's is much higher. The only time I've known my mates go is when they've taken their kids and Mrs.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 20, 2023 13:55:35 GMT
I think they've stumbled on their market by accident - the idea that middle aged women would turn into football fans by watching women play football never really seemed realistic. It's dads, and mums too, whose daughter plays where this is going to grow. Can't see it getting to the blokes level but for the prices good day out for families like football was when I were a lad!! I would have thought the percentage of kids attending women's matches rather than men's is much higher. The only time I've known my mates go is when they've taken their kids and Mrs. You could tell by the booing of a Man City.player, the few minutes I caught that were few male voices joining in unless a lot of Danny La Rue types in attendance
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 20, 2023 15:03:53 GMT
It's effectively a cheap entertainment day out for kids isn't it? I think they've stumbled on their market by accident - the idea that middle aged women would turn into football fans by watching women play football never really seemed realistic. It's dads, and mums too, whose daughter plays where this is going to grow. Can't see it getting to the blokes level but for the prices good day out for families like football was when I were a lad!! Exactly, the women seem to enjoy playing the game much more than the men! There's still a naivety about it which is endearing. There are signs this is changing a little with 'professionalism' but no where near the same level as the men!
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 20, 2023 16:25:46 GMT
Stick a bloke in women's tennis and the bloke wins, stick a bloke in women's rugby and the bloke wins, the list goes on ...... I real feel you have missed the point here. We need to stop comparing men's to women's sports, I never heard anyone say "Paula Ratcliff would not have won that if a bloke was running" it's obvious that males generally have a physiological advantage, but in football we seem obsessed by the comparisons. Just enjoy the fact in WSL, you are watching world class athletes as we do in the Olympics, and in Stoke terms, being semi pro you would be watching a lower level but still people who are fully committed to their sports. That said, I will be honest and say I have never seen Stoke ladies, or any semi/professional female team play. I donât think thatâs the point heâs making. Correct me if Iâm wrong but I think heâs saying the games would be more watchable if the âauthoritiesâ implemented things which would make that happen. Women are smaller and less athletic generally, itâs time time cater for that. The game and other sports would be better for it. It seems to be a case of âwe can be just as good as the menâ. They simply canât and thatâs not sexism itâs logic. If they made these subtle changes all womenâs sport would be far more watchable. Saw some highlights at half time during Coventry vs Stoke I think it was, they showed their womenâs highlights and the amount of long range floaty goals was ridiculous as the keepers simply arenât cut out size wise to stop it happening. I love watching womenâs footie âŚ.none of the diving, cheating, surrounding the ref, feigned injury and all the rest of the bollox that emanates from nancies men playing football. The problem with changing pitches and goal posts to suit the female physique is that it would still attract the misogynist comments regarding it being easier physically etc etc. Roll on Sarina Wiegman being appointed full England menâs team coach, now that would bring out the sexists of the football world out in force.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 20, 2023 16:40:37 GMT
I donât think thatâs the point heâs making. Correct me if Iâm wrong but I think heâs saying the games would be more watchable if the âauthoritiesâ implemented things which would make that happen. Women are smaller and less athletic generally, itâs time time cater for that. The game and other sports would be better for it. It seems to be a case of âwe can be just as good as the menâ. They simply canât and thatâs not sexism itâs logic. If they made these subtle changes all womenâs sport would be far more watchable. Saw some highlights at half time during Coventry vs Stoke I think it was, they showed their womenâs highlights and the amount of long range floaty goals was ridiculous as the keepers simply arenât cut out size wise to stop it happening. I love watching womenâs footie âŚ.none of the diving, cheating, surrounding the ref, feigned injury and all the rest of the bollox that emanates from nancies men playing football. The problem with changing pitches and goal posts to suit the female physique is that it would still attract the misogynist comments regarding it being easier physically etc etc. Roll on Sarina Wiegman being appointed full England menâs team coach, now that would bring out the sexists of the football world out in force. I saw a bit of the game at Stoke. Ridiculous dive, was it v Luxembourg.The game I saw before that, was either England or the opposition got a second yellow for diving. As for the woman being appointed men's coach, does she have a CV in the men's game to warrant that or because she's female ? Don't know anything about her to be honest but you can't appoint someone because it would be making a statement when there are better candidates with experience in that field.
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Post by independent on Nov 20, 2023 17:21:46 GMT
It's effectively a cheap entertainment day out for kids isn't it? I think they've stumbled on their market by accident - the idea that middle aged women would turn into football fans by watching women play football never really seemed realistic. It's dads, and mums too, whose daughter plays where this is going to grow. Can't see it getting to the blokes level but for the prices good day out for families like football was when I were a lad!! I think that is one of the problems they face. They really need to decide who their audience is, and what the product is that they are selling ? 1. At the moment you have cheap prices which are attracting small quiet crowds who will never make the game financially sustainable. Chelsea have put their prices up this season and the effect on their attendances will be closely watched. 2.You have 4 top Clubs who attract 70% of the fans at the moment. These are copying the Premier League model and hope to dominate European football by signing up top foreign players. I would be surprised if even half of their players are English. This is really a problem for the Women's game where you probably have only 325 professional players in all. It is shocking to see the number of players who were released by Championship (2nd tier) clubs last season. This is beginning to look like a tenuous and very poorly paid profession for all except top 4 clubs who are being carried by their Men's teams. Lewes are a club who epitomise the opposite of Premier League Football. They are a community based club who pay their Male and Female players the same. This is how their CEO described the problem. If womenâs football ends up locked in a toxifying spiral of spending and profit, an arms race to the top, Lewes will simply be unable to compete. âOne of the ironies is that the better womenâs football gets, the more dependent it becomes on menâs football to finance that ambition,â says Maggie Murphy, CEO of Lewes FC. âYou canât just assume that more money is a good thing. If itâs not paired with good governance and equal decision-making and diversity, then Iâm not sure it necessarily is. If the assumption is that more money at any cost is good, weâll start to see some dodgy investing that could tear at the fabric of the culture weâve built.â
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Post by a on Nov 20, 2023 17:25:03 GMT
It's effectively a cheap entertainment day out for kids isn't it? At ÂŁ15 a pop Iâd say so! Thatâs adults too isnât it? ÂŁ6-7 for kids is a very enticing price.
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Post by scfc1863 on Nov 20, 2023 17:57:11 GMT
I think they've stumbled on their market by accident - the idea that middle aged women would turn into football fans by watching women play football never really seemed realistic. It's dads, and mums too, whose daughter plays where this is going to grow. Can't see it getting to the blokes level but for the prices good day out for families like football was when I were a lad!! Exactly, the women seem to enjoy playing the game much more than the men! There's still a naivety about it which is endearing. There are signs this is changing a little with 'professionalism' but no where near the same level as the men! I noticed a bit of the men's 'professionalism' in the game which is a shame. It happened in the second half when Man City scored their first (I think) and the left winger for City was disrespectfully giving the home fans the big shush in the goal celebrations. Sad really, I'm not sure what the kids made of it... probably all doing it now in the playground .
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 20, 2023 18:14:54 GMT
I love watching womenâs footie âŚ.none of the diving, cheating, surrounding the ref, feigned injury and all the rest of the bollox that emanates from nancies men playing football. The problem with changing pitches and goal posts to suit the female physique is that it would still attract the misogynist comments regarding it being easier physically etc etc. Roll on Sarina Wiegman being appointed full England menâs team coach, now that would bring out the sexists of the football world out in force. I saw a bit of the game at Stoke. Ridiculous dive, was it v Luxembourg.The game I saw before that, was either England or the opposition got a second yellow for diving. As for the woman being appointed men's coach, does she have a CV in the men's game to warrant that or because she's female ? Don't know anything about her to be honest but you can't appoint someone because it would be making a statement when there are better candidates with experience in that field. No CV in the menâs game donât be daft but Sarina Wiegman had a successful playing career in Netherlands and USA where she also got her coaching badge. She managed several Dutch womenâs teams winning the league title and cup twice. At international level she led Netherlands to European Championship win 2017 & runner up in 2019 World Cup. She did the same with England in 2021 Euros and this years World Cup. Statistically as International manager she has achieved well over 70% wins rate with both England & Netherlands and she has been voted FIFA best womenâs coach 3 times and EUFA womenâs Coach of the year twice. So far from just, as you say making a statement by appointing her because she is a woman, imo she has more than enough credentials to do it. But itâs probably the fear of her being successful & misogyny of players that will prevent it happening.
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Post by independent on Nov 20, 2023 18:51:33 GMT
You can't compare being successful in an undeveloped Women's Football system with Men's football. It is like comparing Amateur and Professional Boxing. It will be interesting to see how successful Emma Hayes and Sarina Wiegman are over the next few years. Either of these could possibly be successful in the Men's game but it would be a foolhardy club who would gamble on it. We all know that if they proved unsuccessful then the usual excuses would be rolled out.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 20, 2023 18:55:36 GMT
You can't compare being successful in an undeveloped Women's Football system with Men's football. It is like comparing Amateur and Professional Boxing. It will be interesting to see how successful Emma Hayes and Sarina Wiegman are over the next few years. Either of these could possibly be successful in the Men's game but it would be a foolhardy club who would gamble on it. We all know that if they proved unsuccessful then the usual excuses would be rolled out. The thing is the womens game is being pushed far too hard, let it run its natural course. If itâs good enough people will watch
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Post by independent on Nov 20, 2023 19:04:41 GMT
I saw a bit of the game at Stoke. Ridiculous dive, was it v Luxembourg.The game I saw before that, was either England or the opposition got a second yellow for diving. As for the woman being appointed men's coach, does she have a CV in the men's game to warrant that or because she's female ? Don't know anything about her to be honest but you can't appoint someone because it would be making a statement when there are better candidates with experience in that field. No CV in the menâs game donât be daft but Sarina Wiegman had a successful playing career in Netherlands and USA where she also got her coaching badge. She managed several Dutch womenâs teams winning the league title and cup twice. At international level she led Netherlands to European Championship win 2017 & runner up in 2019 World Cup. She did the same with England in 2021 Euros and this years World Cup. Statistically as International manager she has achieved well over 70% wins rate with both England & Netherlands and she has been voted FIFA best womenâs coach 3 times and EUFA womenâs Coach of the year twice. So far from just, as you say making a statement by appointing her because she is a woman, imo she has more than enough credentials to do it. But itâs probably the fear of her being successful & misogyny of players that will prevent it happening. You do realise that 30% of the players in the recent World Cup Finals were Amateurs. The standard of the Women's game in Europe has improved over the last few years, but it is still poor. Before that, it was abysmal, with 9-0 games occurring on a regular basis. If you think that any Club Chairman would not appoint a women that he thought would bring success because he was afraid of her being successful, then I am afraid you should see the men in the White coats.
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Post by noustie on Nov 20, 2023 19:13:33 GMT
I think they've stumbled on their market by accident - the idea that middle aged women would turn into football fans by watching women play football never really seemed realistic. It's dads, and mums too, whose daughter plays where this is going to grow. Can't see it getting to the blokes level but for the prices good day out for families like football was when I were a lad!! I think that is one of the problems they face. They really need to decide who their audience is, and what the product is that they are selling ? 1. At the moment you have cheap prices which are attracting small quiet crowds who will never make the game financially sustainable. Chelsea have put their prices up this season and the effect on their attendances will be closely watched. 2.You have 4 top Clubs who attract 70% of the fans at the moment. These are copying the Premier League model and hope to dominate European football by signing up top foreign players. I would be surprised if even half of their players are English. This is really a problem for the Women's game where you probably have only 325 professional players in all. It is shocking to see the number of players who were released by Championship (2nd tier) clubs last season. This is beginning to look like a tenuous and very poorly paid profession for all except top 4 clubs who are being carried by their Men's teams.                     Lewes are a club who epitomise the opposite of Premier League Football. They are a community based club who pay their Male and Female players the same. This is how their CEO described the problem.        If womenâs football ends up locked in a toxifying spiral of spending and profit, an arms race to the top, Lewes will simply be unable to compete. âOne of the ironies is that the better womenâs football gets, the more dependent it becomes on menâs football to finance that ambition,â says Maggie Murphy, CEO of Lewes FC. âYou canât just assume that more money is a good thing. If itâs not paired with good governance and equal decision-making and diversity, then Iâm not sure it necessarily is. If the assumption is that more money at any cost is good, weâll start to see some dodgy investing that could tear at the fabric of the culture weâve built.â Yeah the wedge is defo a double edged sword. There's defo an element of some wanting boot the arse out of it whilst the going is good without regard for whether it's sustainable to future generations. The US system is financially crippled I think especially after going our early in the World Cup.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Nov 20, 2023 19:16:22 GMT
No CV in the menâs game donât be daft but Sarina Wiegman had a successful playing career in Netherlands and USA where she also got her coaching badge. She managed several Dutch womenâs teams winning the league title and cup twice. At international level she led Netherlands to European Championship win 2017 & runner up in 2019 World Cup. She did the same with England in 2021 Euros and this years World Cup. Statistically as International manager she has achieved well over 70% wins rate with both England & Netherlands and she has been voted FIFA best womenâs coach 3 times and EUFA womenâs Coach of the year twice. So far from just, as you say making a statement by appointing her because she is a woman, imo she has more than enough credentials to do it. But itâs probably the fear of her being successful & misogyny of players that will prevent it happening. You do realise that 30% of the players in the recent World Cup Finals were Amateurs. The standard of the Women's game in Europe has improved over the last few years, but it is still poor. Before that, it was abysmal, with 9-0 games occurring on a regular basis. If you think that any Club Chairman would not appoint a women that he thought would bring success because he was afraid of her being successful, then I am afraid you should see the men in the White coats. I believe a female coach will manage a menâs side soon (EFL/step 1). I also believe that the female coach will spring from within the menâs game and not cross over from the womenâs game as itâs an inferior grade as it stands presently. The irony is that female coaches may well be more interested in a career in the menâs game than the womenâs.
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Post by noustie on Nov 20, 2023 19:17:46 GMT
You can't compare being successful in an undeveloped Women's Football system with Men's football. It is like comparing Amateur and Professional Boxing. It will be interesting to see how successful Emma Hayes and Sarina Wiegman are over the next few years. Either of these could possibly be successful in the Men's game but it would be a foolhardy club who would gamble on it. We all know that if they proved unsuccessful then the usual excuses would be rolled out. Not convinced by Emma Hayes - gives off Breedon Rogers vibes. Wiegman looks good though. I'd say if a bloke's team get it right they could be onto something. Old skool managers say they can't hairdryer treatment anymore so mothering them might get something different out of them.
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Post by independent on Nov 20, 2023 19:18:29 GMT
You can't compare being successful in an undeveloped Women's Football system with Men's football. It is like comparing Amateur and Professional Boxing. It will be interesting to see how successful Emma Hayes and Sarina Wiegman are over the next few years. Either of these could possibly be successful in the Men's game but it would be a foolhardy club who would gamble on it. We all know that if they proved unsuccessful then the usual excuses would be rolled out. The thing is the womens game is being pushed far too hard, let it run its natural course. If itâs good enough people will watch I'm inclined to believe it is overhyped. One person has told us that she believes that it could be a Billion ÂŁ business in 10 years. In 2021/22 the WSL had an income of ÂŁ32 million and lost another ÂŁ14m. A total of ÂŁ46m. The Men's clubs provided approx ÂŁ28m of this, with gates providing about ÂŁ580 thousand. That is a long way from a Billion Pound business. We keep hearing that it needs more investment. How much more? ÂŁ100m, ÂŁ200 or does it really need a blank check?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 20, 2023 19:18:42 GMT
You can't compare being successful in an undeveloped Women's Football system with Men's football. It is like comparing Amateur and Professional Boxing. It will be interesting to see how successful Emma Hayes and Sarina Wiegman are over the next few years. Either of these could possibly be successful in the Men's game but it would be a foolhardy club who would gamble on it. We all know that if they proved unsuccessful then the usual excuses would be rolled out. Not convinced by Emma Hayes - gives off Breedon Rogers vibes. Wiegman looks good though. I'd say if a bloke's team get it right they could be onto something. Old skool managers say they can't hairdryer treatment anymore so mothering them might get something different out of them. Are you suggesting a little bitty at half time?
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