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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 15:39:04 GMT
The fact is, nobody got boosted this year. Where’s your science now? Weren’t the jabs supposed to be a few months apart? You’ll deny this because you can’t question anything. Then blame brexit. And call me a conspiracy theorist. Then probably blame brexit again. You’re so brainwashed by politics you can’t reason with anyone or anything. To a point where, someone states a fact, saying covid deaths were recorded with not of, then you try and say I said the opposite. So, there’s no point arguing, because you’ll resort to anything like suggesting I believe that people don’t die from cancer. Enjoy your echo chamber. Contrary to what certain members on this board suggest with their blanket statements about "lefties". I think you raise good questions on covid and you're not alone with your views either. I don't think we can just simply blindly trust what the government told us about covid and critical thinking is very important. Probably not the thread for the discussion though. You should come back into the Israel thread satoshi! I'd love to hear more on your views on that conflict. Don’t encourage him/her. He/she is arguing that covid was some sort of global conspiracy and vaccines did nothing. He/she has argued that because people’s hearts didn’t stop beating due to covid that it didn’t kill people (but distanced himself/herself from applying the same logic to diseases such as dementia, MS and cancer when people have them and die of something else like pneumonia).
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 12:24:02 GMT
You really are useless at arguing your opinion. The fact is, nobody got boosted this year. Where’s your science now? Weren’t the jabs supposed to be a few months apart? You’ll deny this because you can’t question anything. Then blame brexit. And call me a conspiracy theorist. Then probably blame brexit again. You’re so brainwashed by politics you can’t reason with anyone or anything. To a point where, someone states a fact, saying covid deaths were recorded with not of, then you try and say I said the opposite. So, there’s no point arguing, because you’ll resort to anything like suggesting I believe that people don’t die from cancer. Enjoy your echo chamber. We don’t have the same stresses on intensive care units full of covid patients that we had pre vaccine. So clearly having covid and/or having the vaccine helps with immunity. Also the disease strains are not as bad as the initial lot. Covid is not a big deal anymore because we have more immunity to it thanks primarily to vaccines.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 10:02:03 GMT
You don’t like people saying people died from covid as covid doesn’t actually kill people (even if the people who died with covid probably wouldn’t have died when they did if they did not have covid). I pointed out the same is often true of dementia, MS and cancer. It isn’t gas lighting. It is picking at the gigantic hole in your argument that COVID was some conspiracy. Why can’t you accept that although the vast majority were fine with covid, because almost everyone had it, if only 2% die with it that is a massive number of people dying and therefore it was right to try to mitigate that in some way. The excess deaths across the globe don’t lie. Lockdowns were awful for everyone. They have made other things much worse. But they were a necessary evil while the vaccines were being made and administered so that lots more didn’t die or have long term health issues from having covid. I don’t understand why conspiracy theorists claim to know more than doctors and experts who dedicate their lives to studying diseases and saving lives. Covid is now used as an excuse by our goverment for everything. But the facts show (particularly in comparison to other countries) that the way the government run the nhs is causing bigger problems and that brexit is hindering our economy more. Until you apologise for your previous comment you’re welcome to continue washing the sand out of your vagina. You really are useless at arguing your opinion.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 9:54:22 GMT
Do you genuinely think cancer doesn’t cause deaths? Are you for real. I’m talking about covid. You started talking about people with other ailments. Stop your hysterical gas lighting. You don’t like people saying people died from covid as covid doesn’t actually kill people (even if the people who died with covid probably wouldn’t have died when they did if they did not have covid). I pointed out the same is often true of dementia, MS and cancer. It isn’t gas lighting. It is picking at the gigantic hole in your argument that COVID was some conspiracy. Why can’t you accept that although the vast majority were fine with covid, because almost everyone had it, if only 2% die with it that is a massive number of people dying and therefore it was right to try to mitigate that in some way. The excess deaths across the globe don’t lie. Lockdowns were awful for everyone. They have made other things much worse. But they were a necessary evil while the vaccines were being made and administered so that lots more didn’t die or have long term health issues from having covid. I don’t understand why conspiracy theorists claim to know more than doctors and experts who dedicate their lives to studying diseases and saving lives. Covid is now used as an excuse by our goverment for everything. But the facts show (particularly in comparison to other countries) that the way the government run the nhs is causing bigger problems and that brexit is hindering our economy more.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 9:40:14 GMT
I suppose you don’t believe dementia kills either. Or MS. Or cancer. Lots of people who have those diseases die from things like pneumonia because of a weakened immune system. Are they also a conspiracy theory like covid? No they die with it. Which is what I’ve said. All along. What a strange argument. Do you genuinely think cancer doesn’t cause deaths?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 9:38:08 GMT
And so, like covid, presumably you think it is right that people with those medical conditions, governments, doctors and the wider world, consider them as serious. Covid was considered more serious. Didn’t you notice? What are cancer waiting lists like post covid? Covid trumped everything. Imagine if cancer spread through the air. Covid is transmissible between people. Cancer isn’t. So we rightly cut transmission. Cancer waiting lists were scarily high pre COVID and have got much worse because of COVID (the alternative could have been much worse) and it has been made much worse again since COVID due to the government failing to fund the nhs properly, failing to negotiate immediately to end strikes and a massive staff and equipment shortage made worse by government decisions on funding and brexit.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 9:30:46 GMT
I suppose you don’t believe dementia kills either. Or MS. Or cancer. Lots of people who have those diseases die from things like pneumonia because of a weakened immune system. Are they also a conspiracy theory like covid? No they die with it. Which is what I’ve said. All along. What a strange argument. And so, like covid, presumably you think it is right that people with those medical conditions, governments, doctors and the wider world, consider them as serious.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 9:28:26 GMT
As you don’t trust doctors, who do you or your loved ones go to when you are sick or need treatment? I always wonder what the covid conspiracy theorists do in those situations. What are you talking about. The covid narrative always clearly stated within 28 days of a positive test. Which doctors do you and your family not listen to? Oh so is it only about covid you know more about than doctors and the WHO. Why aren’t you giving evidence at the enquiry? It is extraordinary that you hold the critical evidence proving that the entire medical world and every government was involved in manufacturing a massive spike in excess deaths as part of a conspiracy involving literally billions of people. You need to get your message out there. You are guaranteed a Nobel Prize. Alternatively you’re talking bollocks…
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 9:23:43 GMT
I'll carry on believing a hospital consultant thanks all the same. It was always with covid not of covid. That was the entire narrative. It was plastered everywhere. I suppose you don’t believe dementia kills either. Or MS. Or cancer. Lots of people who have those diseases die from things like pneumonia because of a weakened immune system. Are they also a conspiracy theory like covid?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 29, 2023 9:19:56 GMT
Funnily enough there was a consultant on Radio Stoke from the local hospital recently saying how 6 or 7 people were dying every day from COVID during the lockdowns. Quite the scam if they managed to get that many people to volunteer to be 'offed'.. It was with covid. Within 28 days of a positive test to be precise. Anyway let’s not let facts gloss over another wet huddy meltdown. As you don’t trust doctors, who do you or your loved ones go to when you are sick or need treatment? I always wonder what the covid conspiracy theorists do in those situations.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 28, 2023 18:19:39 GMT
That's not like you, Coke, you failed to mention a few things: first, that article is about Germany, whereas you, rather disingenuously, indicated that it was about poverty on the increase in the EU. Second, you neglected to mention that the increase in poverty in Germany was down to the pandemic and inflation, which is doubly odd since these were your go-to excuses for explaining away Brexit impacts! I'm not sure anyone, other than a few dyed in the wool Brexiteers!, has ever claimed the EU to be some kind of "socialist paradise"! Everyone knows competition is a fundamental requirement of many of its policies. What it does do, rightly so imo, is use the proceeds of the profits that arise from the relative successes of free market embracing countries and redistribute them to less developed countries. From those according to their ability to those according to their need. One might almost call it the Christian thing to do. You could call it taxing the rich to give to the needy. You can see why Mr Coke opposes me when I suggest doing the same in this country. He says if we ask the rich to pay as much tax as the poor the rich will leave. The rich nations (net contributors) have not left the EU though on the whole. And the one that did (us) did so because of xenophobia and controlling immigration and a notion of sovereignty that never existed (and certainly doesn’t now - see our Rwanda policy).
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 28, 2023 17:43:16 GMT
yeah , tony blair and his family are rolling in it . pissed off to usa after they f**ked up this country. If he fucked up this country, how would you describe what the tories have done considering absolutely every public service is now worse than it was when they took over from labour, and we all pay much more tax and have less disposable income.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 28, 2023 17:41:51 GMT
And you should be painfully aware the same is happening in Post - Brexit Britain. True, But, We have restored the sovereignty of parliament and the British people can elect the government of their choice. We can elect a government to tax the rich a lot more, or adopt PR, or abolish the monarchy and HoL, or even rejoin the EU. Let the debate continue. It's usually me that engages in whataboutery, pointing out things are worse in other countries. And which of those things you just mentioned weren’t available to us as a member of the EU? The only one in question is the sovereignty of our parliament. Have a look at what has happened with the rwanda policy. We need to leave every international treaty to achieve absolute sovereignty. Every single one.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 28, 2023 15:14:35 GMT
It is why regulations on big business are essential (as well as fair taxation of shareholders and wealth holders). Consumer rights, employee rights, health and safety regulations and product standards are critical. Otherwise the big businesses just do whatever they want and we have a race to the bottom of standards and conditions as they hold all the power and smaller businesses cannot compete. It is one of the reasons leaving the EU was such a grave error as nowhere else on earth regulates big business like within the EU. It doesn’t go far enough but there is no way our government will go further by themselves. Mistake to mention the EU where poverty and inequality is on the increase. www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/03/20/phai-m20.htmlAs any true socialist knows the EU is in the grip of capitalism with 10,000s of corporate lobbyists in Brussels. www.alter-eu.org/corporate-capture-in-europe-when-big-business-dominates-policy-making-and-threatens-our-rightAnd yet businesses have stricter regulations on what they must do for their employees than anywhere else. There are stricter product standard rules in the EU than anywhere else. Consumers have more rights to enforce against businesses in the EU than anywhere else. Why do you think there are so many lobbyists? You don’t need to lobby the Chinese, Russians, Middle Eastern countries etc because businesses get to do whatever they want. Explain why businesses are regulated more for the benefit of consumers and employees in the EU than anywhere else. Tell me how that makes the EU more capitalist than elsewhere.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 28, 2023 14:47:29 GMT
Your Screed is factually incorrect From 1900s to the 1970s the amount of Wealth owned by the top 10% fell steadily to the benefit of the Middle 40% However the Wealth share of the top 10% has grown steadily by more than 50% since 1970 at the expense of the squeezed Middle The bottom 50%'s Share of Wealth of about 20% has hardly altered since 1900 to today I would therefore say Oggy is entirely correct View Attachmentequalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-ukIt’s something that is the same the world over: “In 2021, the ratio of CEO-to-typical-worker compensation was 399-to-1 under the realized measure of CEO pay; that is up from 366-to-1 in 2020 and a big increase from 20-to-1 in 1965 and 59-to-1 in 1989”. www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2021/#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20ratio%20of,%2Dto%2D1%20in%201989. Instead of creating strong “middle classes” that own local businesses and serve as points of pride in communities, the general world economy has moved to massive business oligarchies that provide lesser quality products at generally cheaper prices. It is why regulations on big business are essential (as well as fair taxation of shareholders and wealth holders). Consumer rights, employee rights, health and safety regulations and product standards are critical. Otherwise the big businesses just do whatever they want and we have a race to the bottom of standards and conditions as they hold all the power and smaller businesses cannot compete. It is one of the reasons leaving the EU was such a grave error as nowhere else on earth regulates big business like within the EU. It doesn’t go far enough but there is no way our government will go further by themselves.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 28, 2023 13:05:04 GMT
www.theguardian.com/inequality/2023/nov/27/uk-spends-more-financing-inequality-in-favour-of-rich-than-rest-of-europe-report-finds“When compared with the top five most equal countries, however, inequality costs the UK £128.4bn a year in damage to the economy, communities and individuals.” “The report found that the richest 1% in the UK are the most expensive top 1% group in Europe, paying the lowest taxes of such a group in any large European country. ” “Many of Britain’s deep-seated problems – a broken economy, hollowed-out public services, static and falling living standards, the doubling of child poverty since the late 1970s, and the fall in social resilience – can be traced to the way the economy has been turned into a cash cow for the already rich,” Yet some on here raise doubt in the need to focus tax increases on the most wealthy in the UK on here. I guess they would prefer the “have nots” keep subsiding the “haves”. Tax the rich people more. Improve public services for everyone. Reduce inequality. Reduce poverty. www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/last-year-saw-living-standards-stagnate-and-poverty-rise/The statement in the link you posted that "Britain in the 1970s was one of the most equal of rich countries" and your comment of poverty increasing since the 1970s, prompts me to post the above link. This article was written before the pandemic and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, with the consequential impacts of inflation, energy crisis and economic slowdown, which all cloud the current debate about something that has been deteriorating for decades. As I have repeatedly posted in the past, UK inequality fell for most of the 20th century but things went seriously wrong in the 1970s. (See Figure 1 in reference 1.) My link above shows that a sharp increase in the various measures of poverty and inequality took place in the the Thatcher years, but at least there was a sharp upturn in economic growth, which eventually "trickled down" to the poor when things "levelled out" (excluding housing costs which continued to rise) in the 1990s. The Blair years saw an improving trend initially, but the economy was feeding on a huge increase in personal debt and the poverty trend took an adverse reversal in 2005, well before the banking crisis upset the apple cart in 2008. The lesson is: to fund increased equality, it is essential to genuinely increase the wealth of the nation sufficiently fast. Since 2008 austerity was the order of the day up to the time of the report in the above link, with the nations finances severely impacted by an ever increasing trade deficit from the turn of the century. (Ref.2) This was driven by an even greater growing trade deficit with the EU (Ref. 3) I disagree with your last line summary that the solution is as simple as "Tax the rich people more."
Simply taxing more would only result in a capital flight and talent leaving the country. There are 100,000 of French people working in London to avoid France's taxes. Reaganomics showed that reducing taxes boosts a country's wealth, not that I'm suggesting another bash at "Trussonomics"! What I'm saying is you have to take the wealthy with you by redistributing increased wealth in favour of the poor. Poverty and inequality will not be returned to the 1960s levels without: 1. Re-establishing consistent economic growth rate, such as the 3.68% GDP per head growth from 1955 to 1973 (Ref. 4 & 5) ) 2. Getting back to a trade balance so we "pay our way" in the world, and stop devaluing our currency. 3. Taking direct legislative and budgetary/fiscal action to redistribute the extra wealth created. References 1. www.resolutionfoundation.org/app/uploads/2020/12/The-UKs-wealth-distribution.pdf2. researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8261/CBP-8261.pdf3. www.statista.com/statistics/284750/united-kingdom-uk-total-eu-trade-in-goods-by-trade-value/#:~:text=As%20of%20the%20third%20quarter,of%20around%2031.6%20billion%20pounds 4. www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2009/nov/25/gdp-uk-1948-growth-economy5. www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihxw/pn2You missed this part: “ “The report found that the richest 1% in the UK are the most expensive top 1% group in Europe, paying the lowest taxes of such a group in any large European country. ” So it is utter rubbish to say if we tax the rich more they will flee. Where will they go? To another European nation which taxes them more? We tax the rich less than in France or Germany. Does that mean there are no rich people in France and germany as they have all come here? Why aren’t all rich people in tax free regimes if they just move to where they pay no tax? Do you really think if the Coates family and their businesses had to pay a bit more tax they would leave the country? It is also utter rubbish to say reducing tax increases revenue. Obviously if that were true there would be no taxation whatsoever and the highest revenue as a result. You need a balance. Currently the rich here pay very little tax proportionally compared to everyone else. I am against that model of society as it leads to what we have now: high taxation for most people but rubbish public services and the majority of people really struggling to make ends meet. I would prefer to shift more of the burden on the rich. Make them pay as much proportionally as the rest of us. I am not saying tax the rest of us less. We sadly cannot afford that.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 28, 2023 8:51:32 GMT
Jesus wept it's 2023 FFS, yet we act like we're still locked into the final throes of Empire, no wonder the rest of the world are disgusted by us! "But Mr Mitsotakis's appearance on the the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme had irritated Mr Sunak. A senior Conservative source said: "It became impossible for this meeting to go ahead following commentary regarding the Elgin Marbles prior to it. "Our position is clear - the Elgin Marbles are part of the permanent collection of the British Museum and belong here. It is reckless for any British politician to suggest that this is subject to negotiation." Another dead cat culture war issue. Starmer met the Greek leader to talk like adults. Sunak stood him up and wants to make labour somehow look weak for doing what a statesman should be doing. Anything to deflect from the self made immigration crisis in the tory party
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 27, 2023 13:23:06 GMT
if poverty in the uk is so bad , why are all the illegal immigrants coming here ? what social unrest are you referring to ? Drug stabbings / shootings in liverpool and london ? communities are coherent within their own enclaves there is little that binds one ethnic community to a different ethnic community .i suggest that multiculturalism has failed ? are you being sarcastic when you suggest that sports and hobby clubs are the answer to reducing poverty ? Poverty is terrible here considering the wealth of our nation. 5th or 6th biggest economy in the world. By illegal immigrants I assume you mean asylum seekers. We take very few of them. Far more go to Germany and France, 2 comparable nations to us in terms of wealth and population size.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 27, 2023 7:44:42 GMT
www.theguardian.com/inequality/2023/nov/27/uk-spends-more-financing-inequality-in-favour-of-rich-than-rest-of-europe-report-finds“When compared with the top five most equal countries, however, inequality costs the UK £128.4bn a year in damage to the economy, communities and individuals.” “The report found that the richest 1% in the UK are the most expensive top 1% group in Europe, paying the lowest taxes of such a group in any large European country. ” “Many of Britain’s deep-seated problems – a broken economy, hollowed-out public services, static and falling living standards, the doubling of child poverty since the late 1970s, and the fall in social resilience – can be traced to the way the economy has been turned into a cash cow for the already rich,” Yet some on here raise doubt in the need to focus tax increases on the most wealthy in the UK on here. I guess they would prefer the “have nots” keep subsiding the “haves”. Tax the rich people more. Improve public services for everyone. Reduce inequality. Reduce poverty.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 21:26:03 GMT
When you think just how much tax payer's money has been completely blown on this ridiculous charade! 🤦♂️ Surely it goes against all our brexit britain principles to try to interfere with another country’s laws and therefore sovereignty!
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 19:32:30 GMT
I just don’t like that this recent “discovery” about what happens to assets when people die without a will or relatives to inherit being somehow Charles’ fault! It has been going on for generations. It should obviously change but there we go. It's been a long standing arrangement, but on the understanding that proceeds were recycled into charities - not taken directly by the Duchy for home improvements. That said I doubt Charles knew - probably never thought to ask - or appointed someone to ask for him. Likewise his mother before him. Where Charles is fair game though is that he is the one who claims to want to modernise the monarchy, cut down on pomp and circumstsnce and arcane arrangements and reduce to a core of full time working royals giving value for money. So far he's done anything but. I guess this is a good opportunity for him to change this particular thing (if indeed he has the power to change it).
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 18:43:48 GMT
It is strange how nobody complained about these long standing conventions that have been well known about for years when the Queen was a live. Not sure that's true. There has been plenty over the years about the Queen's tax affairs, exemptions from Inheritance tax fact that payment is purely voluntary etc. There was also quite a chunk about the late Queen in the Paradise Papers about iffy offshore investments. Bother to search and there are plenty of other examples too. However there is a large constituency who either take no interest or just shrug and say 'so what?' aided and abbetted by a compliant press who either don't report it, just play it down or print a photo ofva beatific Kate and just move on. Hence a collective amnesia for such things. However you do make a valid point in that Charles doesn't have the popularity of his mother - so over time some of the shit might start to stick. I just don’t like that this recent “discovery” about what happens to assets when people die without a will or relatives to inherit being somehow Charles’ fault! It has been going on for generations. It should obviously change but there we go.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 13:45:40 GMT
It is strange how nobody complained about these long standing conventions that have been well known about for years when the Queen was a live.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 12:33:48 GMT
I bet you could produce similar charts for the government borrowing, debt, the deficit, and then the state of pretty much every public service: schools, prisons spaces, court waiting lists, teaching vacancies, nursing vacancies, care home staff vacancies etc etc etc. In fact, I challenge someone to name a public service which is running better now than it was when the tories came into power. Have they improved the state of anything at all? The ability to migrate to this country for work, study etc? Has that improved? Some people can come here far easier (non-EU migrants) but EU migrants cannot come here as easily. Net migration has increased enormously post brexit, but is that a good thing at the levels we now have? I would like to think that if we had proper investment in the workforce who are already here, and offers weren’t given to businesses to employ from abroad rather than from here (which the Tories currently do and Labour oppose), levels of net migration would be lower and that would be because the domestic workforce had been upskilled/invested in.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 26, 2023 12:00:34 GMT
Anybody who thinks that the NHS wasn't just as bad under Labour, doesn't know what they're talking about ... I bet you could produce similar charts for the government borrowing, debt, the deficit, and then the state of pretty much every public service: schools, prisons spaces, court waiting lists, teaching vacancies, nursing vacancies, care home staff vacancies etc etc etc. In fact, I challenge someone to name a public service which is running better now than it was when the tories came into power. Have they improved the state of anything at all?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 25, 2023 16:04:58 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 17:16:24 GMT
Perhaps. We know the current tories are incompetent. We cannot definitively say the same about anyone else as they haven’t been in charge. I'd say there's a fair to even chance that a career politician from any party would be considered incompetent by anyone who has to function in the real world. You may well be right. Starmer isn’t a career politician.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 17:13:49 GMT
I also see no difference to what Putin is doing in Ukraine and Netanyahu in Gaza to what is happening here…think about the words you use. That's nothing to do with us, I believe people should look after their own land and the people in it instead of meddling in international affairs that have nothing to do with them. The problem with this country is we have too many 'do gooders' both in parliament and public, they see Britain as a settling area for all the world's waifs and strays at the expense of their own. What a shit show. You can't keep doing that and steer clear of conflict yourselves in the dumping ground you've created You miss the point. Putin and Netanyahu carpet bombing cities and rolling tanks into foreign territory, killing thousands. That is an invasion. A drip feed of asylum seekers coming here the only way they can and then claiming asylum here under laws we have chosen to be part of, and most of them being granted leave to remain living here. That is not an invasion. Do you see the difference? Also, we take very few asylum seekers compared with other rich European nations. So very few actually come here.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 15:28:29 GMT
What is your definition of an invasion? 70'000+ from another part of the world turning up in a space of 2 years unannounced in blow up boats with no passports. Enough to fill old trafford of young fighting age men. Just under half the amount of the whole British armed forces, in 2 years I also see no difference to what Putin is doing in Ukraine and Netanyahu in Gaza to what is happening here…think about the words you use.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 15:26:27 GMT
The Dutch have voted for the anti-islam anti immigration populist. trouble ahead ?37 out of 150 seats. The highest of any party but nobody has agreed to go into coalition with them without them watering down their position. Forming a government will be tough.
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