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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 4, 2014 14:54:21 GMT
well, many blacks have said there are barriers and institutional racism. But a formal survey, no not that I'm aware of. Do you live in the UK ? no, I do not.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 4, 2014 14:55:59 GMT
How many disabled people are in the able bodied game in the first place? The game is not losing disabled people is it.
An ignorant viewpoint.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 4, 2014 14:57:08 GMT
Bu Carpslayer, how else can we explain the disproportionately low number of managers compared to professional players? Please give me the benefit of your wisdom. I have worked in companies with large numbers of coloured employees, I have never worked for an employer who was not white, why would that be any different or indeed viewed any differently in football, can you explain that one not one of my ex boss's was racist in any way neither were the owners, or are you suggesting otherwise. Sorry, not only can I not see the relevance of that, I can't actually understand it.
Probably my fault, I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 4, 2014 14:58:41 GMT
well, many blacks have said there are barriers and institutional racism. But a formal survey, no not that I'm aware of. Are those barriers there own perception of what they believe. Ie I won't bother taking my coaching badges as I won't get a job because I am black, making it themselves holding them back and not the system. Is that why Sol has not bothered to take is coaching badges. As all those that have that I know of have made it to a club, whether they achieved success is down to them, Noël Blake made it not into management but was in a very good role in the FA with the England squad I think undoubtedly many people internalize a perceived lack of opportunity for those with commonalities, and in turn are discouraged from pursuing something of that nature. As for sol, I can't say.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 15:02:13 GMT
no! you can't decide what to conclude about people's opinions when no-one has said anything of the sort you arrogant, discourteous, presumptious imbecile!!! you also can't say people are dismissing it, if you've actually had the courtesy to read people's posts before slagging them off and insulting them in a petty way then you'd see that NO-ONE has dismissed it at all, they have merely said that very very few black ex-players are actually agreeing with this in the first place and as yet no-one has proved that the number is simply down to race (which you HAVE to do with any allegations i.e. back them up! you can't just sit back say "That's what i've decided is the reason and without anything to back it up i'm right and anyone who says i need to prove it is just wrong". some on here have come up with reasoned and valid comments on both sides...unfortunately you're definitely not one of them though How kind of you to give me a piece of your mind when you've obviously got so little to spare.
I was simply taking your argument to its logical conclusion. If that is wrong I apologise.
Please tell me then, why the number of black coaches and managers is disproportionately low compared to the number of black footballers?
If it's not wrapped up in our complicated attitudes to race, and you've got upset when I suggested you thought that black managers must not be as capable as white managers, why are the numbers so low?
i don't know...hence several people saying actually asking the black ex-players may well be the best way to answer it rather than letting a white person like yourself just presume. NO-ONE has said or even inferred that black people aren't as good at the job as white people (find one person who has..go on, i dare you!) and you haven't taken anything i said to it's logical conclusion at all (and if you think you have then you either haven't read my posts or have no idea what the phrase actually means). what you've actually done is ignore what people HAVE said and put your own words into people's mouths even though it's in no sense any kind of logical step. i'd just advise you to let momo and shart handle this one mate, they have a bit more about them to be honest and you're kinda embarrassing their standpoint by agreeing with it
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 15:04:48 GMT
How many disabled people are in the able bodied game in the first place? The game is not losing disabled people is it. An ignorant viewpoint. so? the point is that they have just as much right to apply for badges and jobs etc. but don't do so because of other factors. you have however decided that black players don't have ANY other factors to take into account apart from their skin colour which is just as ignorant unless you have taken a poll and asked them individually. who are you to say on the behalf of black people what issues they face when they themselves (or the large majority of them) haven't even come out and said so themselves? it's presumption on your part without even listening to what those that are apparently effected by it have to say about it. ignorant
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 4, 2014 15:07:09 GMT
well, many blacks have said there are barriers and institutional racism. But a formal survey, no not that I'm aware of. Who are these 'many' black men who have said that racism has stopped them becoming football managers. How many can you name? I'm genuinely interested. I believe I said blacks that have pointed to barriers and institutional racism, not specifically black football players speaking out about a lack of management opportunities. I'm sure a search of google will provide you with plenty of examples of blacks who are aware of these types of situations, and those of course are the ones who aren't afraid of any repercussions for being outspoken.
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Post by slpmarc on Sept 4, 2014 15:07:51 GMT
Are those barriers there own perception of what they believe. Ie I won't bother taking my coaching badges as I won't get a job because I am black, making it themselves holding them back and not the system. Is that why Sol has not bothered to take is coaching badges. As all those that have that I know of have made it to a club, whether they achieved success is down to them, Noël Blake made it not into management but was in a very good role in the FA with the England squad I think undoubtedly many people internalize a perceived lack of opportunity for those with commonalities, and in turn are discouraged from pursuing something of that nature. As for sol, I can't say. That's what I am getting at, it seems some black players perceive there is lack of opportunities in management and coaching so don't bother, when I fact there are opportunities, but use their perception as fact to stop them trying. If their was a pool of 100 in a coaching class and only 5 were black. These been those who believed that there perception was wrong and have it a go. Due to probability the chance of a black coach getting a job out of that class is 1 in 20. If all the black players decided to take up coaching after playing in the same class of 100 maybe 50 would be black making the probability of a black coach getting a job from that class 1 in 2
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 4, 2014 15:11:55 GMT
Bu Carpslayer, how else can we explain the disproportionately low number of managers compared to professional players? Please give me the benefit of your wisdom. It's just a gross over simplification to suggest its because of race. It's like me saying that because only 3% of the UK male population is black, yet 25% of professional footballers are black, this then PROVES that football is racist against white men. Which would be a ridiculous suggestion to make. It clearly isn't that simple. I don't know why there is disproportionately a much larger number of black footballers than there is white footballers and I don't know why less black footballers want to become managers than white men. Here's an idea - maybe somebody, could, erm ... ask them.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 4, 2014 15:12:33 GMT
I think undoubtedly many people internalize a perceived lack of opportunity for those with commonalities, and in turn are discouraged from pursuing something of that nature. As for sol, I can't say. That's what I am getting at, it seems some black players perceive there is lack of opportunities in management and coaching so don't bother, when I fact there are opportunities, but use their perception as fact to stop them trying. If their was a pool of 100 in a coaching class and only 5 were black. These been those who believed that there perception was wrong and have it a go. Due to probability the chance of a black coach getting a job out of that class is 1 in 20. If all the black players decided to take up coaching after playing in the same class of 100 maybe 50 would be black making the probability of a black coach getting a job from that class 1 in 2 I absolutely agree that there are lots of people working hard to create equal opportunities, and in order to have more black managers, more black players must get their badges. I just don't think the inequality comes from merit or ability of one race over the other.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 4, 2014 15:14:08 GMT
Who are these 'many' black men who have said that racism has stopped them becoming football managers. How many can you name? I'm genuinely interested. I believe I said blacks that have pointed to barriers and institutional racism, not specifically black football players speaking out about a lack of management opportunities. I'm sure a search of google will provide you with plenty of examples of blacks who are aware of these types of situations, and those of course are the ones who aren't afraid of any repercussions for being outspoken. So you can't name any black men who claim that racism has prevented them from becoming managers? Interesting that.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 4, 2014 15:15:52 GMT
How many disabled people are in the able bodied game in the first place? The game is not losing disabled people is it. An ignorant viewpoint. so? the point is that they have just as much right to apply for badges and jobs etc. but don't do so because of other factors. you have however decided that black players don't have ANY other factors to take into account apart from their skin colour which is just as ignorant unless you have taken a poll and asked them individually. who are you to say on the behalf of black people what issues they face when they themselves (or the large majority of them) haven't even come out and said so themselves? it's presumption on your part without even listening to what those that are apparently effected by it have to say about it. ignorant You're basically trivialising the debate now Mick. 98-99% of black players who do so much to make the game great drift out of it. The barriers clearly exist. I think its associated at some level with race, you don't fair enough but don't give me this, there are no disabled managers, no lesbian ban the bomb single mother managers. It's completely irrelevant.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 4, 2014 15:26:10 GMT
How kind of you to give me a piece of your mind when you've obviously got so little to spare.
I was simply taking your argument to its logical conclusion. If that is wrong I apologise.
Please tell me then, why the number of black coaches and managers is disproportionately low compared to the number of black footballers?
If it's not wrapped up in our complicated attitudes to race, and you've got upset when I suggested you thought that black managers must not be as capable as white managers, why are the numbers so low?
i don't know...hence several people saying actually asking the black ex-players may well be the best way to answer it rather than letting a white person like yourself just presume. NO-ONE has said or even inferred that black people aren't as good at the job as white people (find one person who has..go on, i dare you!) and you haven't taken anything i said to it's logical conclusion at all (and if you think you have then you either haven't read my posts or have no idea what the phrase actually means). what you've actually done is ignore what people HAVE said and put your own words into people's mouths even though it's in no sense any kind of logical step. i'd just advise you to let momo and shart handle this one mate, they have a bit more about them to be honest and you're kinda embarrassing their standpoint by agreeing with it No I haven't. I've simply asked why there is a disproportionately low number of black managers.
You're right, I haven't taken your argument to its logical conclusion, because it now seems as if there is no logic to it. Despite the facts staring you in the face, (1black manager in 92 league clubs) you can't see a problem and think that by asking black ex-players why these numbers are so low, we may come up with some alternative theory. And I'm embarrassing myself?
Thanks for your advice, but I'm OK with my position on this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 15:32:09 GMT
so? the point is that they have just as much right to apply for badges and jobs etc. but don't do so because of other factors. you have however decided that black players don't have ANY other factors to take into account apart from their skin colour which is just as ignorant unless you have taken a poll and asked them individually. who are you to say on the behalf of black people what issues they face when they themselves (or the large majority of them) haven't even come out and said so themselves? it's presumption on your part without even listening to what those that are apparently effected by it have to say about it. ignorant You're basically trivialising the debate now Mick. 98-99% of black players who do so much to make the game great drift out of it. The barriers clearly exist. I think its associated at some level with race, you don't fair enough but don't give me this, there are no disabled managers, no lesbian ban the bomb single mother managers. It's completely irrelevant. it's not though momo.....the reason i came up with such a seemingly spurious and irrelevant analogy is precisely to illustrate that there are OTHER and perfectly valid factors as to why there are no disabled managers, you however have decided that there can't be any other factors when it comes to black players other than the colour of their skin.it's not even a view that's garnered much support at all even within the community of black ex-players themselves so i'm just curious as to how you can be so 100% sure of this given there are no surveys that have been carried out and given the fact that no black players have taken up any cases against clubs or the FA for refusal of employment due to race. it's a hell of a presumption for someone who knows nothing of the situation (like me or you) to make is all i'm saying. by the way, i haven't at ANY point said that i don't think race is an issue, i've simply said that before anyone just presumes that's the reason (despite it seemingly being only a very very tiny minority of black players that DO think it's the reason) it might actually be useful to at least canvass the opinion of those that are apparently most affected by it. just saying it's racism solves nothing, you can't resolve the issue by saying that; you need to know exactly where that racism stems from (the players in a team, the chairmen, the boards, the sponsors???) unless you know that then nothing can actually be done to tackle it in the first place. if hundreds of black players came out and said "Yeah that's why i didn't bother" or "That happened to me" then fair enough, let's find out the root of it and sort it out but forgive me for not just wholeheartedly buying into something that about 5 people out of the hundreds of black ex-players have said and none of the rest of them seem to agree with or be even bothered about. if you want to believe an excrutiatingly small minority over a very large majority despite having nothing tangible with which to back up those claims then fair enough but you certainly can't criticise anyone for expecting a serious allegation to actually be backed up by something other than just one stat with no context given to that stat whatsoever. that kind of allegation wouldn't be accepted in any other walk of life in any other industry without evidence and this is no different. if they can supply that then we'll ALL back them 100% (i don't think anyone would dispute that) but at the moment they don't even seem to be bothered to try, they just want people to believe them well... just because. life doesn't work like that and even the same allegations of racism don't work like that in ANY other field either.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 15:32:45 GMT
i don't know...hence several people saying actually asking the black ex-players may well be the best way to answer it rather than letting a white person like yourself just presume. NO-ONE has said or even inferred that black people aren't as good at the job as white people (find one person who has..go on, i dare you!) and you haven't taken anything i said to it's logical conclusion at all (and if you think you have then you either haven't read my posts or have no idea what the phrase actually means). what you've actually done is ignore what people HAVE said and put your own words into people's mouths even though it's in no sense any kind of logical step. i'd just advise you to let momo and shart handle this one mate, they have a bit more about them to be honest and you're kinda embarrassing their standpoint by agreeing with it No I haven't. I've simply asked why there is a disproportionately low number of black managers.
You're right, I haven't taken your argument to its logical conclusion, because it now seems as if there is no logic to it. Despite the facts staring you in the face, (1black manager in 92 league clubs) you can't see a problem and think that by asking black ex-players why these numbers are so low, we may come up with some alternative theory. And I'm embarrassing myself?
Thanks for your advice, but I'm OK with my position on this.
where have i said i can't see a problem then? go on find it! can't can you because i never once said that! you keep going just making things up that people have said and using false logic to decide what THEIR conclusions are eh? are you so arrogant to decide what other's opinions are based on nothing they've actually even said or just too illiterate to realise i haven't once, ever, at any point said the things you're accusing me of? as i said, momo and shart are at least being reasoned, you're just making things up about what people have said and adding nothing to the discussion...leave it to them!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 4, 2014 15:37:05 GMT
i don't know...hence several people saying actually asking the black ex-players may well be the best way to answer it rather than letting a white person like yourself just presume. NO-ONE has said or even inferred that black people aren't as good at the job as white people (find one person who has..go on, i dare you!) and you haven't taken anything i said to it's logical conclusion at all (and if you think you have then you either haven't read my posts or have no idea what the phrase actually means). what you've actually done is ignore what people HAVE said and put your own words into people's mouths even though it's in no sense any kind of logical step. i'd just advise you to let momo and shart handle this one mate, they have a bit more about them to be honest and you're kinda embarrassing their standpoint by agreeing with it No I haven't. I've simply asked why there is a disproportionately low number of black managers.
You're right, I haven't taken your argument to its logical conclusion, because it now seems as if there is no logic to it. Despite the facts staring you in the face, (1black manager in 92 league clubs) you can't see a problem and think that by asking black ex-players why these numbers are so low, we may come up with some alternative theory. And I'm embarrassing myself?
Thanks for your advice, but I'm OK with my position on this.
That fact doesn't point to anything though, you keep stating it but it means nothing without anything to back it up.
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Post by vahl on Sept 4, 2014 15:43:22 GMT
Bu Carpslayer, how else can we explain the disproportionately low number of managers compared to professional players? Please give me the benefit of your wisdom. You need 25 players in a first team squad. You need 1 manager. We're talking about the national game of a country made up of roughly 85% white's. The odds aren't great really, are they? Race is probably the last thing on anybody's mind. It's been said many times before but if anything, black people are over-represented in football considering the population percentage they account for - The UK has 3% black people and yet they make up a combined total of 27% between players and managers. Some would argue this is racist in itself towards anyone who isn't black. Yes some would - but they would be wrong wouldn't they ! I'd agree. Having thought about it, there is little substance to that argument and I feel like I kind of trolled myself by posting it now. Black people are generally a tad more gifted in the athletics department. Just a fact of the human body. It explains the numbers being so exaggerated given the population percentage black people hold. As has been the case for years now due to the ever increasing pace of the game, there are a lot of young black lads making the grade for reasons other than just footballing ability. If you mix the two together, you're generally on to a winner.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 4, 2014 15:54:41 GMT
Bu Carpslayer, how else can we explain the disproportionately low number of managers compared to professional players? Please give me the benefit of your wisdom. You need 25 players in a first team squad. You need 1 manager. We're talking about the national game of a country made up of roughly 85% white's. The odds aren't great really, are they? Race is probably the last thing on anybody's mind. Yes some would - but they would be wrong wouldn't they ! I'd agree. Having thought about it, there is little substance to that argument and I feel like I kind of trolled myself by posting it now. Black people are generally a tad more gifted in the athletics department. Just a fact of the human body. It explains the numbers being so exaggerated given the population percentage black people hold. As has been the case for years now due to the ever increasing pace of the game, there are a lot of young black lads making the grade for reasons other than just footballing ability. If you mix the two together, you're generally on to a winner. There's little substance to that suggestion for sure but it clearly demonstrates that just because there is a disproportionately larger number of one colour over the other in each discipline, it doesn't then automatically scream, racism. You can't have it both ways - although some people are trying to. There are no doubt likely to be many, many factors involved in explaining the disproportionate figures in BOTH examples.
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 4, 2014 16:09:42 GMT
OK, here's a few pertinent points: Maybe there are less black managers because a higher proportion of black players don't fancy doing the badges or the role involved. There is a well known problem with young black lads poorly performing in schools (another problem entirely) www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15387444. If some black players don't have such an academic background then being a manager just won't appeal possibly? Maybe there's a larger percentage of black players who aren't entitled to stay here when their careers completes (from Africa, South and North America) - they have a work permit to be a player which won't transfer to management (without a track record). Just because 27% (figure quoted earlier in this thread) of players are black, doesn't mean that there are 27% of ex-players - who live in this country - who are black. The % of black player in our game has increased steadily over the past 20 or 30 years. Maybe this rise hasn't rippled through completely yet. Managers - especially those at the top (e.g. TP, Wengar, etc.) have been in the game many years. Many managers are brought in from abroad - therefore the colour of the these managers will reflect colour of the top managers in world football.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 4, 2014 16:43:48 GMT
You're basically trivialising the debate now Mick. 98-99% of black players who do so much to make the game great drift out of it. The barriers clearly exist. I think its associated at some level with race, you don't fair enough but don't give me this, there are no disabled managers, no lesbian ban the bomb single mother managers. It's completely irrelevant. it's not though momo.....the reason i came up with such a seemingly spurious and irrelevant analogy is precisely to illustrate that there are OTHER and perfectly valid factors as to why there are no disabled managers, you however have decided that there can't be any other factors when it comes to black players other than the colour of their skin.it's not even a view that's garnered much support at all even within the community of black ex-players themselves so i'm just curious as to how you can be so 100% sure of this given there are no surveys that have been carried out and given the fact that no black players have taken up any cases against clubs or the FA for refusal of employment due to race. it's a hell of a presumption for someone who knows nothing of the situation (like me or you) to make is all i'm saying. by the way, i haven't at ANY point said that i don't think race is an issue, i've simply said that before anyone just presumes that's the reason (despite it seemingly being only a very very tiny minority of black players that DO think it's the reason) it might actually be useful to at least canvass the opinion of those that are apparently most affected by it. just saying it's racism solves nothing, you can't resolve the issue by saying that; you need to know exactly where that racism stems from (the players in a team, the chairmen, the boards, the sponsors???) unless you know that then nothing can actually be done to tackle it in the first place. if hundreds of black players came out and said "Yeah that's why i didn't bother" or "That happened to me" then fair enough, let's find out the root of it and sort it out but forgive me for not just wholeheartedly buying into something that about 5 people out of the hundreds of black ex-players have said and none of the rest of them seem to agree with or be even bothered about. if you want to believe an excrutiatingly small minority over a very large majority despite having nothing tangible with which to back up those claims then fair enough but you certainly can't criticise anyone for expecting a serious allegation to actually be backed up by something other than just one stat with no context given to that stat whatsoever. that kind of allegation wouldn't be accepted in any other walk of life in any other industry without evidence and this is no different. if they can supply that then we'll ALL back them 100% (i don't think anyone would dispute that) but at the moment they don't even seem to be bothered to try, they just want people to believe them well... just because. life doesn't work like that and even the same allegations of racism don't work like that in ANY other field either. I'm still waiting to hear from someone what else categorises this group of people other than race, mick. What is it? Lack of motivation? Interests outside football? This may not be a racist issue but it sure is a racial one.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 4, 2014 16:45:15 GMT
No I haven't. I've simply asked why there is a disproportionately low number of black managers.
You're right, I haven't taken your argument to its logical conclusion, because it now seems as if there is no logic to it. Despite the facts staring you in the face, (1black manager in 92 league clubs) you can't see a problem and think that by asking black ex-players why these numbers are so low, we may come up with some alternative theory. And I'm embarrassing myself?
Thanks for your advice, but I'm OK with my position on this.
where have i said i can't see a problem then? go on find it! can't can you because i never once said that! you keep going just making things up that people have said and using false logic to decide what THEIR conclusions are eh? are you so arrogant to decide what other's opinions are based on nothing they've actually even said or just too illiterate to realise i haven't once, ever, at any point said the things you're accusing me of? as i said, momo and shart are at least being reasoned, you're just making things up about what people have said and adding nothing to the discussion...leave it to them! It is hard work with you, and I really don't know why I bother.
I don't think I am making things up and I hope that I am being consistent and reasonable. I am struggling to understand what your conclusions are. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your "War and Peace" style posts with your random CAPITALS and colloquialisms yeah?
With the use of the word "problem", I was inferring that you didn't think that the disproportionate number of black managers was associated with attitudes towards race and ethnicity. You also suggest that if we were to really investigate this and survey current and former black footballers, we might come up with a different reason for this.
Just to clarify, is that the crux of your argument over the last 5,000 words? I am genuinely confused as to where you are going with this.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 4, 2014 16:57:23 GMT
I believe I said blacks that have pointed to barriers and institutional racism, not specifically black football players speaking out about a lack of management opportunities. I'm sure a search of google will provide you with plenty of examples of blacks who are aware of these types of situations, and those of course are the ones who aren't afraid of any repercussions for being outspoken. So you can't name any black men who claim that racism has prevented them from becoming managers? Interesting that. I think Sol Campbell has said so.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 4, 2014 17:03:51 GMT
Read some of Keith Alexanders' views on racism as the country's first full time black manager. He called it 'the struggle against racism' until the day he died.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 4, 2014 17:19:32 GMT
it's not though momo.....the reason i came up with such a seemingly spurious and irrelevant analogy is precisely to illustrate that there are OTHER and perfectly valid factors as to why there are no disabled managers, you however have decided that there can't be any other factors when it comes to black players other than the colour of their skin.it's not even a view that's garnered much support at all even within the community of black ex-players themselves so i'm just curious as to how you can be so 100% sure of this given there are no surveys that have been carried out and given the fact that no black players have taken up any cases against clubs or the FA for refusal of employment due to race. it's a hell of a presumption for someone who knows nothing of the situation (like me or you) to make is all i'm saying. by the way, i haven't at ANY point said that i don't think race is an issue, i've simply said that before anyone just presumes that's the reason (despite it seemingly being only a very very tiny minority of black players that DO think it's the reason) it might actually be useful to at least canvass the opinion of those that are apparently most affected by it. just saying it's racism solves nothing, you can't resolve the issue by saying that; you need to know exactly where that racism stems from (the players in a team, the chairmen, the boards, the sponsors???) unless you know that then nothing can actually be done to tackle it in the first place. if hundreds of black players came out and said "Yeah that's why i didn't bother" or "That happened to me" then fair enough, let's find out the root of it and sort it out but forgive me for not just wholeheartedly buying into something that about 5 people out of the hundreds of black ex-players have said and none of the rest of them seem to agree with or be even bothered about. if you want to believe an excrutiatingly small minority over a very large majority despite having nothing tangible with which to back up those claims then fair enough but you certainly can't criticise anyone for expecting a serious allegation to actually be backed up by something other than just one stat with no context given to that stat whatsoever. that kind of allegation wouldn't be accepted in any other walk of life in any other industry without evidence and this is no different. if they can supply that then we'll ALL back them 100% (i don't think anyone would dispute that) but at the moment they don't even seem to be bothered to try, they just want people to believe them well... just because. life doesn't work like that and even the same allegations of racism don't work like that in ANY other field either. I'm still waiting to hear from someone what else categorises this group of people other than race, mick. What is it? Lack of motivation? Interests outside football? This may not be a racist issue but it sure is a racial one. Yeah I agree mate - I suspect it most likely will be a racial one rather than a racist one. In the same way there is a disproportionately larger number of black footballers to white footballers. Racial but not racist and ultimately probably having very little to do with football chairman.
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 4, 2014 17:20:19 GMT
So you can't name any black men who claim that racism has prevented them from becoming managers? Interesting that. I think Sol Campbell has said so. But actually it's due to him not doing his badges. Why would a chairman appoint somebody who quit being a footballer 3 years ago and hasn't got off their arse and done the prerequisites for the job? I thinks Sol is like the boy who shouted "wolf": I was just reading Phil Shaw's latest book of football quotes. Taken from page 61: "I believe if I was white, I would have been England captain for more than 10 years..." Sol Campbell 2014. "Big Sol never says a word" Ian Wright 1998. There is racism, but Sol isn't helping the cause against it one iota.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 4, 2014 17:22:33 GMT
So you can't name any black men who claim that racism has prevented them from becoming managers? Interesting that. I think Sol Campbell has said so. It's hardly compelling numbers is it - one? Especially when people like John Barnes and Paul Ince have said that they think he's wrong.
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 4, 2014 17:32:12 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 4, 2014 18:14:09 GMT
I'm not sure if its that article that goes on to say that he never saw a black face in the boardrooms he visited or that he was often stopped on his way into boardrooms for looking like he didn't belong there. Most boardrooms may not be overtly racist but they operate in an ivory tower surrounded by barriers to the average black man. It all adds up.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 4, 2014 18:28:41 GMT
So you can't name any black men who claim that racism has prevented them from becoming managers? Interesting that. I think Sol Campbell has said so.
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Post by AlliG on Sept 4, 2014 18:47:48 GMT
English football may not be overtly racist but it is does reflect a general subconscious racism.
Carpslayer put it perfectly (though he probably didn't mean to) when he said he has worked with hundreds of black people but never for a black person. Over the years I have been in exactly the same position but whereas he accepts this as "normal" I would suggests that this indicates there is a problem in wider society.
I will ask one question.
If I was to do a search on this messageboard for "lazy", what colour would the players attached to that adjective be?
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