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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 20:36:57 GMT
You are strangely scathing on the west while being unusually defensive of any case concerning Russia .....odd ? Not really, I've just said how I find it hard to believe Russia had anything to gain by doing this, whereas I believe Ukraine did. Ukraine have been crying out for the west to get involved from day one... The war-mongering amungst us like William Hague & John McCain have been dying to get us involved since day one. Russia could have bowled into the Ukraine & took over the place with a full milletry invasion anytime they wanted, if that was the outcome they truely wanted. Our Governments on the otherhand have been trying to get us to go nailing countries like Lybia, Syria & now Ukraine for years. You have to forgive me if I'm a bit sceptical of our rulers intentions & whether what they tell us is the truth or not.
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Post by bosanac on Jul 18, 2014 20:37:31 GMT
I'm saying "it's the west this, it's the west that" because they're the only ones who're seemingly hell bent on starting a full scale war, listen to any western leader or western news broadcast.... Russia certainly aren't. and What Putin is doing in Ukraine is no different to what the West has done in any number of places I could mention. We (Britain, America and others) therefore have no moral legitimacy to condemn his actions, however unsavoury they may be. Are you serious? Seriously. I'm new here. I have no idea is this suppose to be a joke, you're really drunk all the time while posting or just brilliantly sarcastic.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 20:40:09 GMT
I'm saying "it's the west this, it's the west that" because they're the only ones who're seemingly hell bent on starting a full scale war, listen to any western leader or western news broadcast.... Russia certainly aren't. and What Putin is doing in Ukraine is no different to what the West has done in any number of places I could mention. We (Britain, America and others) therefore have no moral legitimacy to condemn his actions, however unsavoury they may be. Are you serious? Seriously. I'm new here. I have no idea is this suppose to be a joke, you're really drunk all the time while posting or just brilliantly sarcastic. Nice editing of my post. We both know I didn't say half of that
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 20:48:30 GMT
You are strangely scathing on the west while being unusually defensive of any case concerning Russia .....odd ? Not really, I've just said how I find it hard to believe Russia had anything to gain by doing this, whereas I believe Ukraine did. Ukraine have been crying out for the west to get involved from day one... The war-mongering amungst us like William Hague & John McCain have been dying to get us involved since day one. Russia could have bowled into the Ukraine & took over the place with a full milletry invasion anytime they wanted, if that was the outcome they truely wanted. Our Governments on the otherhand have been trying to get us to go nailing countries like Lybia, Syria & now Ukraine for years. You have to forgive me if I'm a bit sceptical of our rulers intentions & whether what they tell us is the truth or not. You are entitled to your opinions and views of course , also you right to remain sceptical, I am not offering criticism , merely an observation
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 20:51:03 GMT
So......Who fancies emigrating to a better country then..?
Moscow , Siberia , Tankograd , Crimea...?
Operation Barbarossa....Can I put Bish Bash Bosh's name down ?
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Post by bosanac on Jul 18, 2014 20:52:37 GMT
Are you serious? Seriously. I'm new here. I have no idea is this suppose to be a joke, you're really drunk all the time while posting or just brilliantly sarcastic. Nice editing of my post. We both know I didn't say half of that Wow, sorry mate. This whole board is still a bit (ha!) confusing to me. I'll try to edit it to a reasonably sane form later. Apologies once again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 21:02:37 GMT
So......Who fancies emigrating to a better country then..? Moscow , Siberia , Tankograd , Crimea...? Operation Barbarossa....Can I put Bish Bash Bosh's name down ? yes put my name down , I haven't been on a good armed incursion for a long time You won't be bringing the Lada though ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 21:05:14 GMT
So......Who fancies emigrating to a better country then..? Moscow , Siberia , Tankograd , Crimea...? Operation Barbarossa....Can I put Bish Bash Bosh's name down ? yes put my name down , I haven't been on a good armed incursion for a long time You won't be bringing the Lada though ? Have tried using Viagra with your Complan >?
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 18, 2014 21:05:47 GMT
Nice editing of my post. We both know I didn't say half of that Wow, sorry mate. This whole board is still a bit (ha!) confusing to me. I'll try to edit it to a reasonably sane form later. Apologies once again. Part of that was mine and yes I do stand by the whole "the West has done bad things too" statement. Welcome to the board duck.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 21:07:21 GMT
yes put my name down , I haven't been on a good armed incursion for a long time You won't be bringing the Lada though ? Have tried using Viagra with your Complan >? I find it tends to curdle when you do
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 21:15:33 GMT
You are strangely scathing on the west while being unusually defensive of any case concerning Russia .....odd ? Not really, I've just said how I find it hard to believe Russia had anything to gain by doing this, whereas I believe Ukraine did. Ukraine have been crying out for the west to get involved from day one... The war-mongering amungst us like William Hague & John McCain have been dying to get us involved since day one. Russia could have bowled into the Ukraine & took over the place with a full milletry invasion anytime they wanted, if that was the outcome they truely wanted. Our Governments on the otherhand have been trying to get us to go nailing countries like Lybia, Syria & now Ukraine for years. You have to forgive me if I'm a bit sceptical of our rulers intentions & whether what they tell us is the truth or not. The Ukraine has made it intentions of seeking future membership of The EU well know , this has quite plainly set the alarm bells ringing in the corridors of the Kremlin , Russia could not even contemplate one of its former Soviet puppets being a member of a western institution like that ....Clearly they would wish to keep a friendly " buffer " in between themselves and the West ...that I think you will find. Is what the Russians have to gain from this ....they have no intention of letting Ukraine joining the western family , this is why they have taken this action
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Post by penkvillepotter on Jul 18, 2014 21:31:05 GMT
Time to isolate Russia as big as they are. Make them a pariah state. We should start by telling them to stick the 2018 World Cup right up their arses.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 21:35:07 GMT
The Ukraine has made it intentions of seeking future membership of The EU well know , this has quite plainly set the alarm bells ringing in the corridors of the Kremlin , Russia could not even contemplate one of its former Soviet puppets being a member of a western institution like that ....Clearly they would wish to keep a friendly " buffer " in between themselves and the West ...that I think you will find. Is what the Russians have to gain from this ....they have no intention of letting Ukraine joining the western family , this is why they have taken this action Indeed, and can you blame Russia for not being best pleased about it? How do you think America would react if Russia over-threw the Canadian Government & stuck in some illegal pro-Russian Government? Or how about if Scotland vote for independance & they elect some pro-Russia, communist Government? Do you think we'll sit there & let it happen right on our door step? When you answer those questions you can see where Russia are coming from ....... And then if you add in that the world was on Russia's side 'cos they controlled the media, you could then see why it would be in Canada/Scotland/Russia's interests to do what has happened. That doesn't mean they have done, but it certainly makes you have a good think about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 21:36:03 GMT
Time to isolate Russia as big as they are. Make them a pariah state. We should start by telling them to stick the 2018 World Cup right up their arses. Yes....BUT let the build it first. Then fuck 'em off... Ban all communication and trade.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 18, 2014 21:41:53 GMT
This plane was almost certainly shot down by Ukranian rebels aided & abetted by Russia.
Without doubt.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 21:51:00 GMT
The Ukraine has made it intentions of seeking future membership of The EU well know , this has quite plainly set the alarm bells ringing in the corridors of the Kremlin , Russia could not even contemplate one of its former Soviet puppets being a member of a western institution like that ....Clearly they would wish to keep a friendly " buffer " in between themselves and the West ...that I think you will find. Is what the Russians have to gain from this ....they have no intention of letting Ukraine joining the western family , this is why they have taken this action Indeed, and can you blame Russia for not being best pleased about it? How do you think America would react if Russia over-threw the Canadian Government & stuck in some illegal pro-Russian Government? Or how about if Scotland vote for independance & they elect some pro-Russia, communist Government? Do you think we'll sit there & let it happen right on our door step? When you answer those questions you can see where Russia are coming from ....... And then if you add in that the world was on Russia's side 'cos they controlled the media, you could then see why it would be in Canada/Scotland/Russia's interests to do what has happened. That doesn't mean they have done, but it certainly makes you have a good think about it. I am sure that not blaming them is relevant ...but that is clearly the reason ....the scenario about Canada and Scotland is so wide of the mark and hypothetical that I struggle to see why you brought it up ....but as you have, I see your point but it bears no reference and resemblance to the situation regarding Russia and Ukraine , the hypothetical situations that you have illustrated will never happen ....the current situation in Ukraine is and it's turning nasty ...innocent lives are being lost , someone is at great fault here , it's clearly not the west that has carried out these actions ....or the official Ukraine Government , where else do you suggest the blame lies ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 21:56:53 GMT
Indeed, and can you blame Russia for not being best pleased about it? How do you think America would react if Russia over-threw the Canadian Government & stuck in some illegal pro-Russian Government? Or how about if Scotland vote for independance & they elect some pro-Russia, communist Government? Do you think we'll sit there & let it happen right on our door step? When you answer those questions you can see where Russia are coming from ....... And then if you add in that the world was on Russia's side 'cos they controlled the media, you could then see why it would be in Canada/Scotland/Russia's interests to do what has happened. That doesn't mean they have done, but it certainly makes you have a good think about it. I am sure that not blaming them is relevant ...but that is clearly the reason ....the scenario about Canada and Scotland is so wide of the mark and hypothetical that I struggle to see why you brought it up ....but as you have, I see your point but it bears no reference and resemblance to the situation regarding Russia and Ukraine , the hypothetical situations that you have illustrated will never happen ....the current situation in Ukraine is and it's turning nasty ...innocent lives are being lost , someone is at great fault here , it's clearly not the west that has carried out these actions ....or the official Ukraine Government , where else do you suggest the blame lies ? Don't bother...You're wasting your time. There is no oil in the lamp. He's not all there , there's something missing...and it's not the Black Box either..that's on it's way to Moscow...
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 21:58:21 GMT
I am sure that not blaming them is relevant ...but that is clearly the reason ....the scenario about Canada and Scotland is so wide of the mark and hypothetical that I struggle to see why you brought it up ....but as you have, I see your point but it bears no reference and resemblance to the situation regarding Russia and Ukraine , the hypothetical situations that you have illustrated will never happen ....the current situation in Ukraine is and it's turning nasty ...innocent lives are being lost , someone is at great fault here , it's clearly not the west that has carried out these actions ....or the official Ukraine Government , where else do you suggest the blame lies ? I'm sure Russia never thought it'd be a real situation right on their doorstep either, but as it is the western powers overthrew a legitimate Ukraine Government & put in it's place an illegial pro-west Government. I personally think Russia have every right to be rather fucked off about that. Then, just to top it off, when there is a democratic vote held to determine whether some people wish to remain part of this illegal pro-west country, or go & join Russia (Barring in mind most of them are Russian) We suddenly have the bollox to stand up & say this vote is a load of shit & we don't recognise it! Just try & imagine this situation the other way around, could you imagine the outcry!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 22:05:07 GMT
I am sure that not blaming them is relevant ...but that is clearly the reason ....the scenario about Canada and Scotland is so wide of the mark and hypothetical that I struggle to see why you brought it up ....but as you have, I see your point but it bears no reference and resemblance to the situation regarding Russia and Ukraine , the hypothetical situations that you have illustrated will never happen ....the current situation in Ukraine is and it's turning nasty ...innocent lives are being lost , someone is at great fault here , it's clearly not the west that has carried out these actions ....or the official Ukraine Government , where else do you suggest the blame lies ? I'm sure Russia never thought it'd be a real situation right on their doorstep either, but as it is the western powers overthrew a legitimate Ukraine Government & put in it's place an illegial pro-west Government. I personally think Russia have every right to be rather fucked off about that. Then, just to top it off, when there is a democratic vote held to determine whether some people wish to remain part of this illegal pro-west country, or go & join Russia (Barring in mind most of them are Russian) We suddenly have the bollox to stand up & say this vote is a load of shit & we don't recognise it! Just try & imagine this situation the other way around, could you imagine the outcry! It was a cooked up election organised a couple of weeks after Russia. Had made it's move into Ukraine ....designed to capture the vote of the sympathetic pro Russian element ....a laughable attempt to put a legal stamp onto an Illegal action ....if you think that's the right way of doing things ....fair enough
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 22:11:21 GMT
It was a cooked up election organised a couple of weeks after Russia. Had made it's move into Ukraine ....designed to capture the vote of the sympathetic pro Russian element ....a laughable attempt to put a legal stamp onto an Illegal action ....if you think that's the right way of doing things ....fair enough That's your take on the Crimea vote.... What is your stance on the west overthrowing the Ukrainian Government & illegally installing a pro-west Government? I know you love your position on the fence, so just a simple yes or no will do. Was it right what happened in Ukraine when the Government was illegally overthrown & forceabley replaced with a pro-west Government?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 22:11:30 GMT
I am sure that not blaming them is relevant ...but that is clearly the reason ....the scenario about Canada and Scotland is so wide of the mark and hypothetical that I struggle to see why you brought it up ....but as you have, I see your point but it bears no reference and resemblance to the situation regarding Russia and Ukraine , the hypothetical situations that you have illustrated will never happen ....the current situation in Ukraine is and it's turning nasty ...innocent lives are being lost , someone is at great fault here , it's clearly not the west that has carried out these actions ....or the official Ukraine Government , where else do you suggest the blame lies ? Don't bother...You're wasting your time. There is no oil in the lamp. He's not all there , there's something missing...and it's not the Black Box either..that's on it's way to Moscow... It would seem so ....a strange and difficult to comprehend. argument that he is making ......and why on Earth do you suppose that the Black Box is going to Russia ? It's the last place that it should be going to.....surely somewhere in Ukraine , as that's where the aircraft came down or possibly Amsterdam where it departed from , something does not feel quite right about that. I'm afraid
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 22:14:43 GMT
It would seem so ....a strange and difficult to comprehend. argument that he is making ......and why on Earth do you suppose that the Black Box is going to Russia ? It's the last place that it should be going to.....surely somewhere in Ukraine , as that's where the aircraft came down or possibly Amsterdam where it departed from , something does not feel quite right about that. I'm afraid I'm sorry, what? You think the black box going to Russia is wrong, or in your words "The last place it should be going"? Why is that? It sounds like you've already been judge, jury & exicutioner here. You've deemed Russia guilty - Ukraine innocent... Based on what exactly?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 22:15:51 GMT
It was a cooked up election organised a couple of weeks after Russia. Had made it's move into Ukraine ....designed to capture the vote of the sympathetic pro Russian element ....a laughable attempt to put a legal stamp onto an Illegal action ....if you think that's the right way of doing things ....fair enough That's your take on the Crimea vote.... What is your stance on the west overthrowing the Ukrainian Government & illegally installing a pro-west Government? I know you love your position on the fence, so just a simple yes or no will do. Was it right what happened in Ukraine when the Government was illegally overthrown & forceabley replaced with a pro-west Government? On the fence ? Not at all ...I think. Russia is culpable ...is that straight forward enough ?...it would seem that your Avatar does you credit .....a complete load of anti western rhetoric is all that you are spouting
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 22:19:36 GMT
It would seem so ....a strange and difficult to comprehend. argument that he is making ......and why on Earth do you suppose that the Black Box is going to Russia ? It's the last place that it should be going to.....surely somewhere in Ukraine , as that's where the aircraft came down or possibly Amsterdam where it departed from , something does not feel quite right about that. I'm afraid I'm sorry, what? You think the black box going to Russia is wrong, or in your words "The last place it should be going"? Why is that? It sounds like you've already been judge, jury & exicutioner here. You've deemed Russia guilty - Ukraine innocent... Based on what exactly? Why should it be going to Russia ? They have nothing to do with any of this. You say so why is it going there ?........I'm not prepared to argue this anymore it's a complete wast of time , you should go and polish your hammer and sickle
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 22:19:38 GMT
It would seem so ....a strange and difficult to comprehend. argument that he is making ......and why on Earth do you suppose that the Black Box is going to Russia ? It's the last place that it should be going to.....surely somewhere in Ukraine , as that's where the aircraft came down or possibly Amsterdam where it departed from , something does not feel quite right about that. I'm afraid I'm sorry, what? You think the black box going to Russia is wrong, or in your words "The last place it should be going"? Why is that? It sounds like you've already been judge, jury & exicutioner here. You've deemed Russia guilty - Ukraine innocent... Based on what exactly? Based on the fact that full access to the crash site is being denied by the Pro Russian Forces...!! Also the British Government have said tonight that it was fired by the same. Will that do...?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 22:25:04 GMT
I'm sorry, what? You think the black box going to Russia is wrong, or in your words "The last place it should be going"? Why is that? It sounds like you've already been judge, jury & exicutioner here. You've deemed Russia guilty - Ukraine innocent... Based on what exactly? Based on the fact that full access to the crash site is being denied by the Pro Russian Forces...!! Also the British Government have said tonight that it was fired by the same. Will that do...? It will do for me ....End of discussion , if it turns out differently I will hold my hand up,and say I was wrong ....I can't imagine that I will
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 22:27:50 GMT
Why should it be going to Russia ? They have nothing to do with any of this. You say so why is it going there ?........I'm not prepared to argue this anymore it's a complete wast of time , you should go and polish your hammer and sickle If Russia have nothing to do with any of this, why are you saying they're the ones who've done it? Either they have something to do with it or they don't? Which is it? Why would the black box going to Kiev or Washington make it any more legit? You're obviously inferring that Moscow are going to say it was the Ukrainian's fault & they'll be biased..... Are we meant to believe that the Ukrainian's, or the American's are going to be neutral? Kiev would say "Oh yes, sorry about that, it turns out it was us all along, sorry for blaming Russia there old chap". Pull the other one. As for your last sentance, shame on you. You've really let my internet forum name sway your opinion on my beliefs? I was born in the Neck End of Stoke-on-Trent many decades ago, to a family who all came from the Neck End themselves, as did their family. I didn't really believe you were a lion 'cos you've got a picture of three of them in your fucking avatar.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 23:31:21 GMT
What has happened here in Ukraine is nothing short of an 'act of war'.
Whoever is responsible should face the most severe of consequences . The fact that Russia is responsible (according to reports) should not affect the punishment , but it will because Russia rules with an 'iron fist' and always has done. In any other circumstance , this action would have prompted a retaliatory attack/action by the other side. In Putin , Russia have a leader that doesn't give a toss and is keen on promoting his persona to that effect. The West may well have skeletons in its cupboard , but the slaughter of innocent civilians in this way just shows what we are all dealing with. For the sake of world peace countries across the world will have to observe restraint because the consequences of retaliatory action cannot bear thinking about.This is an incident that will have to be put to bed sooner rather than later in order to secure world peace. The UN now need to assert their authority in the region and act accordingly to avert further repercussions
It's a very disturbing accident that will only escalate tensions in the area.
God luck with it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 23:36:52 GMT
What has happened here in Ukraine is nothing short of an 'act of war'. Whoever is responsible should face the most severe of consequences . The fact that Russia is responsible (according to reports) should not affect the punishment , but it will because Russia rules with an 'iron fist' and always has done. In any other circumstance , this action would have prompted a retaliatory attack/action by the other side. In Putin , Russia have a leader that doesn't give a toss and is keen on promoting his persona to that effect. The West may well have skeletons in its cupboard , but the slaughter of innocent civilians in this way just shows what we are all dealing with. For the sake of world peace countries across the world will have to observe restraint because the consequences of retaliatory action cannot bear thinking about.This is an incident that will have to be put to bed sooner rather than later in order to secure world peace. The UN now need to assert their authority in the region and act accordingly to avert further repercussions It's a very disturbing accident that will only escalate tensions in the area. God luck with it. Exactly so ....
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Post by britsabroad on Jul 19, 2014 2:23:45 GMT
This plane was almost certainly shot down by Ukranian rebels aided & abetted by Russia. Without doubt. The images of the launcher going back towards the Russian border on a flat bed minus two of its missiles is pretty damning. Looks like Putin gave the rebels one of his latest toys to help stoke up tensions, although i hardly think 'it's Russia's fault' that they then went and shot down a commercial airliner with it. Guns don't kill people remember...
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