|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 3:27:11 GMT
... Guns don't kill people remember... Guns do kill people, just not without help. The problem with giving idiots (reasonably) modern warfare equipment is that the equipment is much cleverer than they are. An Antinov looks nothing like a modern passenger jet, even at 35,000ft; but when you've only got a pair of binoculars and a fire and forget missile system that doesn't understand modern civilian radar codes, you are going to make a mistake at some point. Vlad will make a thorough investigation and send a couple of not-his-boys to Serbia for a stretch. While continuing to strenuously reinforce the message that they are not his-boys. It takes some believing - even accepting this is the Oatie - that posters will believe Western governments - slagged off by one side or another on here, on everything from spying on their own people to feathering their own nests in Europe - are suddenly seen as the biggest bunch of angels to come down to earth since Gabriel and a few mates popped down for a look. What a sickening tragedy for the families and loved ones of those people innocently sitting on board a flight to KL and then on to who knows where; something a great many of us have done (here and on many message boards like this), over the years. Dead to the great, media-fuelled game of Capitalism versus Everyone-Else. Hoorah for us all
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Jul 19, 2014 3:29:31 GMT
What has happened here in Ukraine is nothing short of an 'act of war'. Whoever is responsible should face the most severe of consequences . The fact that Russia is responsible (according to reports) should not affect the punishment , but it will because Russia rules with an 'iron fist' and always has done. In any other circumstance , this action would have prompted a retaliatory attack/action by the other side. In Putin , Russia have a leader that doesn't give a toss and is keen on promoting his persona to that effect. The West may well have skeletons in its cupboard , but the slaughter of innocent civilians in this way just shows what we are all dealing with. For the sake of world peace countries across the world will have to observe restraint because the consequences of retaliatory action cannot bear thinking about.This is an incident that will have to be put to bed sooner rather than later in order to secure world peace. The UN now need to assert their authority in the region and act accordingly to avert further repercussions It's a very disturbing accident that will only escalate tensions in the area. God luck with it. UN authority? thats a contradiction in terms, a joke . just a talking shop .Putin doesnt give a toss about public opinion , and whilst he has his hand on the stop cock that shuts down european gas supplies , the wests only response will be righteous indignation .
|
|
|
Post by elsidibe on Jul 19, 2014 3:31:16 GMT
Time to isolate Russia as big as they are. Make them a pariah state. We should start by telling them to stick the 2018 World Cup right up their arses. Because they may have shot down a plane?
|
|
|
Post by elsidibe on Jul 19, 2014 4:04:58 GMT
It would seem so ....a strange and difficult to comprehend. argument that he is making ......and why on Earth do you suppose that the Black Box is going to Russia ? It's the last place that it should be going to.....surely somewhere in Ukraine , as that's where the aircraft came down or possibly Amsterdam where it departed from , something does not feel quite right about that. I'm afraid I'm sorry, what? You think the black box going to Russia is wrong, or in your words "The last place it should be going"? Why is that? It sounds like you've already been judge, jury & exicutioner here. You've deemed Russia guilty - Ukraine innocent... Based on what exactly? It doesn't matter that the jurisdiction for Ukrainian black box investigations lies with Russia (according to the BBC). Nor does it matter that precisely no full or proper investigation has yet been carried out. The only thing that's important is that The Oatcake has convicted Russia of war crimes based on what the evening news says. Just console yourself with the fact that there's a (marginally) more balanced and sage foreign policy approach being carried out by Whitehall than what's being touted at times on here.
|
|
|
Post by britsabroad on Jul 19, 2014 4:16:32 GMT
... Guns don't kill people remember... Guns do kill people, just not without help. The problem with giving idiots (reasonably) modern warfare equipment is that the equipment is much cleverer than they are. Of course, but certain parts of the media (and most of the oatcake) have already decided Vlad himself pulled the trigger, even though its clearly not the case. All that will do is get the Russians backs to the wall and risk escalating it further.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 4:25:49 GMT
Guns do kill people, just not without help. The problem with giving idiots (reasonably) modern warfare equipment is that the equipment is much cleverer than they are. Of course, but certain parts of the media (and most of the oatcake) have already decided Vlad himself pulled the trigger, even though its clearly not the case. All that will do is get the Russians backs to the wall and risk escalating it further. Oh I'm not getting at you, Brit. Just pointing out that the types of weapon now make all the difference. The mainstream media is (almost) in war mode. Like many on here - and in a lot of other places too, to be fair - it's circle the wagons time, Brit. Stick up for your own; cast the others as villains. Vlad knows what he's doing. He can - in polite society at least - keep denying they are his boys and send a few of them to Siberia for shooting down the plane. While the EU is hooked on Russian gas - and the Chinese offer him an economic partnership (and they are likely to, to keep annoying the US) - then he can keep rattling his sabre and keep hold of his Eastern European buffer-zone. Vlad is no more or less guilty than the rest of the politicians involved. It's a game they have played, for hundreds of years, with the lives of other people.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 8:41:23 GMT
It takes some believing - even accepting this is the Oatie - that posters will believe Western governments - slagged off by one side or another on here, on everything from spying on their own people to feathering their own nests in Europe - are suddenly seen as the biggest bunch of angels to come down to earth since Gabriel and a few mates popped down for a look. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232539/another-malaysian-plane?page=6#ixzz37tw34B5JNot really....even a one eyed , one legged Pakistani lesbian can see that even though certain governments in west are not perfect , they are fucking angelic compared to The Russian government and it's wicked ruthlessness. This precise point is not even debateable ....even if you are a one eyed , one legged Pakistani lesbian with memory impairment . Some people think it's simply clever to slag off the West , when infact it is pretty fucking stupid and idiotic for the reasons they are doing so in most cases. Take the statement above for example. What part has a western government played in this ? Why would any decent person want to raise this ridiculous point when 300 people are dead ? Why not ask why the Russians have not given full access to the crash site ? I could write another 40-50 fucking examples of the utter fucking stupidity and downright lies that some planks on here swallow every time , just because they think they are cleverer.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 9:51:16 GMT
It takes some believing - even accepting this is the Oatie - that posters will believe Western governments - slagged off by one side or another on here, on everything from spying on their own people to feathering their own nests in Europe - are suddenly seen as the biggest bunch of angels to come down to earth since Gabriel and a few mates popped down for a look. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/232539/another-malaysian-plane?page=6#ixzz37tw34B5JNot really....even a one eyed , one legged Pakistani lesbian can see that even though certain governments in west are not perfect , they are fucking angelic compared to The Russian government and it's wicked ruthlessness. This precise point is not even debateable ....even if you are a one eyed , one legged Pakistani lesbian with memory impairment . Some people think it's simply clever to slag off the West , when infact it is pretty fucking stupid and idiotic for the reasons they are doing so in most cases. Take the statement above for example. What part has a western government played in this ? Why would any decent person want to raise this ridiculous point when 300 people are dead ? Why not ask why the Russians have not given full access to the crash site ? I could write another 40-50 fucking examples of the utter fucking stupidity and downright lies that some planks on here swallow every time , just because they think they are cleverer. Because Markets must be expanded, mumf. You know this, come on. The west supported a rebellion on Russia's border. Daft to expect Putin to take that rebellion lying down. Vlad won't have asked his lot to shoot down a passenger jet any more than our lot would. Like I say, that's the problem with either side backing crazies in a world wheree weapons do so much damage. All sides fund crazies ... Vlad just got bit.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 19, 2014 10:50:17 GMT
All's that will have happened is some dozy fucker shot down the wrong plane and nothing more sinister than that imo.
|
|
|
Post by vahl on Jul 19, 2014 14:51:18 GMT
"A senior pro-Russian rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has suggested that many of the victims of the MH17 plane crash may have died days before the plane took off. Igor Girkin said, on the pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna, that he was told by people at the crash site that a "significant number" of the bodies were not fresh. The alleged former Russian military intelligence agent added that he was told the bodies of the victims were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition." SourceHow's that for a spanner in the works.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 20:20:31 GMT
Just seen this, disgraceful... The crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which went down yesterday afternoon after being shot with a missile, is now being looted. This is not only causing issues for the investigation, but also for the families of the victims on board, who will now not be able to recover the lost property of the 298 dead passengers and crew. After the crash, investigators were unable to get to the site quickly and rope it off to preserve evidence. This allowed armed separatists and locals to essentially raid the scene. Suitcases were removed from the wreckage and pillaged. The coldhearted looters stole a variety of personal possessions, but left behind some apparent undesirables: a Minnie Mouse lunchbox, a Winnie the Pooh stuffed animal, family photographs, and intact passports. As for what they took, wallets and credit cards were a favorite. A photojournalist at the scene said, "There isn't a single cellphone, wallet with money or camera to be found in any handbag or on the bodies. It's like they all mysteriously disappeared overnight." Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister (who was also one of the first to blame pro-Russian separatists for the crash) reported that jewelry and credit cards were among the items being pilfered. A post on his Facebook page reads in English, "I have just now received information That Terrorists - Death-hunters collecting Were not Only Cash money and Jewelry of the crashed Boing [sic] passengers died but Also the credit cards of the Victims. Currently They might as well TRY to use Them in Ukraine or Pass Them on to Russia. My humble Request to the Relatives of the Victims to Freeze Their credit cards, so That They will not loose Their assets to Terrorists!" Because investigators and officials arrived after many of the items were already stolen, it is impossible to tell exactly how many items are missing, what they went, or what value they may have had to the investigation TEST
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 21:38:17 GMT
Just seen this, disgraceful... The crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which went down yesterday afternoon after being shot with a missile, is now being looted. This is not only causing issues for the investigation, but also for the families of the victims on board, who will now not be able to recover the lost property of the 298 dead passengers and crew. After the crash, investigators were unable to get to the site quickly and rope it off to preserve evidence. This allowed armed separatists and locals to essentially raid the scene. Suitcases were removed from the wreckage and pillaged. The coldhearted looters stole a variety of personal possessions, but left behind some apparent undesirables: a Minnie Mouse lunchbox, a Winnie the Pooh stuffed animal, family photographs, and intact passports. As for what they took, wallets and credit cards were a favorite. A photojournalist at the scene said, "There isn't a single cellphone, wallet with money or camera to be found in any handbag or on the bodies. It's like they all mysteriously disappeared overnight." Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister (who was also one of the first to blame pro-Russian separatists for the crash) reported that jewelry and credit cards were among the items being pilfered. A post on his Facebook page reads in English, "I have just now received information That Terrorists - Death-hunters collecting Were not Only Cash money and Jewelry of the crashed Boing [sic] passengers died but Also the credit cards of the Victims. Currently They might as well TRY to use Them in Ukraine or Pass Them on to Russia. My humble Request to the Relatives of the Victims to Freeze Their credit cards, so That They will not loose Their assets to Terrorists!" Because investigators and officials arrived after many of the items were already stolen, it is impossible to tell exactly how many items are missing, what they went, or what value they may have had to the investigation TEST Oh Well....As good a reference for the Russian separatists as you are likely to get... Where are these pro Russian 'do gooders' see no evil , hear no evil ... A load of fucking shit . mumf
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 21:54:31 GMT
Just seen this, disgraceful... The crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which went down yesterday afternoon after being shot with a missile, is now being looted. This is not only causing issues for the investigation, but also for the families of the victims on board, who will now not be able to recover the lost property of the 298 dead passengers and crew. After the crash, investigators were unable to get to the site quickly and rope it off to preserve evidence. This allowed armed separatists and locals to essentially raid the scene. Suitcases were removed from the wreckage and pillaged. The coldhearted looters stole a variety of personal possessions, but left behind some apparent undesirables: a Minnie Mouse lunchbox, a Winnie the Pooh stuffed animal, family photographs, and intact passports. As for what they took, wallets and credit cards were a favorite. A photojournalist at the scene said, "There isn't a single cellphone, wallet with money or camera to be found in any handbag or on the bodies. It's like they all mysteriously disappeared overnight." Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister (who was also one of the first to blame pro-Russian separatists for the crash) reported that jewelry and credit cards were among the items being pilfered. A post on his Facebook page reads in English, "I have just now received information That Terrorists - Death-hunters collecting Were not Only Cash money and Jewelry of the crashed Boing [sic] passengers died but Also the credit cards of the Victims. Currently They might as well TRY to use Them in Ukraine or Pass Them on to Russia. My humble Request to the Relatives of the Victims to Freeze Their credit cards, so That They will not loose Their assets to Terrorists!" Because investigators and officials arrived after many of the items were already stolen, it is impossible to tell exactly how many items are missing, what they went, or what value they may have had to the investigation TEST Oh Well....As good a reference for the Russian separatists as you are likely to get... Where are these pro Russian 'do gooders' see no evil , hear no evil ... A load of fucking shit . mumf Charming, i was just posting what i read. TEST
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 21:57:14 GMT
"A senior pro-Russian rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has suggested that many of the victims of the MH17 plane crash may have died days before the plane took off. Igor Girkin said, on the pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna, that he was told by people at the crash site that a "significant number" of the bodies were not fresh. The alleged former Russian military intelligence agent added that he was told the bodies of the victims were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition." SourceHow's that for a spanner in the works. Unbelievable
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 22:09:06 GMT
Guns do kill people, just not without help. The problem with giving idiots (reasonably) modern warfare equipment is that the equipment is much cleverer than they are. Of course, but certain parts of the media (and most of the oatcake) have already decided Vlad himself pulled the trigger, even though its clearly not the case. All that will do is get the Russians backs to the wall and risk escalating it further. I haven't seen anyone on here who has suggested that Putin has pulled the trigger .....but it's quite obvious that they have had an influence on this event , why is the flight recorder in Moscow , why has the offending missile launcher been removed back to Russia and why are pieces of the wreckage also being removed to Russia ?
|
|
|
Post by boothenpaddock86 on Jul 19, 2014 22:24:30 GMT
"A senior pro-Russian rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has suggested that many of the victims of the MH17 plane crash may have died days before the plane took off. Igor Girkin said, on the pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna, that he was told by people at the crash site that a "significant number" of the bodies were not fresh. The alleged former Russian military intelligence agent added that he was told the bodies of the victims were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition." SourceHow's that for a spanner in the works. That's interesting just watched few vids on this forum and few corpses do look decomposed,don't watch dead child one though apparently it's quite disturbing,not seen it myself www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ayjwz/malaysian_plane_crashes_over_the_ukraine/cj01zdm
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 23:08:22 GMT
Captured audio call of terrorists Russian NO TRANSLATION for this moment. This record been released by Security Service of Ukraine. [source, from parent] Translation: 0:20: A: Just now, just now, "Minera" group downed an airplane. It fell on Yenakivo. 0:26: B: Pilots? Where are the pilots? 0:29: A: We're going now to search and take photos of the wreckage. 0:33: B: How long ago? 0:34: A: About 30 minutes. [At this point, video skips ahead to a different conversation, apparently some time later and between two different people] 0:44: C: Yes, "Major" 0:45: D: From Chernuhino, they downed the plane. 0:48: C: Who? 0:49: C: From Chernuhino post, cossacks that are stationed at Chernukino. 0:56: C: The plane broke up in mid-air, near Petropavlosk mine. First 200 (ed: ?). Found first 200 (ed: ?). Civilian. 1:12: D: So what's going on? 1:15: C: Stupid civilian plane. 1:18: D: Understood. Are there many people? 1:20: C: FUBAR. Wreckage falling right in peoples yards. 1:24: D: What model? 1:26: C: I haven't figured it out yet. Haven't yet gotten to the main debris. I'm still where the first bodies fell. 1:31: C: There's wreckage of internal containers, seats, bodies. 1:35: D: Understood. Are there any weapons? 1:37: C: Nothing at all. Civilian stuff, medical supplies, towels, toilet paper. 1:43: D: Any documents? 1:45: C: Yes. Indonesian student. From Thompson university. [Another cut, several more people] 1:52: About that plane shot down near Snezhnovo Torez. It turned out to be a passenger plane. Fell near Grabovo, there's lots of bodies, women and children. Right now the cossacks are inspecting it. 2:03: On TV they are saying AN-26, Ukrainian transport, but are saying it's labeled Malaysian Airlines. 2:12: What was it doing in Ukrainian territory? 2:16: Means it was transporting spies, understood? 2:18: Got it 2:19: Shouldn't fucking fly there. There's a war going on. 2:21: Understood. [Edit: updated last line (2:16) to more accurately reflect original sentiment] perma-linkparent [–]novserj 470 points 2 days ago 200 = Cargo 200 = Code for a dead body
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 23:12:44 GMT
Captured audio call of terrorists Russian NO TRANSLATION for this moment. This record been released by Security Service of Ukraine. [source, from parent] Translation: 0:20: A: Just now, just now, "Minera" group downed an airplane. It fell on Yenakivo. 0:26: B: Pilots? Where are the pilots? 0:29: A: We're going now to search and take photos of the wreckage. 0:33: B: How long ago? 0:34: A: About 30 minutes. [At this point, video skips ahead to a different conversation, apparently some time later and between two different people] 0:44: C: Yes, "Major" 0:45: D: From Chernuhino, they downed the plane. 0:48: C: Who? 0:49: C: From Chernuhino post, cossacks that are stationed at Chernukino. 0:56: C: The plane broke up in mid-air, near Petropavlosk mine. First 200 (ed: ?). Found first 200 (ed: ?). Civilian. 1:12: D: So what's going on? 1:15: C: Stupid civilian plane. 1:18: D: Understood. Are there many people? 1:20: C: FUBAR. Wreckage falling right in peoples yards. 1:24: D: What model? 1:26: C: I haven't figured it out yet. Haven't yet gotten to the main debris. I'm still where the first bodies fell. 1:31: C: There's wreckage of internal containers, seats, bodies. 1:35: D: Understood. Are there any weapons? 1:37: C: Nothing at all. Civilian stuff, medical supplies, towels, toilet paper. 1:43: D: Any documents? 1:45: C: Yes. Indonesian student. From Thompson university. [Another cut, several more people] 1:52: About that plane shot down near Snezhnovo Torez. It turned out to be a passenger plane. Fell near Grabovo, there's lots of bodies, women and children. Right now the cossacks are inspecting it. 2:03: On TV they are saying AN-26, Ukrainian transport, but are saying it's labeled Malaysian Airlines. 2:12: What was it doing in Ukrainian territory? 2:16: Means it was transporting spies, understood? 2:18: Got it 2:19: Shouldn't fucking fly there. There's a war going on. 2:21: Understood. [Edit: updated last line (2:16) to more accurately reflect original sentiment] perma-linkparent [–]novserj 470 points 2 days ago 200 = Cargo 200 = Code for a dead body Surely anybody can interpret that ...as to,what it means ...can't they ?
|
|
|
Post by vahl on Jul 20, 2014 9:51:50 GMT
"A senior pro-Russian rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has suggested that many of the victims of the MH17 plane crash may have died days before the plane took off. Igor Girkin said, on the pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna, that he was told by people at the crash site that a "significant number" of the bodies were not fresh. The alleged former Russian military intelligence agent added that he was told the bodies of the victims were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition." SourceHow's that for a spanner in the works. That's interesting just watched few vids on this forum and few corpses do look decomposed,don't watch dead child one though apparently it's quite disturbing,not seen it myself www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2ayjwz/malaysian_plane_crashes_over_the_ukraine/cj01zdmYeah, some of those pictures are quite disturbing. I saw the child one and instantly flicked it off - I have a young lad and it really made me feel weird seeing it. I wouldn't suggest that anyone looks at that unless you're really strong stomached. The guy that was originally quoted saying "bodies on the plane were already dead" has now apparently said: "We warned them not to fly in our sky. The birdie fell behind the earth dump, didn't affect inhabited areas. Peaceful civilians were not harmed" I think we've found the Russian version of Comical Ali.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 22, 2014 21:17:26 GMT
|
|
|
Post by britsabroad on Jul 23, 2014 0:51:56 GMT
The rebels didnt shoot it down on purpose either; they thought it was something else. I fully expect the above to be the case, but dont forget the Ukranian government went to enormous lengths to try and cover up when they shot down an airliner only a decade ago.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 23, 2014 9:19:07 GMT
The rebels didnt shoot it down on purpose either; they thought it was something else. I fully expect the above to be the case, but dont forget the Ukranian government went to enormous lengths to try and cover up when they shot down an airliner only a decade ago. I know that's what I've said and said from the off hence the gloaty tone!
|
|