|
Post by wuzza on Mar 23, 2022 13:04:53 GMT
Complete guesswork on my part but did they / do they think that MON is the man for such a backroom role in the fullness of time ? Possibly, is that something he'd want though? A lot of the 'move him upstairs' chatter as far as I can see is based wholly on him having that MA in sports directorship. Not yet - I think he still has a point to prove at the coaching level but the mere fact he has such qualifications suggests it’s something he is open to. Would probably suit him domestically too as it would be a role that doesn’t need him at the training ground 7 days a week. All hinges on next season I suppose but I think you are right it’s the management structure we should have.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 23, 2022 12:37:01 GMT
They'll be rich enough to build a time machine soon hopefully to go back and rectify their mistakes. But seriously we analyse things to death on here at times but we got into the Premier League under the Coates family and had 9 relatively trouble free seasons before our disaster season under Hughes/Lambert. There aren't many teams who have done that certainly of a similar size and stature to us anyway and I think we forget how difficult that is to achieve in modern football for clubs like us. The appointment of Lambert was really poor, it was on the back of them thinking they'd landed Flores though which would have been a massive blow but did suggest a plan. Once we appointed Rowett and handed him a war chest and it didn't work out the short/medium term damage was done, we had several expensive millstones around our neck that have hampered us since, from that moment it's been all about balancing the FFP books whilst trying to remain competitive on the pitch. What they need to do going forward is to use this summer as a fresh start to push the club forward. That is key, if we can achieve that we can all look forwards instead of backwards which let's be fair gets tiring as the damage is done. It's a crossroads in the next chapter of our great club that's for sure........ The concern though is that they think they can just do what they did in 2008, and the game is moving on from that. The manager as emperor thing gives you so little leeway and means if you don't get that appointment completely spot on you get the situations we've had in the last few years. That surely can't go on and we just keep on hoping we get the next one right? Complete guesswork on my part but did they / do they think that MON is the man for such a backroom role in the fullness of time ?
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 23, 2022 12:06:44 GMT
Bottom line is that anyone who has put that much money in is free to handle matters as they darn well please and as we had 10 years in the PL after decades away it reasonable to argue that they haven’t made some extremely good decisions in the not too distant past. It’s always going to be a roller coaster ride for a club of our stature but it’s one hell of a nice feeling that ,with backing like theirs, we aren’t ever going to come crashing to the ground Derby style ! I agree Wuzza, although the lack of anything resembling a plan since 2017 worries me. Whose to say that there haven’t been very detailed plans .......that have gone wrong. It happens , especially in the weird old world of football.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 23, 2022 12:00:15 GMT
Whilst we are all really delighted that our owners are mega rich and fans, does it not get you slightly worried that we have been in decline for six years, are closer to League 1 than the Premier League, and have had to move tons of money around to avoid FFP? Being loaded is great for us. Don't you also need a bit more of a plan than chucking money at situations and handing said money to clowns? Bottom line is that anyone who has put that much money in is free to handle matters as they darn well please and as we had 10 years in the PL after decades away it reasonable to argue that they havet made some extremely good decisions in the not too distant past. It’s always going to be a roller coaster ride for a club of our stature but it’s one hell of a nice feeling that ,with backing like theirs, we aren’t ever going to come crashing to the ground Derby style !
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 23, 2022 11:20:21 GMT
This club has had very little luck in the past 160 years or so but the Coates family support in what will be more and more challenging financial times for football in general is certainly one case where we have fallen well and truly on our feet. It’s my bet that FFP will become less and less of an issue as the vast majority of EFL clubs will be struggling just to keep their doors open in the next few years let alone spend up to the limits the regulations impose.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 21, 2022 10:32:28 GMT
Well there is one thing I hope our supporters pick up from all this - the days of billion pound fairy godmothers waiting in the wings to take over even fairly big provincial clubs are well and truly over. Unless you are Chelsea or a massive potential club like Newcastle ( and who would want a take over from that source anyway) things can get pretty dire. Bad recruitment , past mistakes etc are a small price to pay for owners who have the means and goodwill that ours do.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 21, 2022 8:16:33 GMT
Can’t help feeling we have slipped into some sort of parallel universe if Tony Mowbray and Wayne Rooney are being put forward as Managers of SCFC.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 21, 2022 6:33:49 GMT
To say some of those managers were handed a poisoned chalice would be the biggest understatement ever. They had little or no chance of making a go of anything. For what it’s worth TP is clearly streets ahead the best - the ‘wild card’ would be Gary Merson who didn’t do much wrong in the short time he had. (I think people are being a bit generous to Boskamp in the above ratings)
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 20, 2022 7:15:54 GMT
I don't know how many times I have to say it. Until MON comes out after a game and makes a public complaint in the media for the blatant bias against us it will not change. He's got to put the pressure back on to the refs so they know any further bias against us will be pulled up every time. Its no good just shrugging your shoulders and saying oh well. To be fair he did agree with Ange’s comments in the RS interview that in so many words proclaimed the ref was an idiot. I’m not so sure the public condemnation approach works for a manager unless you are a Fergie, a Pep, a Klopp etc - ie someone the refs are scared of because of your media profile. If you are just a Joe Average Manager it probably just sets them against you even more.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 20, 2022 7:08:12 GMT
It’s one of those self perpetuating myths that message boards do so well - A few people (or even one person in the case of serial posters) decide something’s true - in this case Bonham is a league 1 keeper at best - keep repeating and eventually it’s accepted as the baseline ‘truth’. The fact that the bloke has done nothing that justifies the assertion is irrelevant/forgotten.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 19, 2022 17:28:17 GMT
Removing ONeill and the back office structures he has installed will , quite rightly , be a last resort. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from not waiting till the season has played out. If we can stabilise and show some form then great , regroup and go again next season without having to dissect the club and start all over again. It’s very much a waiting game till May. Of course there’s something to be gained what a daft comment. It gives another manager a bit of time to assess the players at the club to see what he needs for next season I repeat it would be ridiculous - not least because it would limit your choice of new manager immensely. What currently successful manager would walk out on a club at this stage of a season ? Anyway it’s my hope the MON hits a successful and settled format and line up and stays.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 19, 2022 17:04:23 GMT
Removing ONeill and the back office structures he has installed will , quite rightly , be a last resort. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from not waiting till the season has played out. If we can stabilise and show some form then great , regroup and go again next season without having to dissect the club and start all over again. It’s very much a waiting game till May.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 18, 2022 13:07:47 GMT
Why did Brian Clough fail at Leeds ? Scale it down a bit but the same reasons probably apply for Jones here. Different set ups , different mentalities - one size doesn’t fit all.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 16:21:52 GMT
Big fan of Gregory’s Girl. Usual question ........where did the years go ?????
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 15:59:48 GMT
A sunny day in Barbados , a beer in hand and Ben Stokes going ballistic. That folks is ‘the life’ !!!
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 12:58:39 GMT
Fair enough for him to think these things but not the sign of someone with a great future in the game to come out in public and say them. In terms of performance I have to admit being confused as to why we didn’t keep him.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 12:00:47 GMT
It’s back to square one with him isn’t it. Unfortunately he is one of those players that when he’s bad he’s bloody awful - a complete liability. Getting the ball forward with urgency instead of stroking it around would help him and the other strikers. We just let the opposition get back into position closing all the space. I'm not against passing out of defence rather than long kicks from the gk but for the life of me I don't understand taking free kicks backwards or the gk rolling the ball to a defender in the box when it almost always comes back to the gk to kick or pass. Yes absolutely - the whole process of getting the ball forward drives me nuts - life is too short for one of our attacks ! Best example of using Campbell was that goal at QPR , single incisive pass puts him through and he finishes brilliantly.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 10:41:14 GMT
Unless Campbell knows something we don't we ain't cashing in on him! So true, prior to injury looked like we would get least 15m for him. Be lucky to get £1.50 now It’s back to square one with him isn’t it. Unfortunately he is one of those players that when he’s bad he’s bloody awful - a complete liability.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 10:31:05 GMT
I agree too. Though it is a false equivalency. Rovers are in league 2. While I don’t like THB and would prefer to see Taylor in there (or Forrester), I don’t doubt that THB would be excelling in league 2. His mistakes would be less likely to be noticed and his strengths would be more apparent. To me the whole scenario was clearly based on finances i.e let an experienced Centre Back on good money go so the money could be used elsewhere and hire a cheaper alternative who may or may not come good. That alternative should have been our own young player - but maybe the terms of his loan to Bristol didn’t allow a recall ?
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 10:19:56 GMT
You didn't answer my question, again. I'll answer yours. I can well see the owners making another duff appointment. I'm terrified they'll appoint another hoofer who bins off the Powells and Bakers and Campbells. The structure of the club needs to change to be able to better support managers and the owners are bullishly continuing to charge in the opposite direction and continue the 'manager as emperor' model that's increasingly outdated. But the current manager has run out of ideas, that much is clear. He's reached the point of no return. So we have to take that risk and hope that a new manager provides, at least, a short-term fillip to get us at least starting to move in the right direction again. Who knows, maybe they'll luck out, maybe they won't. But we're well into the things can't get any worse stage. We look dead under this manager. The way I see it, there are risks attached to each and everyone of those managers in that list, with those risks magnified by the way our owners run the club. My pick would be Rooney but I'm not blind to the potential Paul Cook effect either, and I do wonder if, as absurd as it sounds, the structure at Derby is better suited to him than here... Robins would be the closest pick in terms of style to MON and would ease the transition to a new manager, but he hasn't managed at a club with big expectations and has a very average record outside of Coventry. Some of the others have failed in similar circumstances to ours (Jokanovic and Ismael) and some are untested at a club our size. In normal circumstances I wouldn't be bothered about twisting, but the more I've sat and thought about it the more riskier I think it is right now, even despite our bad run. The risks in keeping this manager are that he simply can't turn it around. He had a similar run last year, got to the summer and built a more expansive side and showed he learned to some degree. Some of the football we played early doors was superb. The collapse has been stark and worrying but I've put my thoughts on that down already. I think we're in a bit of dressing room chaos at the moment because of the amount of short term signings we've had to make to cover for the players we've had to lose for FFP. He alluded to a recruiting a different profile of player last night in his interview so is he opening up to a more physical type of player in the side? If he is, and we won't know, I think we'd be foolish to bin him off right now. Sacking him would restart the clock again. Each to their own and I respect opinions totally, but I have absolutely no appetite for another Coates family special leaving us wide open for yet another disaster. I am reasonably disillusioned with MON at the moment - his tactics leave me cold and frankly I’m getting bored of the inevitable trajectory of every game we play - but I think you have summed up the bigger picture perfectly.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 10:00:41 GMT
Looks what he is - a decent young footballer getting some work experience. Just like Connor Taylor is doing at Bristol Rovers then? Having seen a lot of them both this season I’d much rather have the player that actually is our player (and also a Stoke fan) play for us. BM Couldn’t agree more.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 9:43:46 GMT
Looks what he is - a decent young footballer getting some work experience.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 9:41:32 GMT
We look further and further away from looking like a team that wins consistently than we have under any time under his reign. I completely agree we look further and further away but still stick by my point that we're not far off. I would love to believe that but for me I’m more and more convinced that the tactics MON wants to employ will never produce a consistently winning team especially as we no longer have the financial capacity to buy high (by Championship standards) quality players. We need a strong defence that believes it’s job is to defend , we need some nasty sods who take no prisoners and we need a big bloke up front who never lets the opposition relax. I don’t think any of the above are part of MON’s philosophy and for that reason it looks like the Championship is not a place that he should be plying his trade.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 9:26:33 GMT
What’s to say? They desperately want him to succeed. I’m sure he was integral to so many plans which will have to be torn up again if he and his team goes. If they give him public support it’s a torrent of abuse from supporters and a cynical ‘vote of confidence’ analysis from others. It’s probably a grit your teeth and hope for the best scenario for the rest of the season.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 17, 2022 8:19:57 GMT
My worry is that the style of football MON seems committed to isn’t ever going to get us promoted unless we can sign some very talented players which FFP won’t allow us to do. This pass, pass,pass (ad infinitum) and then lose the ball approach is destined for failure in this league. You need a direct approach that moves the ball with speed , gets it into the opponents box and causes a bit of mayhem. You also need a rock solid straight forward defence - the old ‘you can’t have too many good Centre backs in your squad’ theory has validity. Unless he is willing to become more pragmatic I fear the answer to the OP question is that we are going nowhere except perhaps a relegation struggle. It’s a real shame because the last thing the club needs is to start all over again with a new man having to rebuild all the structures but I fear that is what is going to happen now.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 15, 2022 13:38:00 GMT
The figure of estimated wealth presumably applies to ever owner in the League in which case he is still vastly wealthier than about 95% of them when their figures are quoted and hence he is more than capable of funding a club like SCFC which is the point of concern to us. Add on the funds the rest of the family have and that obviously makes the club even better funded potentially. Whichever angle you look at its good news for the club. They could be the richest family to grace the face of the earth that means nothing in reality. Yes I suppose you can continue to keep financing the mistakes they they repeatedly keep making but if the football club continues on this downward spiral how far does it go before we step in and decide that money is not the ultimate factor in how we would like the club running? John is not his sister, he has built nothing. He has no experience of running a tuck shop let alone a company as big as Stoke City PLC and just because his sister is succesful does not guarantee his success. He has been given a silver spoon his entire life, handed shares in a multi billion dollar company because of his surname and now handed a football club because of his old mans retirement. He has never run a business and continues to prove he knows nothing about running a business if the last 4-6 years are anything to go off. I am absolutely thrilled that we have there wealth and thank goodness we do to continue to cover their costly mistakes in poor business practices. But is it just me that thinks with all the resources we have available that we should be being ran better ? Forget even making a profit for a second as thats almost an impossible feat but can anyone give an example of an area of the club that actually seems to run well ? Media - well below average Matchday experience - well below average Catering - possibly the poorest in the league Engagement with fans - well below average Recruitment (at all levels) - well below average What is our culture, what is our brand, what do we represent. What are the clubs goals ? (Not promotion as thats all clubs goal) but what do they want to be seen as. Do we even have a business plan? We have the vast wealth to get at least a few of the things above right but seemingly do none of it ? Why. It all leads to the same conclusion - Poor leadership - our entire model for the last 2 years at least is 'that'll do'. Three points occur to me - 1. He simply can’t be the imbecile you paint him to be and if he were there are plenty of successful people around him who would step in. 2. What the alternative - this club is deeply unattractive with its record of mediocrity and serving a provincial financially challenged community. 3. All the issues raised concerning the running of the club may have room for improvement but you have to balance that against the season ticket and away travel initiatives which are virtually unique in the football world and worth so much to us supporters.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 15, 2022 11:34:54 GMT
John is worth an estimated 2billion and he owns a quarter share of bet 365 and joint ceo of bet 365 so I don't think he is the fool people think he is. John is a quarter share holder as his last name is Coates. Thats how power dynamic works to ensure the power of owning and running a multi billion dollar company stays in the family all the major shareholders are from the same family. He has not earned or built that, its not impressive. They can't be voted out of their own company. He is worth 2 billion as that is what his shares are worth. He very much needs Denise backing. Always amazes me how folk dont know estimated wealth is tied into assets and shares they own, its not like he has 2 bil sat in the bank. The figure of estimated wealth presumably applies to ever owner in the League in which case he is still vastly wealthier than about 95% of them when their figures are quoted and hence he is more than capable of funding a club like SCFC which is the point of concern to us. Add on the funds the rest of the family have and that obviously makes the club even better funded potentially. Whichever angle you look at its good news for the club.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 14, 2022 20:33:10 GMT
Well they can always start rectifying that by putting up your ticket price by a few quid eh ! 😂yes that’s why they lost 100+ million. They lost it by totally backing the managers trying to provide you with a winning football team to watch with your extremely cheap ticket.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 14, 2022 19:13:52 GMT
So the bottom line is that everyone behind the scenes have done a good job and the owners , as ever , have put in considerable resources to ensure we will be in a position to compete strongly next season. All in all a disappointing day for our West Country friend 🙂 Yeah great job posting 100m quids worth of losses in 2 years. 😂🤦♂️ Well they can always start rectifying that by putting up your ticket price by a few quid eh !
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Mar 14, 2022 17:49:06 GMT
So the bottom line is that everyone behind the scenes have done a good job and the owners , as ever , have put in considerable resources to ensure we will be in a position to compete strongly next season. All in all a disappointing day for our West Country friend 🙂
|
|