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Post by robstokie on Feb 22, 2022 13:05:16 GMT
If MON was given his cards at the end of the season? (He will be here until end of the season whatever happens)
For me, I am personally in two minds about whether I would keep MON anyway - he performed a miracle keeping us up after Nutty Nathan turned us into a laughing stock, has been more pro-active at promoting the kids than any other manager in our recent history, admittedly partially through circumstance, and has managed to cut the wage budget whilst picking off the mercenaries and bad apples one by one. But questions do have to be asked about his recruitment - bringing in old pros with a history of injury problems instead of younger players who are making their name in league's 1 and 2 (yes, we save on a transfer fee outlay, but the wages said free agents demand, over the course of a contract would end up equalling the value of a fee and wages for those younger players I suspect), his insistence on a back 3 for the best part of a season and a half, even though we don't have the personnel that suit it as well as trying to play out from the back even though we get caught out time and again, the lack of proactive game management - how often do we bring on a non-injury related sub when we are struggling, and how often do we change shape if we are struggling? And his personal preference for certain 'established' players who do not contribute over younger players who maybe lack experience, but have that edge that the older pros lack (Allen is not the player he once was, and looked all at sea as a holding mid with a back 3, hopefully Baker and Thompson/ new centre mid will be the base moving forward, Chester is a liability - slow, weak, positionally suspect - shouldn't Will Forrester be ahead of him in the pecking order?, Clucas ghosts through games that ain't against his former clubs and lacks the temperament I suspect to put together a consistent run of performances, Fletcher, as much as I like him, is a busted flush nowadays - lacks mobility and has lost his edge, surely we should be blooding Tezgel (as a focal point) and DWP ahead of him and Sawyer's too - lightweight, lazy and dithers on the ball, killing all momentum by passing backwards or by losing the ball in silly areas).
If we were to part ways though I would be tempted to have a punt on one of Sean Dyche or Dean Smith if their respective clubs come down this season, as both have a record of building a side to both go up and stay up in the premier League. If, in the unlikely scenario that both sides stay up, I would be tempted to look at Daniel Farke (knows how to succeed in this league, plus with a point to prove in the Prem, them upstairs would not even consider due to his nationality) David Wagner or even Neil Critchley of Blackpool or Mark Robins at Coventry but there's always the risk that they could do another Nutty Nath (ironically, if Nutty Nath hadn't come to Stoke, he would almost certainly be my number one target given that David Moyes is out our reach). At a push, even Steve Bruce would be acceptable if it doesn't work out at West Brom. What worries me however is that our board have a long history of picking underwhelming candidates from a very small pool of underwhelming yesterday's men - I'm talking the likes of a Lee Johnson, Chris Coleman or Steve McClaren or go for the Continuity candidate, with shades of Chic Bates - Dean Holden, who seems to me to be a natural number 2 or a coach rather than a manager in his own right.
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Post by Simon Drainrod on Feb 22, 2022 14:08:44 GMT
I am replying because I think your efforts deserve a reply.
MON the man for me. Don’t think any manager could have done any better from the absolute shit show we were less than 3 seasons ago.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 22, 2022 14:19:07 GMT
O'Neill has signed younger players too. Wilmot, Brown and Doughty, for example. Baker depending on your point of view of what's young, but he's certainly not old. Doughty hasn't worked out yet but there's time. What were believed to be the best players available at the time will have been signed. Jagielka obviously isn't one for the future but is what we needed in January.
No manager is perfect and I wouldn't want any other manager than O'Neill going into next season.
All the names you've listed whether in a positive or negative sense are much of a muchness to me. Dyche has been at Burnley for so long that who's to say he'll be a success anywhere else?
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Post by stokemaro on Feb 22, 2022 14:31:19 GMT
Give MON another season.
There has been progress each year with him. Yes, he has his faults with a lack of subs to change a game but let him have the reset this summer.
From next season onwards it will be entirely his team and that will be the time to judge him.
Fingers crossed we can have just one season without an injury crisis. Who knows what could have happened last season or this if it wasn't for the loss of so many key players.
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 22, 2022 14:37:34 GMT
I hear Gerhard Struber is an outstanding manager.
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Post by march4 on Feb 22, 2022 14:43:53 GMT
I am replying because I think your efforts deserve a reply. MON the man for me. Don’t think any manager could have done any better from the absolute shit show we were less than 3 seasons ago. That was years ago. Relegation form for a huge chunk of last season and the pattern repeated this season. Time for a change. |
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 22, 2022 14:44:40 GMT
I keep thinking this season is the modern equivalent to the "Lee Hendrie season", next year will be the promotion season.
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Post by yyy on Feb 22, 2022 15:02:59 GMT
Needs another season, got to be top 6 though with this squad now, just needs to sort the bottom half of the pitch out. We need to get bidace on loan for a full season.
He won't be going anywhere because of the job he has done clearing the decks and to be fair it was a big job, got to show we're contenders though next season.
I've said Allardyce before now out of the British candidates available today but today I think I would go with Alex Neill, took Norwich up playing attacking football and that for me is our strength in the squad, attack.
Wouldn't be adverse to see Charlie Adam given a shot or Jimmy Floyd
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Post by jokker on Feb 22, 2022 15:03:19 GMT
I'm fully behind the manager even though I'm probably among his hardest critics, in other threads.
I wouldn't want him to stay because he saved our skin once. That's in the past, it may have saved him at some stage last season where things were going badly, though I doubt that. He hasn't made as much progress as some supporters want nor has he progressed as much as he would like.
What the board want they keep entirely to themselves. As long as it stays that way then O'Neill has the most secure position in English football. Even more secure than Pep and Klopp, because there's always a chance that a bigger club is going to prise one or the other away at some point.
I know some people hate explanations, mistaking them for excuses, but there are perfectly valid reasons for where we are and why we are not in the top 2 on a consistent basis. The fact that we have been in that elusive spot more than once shows that we can get there again. Can we stay there? You never know because the three soon to be relegated teams might come down each with a group of players that will stay together and infrastructure inplace, and that would make them hard to beat. But if, say, Newcastle go down, there will be hell breaking loose. They will have money to buy 20 good players but that doesn't mean they will have a good team. They could go down next season too.
The biggest reason we must keep faith is that the board has allowed him to invest in players of his choice in the window. Although the fully fit nucleus of the current team are still players signed by Hughes and Jones, the squad at large has now been signed by him, and it just doesn't make sense to sign that many players and then dispense with the manager that signed with them. Unless he loses the dressing room or we go on a 15 game losing streak, he should be given time to mould the team for the next 2 seaons ahead, maybe even longer.
If we did let him go, it should be because a much better club wanted him, and he wanted to join them. I don't think that's going to happen because the working conditions that O'Neill has here he will almost certainly not have at another club - except maybe Burnley, if the position became available.
But if he does leave we will have to start all over again. It's taken MON the best part of 2 years to rid the club of 20+ no good players, and that sort of process will go on repeat, if he leaves. The next manager will fail and leaves/gets sacked, and all in all, it could take five years before we become a promotion chasing team again, unless of course it's promotion from L1 we're looking at.
Better to stay with O'Neill.
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Post by gawa on Feb 22, 2022 15:03:26 GMT
If Dyce was to leave Burnley I’d think he’d be aiming higher than Stoke. Has done a great job there and could do well at another premiership club.
Anyway I’m still a MON faithful for now. I think a lot of our fans struggle to grasp the magnitude of the job he took on still. Even your own post there talking about reducing the wage bill and bringing in old pros in the same sentence. We’re still shopping in the reduced aisle but the recipes MON serves up are still being compared to Waitrose.
It’s a compliment that so many expect us to do so well with a reduced wage bill compared to the expectations on previous managers who spent much more money and regressed the squad further. Yet the one man who has progressed the club on scraps is the one who can’t be trusted with a budget apparently.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 22, 2022 15:58:52 GMT
I’d keep MON for at least another season but if not I’d go for Frank Schmidt.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2022 16:14:57 GMT
Changed too many times. He's doing ok and had to come through horrendous injury last. Been great with youngsters
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Post by gawa on Feb 22, 2022 16:30:06 GMT
I’d keep MON for at least another season but if not I’d go for Frank Schmidt. He’s German too! Hyaduck would love this guy! |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 22, 2022 17:11:35 GMT
I really don't have any appetite for another change at all. I'd rather MON kept doing the things he's doing well but got better at the stuff he's fairly bad at.
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 22, 2022 17:20:27 GMT
He should get next season at least, and deserves the chance to build a squad with something approaching a clean canvas.
However, if he handed his notice in tomorrow I would approach Rooney or Robins.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2022 17:32:38 GMT
I really don't have any appetite for another change at all. I'd rather MON kept doing the things he's doing well but got better at the stuff he's fairly bad at. Totally how I see it Toxie. I think without the injuries we'd be seriously challenging now |
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Post by jokker on Feb 22, 2022 18:10:41 GMT
He should get next season at least, and deserves the chance to build a squad with something approaching a clean canvas. However, if he handed his notice in tomorrow I would approach Rooney or Robins. They'd probably be smart enough to turn you down. What then? |
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 22, 2022 18:33:02 GMT
He should get next season at least, and deserves the chance to build a squad with something approaching a clean canvas. However, if he handed his notice in tomorrow I would approach Rooney or Robins. They'd probably be smart enough to turn you down. What then? Would they piss turn Stoke down. |
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 22, 2022 18:37:40 GMT
He should get next season at least, and deserves the chance to build a squad with something approaching a clean canvas. However, if he handed his notice in tomorrow I would approach Rooney or Robins. Rooney turned down Everton. What makes you think he'd come to Stoke? MoN is staying. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 22, 2022 18:39:28 GMT
He should get next season at least, and deserves the chance to build a squad with something approaching a clean canvas. However, if he handed his notice in tomorrow I would approach Rooney or Robins. Rooney turned down Everton. What makes you think he'd come to Stoke? MoN is staying. Rooney probably thought “fuck that” about going Everton, thinking it was too big a step. He’s quite bright for a granny shagger😉 |
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Post by jokker on Feb 22, 2022 18:47:56 GMT
He should get next season at least, and deserves the chance to build a squad with something approaching a clean canvas. However, if he handed his notice in tomorrow I would approach Rooney or Robins. Rooney turned down Everton. What makes you think he'd come to Stoke? MoN is staying. And Robins already left Coventry once, regretted it, came back, and has now been manager there for several sseasons, and like Rooney has fought well against the odds. It would take something very special for him to leave again, and we're not it. |
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Post by thevoid on Feb 22, 2022 18:56:09 GMT
I'd like us to move away from the likes of Dyche, but that's a pipe dream under our current ownership. He'd be a Coates wet dream!
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Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 22, 2022 19:27:42 GMT
I’d keep MON for at least another season but if not I’d go for Frank Schmidt. He’s German too! Hyaduck would love this guy! I doubt he’d swap possible promotion to the Bundesliga for mid-table in the English 4th division. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 22, 2022 19:31:12 GMT
A new manager is always a risk no matter what names get banded about. They have to fit the profile of the club, it’s a rarity they actually do. Someone like Klopp has been perfect for Liverpool for example but Mourinho at Man United was supposed to be their return to glory. It’s all about getting the right fit and you won’t know that for a good while. It’s a Tombola in the main.
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 22, 2022 19:35:46 GMT
Rooney
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Post by Boothen on Feb 22, 2022 19:37:50 GMT
Glenn Hoddle
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Post by nottinghamstokie on Feb 22, 2022 19:46:06 GMT
If MON was given his cards at the end of the season? (He will be here until end of the season whatever happens) For me, I am personally in two minds about whether I would keep MON anyway - he performed a miracle keeping us up after Nutty Nathan turned us into a laughing stock, has been more pro-active at promoting the kids than any other manager in our recent history, admittedly partially through circumstance, and has managed to cut the wage budget whilst picking off the mercenaries and bad apples one by one. But questions do have to be asked about his recruitment - bringing in old pros with a history of injury problems instead of younger players who are making their name in league's 1 and 2 (yes, we save on a transfer fee outlay, but the wages said free agents demand, over the course of a contract would end up equalling the value of a fee and wages for those younger players I suspect), his insistence on a back 3 for the best part of a season and a half, even though we don't have the personnel that suit it as well as trying to play out from the back even though we get caught out time and again, the lack of proactive game management - how often do we bring on a non-injury related sub when we are struggling, and how often do we change shape if we are struggling? And his personal preference for certain 'established' players who do not contribute over younger players who maybe lack experience, but have that edge that the older pros lack (Allen is not the player he once was, and looked all at sea as a holding mid with a back 3, hopefully Baker and Thompson/ new centre mid will be the base moving forward, Chester is a liability - slow, weak, positionally suspect - shouldn't Will Forrester be ahead of him in the pecking order?, Clucas ghosts through games that ain't against his former clubs and lacks the temperament I suspect to put together a consistent run of performances, Fletcher, as much as I like him, is a busted flush nowadays - lacks mobility and has lost his edge, surely we should be blooding Tezgel (as a focal point) and DWP ahead of him and Sawyer's too - lightweight, lazy and dithers on the ball, killing all momentum by passing backwards or by losing the ball in silly areas). If we were to part ways though I would be tempted to have a punt on one of Sean Dyche or Dean Smith if their respective clubs come down this season, as both have a record of building a side to both go up and stay up in the premier League. If, in the unlikely scenario that both sides stay up, I would be tempted to look at Daniel Farke (knows how to succeed in this league, plus with a point to prove in the Prem, them upstairs would not even consider due to his nationality) David Wagner or even Neil Critchley of Blackpool or Mark Robins at Coventry but there's always the risk that they could do another Nutty Nath (ironically, if Nutty Nath hadn't come to Stoke, he would almost certainly be my number one target given that David Moyes is out our reach). At a push, even Steve Bruce would be acceptable if it doesn't work out at West Brom. What worries me however is that our board have a long history of picking underwhelming candidates from a very small pool of underwhelming yesterday's men - I'm talking the likes of a Lee Johnson, Chris Coleman or Steve McClaren or go for the Continuity candidate, with shades of Chic Bates - Dean Holden, who seems to me to be a natural number 2 or a coach rather than a manager in his own right. Warner would be as discountable as Farke given his nationality and has flopped since leaving Huddersfield And have you not noticed that Nutty Nath has Luton higher in the table than us ?? |
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Post by foxysgloves on Feb 22, 2022 19:51:05 GMT
I wouldn’t trust Rooney with my Subbuteo set let alone my football club.
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Post by a on Feb 22, 2022 19:53:51 GMT
My worry is that if we changed manager, we’d have another 2-3 seasons of the manager putting his stamp on the squad, changing the system and the players which could blow up in our faces. Then we are 3 years down the line and could be in a worse position.
It could work though and see us promoted.
It’s a risk.
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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 22, 2022 19:55:16 GMT
I personally don’t think O’Neil is the right guy to take us up. I do hope he is to prove me wrong
I think he’s made us too inconsistent to challenge even next season unless he learns from his mistakes
He has made a lot of bad decisions in the last calendar year. .
Give mon till end of next season and I think we will have given him a far crack.
It has been unlucky for the last 2 seasons we have had our best player injured for a lengthy period but we cannot use that as a excuse.
No one else out there any better at the minute maybe the ex WBA manager
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