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Post by desman2 on Nov 22, 2023 18:21:34 GMT
Heres the rather lame excuse of a light show at that game
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 22, 2023 18:30:43 GMT
No CV in the men’s game don’t be daft but Sarina Wiegman had a successful playing career in Netherlands and USA where she also got her coaching badge. She managed several Dutch women’s teams winning the league title and cup twice. At international level she led Netherlands to European Championship win 2017 & runner up in 2019 World Cup. She did the same with England in 2021 Euros and this years World Cup. Statistically as International manager she has achieved well over 70% wins rate with both England & Netherlands and she has been voted FIFA best women’s coach 3 times and EUFA women’s Coach of the year twice. So far from just, as you say making a statement by appointing her because she is a woman, imo she has more than enough credentials to do it. But it’s probably the fear of her being successful & misogyny of players that will prevent it happening. So she has absolute zero experience in the men's game and she should be considered for the biggest job in the country Run the daft comment by me again ! But it’s ok for men to coach women’s teams (and fail) as Gary Neville did before Serena Wiegman took over. How much experience did he have of managing a women’s football team I wonder Not as daft as you think…… www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38207135/fa-consider-wiegman-southgate-england-successor#
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2023 18:32:59 GMT
So she has absolute zero experience in the men's game and she should be considered for the biggest job in the country Run the daft comment by me again ! But it’s ok for men to coach women’s teams (and fail) as Gary Neville did before Serena Wiegman took over. How much experience did he have of managing a women’s football team I wonder Gary Neville has never managed in womens football
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Post by independent on Nov 22, 2023 18:34:57 GMT
I'm sure they would benefit as they are already complaining about their workload,fatigue and ensuing injuries. If they had their own pitches, I think it would already have happened. As you almost say " Let them develop their own game and stop slavishly apeing the Men's Game". The FA said " It was unsuitable for Women and that apparently some of the proceeds were being stolen and not applied to the designated Charities". The Men gave been moaning about work load fatigue and injuries for decades.Perhaps they too would benefit from smaller pitches? Not that I remember. You obviously havent noticed that the women play 22 league games, the men play 38, almost 75% more. I also haven't noticed the ladies going on preseason tours of far flung lands.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 22, 2023 18:52:28 GMT
The Men gave been moaning about work load fatigue and injuries for decades.Perhaps they too would benefit from smaller pitches? Not that I remember. You obviously havent noticed that the women play 22 league games, the men play 38, almost 75% more. I also haven't noticed the ladies going on preseason tours of far flung lands. Ok - just a couple of decades then. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/4045713.stmAnd given the England men's captain earns x10 more in a week than the England Ladies captain does in a year perhaps they ought to put a shift in. Anyway - as the objective of most top clubs, UEFA and FIFA is maximising revenue by expanding tournaments and 'opening markets' in overseas territories with daft tours I really do think THEY could help themselves by reducing pitch sizes. It would also have the added benefit of allowing extra seats to be incuded in stadia without building bigger stands. Win/Win.
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Post by werrington on Nov 22, 2023 19:59:04 GMT
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Post by independent on Nov 22, 2023 20:02:27 GMT
Not that I remember. You obviously havent noticed that the women play 22 league games, the men play 38, almost 75% more. I also haven't noticed the ladies going on preseason tours of far flung lands. Ok - just a couple of decades then. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/4045713.stmAnd given the England men's captain earns x10 more in a week than the England Ladies captain does in a year perhaps they ought to put a shift in.Anyway - as the objective of most top clubs, UEFA and FIFA is maximising revenue by expanding tournaments and 'opening markets' in overseas territories with daft tours I really do think THEY could help themselves by reducing pitch sizes. It would also have the added benefit of allowing extra seats to be incuded in stadia without building bigger stands. Win/Win. An easy target, he wasn't called Arsene Whinger for nothing. He obviously was concerned about fatigue as he used to play his kids in the League Cup. Is it any wonder the men are tired, carrying all that extra cash. When is the last time that you saw a woman execute a standing jump? Their physiology is different, not inferior but different. When you consider it is likely that 5 players in any one game are menstruating, it is obviously more physically challenging for women.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2023 20:11:59 GMT
Kirky is enough to make me think again I’ll be honest
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Post by independent on Nov 22, 2023 20:17:31 GMT
Why anyone in the public eye would ever go on Social Media is a mystery to me, unless they are members of The U.K. Masochist's Society. I have always held the view that X etc. should be legally obliged to reveal the identity of any poster on demand/request. One guy I read of, was harassing female Journalists. It turned out to be a 40 year old male who hadn't left his house in over 14 years, and they really had nothing to worry about. But the women didn't know that. The present anonymity just leads to a toxic environment.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 22, 2023 20:18:00 GMT
Ok - just a couple of decades then. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/4045713.stmAnd given the England men's captain earns x10 more in a week than the England Ladies captain does in a year perhaps they ought to put a shift in.Anyway - as the objective of most top clubs, UEFA and FIFA is maximising revenue by expanding tournaments and 'opening markets' in overseas territories with daft tours I really do think THEY could help themselves by reducing pitch sizes. It would also have the added benefit of allowing extra seats to be incuded in stadia without building bigger stands. Win/Win. An easy target, he wasn't called Arsene Whinger for nothing. He obviously was concerned about fatigue as he used to play his kids in the League Cup. Is it any wonder the men are tired, carrying all that extra cash. When is the last time that you saw a woman execute a standing jump? Their physiology is different, not inferior but different. When you consider it is likely that 5 players in any one game are menstruating, it is obviously more physically challenging for women. Today actually. As a regular gym user it's not an uncommon occurence. Regarding your touching concern for the trials of the "weaker sex" (and accompanying gynacological insight) you could say the same for marathon running but I'm not hearing any calls for shortening the distance for "the ladies". So if the womens game want to play on the same size pitches as the men that's up to the as far as I'm concerned. If they're not bothered about it and feel they can cope with it physically what's it got to do with you or me?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2023 20:25:21 GMT
An easy target, he wasn't called Arsene Whinger for nothing. He obviously was concerned about fatigue as he used to play his kids in the League Cup. Is it any wonder the men are tired, carrying all that extra cash. When is the last time that you saw a woman execute a standing jump? Their physiology is different, not inferior but different. When you consider it is likely that 5 players in any one game are menstruating, it is obviously more physically challenging for women. Today actually. As a regular gym user it's not an uncommon occurence. Regarding your touching concern for the trials of the "weaker sex" (and accompanying gynacological insight) you could say the same for marathon running but I'm not hearing any calls for shortening the distance for "the ladies". So if the womens game want to play on the same size pitches as the men that's up to the as far as I'm concerned. If they're not bothered about it and feel they can cope with it physically what's it got to do with you or me? You’re right it is up to them. But they’re not cut out for it. They’re absolutely knackered after 70 minutes and it just turns into keystone cops. It doesn’t sound like it but I’m all for the women’s game growing and getting a bigger audience. It’s not gonna happen under the current parameters. I know what it is, it’s stubbornness. They probably feel it’s an excuse to be paid less if changes were made. And they’d be correct, but at the expense of growing the game I’d say it’s not wise. I’ll give it 5 years max if it stays in its current form
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Post by independent on Nov 22, 2023 20:59:45 GMT
An easy target, he wasn't called Arsene Whinger for nothing. He obviously was concerned about fatigue as he used to play his kids in the League Cup. Is it any wonder the men are tired, carrying all that extra cash. When is the last time that you saw a woman execute a standing jump? Their physiology is different, not inferior but different. When you consider it is likely that 5 players in any one game are menstruating, it is obviously more physically challenging for women. Today actually. As a regular gym user it's not an uncommon occurence. Regarding your touching concern for the trials of the "weaker sex" (and accompanying gynacological insight) you could say the same for marathon running but I'm not hearing any calls for shortening the distance for "the ladies".So if the womens game want to play on the same size pitches as the men that's up to the as far as I'm concerned. If they're not bothered about it and feel they can cope with it physically what's it got to do with you or me? Of course you could, but Marathon runners are Amateurs and don't have to perform at a particular time and day,if they don't want to. They also run at a slower pace to enable them to finish the race, so it is not a very good comparison. Apparently a lot of the Women are bothered about it ,and you are the one mentioning "the weaker sex" not me.. By the time the WSL kicked off Stoke City had already played 10 games, or almost half a WSL season. It has everything to do with the quality of the game and the spectator's enjoyment of same. But keep ignoring the obvious.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 22, 2023 21:23:15 GMT
Today actually. As a regular gym user it's not an uncommon occurence. Regarding your touching concern for the trials of the "weaker sex" (and accompanying gynacological insight) you could say the same for marathon running but I'm not hearing any calls for shortening the distance for "the ladies".So if the womens game want to play on the same size pitches as the men that's up to the as far as I'm concerned. If they're not bothered about it and feel they can cope with it physically what's it got to do with you or me? Of course you could, but Marathon runners are Amateurs and don't have to perform at a particular time and day,if they don't want to. They also run at a slower pace to enable them to finish the race, so it is not a very good comparison. Apparently a lot of the Women are bothered about it ,and you are the one mentioning "the weaker sex" not me.. By the time the WSL kicked off Stoke City had already played 10 games, or almost half a WSL season. It has everything to do with the quality of the game and the spectator's enjoyment of same. But keep ignoring the obvious. Amateur? Never heard of Paula Radcliffe? Pffft,!
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Post by independent on Nov 22, 2023 21:29:56 GMT
Who pays her to run at 50 years of age? And how many more Professional Marathon runners?
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Post by independent on Nov 22, 2023 21:37:14 GMT
Marathon running is dominated by runners from North East Africa as far as I remember. Some of them travel around the world competing to win cash in the Bigger better known events.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 22, 2023 21:59:25 GMT
Marathon running is dominated by runners from North East Africa as far as I remember. Some of them travel around the world competing to win cash in the Bigger better known events. So? Are they shorter events? As you apparently don't know that women can do a static jump I'm not sure advice on a blueprint for women's football is necessarily the most robust. As I keep saying - it's their game - let them get on with it. But for some reason known only to yourself you seem to be unable to resist the temptation to impose your superior wisdom.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 22, 2023 22:15:08 GMT
But it’s ok for men to coach women’s teams (and fail) as Gary Neville did before Serena Wiegman took over. How much experience did he have of managing a women’s football team I wonder Gary Neville has never managed in womens football Oops soz it’s the other one Phil Neville
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Post by independent on Nov 22, 2023 22:23:01 GMT
Marathon running is dominated by runners from North East Africa as far as I remember. Some of them travel around the world competing to win cash in the Bigger better known events. So? Are they shorter events? As you apparently don't know that women can do a static jump I'm not sure advice on a blueprint for women's football is necessarily the most robust. As I keep saying - it's their game - let them get on with it. But for some reason known only to yourself you seem to be unable to resist the temptation to impose your superior wisdom. still waiting to be informed who is paying Paula Radcliffe to run at the age of 50. Perhaps you should change your name to Seyless?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 23, 2023 8:26:06 GMT
So? Are they shorter events? As you apparently don't know that women can do a static jump I'm not sure advice on a blueprint for women's football is necessarily the most robust. As I keep saying - it's their game - let them get on with it. But for some reason known only to yourself you seem to be unable to resist the temptation to impose your superior wisdom. still waiting to be informed who is paying Paula Radcliffe to run at the age of 50. Perhaps you should change your name to Seyless? At what point did I say she was still earning? She is nevertheless a famous Britin who got paid good money in appearance and endorsements for running marathons over a long career ....... it being the same distance as men on every occasion Tell you what. Why don't you go and Mansplain your thoughts on womens football and menstruation to Emma Hayes - see how you get on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 8:38:04 GMT
Kirk is pretty fit to be fair mate
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 8:42:47 GMT
It was Phil Neville. Can't believe you're actually being serious. Managing a national women's team to success is night and day different to managing the England mens team, the gulf in class and everything else that surrounds it, for example the pressure of the job, is on a different planet to what Wiegman has ever experienced.
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Post by idle on Nov 23, 2023 8:44:49 GMT
Well yeah. An average UK male was 5'9" in 2012, while an average woman was 5'1 1⁄2". When the goals are 22' wide and 8' tall, this means that the goals are almost 10% bigger for women than for men adjusted for height. If a male GK had the same size goal it would have been almost 24' x 8'8". I always said women should play on a slightly smaller pitch (90% size) and with slightly smaller goals. The football women's tough fightThe logical extension of that is that as the average height of males increases goals and pitches should get bigger. New Stadia shoukd take this into account in the build. 1. If you take any change to its "logical" extreme it gets absurd. It's not logical to think like this. Tuning is essential for performance in almost everything. Bigger goals was discussed during the "boring eighties", especially in Italy and Spain. It's not a new idea. 2. No need to build new stadiums, most support changing pitch size (as we did under TP), and we would only need 4 ekstra attachment points for the goals. And I can't say I like your accusations in your other posts. What the fuck do you know about what we think about womens football? Discussing and proposing changes to the setup of games isn't misogynist in itself. Other sports do it all the time. Just because you don't like the ideas doesn't mean others don't want womens footie to succeed! Just like it's good to discuss if the definition of succeeding is becoming a PL franchise-like TV sport. I don't.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 23, 2023 9:08:06 GMT
The logical extension of that is that as the average height of males increases goals and pitches should get bigger. New Stadia shoukd take this into account in the build. 1. If you take any change to its "logical" extreme it gets absurd. It's not logical to think like this. Tuning is essential for performance in almost everything. Bigger goals was discussed during the "boring eighties", especially in Italy and Spain. It's not a new idea. 2. No need to build new stadiums, most support changing pitch size (as we did under TP), and we would only need 4 ekstra attachment points for the goals. And I can't say I like your accusations in your other posts. What the fuck do you know about what we think about womens football? Discussing and proposing changes to the setup of games isn't misogynist in itself. Other sports do it all the time. Just because you don't like the ideas doesn't mean others don't want womens footie to succeed! Just like it's good to discuss if the definition of succeeding is becoming a PL franchise-like TV sport. I don't. Not sure I've 'accused' anyone of anything. My main point is that I think that historically men have damaged the womens game - most specifically the FA ban. I believe therefore as the womens game now develops it should left largely to the women to develop it. Whilst I'm sure many comments about the game from men are well intentioned an awful lot are both disrespectful and patronising as this board bears witness. And I'm not sure I like that.
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Post by noustie on Nov 23, 2023 10:00:38 GMT
1. If you take any change to its "logical" extreme it gets absurd. It's not logical to think like this. Tuning is essential for performance in almost everything. Bigger goals was discussed during the "boring eighties", especially in Italy and Spain. It's not a new idea. 2. No need to build new stadiums, most support changing pitch size (as we did under TP), and we would only need 4 ekstra attachment points for the goals. And I can't say I like your accusations in your other posts. What the fuck do you know about what we think about womens football? Discussing and proposing changes to the setup of games isn't misogynist in itself. Other sports do it all the time. Just because you don't like the ideas doesn't mean others don't want womens footie to succeed! Just like it's good to discuss if the definition of succeeding is becoming a PL franchise-like TV sport. I don't. Not sure I've 'accused' anyone of anything. My main point is that I think that historically men have damaged the womens game - most specifically the FA ban. I believe therefore as the womens game now develops it should left largely to the women to develop it. Whilst I'm sure many comments about the game from men are well intentioned an awful lot are both disrespectful and patronising as this board bears witness. And I'm not sure I like that. One of the areas I find patronising is that women should have smaller pitches/ goals. When the laws were ratified 100 years ago the average height of blokes was shorter and they were no where near as athletic. I've banged on about the average height of male goal keepers being 5 foot 8 at the time and the average height now of female goal keepers being 5 foot 8 so if anything should change it should be the blokes. Don't think sex is really the key issue though - women have blown up a few of their own leagues trying to do too much too soon whilst blokes have been arseholes as evidenced by the FA historically and whatever the fuck the Spaniards were playing at. Getting competent folk in is probably the key issue rather than well meaning amateurs or folk out of their depth - pay peanuts get monkeys essentially. I've never really been convinced by Emma Hayes as anyone could have won the WSL with Chelsea for years - Weigman though strikes me as someone I'd hitch my wagon to if wanted shit done.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 23, 2023 11:11:49 GMT
It was Phil Neville. Can't believe you're actually being serious. Managing a national women's team to success is night and day different to managing the England mens team, the gulf in class and everything else that surrounds it, for example the pressure of the job, is on a different planet to what Wiegman has ever experienced. The FA would consider an application though.
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Post by idle on Nov 23, 2023 11:34:09 GMT
1. If you take any change to its "logical" extreme it gets absurd. It's not logical to think like this. Tuning is essential for performance in almost everything. Bigger goals was discussed during the "boring eighties", especially in Italy and Spain. It's not a new idea. 2. No need to build new stadiums, most support changing pitch size (as we did under TP), and we would only need 4 ekstra attachment points for the goals. And I can't say I like your accusations in your other posts. What the fuck do you know about what we think about womens football? Discussing and proposing changes to the setup of games isn't misogynist in itself. Other sports do it all the time. Just because you don't like the ideas doesn't mean others don't want womens footie to succeed! Just like it's good to discuss if the definition of succeeding is becoming a PL franchise-like TV sport. I don't. Not sure I've 'accused' anyone of anything. My main point is that I think that historically men have damaged the womens game - most specifically the FA ban. I believe therefore as the womens game now develops it should left largely to the women to develop it. Whilst I'm sure many comments about the game from men are well intentioned an awful lot are both disrespectful and patronising as this board bears witness. And I'm not sure I like that. The thing is, these are two different topics. One is being left alone to develop the game on their own. I'm all for that, and thus highly critical of the "all PL teams must have a womens team"-regulation that seems to be coming from the FA. The FA have done FA for women, unlike other nations FAs (Holland, Scandinavia, US, Japan), and I'm not sure that commercialization on the back of the mens teams is the best way forward. They'll also be owned by some of the biggest arseholes in the world, like Saudis and other oil sheiks, American Equity firms and straight up mafia from Italy and South America. The "smaller goals&pitch" part is just a discussion of what could up the tempo of the game, something that some of us actually watching womens football seems to think is the biggest difference. The best women are technically more gifted than the Stoke City men, but they also get more space and time to perform the dribbles. Could it be because the women aren't that drilled in tactics yet? Sure, but that's also kinda patronising. My point is that it's an honest discussion, or at least meant to be. Because the difference is there, it's not something we make up.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 23, 2023 12:09:00 GMT
Not sure I've 'accused' anyone of anything. My main point is that I think that historically men have damaged the womens game - most specifically the FA ban. I believe therefore as the womens game now develops it should left largely to the women to develop it. Whilst I'm sure many comments about the game from men are well intentioned an awful lot are both disrespectful and patronising as this board bears witness. And I'm not sure I like that. The thing is, these are two different topics. One is being left alone to develop the game on their own. I'm all for that, and thus highly critical of the "all PL teams must have a womens team"-regulation that seems to be coming from the FA. The FA have done FA for women, unlike other nations FAs (Holland, Scandinavia, US, Japan), and I'm not sure that commercialization on the back of the mens teams is the best way forward. They'll also be owned by some of the biggest arseholes in the world, like Saudis and other oil sheiks, American Equity firms and straight up mafia from Italy and South America. The "smaller goals&pitch" part is just a discussion of what could up the tempo of the game, something that some of us actually watching womens football seems to think is the biggest difference. The best women are technically more gifted than the Stoke City men, but they also get more space and time to perform the dribbles. Could it be because the women aren't that drilled in tactics yet? Sure, but that's also kinda patronising. My point is that it's an honest discussion, or at least meant to be. Because the difference is there, it's not something we make up. And an honest discussion is fine. I'm all for that. However for it to be meaningful it should include the stakeholders - not just take place amongst middle aged men. Which is all you're really ever going to get on The Oatcake.
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Post by independent on Nov 23, 2023 16:02:17 GMT
The thing is, these are two different topics. One is being left alone to develop the game on their own. I'm all for that, and thus highly critical of the "all PL teams must have a womens team"-regulation that seems to be coming from the FA. The FA have done FA for women, unlike other nations FAs (Holland, Scandinavia, US, Japan), and I'm not sure that commercialization on the back of the mens teams is the best way forward. They'll also be owned by some of the biggest arseholes in the world, like Saudis and other oil sheiks, American Equity firms and straight up mafia from Italy and South America. The "smaller goals&pitch" part is just a discussion of what could up the tempo of the game, something that some of us actually watching womens football seems to think is the biggest difference. The best women are technically more gifted than the Stoke City men, but they also get more space and time to perform the dribbles. Could it be because the women aren't that drilled in tactics yet? Sure, but that's also kinda patronising. My point is that it's an honest discussion, or at least meant to be. Because the difference is there, it's not something we make up. And an honest discussion is fine. I'm all for that. However for it to be meaningful it should include the stakeholders - not just take place amongst middle aged men.
Which is all you're really ever going to get on The Oatcake.That is probably true, but not all of them want Women's football to fail. Women in England had just as much time as American women did in America, to popularise the game in England(without any interferance fron men), and they failed to do so. Hopefully,getting away from the clutches of the FA will enable them to prosper. But ,as has already been said by a woman, The more successful the WSL becomes,The more cash it needs from the Men's clubs to continue. That is not being Independent. The best way forward is not obvious,so I would love to see a debate by women only on what is the best method to adopt. You said: "It's time we stopped patronising them and allowed them to develop their own game as they see fit", you should have added " and let the men just shut up and keep paying for it." Then we would all know where we stand.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 23, 2023 17:09:55 GMT
And an honest discussion is fine. I'm all for that. However for it to be meaningful it should include the stakeholders - not just take place amongst middle aged men.
Which is all you're really ever going to get on The Oatcake.That is probably true, but not all of them want Women's football to fail. Women in England had just as much time as American women did in America, to popularise the game in England(without any interferance fron men), and they failed to do so. Hopefully,getting away from the clutches of the FA will enable them to prosper. But ,as has already been said by a woman, The more successful the WSL becomes,The more cash it needs from the Men's clubs to continue. That is not being Independent. The best way forward is not obvious,so I would love to see a debate by women only on what is the best method to adopt. You said: "It's time we stopped patronising them and allowed them to develop their own game as they see fit", you should have added " and let the men just shut up and keep paying for it." Then we would all know where we stand. Not really. The game got off the ground in the US because it was not competing against a hegemomy of mens football as ingrained as it is in Europe and the UK. It was a college sport of high participation and for a lot 'soccer' was seen primarily as a women's game. As for finance most businesses require to secure external funding from somewhere at some point and indeed without money from the Premier League a lot of clubs at all levels in rhe men's game down to grassroots would fail (and some still do). I agree regarding the debate and any 'Dragons Den' pitch must accept investment will come with some strings attached. But there's a huge difference between that and telling women how to cope with their periods or changing the rules of their game. I'm sure that at the end of the day you would like to see the game flourish - as would I - the difference of opinion just seems to be about the level of self determination.
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Post by independent on Nov 23, 2023 18:58:22 GMT
I have never told women how to cope with their periods, but if 5 members of one team are on their period and none of the opposition are. then I think there may be a significant difference.Anyway it is a minor issue. American women had to compete with(and still do) Baseball, American Football, Basketball And College Football, all of which are huge TV sports in the U.S. So I think that they had their own challenges.Regarding finance, I agree that any start up needs funding from outside. But normally they would have a business plan with reasonable targets to be met and a proposed breakeven date, no matter how distant. Missing these targets because of external events would not be a problem, but there would be a path way described in their prospectus. Personally I don't claim to know the best way forward and I suspect that there is no consenus within the Women's game either about how to proceed. I really think that we need a European wide strategy to embed the women's game. At the moment all I see is a bunch of "Busy Fools" rushing around to no great purpose. I hope that the women involved will be hard on the marketing people who seem to call the shots and insist that they produce actual results for the game. I must admit that I am not as optimistic as I would like to be regarding the future. Perhaps we are all trying to move forward too fast and maybe we need to give it time to grow organically.
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