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Post by senojbor on Oct 15, 2024 20:07:34 GMT
Personal insults eh I don't know how other people bring there daughters up but mine have been fine. I have a 3 and we've certainly given them good advice. I'd tell them to avoid situations like that, traveling alone on a train with a load of pissed up away fans. I or their mother would pick them up whatever time of day or night. I'd tell them to avoid certain taxi firms too. Just general stuff. It's how it is unfortunately. Tell me then. What would you tell your daughter to do. i'm listening? So in your little black and white world, your daughters would never get themselves into a sticky situation because you have told them to avoid it? And if they did, they should simply tell the men to fuck off and if they don't do as they say, well that's life unfortunately because you can't stop it from happening. Again, it's a really shitty attitude, and I'm not sorry that it offended you to be honest. Last post and I don't intend to give fuel to a keyboard warrior. Never did I say or imply it was the girls fault. Of course it isn't. It's hugely unwise though for anyone to travel home on a train full of away supporters, girls or lads. That was the point I was making and you choose not to read what I wrote. You've not even said what you would advise by answering the question. That's if you even have any experience of parenting. |
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Post by FranktheRabbit on Oct 15, 2024 21:22:55 GMT
So in your little black and white world, your daughters would never get themselves into a sticky situation because you have told them to avoid it? And if they did, they should simply tell the men to fuck off and if they don't do as they say, well that's life unfortunately because you can't stop it from happening. Again, it's a really shitty attitude, and I'm not sorry that it offended you to be honest. Last post and I don't intend to give fuel to a keyboard warrior. Never did I say or imply it was the girls fault. Of course it isn't. It's hugely unwise though for anyone to travel home on a train full of away supporters, girls or lads. That was the point I was making and you choose not to read what I wrote. You've not even said what you would advise by answering the question. That's if you even have any experience of parenting. I’m not a keyboard warrior though am I? I rarely cause confrontation, especially on the internet. I’m not aggressive, I’m just telling you what you wrote sounded shitty. If you said those exact words in front of me, I’d still challenge you on it. You don’t have to like my opinion, you shouldn’t share yours on the internet if you don’t want a response and choose to get insulted by it. Maybe you should at least read back what you post if you’re trying to make a different point. I’m not the only one to take it the way I did. A shitty, black and white, blasé opinion, it is what it is, get over it kind of thing. I do a decent job of parenting two girls thanks. I’m not about to share my parenting techniques on The Oatcake. Thanks for the offer though. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 15, 2024 23:51:17 GMT
What a shitty attitude. Hope you don’t have daughters. Personal insults eh I don't know how other people bring there daughters up but mine have been fine. I have a 3 and we've certainly given them good advice. I'd tell them to avoid situations like that, traveling alone on a train with a load of pissed up away fans. I or their mother would pick them up whatever time of day or night. I'd tell them to avoid certain taxi firms too. Just general stuff. It's how it is unfortunately. Tell me then. What would you tell your daughter to do. i'm listening? You obviously do the best you can to keep your daughters safe but I would question whether always picking them up is the best in the long term. We too used to pick up both our daughter and son when they first started to go out but you have to let them start looking after themselves at some point and it is better to do that while they are living at and returning home rather than when they move away for uni or job. That is when you have to hope that she doesn't meet one of these groups of young men. |
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Post by jokker on Oct 18, 2024 17:43:50 GMT
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Post by milton58 on Oct 18, 2024 17:52:01 GMT
unfortunately it's the world we live in nothing can be said because someone will be offended |
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Post by skip on Oct 18, 2024 18:00:21 GMT
unfortunately it's the world we live in nothing can be said because someone will be offended BS. Be an agent of change, man. |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 18, 2024 18:21:28 GMT
How can I hate women? My mum's one.
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 18, 2024 18:39:26 GMT
unfortunately it's the world we live in nothing can be said because someone will be offended I can't get my head around what that means tbh? Are you saying that someone wouldn't be able to speak out about sexual violence in case someone else is offended??? or is this an ironic joke that's gone over my head? |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 18, 2024 18:53:56 GMT
Ok so basically “all men” must be held accountable for a few brain dead knob heads? I see.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Oct 18, 2024 18:58:41 GMT
More division mainly caused by the media. Gender, race, age, religion...
Never wealth though, because none of the world's problems are the result of that.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 18, 2024 21:22:31 GMT
Is hardly a regular thing although not excusing it obviously
Is a few idiots out of hundreds of thousands who attend football every week
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Post by neckender78 on Oct 18, 2024 21:28:44 GMT
How can I hate women? My mum's one. Chris Finch biggest IQ of of anyone I know |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 18, 2024 21:39:51 GMT
How can I hate women? My mum's one. Chris Finch biggest IQ of of anyone I know With his pump action yoghurt rifle What a horrible character he was |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 19, 2024 0:30:35 GMT
Is hardly a regular thing although not excusing it obviously Is a few idiots out of hundreds of thousands who attend football every week Unfortunately it is a regular thing, Muff. The article goes into that. |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 19, 2024 0:33:25 GMT
Ok so basically “all men” must be held accountable for a few brain dead knob heads? I see. That's not even remotely what the article is saying, Badge. |
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Post by lordb on Oct 19, 2024 5:05:27 GMT
Ok so basically “all men” must be held accountable for a few brain dead knob heads? I see. That's entirely in your head Paranoid nonsense |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 19, 2024 7:46:23 GMT
Is hardly a regular thing although not excusing it obviously Is a few idiots out of hundreds of thousands who attend football every week Unfortunately it is a regular thing, Muff. The article goes into that. Was a couple of years ago a male stripper had to run for it as I think was the Arsenal ladies team literally molested him at a Xmas party and was laughed off in one paper as harmless fun. Am sure roles reversed it would have very different |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 19, 2024 8:02:01 GMT
Unfortunately it is a regular thing, Muff. The article goes into that. Was a couple of years ago a male stripper had to run for it as I think was the Arsenal ladies team literally molested him at a Xmas party and was laughed off in one paper as harmless fun. Am sure roles reversed it would have very different That was me muff. I've always been able to handle the groping and leering and the most graphic of comments but there was no way I was shagging a gooner....fuck that 😆 |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 19, 2024 8:06:00 GMT
Was a couple of years ago a male stripper had to run for it as I think was the Arsenal ladies team literally molested him at a Xmas party and was laughed off in one paper as harmless fun. Am sure roles reversed it would have very different That was me muff. I've always been able to handle the groping and leering and the most graphic of comments but there was no way I was shagging a gooner....fuck that 😆 😁 To be fair I think a few of the mens team would want to join in looking at them |
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Post by farfromhere on Oct 19, 2024 8:08:07 GMT
Unfortunately it is a regular thing, Muff. The article goes into that. Was a couple of years ago a male stripper had to run for it as I think was the Arsenal ladies team literally molested him at a Xmas party and was laughed off in one paper as harmless fun. Am sure roles reversed it would have very different That is just as bad. We all have the opportunity to bring our own experiences to this discussion whether we're men or women who have been assaulted. Shutting down the discussion just because we perceive the 'other side' get preferential treatment isn't the answer. Open it up instead. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 19, 2024 8:12:52 GMT
Unfortunately it is a regular thing, Muff. The article goes into that. Was a couple of years ago a male stripper had to run for it as I think was the Arsenal ladies team literally molested him at a Xmas party and was laughed off in one paper as harmless fun. Am sure roles reversed it would have very different It's so unfair that this woman is getting all this attention when the real victims in all of this are men. #ITSALLABOUTME(N) |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 19, 2024 8:14:51 GMT
Was a couple of years ago a male stripper had to run for it as I think was the Arsenal ladies team literally molested him at a Xmas party and was laughed off in one paper as harmless fun. Am sure roles reversed it would have very different That is just as bad. We all have the opportunity to bring our own experiences to this discussion whether we're men or women who have been assaulted. Shutting down the discussion just because we perceive the 'other side' get preferential treatment isn't the answer. Open it up instead. Not an attempt to shut down the conversation or saying the other side is just as bad. An observation that its not just football or all males are not predators types I remember being on an EasyJet flight with a Scouse hen party on board going to Dublin. Was mayhem and the lad serving snacks etc had a horrible time with them. They thought nothing of having a grab of him. I think they were barking up the wrong tree to be fair. It isn't isolated to football |
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 19, 2024 8:35:25 GMT
unfortunately it's the world we live in nothing can be said because someone will be offended Perhaps this quote from the article can say it for us "This isn’t just about isolated incidents; it’s about a culture that normalises and excuses male violence against women, allowing it to happen repeatedly and with impunity. And when the jokes, banter and laughter come from bystanders who do nothing, it’s no wonder some men feel they can get away with it." I have got more and more irate this week with people saying things like, it happens, it's society, what do you expect when you get in a carriage full of men, stick up for yourself and tell them to f off, move to another carriage. It is the men who are responsible not the woman. I would add to the quote that it's not just the bystanders who laugh at it but all those people who say you can't say or change anything, just accept it, it happens. As it says only 3% of 18-24 year old women have NOT been sexually harrassed and this in a society where there is supposed to be sexual equality. |
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Post by farfromhere on Oct 19, 2024 8:42:17 GMT
You still haven't read the article, have you? She shouted out and no people came to her aid. Yes, I read the article from back to front. Whether your a girl or a man, you have to stick up for yourself. Tell them to FO and go to another carriage. It's life , that's how it is sadly. You cannot top these situations unfortunately. I used to hold these sorts of views for many years until I recently experienced a wake-up call that changed my perspective. The notion of "sticking up for yourself" while simultaneously accepting that "you cannot stop these situations" is contradictory and problematic: -By encouraging people to "stick up for themselves" but also stating that they can't stop these situations, you're presenting a paradox. If these situations are truly inevitable, then any attempt to defend oneself is essentially pointless, which undermines the whole idea of taking action. -With adopting the mindset that it's solely up to the individual to defend themselves, it becomes much easier for victims to internalize guilt or blame. They may feel responsible for not acting "bravely" enough, instead of rightly attributing the fault to the perpetrator who chose to commit the assault. This approach can trap people in a cycle of self-blame rather than empowering them to seek support or hold the offender accountable. -Not every scenario allows for a straightforward "stick up for yourself" approach. For example, in situations where the person is significantly outnumbered or where the threat level is too high, attempting to confront the aggressors could escalate the danger rather than resolve it. In such cases, self-preservation often requires restraint rather than confrontation. -When we reduce traumatic experiences to a hindsight comment like "you should have just told them to FO," it minimizes the severity of the incident. This kind of response can discourage individuals from processing what happened, making it harder for them to acknowledge their own pain and ultimately hindering their ability to heal in the long run. -While self-empowerment is crucial, it's equally important that we foster a sense of collective responsibility. We should be creating environments where we look out for one another, so that if someone finds themselves in a difficult situation, they can count on the support of those around them. It's not my intention to lecture; it's just that I understand where you're coming from because I held very similar views myself until a few months ago when I had to confront the flaws in my own thinking. |
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olias
Academy Starlet
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Post by olias on Oct 19, 2024 10:20:34 GMT
That is just as bad. We all have the opportunity to bring our own experiences to this discussion whether we're men or women who have been assaulted. Shutting down the discussion just because we perceive the 'other side' get preferential treatment isn't the answer. Open it up instead. Not an attempt to shut down the conversation or saying the other side is just as bad. An observation that its not just football or all males are not predators types I remember being on an EasyJet flight with a Scouse hen party on board going to Dublin. Was mayhem and the lad serving snacks etc had a horrible time with them. They thought nothing of having a grab of him. I think they were barking up the wrong tree to be fair. It isn't isolated to football I used to work in the dispatch area of a factory that made ladies nightwear. 3 of us, blokes, in a factory of of about 75 women. Late 1980's. I was in my 20's. Quite often we'd have to go through the factory floor carrying stuff, or checking products. It was like running the gauntlet. Hands everywhere, top to bottom, front to back. I used to tell this to people in the pub, and it was, " You lucky bastard..!" Trust me, none of us thought we were, lucky, in any way. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 19, 2024 10:21:20 GMT
Not an attempt to shut down the conversation or saying the other side is just as bad. An observation that its not just football or all males are not predators types I remember being on an EasyJet flight with a Scouse hen party on board going to Dublin. Was mayhem and the lad serving snacks etc had a horrible time with them. They thought nothing of having a grab of him. I think they were barking up the wrong tree to be fair. It isn't isolated to football I used to work in the dispatch area of a factory that made ladies nightwear. 3 of us, blokes, in a factory of of about 75 women. Late 1980's. I was in my 20's. Quite often we'd have to go through the factory floor carrying stuff, or checking products. It was like running the gauntlet. Hands everywhere, top to bottom, front to back. I used to tell this to people in the pub, and it was, " You lucky bastard..!" Trust me, none of us thought we were, lucky, in any way. Yeh had same at Churchill China as a teenager |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 19, 2024 11:44:53 GMT
Not an attempt to shut down the conversation or saying the other side is just as bad. An observation that its not just football or all males are not predators types I remember being on an EasyJet flight with a Scouse hen party on board going to Dublin. Was mayhem and the lad serving snacks etc had a horrible time with them. They thought nothing of having a grab of him. I think they were barking up the wrong tree to be fair. It isn't isolated to football I used to work in the dispatch area of a factory that made ladies nightwear. 3 of us, blokes, in a factory of of about 75 women. Late 1980's. I was in my 20's. Quite often we'd have to go through the factory floor carrying stuff, or checking products. It was like running the gauntlet. Hands everywhere, top to bottom, front to back. I used to tell this to people in the pub, and it was, " You lucky bastard..!" Trust me, none of us thought we were, lucky, in any way. I worked with a gal like that. She was a nightmare. |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 19, 2024 15:24:01 GMT
Was a couple of years ago a male stripper had to run for it as I think was the Arsenal ladies team literally molested him at a Xmas party and was laughed off in one paper as harmless fun. Am sure roles reversed it would have very different It's so unfair that this woman is getting all this attention when the real victims in all of this are men. #ITSALLABOUTME(N) Every single time mate. And if you try to argue you just get told you hate men. It’s exhausting. |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 19, 2024 15:26:24 GMT
Yes, I read the article from back to front. Whether your a girl or a man, you have to stick up for yourself. Tell them to FO and go to another carriage. It's life , that's how it is sadly. You cannot top these situations unfortunately. I used to hold these sorts of views for many years until I recently experienced a wake-up call that changed my perspective. The notion of "sticking up for yourself" while simultaneously accepting that "you cannot stop these situations" is contradictory and problematic: -By encouraging people to "stick up for themselves" but also stating that they can't stop these situations, you're presenting a paradox. If these situations are truly inevitable, then any attempt to defend oneself is essentially pointless, which undermines the whole idea of taking action. -With adopting the mindset that it's solely up to the individual to defend themselves, it becomes much easier for victims to internalize guilt or blame. They may feel responsible for not acting "bravely" enough, instead of rightly attributing the fault to the perpetrator who chose to commit the assault. This approach can trap people in a cycle of self-blame rather than empowering them to seek support or hold the offender accountable. -Not every scenario allows for a straightforward "stick up for yourself" approach. For example, in situations where the person is significantly outnumbered or where the threat level is too high, attempting to confront the aggressors could escalate the danger rather than resolve it. In such cases, self-preservation often requires restraint rather than confrontation. -When we reduce traumatic experiences to a hindsight comment like "you should have just told them to FO," it minimizes the severity of the incident. This kind of response can discourage individuals from processing what happened, making it harder for them to acknowledge their own pain and ultimately hindering their ability to heal in the long run. -While self-empowerment is crucial, it's equally important that we foster a sense of collective responsibility. We should be creating environments where we look out for one another, so that if someone finds themselves in a difficult situation, they can count on the support of those around them. It's not my intention to lecture; it's just that I understand where you're coming from because I held very similar views myself until a few months ago when I had to confront the flaws in my own thinking. Thank you for this, it means a lot. And I hope the experience that changed your thinking wasn’t a traumatic one mate. |
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Post by madnellie on Oct 19, 2024 15:40:25 GMT
unfortunately it's the world we live in nothing can be said because someone will be offended Perhaps this quote from the article can say it for us "This isn’t just about isolated incidents; it’s about a culture that normalises and excuses male violence against women, allowing it to happen repeatedly and with impunity. And when the jokes, banter and laughter come from bystanders who do nothing, it’s no wonder some men feel they can get away with it." I have got more and more irate this week with people saying things like, it happens, it's society, what do you expect when you get in a carriage full of men, stick up for yourself and tell them to f off, move to another carriage. It is the men who are responsible not the woman. I would add to the quote that it's not just the bystanders who laugh at it but all those people who say you can't say or change anything, just accept it, it happens. As it says only 3% of 18-24 year old women have NOT been sexually harrassed and this in a society where there is supposed to be sexual equality. Thank you, notts. I too am getting more and more angry about the attitude of some. The facts are there in black and white, if people could just be arsed to read them, not to mention the actual experiences women like us have shared. For what it’s worth, I don’t care what gender someone is, even if I absolutely hate their guts I’ve got their back if I ever see them trouble. And yes, “trouble” includes “banter” that is clearly upsetting the person on the receiving end. “That joke isn’t funny anymore” - The Smiths. |
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