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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 8:18:19 GMT
Arnie went for the money. I'm not entirely sure I buy that Rowett's 'hands are tied' either. I don't think Arnie would have left if all was well at Stoke. The situation made it easy to move. The situation wasn’t wildly different from 12 months earlier but he signed a new contract then. He was offered 100 grand a week, he wasn’t going to get that here, so he agitated for his move.
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Post by BuzzB on Aug 13, 2018 8:19:21 GMT
The Stoke City Board sacked Mark Hughes and we are now in the Championship. The Southampton Board appointed Mark Hughes and they are still in the PL. Which club got it right? Nowhere near as black and white as you paint it Geoff, and you know it!!
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Post by Rick Grimes on Aug 13, 2018 8:21:31 GMT
I think Hughes would have given us a better chance than Lambert but we were still only heading one way under Hughes. With hindsight the board should have sounded out a replacement before getting rid of Hughes, they should have also got rid of Hughes far earlier.
Sacking him in January and then scratching around for a replacement whilst the January transfer window was ticking on epitomised the muddled thinking at the club. It doesn’t really matter who came in, giving them such a short of amount of time to identify the issues and highlight potential transfers was just ridiculous.
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Post by andystokey on Aug 13, 2018 8:23:14 GMT
I don't think Arnie would have left if all was well at Stoke. The situation made it easy to move. The situation wasn’t wildly different from 12 months earlier but he signed a new contract then. He was offered 100 grand a week, he wasn’t going to get that here, so he agitated for his move. When you say offered I'd replace that with "engineered". My guess was the dressing room significantly deteriorated in that 12 months.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 8:36:12 GMT
The situation wasn’t wildly different from 12 months earlier but he signed a new contract then. He was offered 100 grand a week, he wasn’t going to get that here, so he agitated for his move. When you say offered I'd replace that with "engineered". My guess was the dressing room significantly deteriorated in that 12 months. Why is it so hard for you to consider the possibility that he was offered significantly more money and went for that reason?
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Post by noustie on Aug 13, 2018 8:37:12 GMT
It might be worth revisiting this in 10 games as his summer business doesn’t seem the best and not being able beat a Burnley at home after Europa screams of his usual slow start.
He should have been gone from us when there was only stewards left on to clap the team at the end of that season but it is difficult to fault the board for at least trying to show some loyalty. I just had the impression he was awaiting a payoff for at least the last twelve months of his tenure as his @rse seemed to barely move from the bench. At least PFL waived his arms about a bit when he was unhappy.
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Post by andystokey on Aug 13, 2018 8:38:14 GMT
When you say offered I'd replace that with "engineered". My guess was the dressing room significantly deteriorated in that 12 months. Why is it so hard for you to consider the possibility that he was offered significantly more money and went for that reason? I'm more than content it was part of the reason.
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Post by kronkie on Aug 13, 2018 8:38:40 GMT
He wasn't very smug yesterday,I went to the saints game on a freebie and the fans are disillusioned all ready. He played a flat back 4 in the first half, changed it a bit in the second with inngs coming on but it was still very poor. Best of luck to them but it will end in tears, hopefully.
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Post by liamo on Aug 13, 2018 8:40:33 GMT
He's a gimp but I hold much less hatred for him now than I did 12 months ago
It's pretty clear that he was just the little spot of puke on top of the mountain of shit that is the hierarchy at Stoke
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 13, 2018 8:44:09 GMT
The Stoke City Board sacked Mark Hughes and we are now in the Championship. The Southampton Board appointed Mark Hughes and they are still in the PL. Which club got it right? Nowhere near as black and white as you paint it Geoff, and you know it!! The result is black and white, we are in the Championship and Southampton are in the PL.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 8:47:59 GMT
Why is it so hard for you to consider the possibility that he was offered significantly more money and went for that reason? I'm more than content it was part of the reason. Does it not strike you as strange that his own ‘ambition’, having turned down a genuinely ambitious club in Everton the previous summer, should only extend to joining a basket case club with owners that constantly undermined their manager and a miserable fan base unhappy with a move to a white elephant stadium, with a manager equally as hapless and more under pressure than our own was at the time?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 8:48:09 GMT
They are and they aren't tied. They aren't by the default of the money he has spent, but they are because of the huge mess he's inherited, and the amount of squad churn required IMO. There's no doubt that in some quarters, the size of the job has been hugely underestimated - some of that in the stands too. His hands are tied to some degree with the players he needs rid of before replacing also, those players we stand little to no chance of moving on and clearing the decks with. His hands being tied suggests to me that there’s nothing he can do himself about the situation. I don’t agree with that. I agree he’s got a job on his hands, both with some of the dreck he needs to shift, and working with the nincompoops in the transfer team. But he should have the raw materials to work with even now to be able to get a reasonable tune out of this team. This isn’t a Sunderland level squad. Agreed.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 8:48:19 GMT
Nowhere near as black and white as you paint it Geoff, and you know it!! The result is black and white, we are in the Championship and Southampton are in the PL.
The result is, the correlation isn’t.
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Post by BuzzB on Aug 13, 2018 8:49:53 GMT
Nowhere near as black and white as you paint it Geoff, and you know it!! The result is black and white, we are in the Championship and Southampton are in the PL.
We were firmly in the bottom 3 when he was sacked. We were down under his leadership no matter which way you try to twist it. He was / is along with the pizza pair 99% responsible for where we are, Lambert was on a hiding to nothing as he just wasn’t up to it, blame Coates for that.
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 13, 2018 9:04:14 GMT
The result is black and white, we are in the Championship and Southampton are in the PL.
We were firmly in the bottom 3 when he was sacked. We were down under his leadership no matter which way you try to twist it. He was / is along with the pizza pair 99% responsible for where we are, Lambert was on a hiding to nothing as he just wasn’t up to it, blame Coates for that. By any measure results have been worse since Hughes was sacked, however that is now in the past.
My concern now is that GR is getting the treatment from some posters, we simply need to give this guy plenty of time to improve results, the league table after 2 games means very little.
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Post by geoff321 on Aug 13, 2018 9:05:27 GMT
The result is black and white, we are in the Championship and Southampton are in the PL.
The result is, the correlation isn’t. It's the result that matters though rob, isn't it?
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Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 13, 2018 9:11:54 GMT
Arnie went for the money. I'm not entirely sure I buy that Rowett's 'hands are tied' either. I don't think Arnie would have left if all was well at Stoke. The situation made it easy to move. Annie signed a huge new contract and a year later moved for an even bigger one. The idea he cared about anything othervthan money is bonkers
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Post by andystokey on Aug 13, 2018 9:21:47 GMT
I'm more than content it was part of the reason. Does it not strike you as strange that his own ‘ambition’, having turned down a genuinely ambitious club in Everton the previous summer, should only extend to joining a basket case club with owners that constantly undermined their manager and a miserable fan base unhappy with a move to a white elephant stadium, with a manager equally as hapless and more under pressure than our own was at the time? I think that helps make my point. The vitriol shown by Hughes towards him on his return was completely disproportionate to the deal which put £20m in our kitty and the petty tweets from the official site about his move. Given the two clubs relative standing at the time I agree it was a matter of money making the difference. But I still think Hughes (the club) and Arnie had lost all respect for each other. It indicates to me that mutual lack of respect was terminal. Given what we have subsequently seen it's clear the club have failed to create a good culture and one of professional respect. If it was only Arnie I'd be totally behind the money thing as the only reason. But Charlie, Shaq, Chupo, Wimmer, Berahino, Pieters, Affelay, the ones we know of, have all been cited as problems. That's a lot going wrong. There was clearly a toxic dressing room. Id be looking for a new job too if I valued my career and hated coming to work every day. Hopefully one better paid. If we had a happier camp and a tight knit team I don't think he would have jumped so easily. It's no coincidence is it Clint Hill at QPR claims he was in the worst dressing room of his career. An honest bloke who despite his technical shortcomings played professionally throughout his career. Read this and tell me what you think are common factors. www.skysports.com/football/news/11711/8964415/harry-redknapp-reveals-extent-of-qpr-dressing-room-indiscipline
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tribe
Youth Player
Posts: 303
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Post by tribe on Aug 13, 2018 9:29:16 GMT
Does it not strike you as strange that his own ‘ambition’, having turned down a genuinely ambitious club in Everton the previous summer, should only extend to joining a basket case club with owners that constantly undermined their manager and a miserable fan base unhappy with a move to a white elephant stadium, with a manager equally as hapless and more under pressure than our own was at the time? I think that helps make my point. The vitriol shown by Hughes towards him on his return was completely disproportionate to the deal which put £20m in our kitty and the petty tweets from the official site about his move. Given the two clubs relative standing at the time I agree it was a matter of money making the difference. But I still think Hughes (the club) and Arnie had lost all respect for each other. It indicates to me that mutual lack of respect was terminal. Given what we have subsequently seen it's clear the club have failed to create a good culture and one of professional respect. If it was only Arnie I'd be totally behind the money thing as the only reason. But Charlie, Shaq, Chupo, Wimmer, Berahino, Pieters, Affelay, the ones we know of, have all been cited as problems. That's a lot going wrong. There was clearly a toxic dressing room. Id be looking for a new job too if I valued my career and hated coming to work every day. Hopefully one better paid. If we had a happier camp and a tight knit team I don't think he would have jumped so easily. It's no coincidence is it Clint Hill at QPR claims he was in the worst dressing room of his career. An honest bloke who despite his technical shortcomings played professionally throughout his career. Read this and tell me what you think are common factors. www.skysports.com/football/news/11711/8964415/harry-redknapp-reveals-extent-of-qpr-dressing-room-indisciplineScary stuff! The unbalance and ill-discipline he talks of is uncanny, as is over-paid players with poisonous attitudes!
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 13, 2018 9:31:52 GMT
Hughes did a very good job early doors but lost it totally over the last year and a half he was here. Getting rid was the right choice but the timing and the replacement were all wrong. It's only a matter of time before he ruins Southampton, though, so at least there's that.
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Post by Gods on Aug 13, 2018 9:33:43 GMT
Yes he likely would. The change from Hughes to Lambert was utterly bizarre, a moment of unadulterated insanity. Men in white coats time for those behind the 'decision'. The big mistake was not sacking him one, maybe two years earlier. Yes, certainly not saying he was unsackable, just not when we did it, with no sensible alternative.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 10:07:03 GMT
The result is, the correlation isn’t. It's the result that matters though rob, isn't it? You can’t divorce context from it, however convenient that might be Geoff.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 10:11:52 GMT
Does it not strike you as strange that his own ‘ambition’, having turned down a genuinely ambitious club in Everton the previous summer, should only extend to joining a basket case club with owners that constantly undermined their manager and a miserable fan base unhappy with a move to a white elephant stadium, with a manager equally as hapless and more under pressure than our own was at the time? I think that helps make my point. The vitriol shown by Hughes towards him on his return was completely disproportionate to the deal which put £20m in our kitty and the petty tweets from the official site about his move. Given the two clubs relative standing at the time I agree it was a matter of money making the difference. But I still think Hughes (the club) and Arnie had lost all respect for each other. It indicates to me that mutual lack of respect was terminal. Given what we have subsequently seen it's clear the club have failed to create a good culture and one of professional respect. If it was only Arnie I'd be totally behind the money thing as the only reason. But Charlie, Shaq, Chupo, Wimmer, Berahino, Pieters, Affelay, the ones we know of, have all been cited as problems. That's a lot going wrong. There was clearly a toxic dressing room. Id be looking for a new job too if I valued my career and hated coming to work every day. Hopefully one better paid. If we had a happier camp and a tight knit team I don't think he would have jumped so easily. It's no coincidence is it Clint Hill at QPR claims he was in the worst dressing room of his career. An honest bloke who despite his technical shortcomings played professionally throughout his career. Read this and tell me what you think are common factors. www.skysports.com/football/news/11711/8964415/harry-redknapp-reveals-extent-of-qpr-dressing-room-indisciplineThe vitriol shown by Hughes was in direct response to that shown by Arnie to the crowd and him. Didn’t he call him an ungrateful fucker or something? Which he 100% is. Of the players you cite as problems, some weren’t even at the club when Arnie left, the rest were there the previous summer when he signed his contract - Pieters and Shaq were two of his closest friends at the club. So that to me doesn’t suggest they were the reason he left. I don’t think Harry Redknapp, football’s leading buck passer, is exactly a reliable narrator necessarily.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 10:16:10 GMT
Arnie saw he was at a mickey mouse club run by risk averse; small time, smalltown fuckin idiots top to bottom THEN, he and his brother went for the money .They saw it first and are entirely blameless and in turn were treated like shit when returning. I just hope Mark Hughes gets a commensuate basin full of abuse and vitriol when that particular incompetent, joyless, arrogant, club wrecking cock gets to return.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 10:30:18 GMT
Arnie saw he was at a mickey mouse club run by risk averse; small time, smalltown fuckin idiots top to bottom THEN, he and his brother went for the money .They saw it first and are entirely blameless and in turn were treated like shit when returning. I just hope Mark Hughes gets a commensuate basin full of abuse and vitriol when that particular incompetent, joyless, arrogant, club wrecking cock gets to return. And went to another Micky Mouse club... Entirely blameless my arse
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Post by stokief on Aug 13, 2018 10:43:41 GMT
The powers that be should've also noted his behaviour towards Clint Hill(according to Clint) at Wilko's testimonial. Petulant, childish and arrogant it seemed. Said a lot about him I thought and would've set my alarm bells ringing. Should've been gone at the end of the season. We could've gone all out for a manager who knew how to handle egos rather than maybe being the ego and possibly, if we had shown ambition kept the likes of Arnie happy. All of that hard work for nothing eh? Was never my pick for the job anyway. I know someone who was best mates with an ex QPR player, who still had a big interest in them who told of the dressing room atmosphere at the time ,it was hardly a secret and would've made me think twice. Scary thing is QPR haven't recovered really and our future isn't looking promisisng at the moment.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 10:55:30 GMT
The powers that be should've also noted his behaviour towards Clint Hill(according to Clint) at Wilko's testimonial. Petulant, childish and arrogant it seemed. Said a lot about him I thought and would've set my alarm bells ringing. Should've been gone at the end of the season. We could've gone all out for a manager who knew how to handle egos rather than maybe being the ego and possibly, if we had shown ambition kept the likes of Arnie happy. All of that hard work for nothing eh? Was never my pick for the job anyway. I know someone who was best mates with an ex QPR player, who still had a big interest in them who told of the dressing room atmosphere at the time ,it was hardly a secret and would've made me think twice. Scary thing is QPR haven't recovered really and our future isn't looking promisisng at the moment. Let’s not pretend it was a complete nightmare from start to finish though eh? It went very sour, but it wasn’t the catastrophe from day one that some people are rewriting history on...
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Post by thevoid on Aug 13, 2018 11:09:41 GMT
He should have gone after the 1-4 defeat at Palace, when four goal defeats were becoming the norm.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 13, 2018 11:10:33 GMT
The Stoke City Board sacked Mark Hughes and we are now in the Championship. The Southampton Board appointed Mark Hughes and they are still in the PL. Which club got it right? Southampton because they haven't got you spamming their messageboards, you whopper 😎
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 13, 2018 11:13:32 GMT
The big mistake was not sacking him one, maybe two years earlier. Yes, certainly not saying he was unsackable, just not when we did it, with no sensible alternative. I think we still might have found a sensible alternative if we didn’t have all the imagination and open mindedness of a UKIP-voting woodlouse.
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