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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 0:14:43 GMT
That's most unlikely ......but we will see ( or we may not ) what the true turn of events is Initial reports are all pointing the finger at Russia or its proxies certainly, and Putin's comments are unusually ambiguous. One look at Russia Today is a vastly different story, mind. So the propaganda war begins. Putin as being ambiguous makes me smile I have to say ...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 0:15:06 GMT
Well....I've a bought a metal detector...that's a start. But in all seriousness Gold prices will surge by at least 10 %. Or more .....think of all the bottle tops though ...that metal detector could be a wise investment It's the blisters incurred by digging that are a bastuurd...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 0:18:54 GMT
Or more .....think of all the bottle tops though ...that metal detector could be a wise investment It's the blisters incurred by digging that are a bastuurd... You are too hands on ....get a little trowel ...plasterers swear by them
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 18, 2014 0:21:42 GMT
Initial reports are all pointing the finger at Russia or its proxies certainly, and Putin's comments are unusually ambiguous. One look at Russia Today is a vastly different story, mind. So the propaganda war begins. Putin as being ambiguous makes me smile I have to say ... I know, hardly his usual style. But some of his comments on the crash are oddly, over-carefully phrased - perhaps poorly translated.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 0:24:44 GMT
When the case against Russia is proven , which I suspect has already been written , then it all comes down to what stance is then taken by the UN the West. Will a ground offensive be considered backing Ukraine ....? Very very dangerous stuff... Its a bit like having a water pistol fight , before Nuclear options are (perish the thought) considered.... Sanctioned will have to be cranked up ten times...to cripple Russia economically. Could we do that though ? Seeing as Russia has most of Europe bent over a barrel as far as it's gas supplies are concerned , the Americans may wish to try it but would Europe be so willing ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 0:25:48 GMT
Putin as being ambiguous makes me smile I have to say ... I know, hardly his usual style. But some of his comments on the crash are oddly, over-carefully phrased - perhaps poorly translated. Guilt ridden perhaps ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 0:30:43 GMT
I could never trust a bare back riding diminutive Bolshevic fucker with a black belt in Judo/karate with the ultimate responsibility and the capability of wiping out the whole of the Human race at the push of a button.
....and I thought that I'd had a shit day....
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 18, 2014 0:33:50 GMT
When the case against Russia is proven , which I suspect has already been written , then it all comes down to what stance is then taken by the UN the West. Will a ground offensive be considered backing Ukraine ....? Very very dangerous stuff... Its a bit like having a water pistol fight , before Nuclear options are (perish the thought) considered.... Sanctioned will have to be cranked up ten times...to cripple Russia economically. Could we do that though ? Seeing as Russia has most of Europe bent over a barrel as far as it's gas supplies are concerned , the Americans may wish to try it but would Europe be so willing ? Exactly. Our celebrated financial sector launders billions in dodgy oligarch cash every year and since we've cunningly destroyed our own coal industry we're dependant on Russia for much of that too. And they're a huge gas supplier to us as you say. So no, even assuming it was Russia wot done it, we wouldn't go much further than a strong tut and headshake.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 0:39:14 GMT
Could we do that though ? Seeing as Russia has most of Europe bent over a barrel as far as it's gas supplies are concerned , the Americans may wish to try it but would Europe be so willing ? Exactly. Our celebrated financial sector launders billions in dodgy oligarch cash every year and since we've cunningly destroyed our own coal industry we're dependant on Russia for much of that too. And they're a huge gas supplier to us as you say. So no, even assuming it was Russia wot done it, we wouldn't go much further than a strong tut and headshake. I cannot even begin to describe how wide of the mark you are .... You don't seem to have any concept of political posturing and the outrage this caused across the globe. I will say no more.
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 18, 2014 0:47:11 GMT
Exactly. Our celebrated financial sector launders billions in dodgy oligarch cash every year and since we've cunningly destroyed our own coal industry we're dependant on Russia for much of that too. And they're a huge gas supplier to us as you say. So no, even assuming it was Russia wot done it, we wouldn't go much further than a strong tut and headshake. I cannot even begin to describe how wide of the mark you are .... You don't seem to have any concept of political posturing and the outrage this caused across the globe. I will say no more. If Gazprom pressed the "OFF" button on our gas supply, our government would fall within weeks, maybe days in winter. Putin knows that, and we know that he knows that. Putin outrages a great many - I get that - but the West only picks fights it thinks it can win easily. And there wouldn't be any winners if we picked a fight with Russia.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 6:10:04 GMT
Yeah that's exactly the same thing, well done, case closed. The Russian's sending up a fighter jet to shoot down a Ukraine fighter on its border, it's frightening close to a surface-to-air missile being launched against a commercial flight 180 miles inside Ukranie. I find it hard to believe that someone as level headed as yourself could have already put the blame 100% on the Russian's for this, I thought only idiots with massive anti-Russia agendas who wanted to send aircraft carriers into the region within minutes of it all starting off would jump to such conclusions so quickly.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 18, 2014 6:52:46 GMT
Good God have you read the papers this morning? They're full of idiots like John McCain giving it everything they've got to get us into the war. "There'll be hell to pay if Russian's did this, & so there should be" (Yet 'strangely' not a word about what'll happen if it was Ukrainian's ..... It's conviniently covered-up what Israel are doing right now too) You already know that the western Governments & media will blame this on Russia & drag us in. It's a load of shit & fuck all to do with us. Stay the fuck out of it. (Just like we always magically manage to stay out of the way when Israel go on the rampage killing innocent Palestinian's.)
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 18, 2014 7:16:28 GMT
Good God have you read the papers this morning? They're full of idiots like John McCain giving it everything they've got to get us into the war. "There'll be hell to pay if Russian's did this, & so there should be" (Yet 'strangely' not a word about what'll happen if it was Ukrainian's ..... It's conviniently covered-up what Israel are doing right now too) You already know that the western Governments & media will blame this on Russia & drag us in. It's a load of shit & fuck all to do with us. Stay the fuck out of it. (Just like we always magically manage to stay out of the way when Israel go on the rampage killing innocent Palestinian's.) This is true. There's a lot of jumping the gun on this, for all sorts of reasons. As I said yesterday, there's still no proper investigation by recognised experts underway. On balance, it seems more likely to be Russians or separatists at this stage - there are more of them apart from anything else - but it's important to keep an open mind, especially when the stakes are so high.
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Post by MrFlirty on Jul 18, 2014 7:23:24 GMT
Am sure the families of the 9 UK residents on the plane would like us to have some input in to what went on. Imagine if it was your family blown up. Not saying start a war but investigation needs to be pushed
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 7:23:28 GMT
298 murdered.somebody has to pay. for what its worth I think whoever downed the military jet the other day has got gung ho and saw this plane in the sky and made one hell of a misstake, confusing a military plane with a passanger plane.this points the fingers at the rebels as surely any military would identify it first. whoever did this deserves the death penalty. just my opinion RIP the innocent
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jul 18, 2014 7:35:18 GMT
298 murdered.somebody has to pay. for what its worth I think whoever downed the military jet the other day has got gung ho and saw this plane in the sky and made one hell of a misstake, confusing a military plane with a passanger plane.this points the fingers at the rebels as surely any military would identify it first. whoever did this deserves the death penalty. just my opinion RIP the innocent I agree with everything you've said, except the use of the word "murdered". I do not believe (or just don't want to) the person/people responsible shot a passenger plane down deliberately.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 7:37:59 GMT
Americans say they have intel that it was a ground to air missile
Russian Because they're fucking crackers? Ukrainians blaming russians?
Or Americans trying to get Europe to apply more sanctions in their usual underhand ways
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jul 18, 2014 9:06:29 GMT
Well that's the world cup 2018 out of the window.
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Post by desman2 on Jul 18, 2014 10:09:10 GMT
Americans say they have intel that it was a ground to air missile Russian Because they're fucking crackers? Ukrainians blaming russians? Or Americans trying to get Europe to apply more sanctions in their usual underhand ways Maybe one of their satelites picked up the launch.
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Post by Northy on Jul 18, 2014 10:51:44 GMT
Could we do that though ? Seeing as Russia has most of Europe bent over a barrel as far as it's gas supplies are concerned , the Americans may wish to try it but would Europe be so willing ? Exactly. Our celebrated financial sector launders billions in dodgy oligarch cash every year and since we've cunningly destroyed our own coal industry we're dependant on Russia for much of that too. And they're a huge gas supplier to us as you say. So no, even assuming it was Russia wot done it, we wouldn't go much further than a strong tut and headshake. We are not dependant on Russia, from about 64% of our gas which is imported, 35% comes from Norway, 10% from Holland and 17% from Qatar on ships in LNG, as long as we keep Norway happy we aren't hit from Russia, most of Europe are though. Our gas stocks which deplete in the winter will be full by August this year, instead of September, owing to the last mild winter, we will have enough for the winter ahead. We need to build more underground storage, many planning applications get objected to and some turned down, we need to be tougher on this and store more to stop us being at the mercy. Will FIFA take the world cup off Russia if it's proven they are involved?
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 18, 2014 11:01:22 GMT
Exactly. Our celebrated financial sector launders billions in dodgy oligarch cash every year and since we've cunningly destroyed our own coal industry we're dependant on Russia for much of that too. And they're a huge gas supplier to us as you say. So no, even assuming it was Russia wot done it, we wouldn't go much further than a strong tut and headshake. We are not dependant on Russia, from about 64% of our gas which is imported, 35% comes from Norway, 10% from Holland and 17% from Qatar on ships in LNG, as long as we keep Norway happy we aren't hit from Russia, most of Europe are though. Our gas stocks which deplete in the winter will be full by August this year, instead of September, owing to the last mild winter, we will have enough for the winter ahead. We need to build more underground storage, many planning applications get objected to and some turned down, we need to be tougher on this and store more to stop us being at the mercy. Will FIFA take the world cup off Russia if it's proven they are involved? I bow to your superior knowledge on gas supplies if that's the case, but we're still very dependent on Russia: www.economist.com/news/briefing/21599408-london-has-more-lose-most-when-it-comes-scaring-oligarchs-honey-trappedWith regard to the World Cup, surely not, even if they did it. FIFA didn't relocate USA 94 6 years after this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 18, 2014 11:11:38 GMT
Americans say they have intel that it was a ground to air missile Russian Because they're fucking crackers? Ukrainians blaming russians? Or Americans trying to get Europe to apply more sanctions in their usual underhand ways Precisely my point earlier Frase, it's difficult to know who to believe anymore. Worrying chest beating from McCain and now Clinton.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 11:24:28 GMT
I cannot even begin to describe how wide of the mark you are .... You don't seem to have any concept of political posturing and the outrage this caused across the globe. I will say no more. If Gazprom pressed the "OFF" button on our gas supply, our government would fall within weeks, maybe days in winter. Putin knows that, and we know that he knows that. Putin outrages a great many - I get that - but the West only picks fights it thinks it can win easily. And there wouldn't be any winners if we picked a fight with Russia. Government would collapse you say?...... Oh I reckon it's a fight worth picking just for that
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Post by Northy on Jul 18, 2014 11:58:02 GMT
We are not dependant on Russia, from about 64% of our gas which is imported, 35% comes from Norway, 10% from Holland and 17% from Qatar on ships in LNG, as long as we keep Norway happy we aren't hit from Russia, most of Europe are though. Our gas stocks which deplete in the winter will be full by August this year, instead of September, owing to the last mild winter, we will have enough for the winter ahead. We need to build more underground storage, many planning applications get objected to and some turned down, we need to be tougher on this and store more to stop us being at the mercy. Will FIFA take the world cup off Russia if it's proven they are involved? I bow to your superior knowledge on gas supplies if that's the case, but we're still very dependent on Russia: www.economist.com/news/briefing/21599408-london-has-more-lose-most-when-it-comes-scaring-oligarchs-honey-trappedWith regard to the World Cup, surely not, even if they did it. FIFA didn't relocate USA 94 6 years after this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655Fook London and their money, at least we will be warm I'm a member of the major energy users council, I have a little bit of inside knowledge, that's why I'm getting solar panels with battery storage before the 2015 winter
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Post by Northy on Jul 18, 2014 12:03:12 GMT
One Australian family has lost 2 family members in each of the recent Malaysian plane disasters, terrible
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 18, 2014 12:28:57 GMT
Fook London and their money, at least we will be warm I'm a member of the major energy users council, I have a little bit of inside knowledge, that's why I'm getting solar panels with battery storage before the 2015 winter Burn the banks; two birds with one stone.
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Post by britsabroad on Jul 18, 2014 12:48:51 GMT
Americans say they have intel that it was a ground to air missile Russian Because they're fucking crackers? Ukrainians blaming russians? Or Americans trying to get Europe to apply more sanctions in their usual underhand ways Russians have form in shooting down airliners. See Korean 007. But then so do Ukraine. See Siberian 1812. Even the US have done it. Iran Air 655. None of them resulted in much more than a strongly worded letter. My money is on Ukrainian separatists cocking up with Russian-donated equipment. As they've not got anything to offer anyone, expect the various governments to come down on them like a tonne of bricks.
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Post by vahl on Jul 18, 2014 12:49:40 GMT
Apparently the 'black box' is already en route to Moscow.
How's that one working then? Why do Russia have the right?
Unless, of course, you have something to cover up immediately.
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Post by elsidibe on Jul 18, 2014 12:59:07 GMT
Apparently the 'black box' is already en route to Moscow. How's that one working then? Why do Russia have the right? Unless, of course, you have something to cover up immediately. From what I understand the Russian air safety bureau still officially has jurisdiction for black box investigations in Ukraine. I'm not sure the black box will have much to say anyway - not as though the pilots or the plane itself would have known what hit them or where it came from.
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 18, 2014 13:15:37 GMT
Americans say they have intel that it was a ground to air missile Russian Because they're fucking crackers? Ukrainians blaming russians? Or Americans trying to get Europe to apply more sanctions in their usual underhand ways In the age of the internet it's not hard to get intel, it was widely reported on twitter that the russian seperatists and some russian media in the immediate aftermouth were bragging about how the seperatists had shot down a Ukrainian army plane with a BUK missile, when it became clear this was a passenger airplane these stories were pulled very quickly. How soon we forget in 70 years from we will fight them on the beaches to we can't fight them they'll cut the gas off, no one wants a war or military action but if you let Putin continue on with his takeover of the Ukraine without any action of any sort being taken against him, where will he go next.
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