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Post by stokief on Aug 13, 2018 11:16:07 GMT
As I said, I was never a fan of his but of course, we had a few moments in the sun. What gets me is why it was allowed to continue. He had 'previous' didn't he and surely people in and around saw what started to happen? We could see it from the outside couldn't we?! baffling beyond belief. Funny how Walters, Bardsley and Whelan were shipped out. The ones who, even if their best days were behind them had true grit and fighting spirit and must've (like Clint) been infuriated by some of the goings on.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 11:18:21 GMT
As I said, I was never a fan of his but of course, we had a few moments in the sun. What gets me is why it was allowed to continue. He had 'previous' didn't he and surely people in and around saw what started to happen? We could see it from the outside couldn't we?! baffling beyond belief. Funny how Walters, Bardsley and Whelan were shipped out. The ones who, even if their best days were behind them had true grit and fighting spirit and must've (like Clint) been infuriated by some of the goings on. Bardsley we probably should have kept but Walters and Whelan left because they wanted to play more and we couldn't guarantee that. Would either have made a difference? Bit harsh to say 'a few moments in the sun', they were in fact our best league finishes for 40 years.
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Post by stokief on Aug 13, 2018 11:23:34 GMT
They may've made a difference in the dressing room and whilst i appreciate you don't keep people for that purpose alone we lost our backbone and work ethic. Look at the likes of Jese, Choupo,Zouma. All thought it was a bit of a laugh I guess. Truth is, he'd built a team where the majority of his signings didn't seem to care and the Pulis 'originals' who probably did were reduced to being the minority voice.
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Post by Davef on Aug 13, 2018 11:29:48 GMT
The Stoke City Board sacked Mark Hughes and we are now in the Championship. The Southampton Board appointed Mark Hughes and they are still in the PL. Which club got it right? You're trying to come across as the voice of reason Geoff, but you're way wide of the mark here. Hughes could've helped his cause massively by building a team that was good enough to beat League 2 Coventry in the FA Cup. He couldn't manage that, as he couldn't manage a Premier League team to victory over several other lower league clubs and with his team in the bottom three of the league rightly lost his job. Had we beaten Coventry, then in all likelihood he'd have kept his job, and who knows, he may well have been able to win the three or four extra points to have kept us up, we'll never know. But what then? There was no conceivable way the club could've kept him on as the manager and though we'd still have been in the Premier League we'd have had massive, massive problems that would've needed millions to have put right. A new manager would've had no chance picking up the pieces of the mess Mark Hughes left in that league, especially working for a board who wouldn't/couldn't back him with the huge funds it would've needed.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 11:40:04 GMT
They may've made a difference in the dressing room and whilst i appreciate you don't keep people for that purpose alone we lost our backbone and work ethic. Look at the likes of Jese, Choupo,Zouma. All thought it was a bit of a laugh I guess. Truth is, he'd built a team where the majority of his signings didn't seem to care and the Pulis 'originals' who probably did were reduced to being the minority voice. They were still part of the teams being thrashed the previous season though, so whatever impact they were having was minimal. I accept that we lost sight of the importance of characters and didn’t do enough to replace them.
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Post by stokief on Aug 13, 2018 11:44:15 GMT
They may've made a difference in the dressing room and whilst i appreciate you don't keep people for that purpose alone we lost our backbone and work ethic. Look at the likes of Jese, Choupo,Zouma. All thought it was a bit of a laugh I guess. Truth is, he'd built a team where the majority of his signings didn't seem to care and the Pulis 'originals' who probably did were reduced to being the minority voice. They were still part of the teams being thrashed the previous season though, so whatever impact they were having was minimal. I accept that we lost sight of the importance of characters and didn’t do enough to replace them. True, hence why I always felt strongly that MH should've been replaced before the season started.The rot had set in. Maybe it was already too late to sort the mess out. Just as it was for Rednapp at QPR.Trouble is, writing all over the wall in bold print with bells on yet it was allowed to continue.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 11:52:48 GMT
Arnie saw he was at a mickey mouse club run by risk averse; small time, smalltown fuckin idiots top to bottom THEN, he and his brother went for the money .They saw it first and are entirely blameless and in turn were treated like shit when returning. I just hope Mark Hughes gets a commensuate basin full of abuse and vitriol when that particular incompetent, joyless, arrogant, club wrecking cock gets to return. And went to another Micky Mouse club... Entirely blameless my arse So mr toxic with utmost respect, which mickey mouse club is still in the premiership looking upwardly mobile, whilst the other its on its arse,riddled with no mark players and seemingly going fucking nowhere at the bottom of the championship ? Jeeeeez
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Post by Gods on Aug 13, 2018 12:01:01 GMT
Yes, certainly not saying he was unsackable, just not when we did it, with no sensible alternative. I think we still might have found a sensible alternative if we didn’t have all the imagination and open mindedness of a UKIP-voting woodlouse. I believe Mr Coates is a 'Remainer' and said so in the lions den of the Potteries on Question Time! It does make it all the more strange that he has clearly made up his mind that he has no patience for listening to some twinkly, well-groomed European man at his weekly 'Manager Debrief' babbling on at him in Spanglish !
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 12:03:21 GMT
And went to another Micky Mouse club... Entirely blameless my arse So mr toxic with utmost respect, which mickey mouse club is still in the premiership looking upwardly mobile, whilst the other its on its arse,riddled with no mark players and seemingly going fucking nowhere at the bottom of the championship ? Jeeeeez In what way are they looking 'upwardly mobile'? I repeat, at the time when he signed for them they had a manager every bit the joke ours was and less secure in his job, the fans were in open rebellion over the ground and the owners continued to undermine their manager, makig grandiose noises about statement signings then bringing in a host of names, many of which he hadn't especially wanted on huge wages. They were still in the relegation mix with three weeks to go. They had a better season than us. Whoopee shit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 12:18:18 GMT
Upwardly mobile , what makes them look that way ? Errr their manager ? For starters
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Post by superheroantonius on Aug 13, 2018 12:23:28 GMT
TP left a great squad behind ... players who play to win ... Huth Nzonzi, Whelan ...
And Hughes , Scholes and Carto wrecked the club ...they turned us into the natural home of players like berahino , jesse , imbula ...lads who want the money but not the football
Because I am looking at things from the outside, I don't know exactly who did what in the Hughes / scholes/ carto shambles , but between them they wrecked our club and it is outrageous that two of them are still here
I think TP will get boro promoted
Give him time and I am expecting Hughes to relegate Southampton
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 12:24:43 GMT
Upwardly mobile , what makes them look that way ? Errr their manager ? For starters The one who 1) Wasn't their manager when Arnautovic signed for them 2) Played a ridiculously high defensive line against the fastest front three in the league ?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 12:26:01 GMT
TP left a great squad behind ... players who play to win ... Huth Nzonzi, Whelan ... And Hughes , Scholes and Carto wrecked the club ...they turned us into the natural home of players like berahino , jesse , imbula ...lads who want the money but not the football Because I am looking at things from the outside, I don't know exactly who did what in the Hughes / scholes/ carto shambles , but between them they wrecked our club and it is outrageous that two of them are still here I think TP will get boro promoted Give him time and I am expecting Hughes to relegate Southampton Again, really not quite the full story. There's a fairly hefty middle chunk you're missing out.
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 13, 2018 12:34:06 GMT
The Stoke City Board sacked Mark Hughes and we are now in the Championship. The Southampton Board appointed Mark Hughes and they are still in the PL. Which club got it right? You're trying to come across as the voice of reason Geoff, but you're way wide of the mark here. Hughes could've helped his cause massively by building a team that was good enough to beat League 2 Coventry in the FA Cup. He couldn't manage that, as he couldn't manage a Premier League team to victory over several other lower league clubs and with his team in the bottom three of the league rightly lost his job. Had we beaten Coventry, then in all likelihood he'd have kept his job, and who knows, he may well have been able to win the three or four extra points to have kept us up, we'll never know. But what then? There was no conceivable way the club could've kept him on as the manager and though we'd still have been in the Premier League we'd have had massive, massive problems that would've needed millions to have put right. A new manager would've had no chance picking up the pieces of the mess Mark Hughes left in that league, especially working for a board who wouldn't/couldn't back him with the huge funds it would've needed. Firstly Dave I think the timing of the Hughes sacking was wrong, had he stayed I think he would have kept us up.
Secondly, having sacked him, the Board then got the replacement wrong.
Thirdly, had Hughes been sacked at the end of the season we then would have had time to search for the best replacement available.
Fourth, by any measure the club would be in a better position by being in the PL than in the Championship, whether a new manager would then have been able to stabilize the club of course is open to question, but I think there would have been a good chance he would have.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 12:38:01 GMT
In my world, one is someone i feel priviliged to have watched play football in recent years(Arnie) and only behaved like pretty much all top class footballers do currently - i.e got himself a better gig when he got the chance, whilst the other,(Hughes) remains a totally arrogant shithouse who singlehandly (almost), sent stoke city backwards at least a decade in the last sorry 18 months of his own personal 'planecrash' in football management. To my eyes: to 'have it in for the player' and less so for the manager in question is, truly bizarre. And as for the Hughes sacking being 'wrong', the only thing wrong about it was: it was about 18 months too late!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 13:03:23 GMT
In my world, one is someone i feel priviliged to have watched play football in recent years(Arnie) and only behaved like pretty much all top class footballers do currently - i.e got himself a better gig when he got the chance, whilst the other,(Hughes) remains a totally arrogant shithouse who singlehandly (almost), sent stoke city backwards at least a decade in the last sorry 18 months of his own personal 'planecrash' in football management. To my eyes: to 'have it in for the player' and less so for the manager in question is, truly bizarre. And as for the Hughes sacking being 'wrong', the only thing wrong about it was: it was about 18 months too late! It isn't about 'having it in' for either. Hughes should have gone well before he did. Arnautovic was an ungrateful, greedy little twat. Fair enough, there's no loyalty in football, but we plucked him off the scrapheap and he repaid us by doing one to the first no marks who waved a sack of cash in front of him. He can do what he wants, but I don't have to like it.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 13, 2018 13:12:16 GMT
In my world, one is someone i feel priviliged to have watched play football in recent years(Arnie) and only behaved like pretty much all top class footballers do currently - i.e got himself a better gig when he got the chance, whilst the other,(Hughes) remains a totally arrogant shithouse who singlehandly (almost), sent stoke city backwards at least a decade in the last sorry 18 months of his own personal 'planecrash' in football management. To my eyes: to 'have it in for the player' and less so for the manager in question is, truly bizarre. And as for the Hughes sacking being 'wrong', the only thing wrong about it was: it was about 18 months too late! It isn't about 'having it in' for either. Hughes should have gone well before he did. Arnautovic was an ungrateful, greedy little twat. Fair enough, there's no loyalty in football, but we plucked him off the scrapheap and he repaid us by doing one to the first no marks who waved a sack of cash in front of him. He can do what he wants, but I don't have to like it. I was of the same mind when he left Rob , however don't you think in hindsight it turned out to be a good move for him in every respect and his comments, however ill judged were proven spot on .
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 13:26:44 GMT
It isn't about 'having it in' for either. Hughes should have gone well before he did. Arnautovic was an ungrateful, greedy little twat. Fair enough, there's no loyalty in football, but we plucked him off the scrapheap and he repaid us by doing one to the first no marks who waved a sack of cash in front of him. He can do what he wants, but I don't have to like it. I was of the same mind when he left Rob , however don't you think in hindsight it turned out to be a good move for him in every respect and his comments, however ill judged were proven spot on . Oh completely, but I don’t believe for a single second that’s why he left.
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Post by Absolution on Aug 13, 2018 13:31:42 GMT
The irony is that had Arnie stayed, there's a reasonable chance that we'd have avoided the drop and West Ham had gone down. Effectively, he was the ambition that West Ham were showing.
Maybe that's what he meant. They'd offered him more than we were prepared to.
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Post by Davef on Aug 13, 2018 15:48:47 GMT
You're trying to come across as the voice of reason Geoff, but you're way wide of the mark here. Hughes could've helped his cause massively by building a team that was good enough to beat League 2 Coventry in the FA Cup. He couldn't manage that, as he couldn't manage a Premier League team to victory over several other lower league clubs and with his team in the bottom three of the league rightly lost his job. Had we beaten Coventry, then in all likelihood he'd have kept his job, and who knows, he may well have been able to win the three or four extra points to have kept us up, we'll never know. But what then? There was no conceivable way the club could've kept him on as the manager and though we'd still have been in the Premier League we'd have had massive, massive problems that would've needed millions to have put right. A new manager would've had no chance picking up the pieces of the mess Mark Hughes left in that league, especially working for a board who wouldn't/couldn't back him with the huge funds it would've needed. Firstly Dave I think the timing of the Hughes sacking was wrong, had he stayed I think he would have kept us up.
Secondly, having sacked him, the Board then got the replacement wrong.
Thirdly, had Hughes been sacked at the end of the season we then would have had time to search for the best replacement available.
Fourth, by any measure the club would be in a better position by being in the PL than in the Championship, whether a new manager would then have been able to stabilize the club of course is open to question, but I think there would have been a good chance he would have.
The timing of his dismissal was dictated entirely by who we lost to on the day he was sacked Geoff. NO Premier League manager in our position would have survived that result. As I said though, had we beaten Coventry he wouldn't have lost his job that day and we'll never know what would've followed. Anybody can say he would've kept us up, but you have no way of knowing that and you can't really back it up because of what came before. What points would he have won that Lambert didn't? Would we have won any points at Leicester, West Ham or Liverpool under Hughes? Would Charlie Adam not have been a dope against Brighton and Everton under Hughes? Like I say, we'll never, ever know.
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Post by Absolution on Aug 13, 2018 16:15:58 GMT
I was a big fan of what Hughes did at the club for three years, but there could have been no justification for keeping him on at the time he was sacked.
It's become a cliche to say that a manager has lost the dressing room, but I can't remember a clearer case of players seemingly not giving a shit.
The number of four goal or more drubbings had gone on for far too long. Any manager who was in control would have put a stop to that straightaway. He didn't, presumably because he couldn't.
Would he have kept us up? We'll never know. But it would have been utter madness to have kept him on long enough to find out.
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 13, 2018 17:51:19 GMT
Firstly Dave I think the timing of the Hughes sacking was wrong, had he stayed I think he would have kept us up.
Secondly, having sacked him, the Board then got the replacement wrong.
Thirdly, had Hughes been sacked at the end of the season we then would have had time to search for the best replacement available.
Fourth, by any measure the club would be in a better position by being in the PL than in the Championship, whether a new manager would then have been able to stabilize the club of course is open to question, but I think there would have been a good chance he would have.
The timing of his dismissal was dictated entirely by who we lost to on the day he was sacked Geoff. NO Premier League manager in our position would have survived that result. As I said though, had we beaten Coventry he wouldn't have lost his job that day and we'll never know what would've followed. Anybody can say he would've kept us up, but you have no way of knowing that and you can't really back it up because of what came before. What points would he have won that Lambert didn't? Would we have won any points at Leicester, West Ham or Liverpool under Hughes? Would Charlie Adam not have been a dope against Brighton and Everton under Hughes? Like I say, we'll never, ever know. I imagine the Board believed Hughes was taking us down and the appointment of a new man would give us some hope, in fact the complete opposite occurred and the results got marginally worse.
In that respect Dave the sacking of Hughes turned out to be pointless, as not only did Lambert take us down but he himself was sacked and not seen as the man to lead us back into the PL.
I agree with you that the Coventry result sealed the fate of Hughes, but the failure of the Board to identify a suitable proven manager at this level to replace him was what ultimately condemned us to relegation.
Most peope on this Board wanted Hughes out, if they had been told in advance that the replacement was Paul Lambert, I wonder how many would have changed their mind?
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Post by loosestools on Aug 13, 2018 17:57:57 GMT
In my world, one is someone i feel priviliged to have watched play football in recent years(Arnie) and only behaved like pretty much all top class footballers do currently - i.e got himself a better gig when he got the chance, whilst the other,(Hughes) remains a totally arrogant shithouse who singlehandly (almost), sent stoke city backwards at least a decade in the last sorry 18 months of his own personal 'planecrash' in football management. To my eyes: to 'have it in for the player' and less so for the manager in question is, truly bizarre. And as for the Hughes sacking being 'wrong', the only thing wrong about it was: it was about 18 months too late! God how I missed Arnie last season. Re your opinion of LMH - spot on - can't stand the arrogant twat. Keep up the vitriol!
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Post by PolPotter on Aug 13, 2018 17:59:06 GMT
With hindsight I think Hughes would have found the extra 4 points we needed to stay in the Premier League last season. It would only have needed 2 of the draws in a very gentle run in to become victories. But equally I can see why our board ultimately, and I'm sure against their initial intentions, caved in to the pressure. The upshot is we're languishing in the Championship and Hughes is jerking himself off on the south coast. Life is about choices and some will haunt you forever. I don't think we had a chance of staying up with Hughes. He would have taken us down like any other manager. We were rotten to the core by the time he left.
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Post by Gods on Aug 13, 2018 18:03:40 GMT
The irony is that had Arnie stayed, there's a reasonable chance that we'd have avoided the drop and West Ham had gone down. Effectively, he was the ambition that West Ham were showing. Maybe that's what he meant. They'd offered him more than we were prepared to. You make a good point. Take away what Arnie brought to WHU last season and give it back to Stoke and you can easily see us getting a couple more wins and West Ham a couple less and the positions are reversed.
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Post by Davef on Aug 13, 2018 18:08:11 GMT
The timing of his dismissal was dictated entirely by who we lost to on the day he was sacked Geoff. NO Premier League manager in our position would have survived that result. As I said though, had we beaten Coventry he wouldn't have lost his job that day and we'll never know what would've followed. Anybody can say he would've kept us up, but you have no way of knowing that and you can't really back it up because of what came before. What points would he have won that Lambert didn't? Would we have won any points at Leicester, West Ham or Liverpool under Hughes? Would Charlie Adam not have been a dope against Brighton and Everton under Hughes? Like I say, we'll never, ever know. I imagine the Board believed Hughes was taking us down and the appointment of a new man would give us some hope, in fact the complete opposite occurred and the results got marginally worse.
In that respect Dave the sacking of Hughes turned out to be pointless, as not only did Lambert take us down but he himself was sacked and not seen as the man to lead us back into the PL.
I agree with you that the Coventry result sealed the fate of Hughes, but the failure of the Board to identify a suitable proven manager at this level to replace him was what ultimately condemned us to relegation.
Most peope on this Board wanted Hughes out, if they had been told in advance that the replacement was Paul Lambert, I wonder how many would have changed their mind?
Yes Geoff, and if I'd known that pie I bought at Scunthorpe in 2007 would give me the shits I wouldn't have bought it.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 13, 2018 18:13:02 GMT
I imagine the Board believed Hughes was taking us down and the appointment of a new man would give us some hope, in fact the complete opposite occurred and the results got marginally worse. In that respect Dave the sacking of Hughes turned out to be pointless, as not only did Lambert take us down but he himself was sacked and not seen as the man to lead us back into the PL. I agree with you that the Coventry result sealed the fate of Hughes, but the failure of the Board to identify a suitable proven manager at this level to replace him was what ultimately condemned us to relegation. Most peope on this Board wanted Hughes out, if they had been told in advance that the replacement was Paul Lambert, I wonder how many would have changed their mind?
Yes Geoff, and if I'd known that pie I bought at Scunthorpe in 2007 would give me the shits I wouldn't have bought it. Was that the 3-2 game? I was bad after that game as well.
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Post by Davef on Aug 13, 2018 18:23:47 GMT
Yes Geoff, and if I'd known that pie I bought at Scunthorpe in 2007 would give me the shits I wouldn't have bought it. Was that the 3-2 game? I was bad after that game as well. Certainly was.
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 13, 2018 19:06:48 GMT
I imagine the Board believed Hughes was taking us down and the appointment of a new man would give us some hope, in fact the complete opposite occurred and the results got marginally worse.
In that respect Dave the sacking of Hughes turned out to be pointless, as not only did Lambert take us down but he himself was sacked and not seen as the man to lead us back into the PL.
I agree with you that the Coventry result sealed the fate of Hughes, but the failure of the Board to identify a suitable proven manager at this level to replace him was what ultimately condemned us to relegation.
Most peope on this Board wanted Hughes out, if they had been told in advance that the replacement was Paul Lambert, I wonder how many would have changed their mind?
Yes Geoff, and if I'd known that pie I bought at Scunthorpe in 2007 would give me the shits I wouldn't have bought it. Are you sure it was the pie that gave you the shits Dave, or the excitement of a Tony Pulis side scoring 3 goals in an away match.
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Post by callas12 on Aug 14, 2018 23:09:02 GMT
Exactly the same cirqs compared to his QPR stint.. That's a concern to me coz they never recovered from his meddling.. Thats 2x relegations he's presided over but in his head & according to the records he has NO link to or responsibility for either. What do you think happened after the Liverpool thrashing? Have you considered that LMH (OBE) might have wanted to move onwards and upwards? Have you considered that SCFC might have said to him "Well now hold on a bit here Les, we are quite comfortable sitting mid table in the best League in the world". Les replies that he wants more..... So Les gets slapped down and plods on. Arnie spots what has happened here - and out comes the famous quote "Lack of ambition". We have all seen what happened next. LMH (OBE) is a very good manager. I'm sorry but people like PFL and GR are not even in his class. Rightio.. I'll have some of what your having, describing Hughes as a 'very good manager! What's he ever won or achieved in football management? He slides in to new jobs leaving a trail of destruction behind him whereever he's been. I'm no fan in the slightest of Joey Barton but his views on Hughes I do concur with. & to use an Arnie quote in the same subject as Hughes is farcical.. If Hughes & Arnie were singing off the same hymn sheet why has Arnie got nothing but contempt running through his veins towards LMH OBE (as you insist on calling him?! Hughes presided over our pre season & squad transfers in summer of 2017-18 & ultimately saw us slump & fail in the league, league cup & FA Cup with a squad that was & should of been more than capable of holding its own.. A team that he ultimately resorted to adopting TP's players & tactics with on his final throw of the dice! Regardless of Off field boardroom politics Hughes quickly became out of his depth with no back up plan B or C & as a consequence we are where are. Wake up & smell the coffee if you insist on thinking he's so wonderful.
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