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Post by jokker on Oct 10, 2024 22:53:35 GMT
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Post by senojbor on Oct 10, 2024 23:14:09 GMT
Obviously the girl had bad experience but it isn't the norm and the vast majority of men and lads don't behave that way.
She really needed to yell to him to back the f*** off.
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Post by tuum on Oct 11, 2024 0:27:21 GMT
Obviously the girl had bad experience but it isn't the norm and the vast majority of men and lads don't behave that way. She really needed to yell to him to back the f*** off. It's a very difficult situation. People react in different ways. I was travelling in Mexico with two girls, both of whom were aged about 28. Both said they had been groped on the subway coming into the city. In a separate incident after they left us they told of travelling on an overnight bus (still in Mexico). Girl A was sitting next to a young Mexican. Girl B was behind sitting next to an old man with his wife across the aisle. Girl A was drinking beer and having a laugh and a joke with the young Mexican and getting steadily tipsy. Girl B was sitting quietly minding her own business. In the middle of the night the silence was broken by Girl A shouting something to the effect of "Get your fucking hands off me!" and a few more expletives. The young Mexican stopped. Meanwhile Girl B carried on quietly minding her own business. When they finally got off the bus Girl B confided to Girl A that she had been repeatedly groped over the course of a few hours by the old man. Later when she told me I asked why she had not shouted out or said anything. Her reply confused me a little she said she didn't want to embarrass his wife. Girl B is a senior consultant surgeon at a top hospital in the UK and yet she felt unable to say anything under those circumstances.This was the first time I became aware of how this issue is dealt with so differently by individuals. It shocked me a little but certainly raised my awareness that women put up with a lot of shit that blokes are either unaware of or tend to dismiss as over-reacting. |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 11, 2024 2:35:11 GMT
Obviously the girl had bad experience but it isn't the norm and the vast majority of men and lads don't behave that way. She really needed to yell to him to back the f*** off. Because it's that easy for a 5ft 3ins woman to stand up to a man who is already feeling emboldened enough to sexually assault her in a public place... Did you read the article? She did confront them and it made it worse: "To exacerbate things, the away fan had two teenage sons with him who started laughing about their dad being able to “penetrate” a girl on a train and when I told him to stop, all hell broke loose. I won’t go into everything they said, but it was cruel and misogynistic. They then started filming me as I was still being assaulted, while someone in the carriage yelled at me to “enjoy it”. The vast majority of men might not behave that way, but the vast majority of men in that train carriage either did behave that way, or were complicit. |
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Post by Squeekster on Oct 11, 2024 10:40:21 GMT
Obviously the girl had bad experience but it isn't the norm and the vast majority of men and lads don't behave that way. She really needed to yell to him to back the f*** off. Because it's that easy for a 5ft 3ins woman to stand up to a man who is already feeling emboldened enough to sexually assault her in a public place... Did you read the article? She did confront them and it made it worse: "To exacerbate things, the away fan had two teenage sons with him who started laughing about their dad being able to “penetrate” a girl on a train and when I told him to stop, all hell broke loose. I won’t go into everything they said, but it was cruel and misogynistic. They then started filming me as I was still being assaulted, while someone in the carriage yelled at me to “enjoy it”. The vast majority of men might not behave that way, but the vast majority of men in that train carriage either did behave that way, or were complicit. I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 11, 2024 10:41:00 GMT
From the account the BTP officers on the station did their best, but I'm surprised that there is no mention of asking her to view the platform CCTV to get an image of the perpetrator.
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Post by lordb on Oct 11, 2024 10:48:03 GMT
Because it's that easy for a 5ft 3ins woman to stand up to a man who is already feeling emboldened enough to sexually assault her in a public place... Did you read the article? She did confront them and it made it worse: "To exacerbate things, the away fan had two teenage sons with him who started laughing about their dad being able to “penetrate” a girl on a train and when I told him to stop, all hell broke loose. I won’t go into everything they said, but it was cruel and misogynistic. They then started filming me as I was still being assaulted, while someone in the carriage yelled at me to “enjoy it”. The vast majority of men might not behave that way, but the vast majority of men in that train carriage either did behave that way, or were complicit. I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. I'm not sure about that at all hope you are right but suspect a large % out there think it's all "a bit of a laugh" |
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Post by skip on Oct 11, 2024 10:49:28 GMT
Obviously the girl had bad experience but it isn't the norm and the vast majority of men and lads don't behave that way. She really needed to yell to him to back the f*** off. Because it's that easy for a 5ft 3ins woman to stand up to a man who is already feeling emboldened enough to sexually assault her in a public place... Did you read the article? She did confront them and it made it worse: "To exacerbate things, the away fan had two teenage sons with him who started laughing about their dad being able to “penetrate” a girl on a train and when I told him to stop, all hell broke loose. I won’t go into everything they said, but it was cruel and misogynistic. They then started filming me as I was still being assaulted, while someone in the carriage yelled at me to “enjoy it”. The vast majority of men might not behave that way, but the vast majority of men in that train carriage either did behave that way, or were complicit. Male football fans have to got to step up and intervene. Any of these women could you daughter. |
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Post by doctortheopolis on Oct 11, 2024 12:32:51 GMT
We were coming back from an away game at Preston a couple of years ago and while we were on the platform waiting for the train home, a Stoke fan who was absolutely twatted and on his own latched onto one of my mates. This guy was away with the fairies and said he hadn't even got to the game as he had been arrested. We made it subtly clear that we weren't really interested in his inane ramblings but he still sat near us and passed out. Closer to home, a young lady came and sat on the seat opposite our "friend". By this time, he had woken up and he took an instant liking to her. His comments were really inappropriate and the young lady started getting gradually more and more uncomfortable with the situation. You could see how it could develop so one of our lot shouted up to her that there was a spare seat next to him if she wanted to use that. She didn't need a second invitation and thanked us over and over again. I have no doubt that it could have led to something more sinister if we hadn't acted.
My 16 year daughter has a season ticket and comes with us - she likes the banter in the pub and the general craic. I would really like to think that if she got into a situation at a match (or anywhere) without me that there would be someone there to look out for her but it is clearly not a given. The Brentford fan and his sons are clearly not those types who would.
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Post by jokker on Oct 11, 2024 12:34:00 GMT
Because it's that easy for a 5ft 3ins woman to stand up to a man who is already feeling emboldened enough to sexually assault her in a public place... Did you read the article? She did confront them and it made it worse: "To exacerbate things, the away fan had two teenage sons with him who started laughing about their dad being able to “penetrate” a girl on a train and when I told him to stop, all hell broke loose. I won’t go into everything they said, but it was cruel and misogynistic. They then started filming me as I was still being assaulted, while someone in the carriage yelled at me to “enjoy it”. The vast majority of men might not behave that way, but the vast majority of men in that train carriage either did behave that way, or were complicit. I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. Then why didn't they??? The train was full of people, and if you've ever been on a post match train you'll know the vast majority are men, yet they all either took part or turned a blind eye. Yes they were complicit. |
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Post by ihaveadream on Oct 11, 2024 12:45:33 GMT
Obviously the girl had bad experience but it isn't the norm and the vast majority of men and lads don't behave that way. She really needed to yell to him to back the f*** off. It's a very difficult situation. People react in different ways. I was travelling in Mexico with two girls, both of whom were aged about 28. Both said they had been groped on the subway coming into the city. In a separate incident after they left us they told of travelling on an overnight bus (still in Mexico). Girl A was sitting next to a young Mexican. Girl B was behind sitting next to an old man with his wife across the aisle. Girl A was drinking beer and having a laugh and a joke with the young Mexican and getting steadily tipsy. Girl B was sitting quietly minding her own business. In the middle of the night the silence was broken by Girl A shouting something to the effect of "Get your fucking hands off me!" and a few more expletives. The young Mexican stopped. Meanwhile Girl B carried on quietly minding her own business. When they finally got off the bus Girl B confided to Girl A that she had been repeatedly groped over the course of a few hours by the old man. Later when she told me I asked why she had not shouted out or said anything. Her reply confused me a little she said she didn't want to embarrass his wife. Girl B is a senior consultant surgeon at a top hospital in the UK and yet she felt unable to say anything under those circumstances.This was the first time I became aware of how this issue is dealt with so differently by individuals. It shocked me a little but certainly raised my awareness that women put up with a lot of shit that blokes are either unaware of or tend to dismiss as over-reacting. Girl B's actions seem strange. Surely the wife should have been informed about her husband's actions, I would say she had a right to know. |
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Post by senojbor on Oct 11, 2024 12:53:16 GMT
I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. Then why didn't they??? The train was full of people, and if you've ever been on a post match train you'll know the vast majority are men, yet they all either took part or turned a blind eye. Yes they were complicit. I really don't know the situation but if the girl did raise an alarm or shouted out I'm sure people would have come to her aid. I know I would and so would others. |
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Post by jokker on Oct 11, 2024 15:57:27 GMT
Then why didn't they??? The train was full of people, and if you've ever been on a post match train you'll know the vast majority are men, yet they all either took part or turned a blind eye. Yes they were complicit. I really don't know the situation but if the girl did raise an alarm or shouted out I'm sure people would have come to her aid. I know I would and so would others. You still haven't read the article, have you? She shouted out and no people came to her aid. |
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Post by Squeekster on Oct 11, 2024 16:00:38 GMT
I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. Then why didn't they??? The train was full of people, and if you've ever been on a post match train you'll know the vast majority are men, yet they all either took part or turned a blind eye. Yes they were complicit. She didn't ask |
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UNKLE
Youth Player
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Post by UNKLE on Oct 11, 2024 16:09:40 GMT
From the account the BTP officers on the station did their best, but I'm surprised that there is no mention of asking her to view the platform CCTV to get an image of the perpetrator. According to the Griffin Park Grapevine the accused was picked out at West Ham away. |
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Post by sticky on Oct 11, 2024 16:56:54 GMT
Must be cctv everywhere, surely the powers that be could have easily helped identify him, not that it makes it right of course.
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Post by madnellie on Oct 11, 2024 17:49:32 GMT
Must be cctv everywhere, surely the powers that be could have easily helped identify him, not that it makes it right of course. She went right to the BTP and had a statement taken, so you’d hope they’re checking the CCTV! |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 11, 2024 17:58:51 GMT
Because it's that easy for a 5ft 3ins woman to stand up to a man who is already feeling emboldened enough to sexually assault her in a public place... Did you read the article? She did confront them and it made it worse: "To exacerbate things, the away fan had two teenage sons with him who started laughing about their dad being able to “penetrate” a girl on a train and when I told him to stop, all hell broke loose. I won’t go into everything they said, but it was cruel and misogynistic. They then started filming me as I was still being assaulted, while someone in the carriage yelled at me to “enjoy it”. The vast majority of men might not behave that way, but the vast majority of men in that train carriage either did behave that way, or were complicit. I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. I would love that to be true, but that’s not my experience, Squeeks. The bystander effect is very real and if anyone does speak up in situations like this it’s usually another woman, because many of us (myself and many of my friends included) have been in a very similar situation ourselves. As a woman my heart breaks for her, I can only imagine how terrified she must have been and every single person who witnessed that and chose to do nothing is complicit. Men, women, everyone - if you’re afraid to intervene, that’s understandable but please do SOMETHING. Text the BTP to meet you at the next station. Pull the emergency alarm. Make sure that woman knows that someone gave a shit. |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 11, 2024 18:00:37 GMT
From the account the BTP officers on the station did their best, but I'm surprised that there is no mention of asking her to view the platform CCTV to get an image of the perpetrator. According to the Griffin Park Grapevine the accused was picked out at West Ham away. That’s great news, thanks for the update! |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 11, 2024 18:08:05 GMT
Because it's that easy for a 5ft 3ins woman to stand up to a man who is already feeling emboldened enough to sexually assault her in a public place... Did you read the article? She did confront them and it made it worse: "To exacerbate things, the away fan had two teenage sons with him who started laughing about their dad being able to “penetrate” a girl on a train and when I told him to stop, all hell broke loose. I won’t go into everything they said, but it was cruel and misogynistic. They then started filming me as I was still being assaulted, while someone in the carriage yelled at me to “enjoy it”. The vast majority of men might not behave that way, but the vast majority of men in that train carriage either did behave that way, or were complicit. Male football fans have to got to step up and intervene. Any of these women could you daughter. Well said, skip. 1 in 4 women in the UK will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Most men have at least four women they care deeply about, whether relatives, lovers or friends. So the odds are it will happen to a woman you’re very close to. Be the person you would want to be there if it was happening someone you loved. |
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Post by J-Roar on Oct 11, 2024 19:08:59 GMT
Then why didn't they??? The train was full of people, and if you've ever been on a post match train you'll know the vast majority are men, yet they all either took part or turned a blind eye. Yes they were complicit. She didn't ask So shouting out and then telling TFL staff isn't asking? |
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 11, 2024 19:23:28 GMT
Because it's that easy for a 5ft 3ins woman to stand up to a man who is already feeling emboldened enough to sexually assault her in a public place... Did you read the article? She did confront them and it made it worse: "To exacerbate things, the away fan had two teenage sons with him who started laughing about their dad being able to “penetrate” a girl on a train and when I told him to stop, all hell broke loose. I won’t go into everything they said, but it was cruel and misogynistic. They then started filming me as I was still being assaulted, while someone in the carriage yelled at me to “enjoy it”. The vast majority of men might not behave that way, but the vast majority of men in that train carriage either did behave that way, or were complicit. I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. Why didn't they then? If his sons were laughing at it and crudely egging him on it wasn't an incident which wouldn't have been noticed by those in the same carriage. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 11, 2024 19:33:07 GMT
I shall always be grateful to a man who helped me out when I was walking home from a match many moons ago as a 13/14 year old. As I reached the point where the crowds thinned out I became aware of two older teenage boys obviously following me. One eventually took hold of my hand. I saw this man walking towards us and decided to ask for his help. The boy holding my hand told him I was his girl friend but I was so relieved when he didn't believe them and stayed with me until we were certain they had disappeared. I often wonder what would have happened if he had taken the easy option and ignored me.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 11, 2024 19:53:53 GMT
I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. I would love that to be true, but that’s not my experience, Squeeks. The bystander effect is very real and if anyone does speak up in situations like this it’s usually another woman, because many of us (myself and many of my friends included) have been in a very similar situation ourselves. As a woman my heart breaks for her, I can only imagine how terrified she must have been and every single person who witnessed that and chose to do nothing is complicit. Men, women, everyone - if you’re afraid to intervene, that’s understandable but please do SOMETHING. Text the BTP to meet you at the next station. Pull the emergency alarm. Make sure that woman knows that someone gave a shit. See this Facebook post from Chris Paouros, a Spurs fan, about the Women at the Lane group, set up to tackle this problem. www.facebook.com/chris.paourosBTP strongly promote their text number of 61016 to report incidents or problems. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 11, 2024 19:57:54 GMT
Girl B's actions seem strange. Surely the wife should have been informed about her husband's actions, I would say she had a right to know. It's easy to say but can you honestly say you've never been in a position where your reaction wasn't perfectly logical? |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 11, 2024 20:00:01 GMT
Well said, skip. 1 in 4 women in the UK will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Most men have at least four women they care deeply about, whether relatives, lovers or friends. So the odds are it will happen to a woman you’re very close to. Be the person you would want to be there if it was happening someone you loved. More than one of my friends have been raped. None of the attackers had any consequences aside from a bit of awkwardness when they had to get their friends to cut my friends out of the social groups. I was shocked. It's hard for a lot of blokes because we don't notice it, or we aren't rapists so we don't think of looking out for the signs. |
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Post by smithypotter on Oct 11, 2024 21:00:17 GMT
Other countries have women only trains due to the male demographic in said countries viewing them as second class citizens. To be honest I wouldn't be against it for the UK either in this day and age sadly especially for match days where women who aren't attending the games need to access public transport.
It's already anxious enough when I've been on a train minding my own business but realising it's a Friday/saturday evening coming into the city centre between Edinburgh/Glasgow way. I've been spat at by a younger drunken lady unprovoked, had a group of drunken lads bothering me even though I had my headphones in. Admittedly they are isolated incidents but it's enough to keep your mind racing every time you encounter drunk folk on a train.
So with that said, I can't imagine how much more anxious and more importantly, vulnerable, this makes a girl feel when she's surrounded by multiple carriages of loud, obnoxious drunk males towering over her. The unpredictability of drunken people in an enclosed space you cannot escape from is seriously unnerving.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 11, 2024 21:11:05 GMT
I'm sure there would of been plenty on train mate that would of helped. I would love that to be true, but that’s not my experience, Squeeks. The bystander effect is very real and if anyone does speak up in situations like this it’s usually another woman, because many of us (myself and many of my friends included) have been in a very similar situation ourselves. As a woman my heart breaks for her, I can only imagine how terrified she must have been and every single person who witnessed that and chose to do nothing is complicit. Men, women, everyone - if you’re afraid to intervene, that’s understandable but please do SOMETHING. Text the BTP to meet you at the next station. Pull the emergency alarm. Make sure that woman knows that someone gave a shit. Misogynistic idiots that pollute our society (you see it on this board sadly) are a huge issue. Those that think “it’s just banter” fail to understand the full impact of it and unfortunately many men go one step further and turn into full blown sexual predators. It should be called out…… |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 11, 2024 21:12:45 GMT
Girl B's actions seem strange. Surely the wife should have been informed about her husband's actions, I would say she had a right to know. It's easy to say but can you honestly say you've never been in a position where your reaction wasn't perfectly logical? Very true. And to be honest, we shouldn't be asking why the victim did or didn't do anything. She's a victim, she should never have been put in that situation to begin with, and there is absolutely no responsibilty or blame on her, whatever she does. The only person who has questions to answer is the offender. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 11, 2024 21:42:07 GMT
It's easy to say but can you honestly say you've never been in a position where your reaction wasn't perfectly logical? Very true. And to be honest, we shouldn't be asking why the victim did or didn't do anything. She's a victim, she should never have been put in that situation to begin with, and there is absolutely no responsibilty or blame on her, whatever she does. The only person who has questions to answer is the offender. I think it's hard for a lot of blokes to realise because we just hardly ever get put in the same situations. And loads of us have women friends or fuck buddies or whatever where there really is banter. Plus we want to believe people are ok overall so we see stuff and think it's banter even when it's not. Being a bit open minded to work out *why* a lot of men don't recognise it when shit's gone bad could help. I think the fact that a load of us aren't sexual abusers means that we're just not properly on the lookout. And then you feel like you're getting unfairly blamed for stuff some other wanker did. I agree all blame is only on the abuser btw. |
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