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Post by senojbor on Sept 29, 2024 12:56:00 GMT
My take is that it should have been easier for us to play away than at home. The midfield is shite. The defense is shite. But we do at least have pace and the ability to play on the counter. I'd have played deep, written off trying to play through midfield as they can't and just used them as shields to be as close to the back 4 as possible. I'd have kept Koumas, Million, Cannon (Gallagher) high up the pitch and when we turned over the ball. Play it up as quick as we could and try and hit them on the counter. We've conceded 5 goals already, it's just not going to work. We've got to be compact and hit teams with the only plus point we have. At home is going to be difficult as fans are going to want front-foot football but away from home it would have been fine. Instead we got 1000 passes between Wilmot and Gibson that allowed Middlesborough to get back in shape. That's how Pulis played his teams. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 29, 2024 13:03:32 GMT
They let us piss about with it yesterday along the back. They got in shape and the moment we played it forward they basically won it back straight away. They are taking breaks from pressing knowing we don't have one bit of quality to break through lines. It's embarrassing. I don't think there is any greater ridicule in football where they let you keep it along the back four as they know as soon as you try and play it forward you'll just lose it. Exactly this👍 'They' Stood there laughing 😆 And we didn't even put our dicks in their hands🤣 |
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Post by senojbor on Sept 29, 2024 13:06:14 GMT
Explain how we won at Plymouth then with the same team? Just about. We haven’t played well in the league once this season. Problem is I’d rather us be trying to do something decent and not pulling it off than us just setting out to be shit like yesterday. I’d rather watch paint dry than that whatever the outcome. The amount of excitement that sort of football will provide will be absolutely minimal whatever the outcome. With two strikes of his axe JW has got rid of anything that looked remotely positive at the club. What do you mean, just about? You can't dismiss a good away win as 'just about' Plymouth won their next two home matches. We haven’t played well all season? Last game at the riverside was a 5-0 win! God knows how many we'd have won playing well! I doubt we'll win another 4 games all season now. |
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Post by femark on Sept 29, 2024 13:10:00 GMT
Wilmot managed it for Swansea, Gibson could do it for Norwich, Bocat could in Belgium. We need to be patient as the team are learning to play a new style together.
It won’t happen on day one.
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Post by baconburger on Sept 29, 2024 13:10:11 GMT
Last season Jon Walters repeatedly mentioned the DNA of our club and what was required etc... What the new manager is trying to implement is not in the DNA of our club. The football club does not have a DNA. What some of you like to call it's DNA is Pulisball. That was the identity of the club for a relatively short period in it's history. What the new bloke was trying to do yesterday has nothing to do with identity or DNA it's just wank and fucking boring. |
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Post by baconburger on Sept 29, 2024 13:14:17 GMT
Just about. We haven’t played well in the league once this season. Problem is I’d rather us be trying to do something decent and not pulling it off than us just setting out to be shit like yesterday. I’d rather watch paint dry than that whatever the outcome. The amount of excitement that sort of football will provide will be absolutely minimal whatever the outcome. With two strikes of his axe JW has got rid of anything that looked remotely positive at the club. What do you mean, just about? You can't dismiss a good away win as 'just about' Plymouth won their next two home matches. We haven’t played well all season? Last game at the riverside was a 5-0 win! God knows how many we'd have won playing well! I doubt we'll win another 4 games all season now. We haven't played well in the league all season. Why are you going on about the cup. We're 20th in the league and have scored 4 goals in 7 games. Only Cardiff have scored less goals. That's how ineffective we've been. The vast majority of teams in the league have scored at least twice as many. It really must be difficult to keep being this bad at the objective of the game season after season. |
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Post by onepara on Sept 29, 2024 13:25:17 GMT
Wilmot managed it for Swansea, Gibson could do it for Norwich, Bocat could in Belgium. We need to be patient as the team are learning to play a new style together. It won’t happen on day one. What a load of rubbish that is. We don't have the type of player needed to play this way. Pep can shop around the World. Even then, when he finds that he has a player that doesn't follow the 'rules' he drops them. Grealish took nearly a season before he would play him, & even now, he only plays him occasionally. We don't have that time. What sense is there in playing square-ball, when you are a goal down & time is running out. What happens to square-ball then? It becomes long-ball, but by then the opposition has the game won. Square-ball is all about the Coach, & not the players. Not ours, anyway. We don't have the 'type'. It's mind-numbing stuff, that complicates what is an easy game to play. If he is still here in January (I doubt he will be) he will buy players to suit his style, then we are landed with the situation that we've had before. |
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Post by pavel on Sept 29, 2024 13:45:49 GMT
The passing it around at the back is supposed to draw the opposition in to make space for team with the ball to drive forward into the spaces and drive further forward or thread incisive passes through to bypass the pressing.
However to a a semblance of a chance of working you need incisive passing, close control, movement around you to pull the opposition apart and one touch passing for the most.
Unfortunately we have none of that, our players are static, pass the ball at snails pace, take two or three touches and no one with any passing ability drops back to take responsibility.
Until we have those players we need to play a hybrid version and keep it simple as possible without resorting to hoofing it up or trying Hollywood passes.
We’re the worst of both worlds at the moment, we pass it back and forth lethargically endlessly in front of our own box before hoofing it up aimlessly or more often pass it to the opposition.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 29, 2024 13:50:32 GMT
It's do easy to play against you font even need to press.
"They'll eventually give it to Wilmott and he'll twat it. We'll get it back without breaking sweat, lads. Once we do, their fitness and intensity levels won't put you under any pressure onnthe ball".
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 29, 2024 13:50:36 GMT
Obviously not all down to Thompson, but as soon as he is replaced with Lawal the better. He’s been playing above his ability./league for ages now. He’s a worker but not up to it. Him and Burger are dreadful together. No vision. Back pass, side psss.
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Post by Northy on Sept 29, 2024 13:52:28 GMT
I watched a non league game yesterday and a team conceded by doing it, and then almost a 2nd, clucking bells.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 29, 2024 13:57:49 GMT
Looks like we had 58 touches of the ball in the attacking third. fbref.com/en/squads/17892952/2024-2025/matchlogs/c10/possession/Stoke-City-Match-Logs-ChampionshipThe only other occasions we've had anywhere near that few were: Leicester 2-0 away this time last season (27% possession) A backs-to-the-wall 1-0 win at WBA in the very early days of MON when Tyrese scored the winner (28% possession) A 3-1 loss at Swansea a couple of months into Jones' tenure when we had 2 sent off and were run ragged by Daniel James (27% possession) |
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Post by femark on Sept 29, 2024 13:59:32 GMT
Wilmot managed it for Swansea, Gibson could do it for Norwich, Bocat could in Belgium. We need to be patient as the team are learning to play a new style together. It won’t happen on day one. What a load of rubbish that is. We don't have the type of player needed to play this way. Pep can shop around the World. Even then, when he finds that he has a player that doesn't follow the 'rules' he drops them. Grealish took nearly a season before he would play him, & even now, he only plays him occasionally. We don't have that time. What sense is there in playing square-ball, when you are a goal down & time is running out. What happens to square-ball then? It becomes long-ball, but by then the opposition has the game won. Square-ball is all about the Coach, & not the players. Not ours, anyway. We don't have the 'type'. It's mind-numbing stuff, that complicates what is an easy game to play. If he is still here in January (I doubt he will be) he will buy players to suit his style, then we are landed with the situation that we've had before. It worked alright for Middlesbrough and Hull. Look at all of the top teams in the league and they play the same way. |
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Post by BrummiePotter on Sept 29, 2024 14:00:35 GMT
Don’t have the players to play this system - baffles me how a bunch of coaches who are supposed to be experienced can’t see this, even if they’ve only been there a couple of weeks. Surely a couple of hours of seeing them training would show they aren’t good enough. Perhaps we play attack v defence in training and because our attack is so inept then the coaches think our defence is capable of out passing the opposition!
The most shocking stat from yesterday is less than 15 touches in their box all match. That’s about 1 touch every 7 minutes and that doesn’t necessarily mean a shot or anything meaningful in the box. So even when we do get the ball in their half we didn’t do anything with it. Hats off to our travelling fans who had to suffer that - a new low for the past 7 years.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 29, 2024 14:01:29 GMT
Looks like we had 58 touches of the ball in the attacking third. fbref.com/en/squads/17892952/2024-2025/matchlogs/c10/possession/Stoke-City-Match-Logs-ChampionshipThe only other occasions we've had anywhere near that few were: Leicester 2-0 away this time last season (27% possession) A backs-to-the-wall 1-0 win at WBA in the very early days of MON when Tyrese scored the winner (28% possession) A 3-1 loss at Swansea a couple of months into Jones' tenure when we had 2 sent off and were run ragged by Daniel James (27% possession) The worrying thing for me was the managers interview after. He seemed pleased with a lot of aspects. He’s unlikely to say ‘what a load of shite’ but I’d like a bit more honesty, unless he was happy - then we are fcuked. |
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Post by thehoof on Sept 29, 2024 14:05:43 GMT
The passing it around at the back is supposed to draw the opposition in to make space for team with the ball to drive forward into the spaces and drive further forward or thread incisive passes through to bypass the pressing. However to a a semblance of a chance of working you need incisive passing, close control, movement around you to pull the opposition apart and one touch passing for the most. Unfortunately we have none of that, our players are static, pass the ball at snails pace, take two or three touches and no one with any passing ability drops back to take responsibility. Until we have those players we need to play a hybrid version and keep it simple as possible without resorting to hoofing it up or trying Hollywood passes. We’re the worst of both worlds at the moment, we pass it back and forth lethargically endlessly in front of our own box before hoofing it up aimlessly or more often pass it to the opposition. Absolutely spot on. I hope that Pelach is pragmatic enough to realise that whatever strengths we have, he plays to- rather than trying to force possession based football on a team that has very few people who can actually control a football with one touch. And stop playing Thompson and Burger as a pair- they have no idea how to move a ball forward. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 29, 2024 14:10:03 GMT
These are professional footballers they can be coached to play possession football. It's just passing a football and moving into space to receive a pass or dragging players out of position to create openings for others. Our players are young and should be able to adapt. I don't know why people keep saying we can't play this way because I just don't believe it. If we were a team of 5ft players playing a long ball game then no we couldn't do that but this is playing with the ball on the floor. Narcis needs time to teach the players how to use that possession and turn it into attack. It's not an ideal start but we should stick with him and hope all the effort they put in pays off in the long run. We have an extremely young squad, they will get better but they need support and patience
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Post by bunnyscfc on Sept 29, 2024 14:13:33 GMT
These are professional footballers they can be coached to play possession football. It's just passing a football and moving into space to receive a pass or dragging players out of position to create openings for others. Our players are young and should be able to adapt. I don't know why people keep saying we can't play this way because I just don't believe it. If we were a team of 5ft players playing a long ball game then no we couldn't do that but this is playing with the ball on the floor. Narcis needs time to teach the players how to use that possession and turn it into attack. It's not an ideal start but we should stick with him and hope all the effort they put in pays off in the long run. We have an extremely young squad, they will get better but they need support and patience Takes a pre-season to instill a new playing style. Thing is, yesterday wasn't new.....we've played like that for most of the last seven years. Slow, sideways passing from a back four who then twat it long.....they are very accustomed to that. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 29, 2024 14:14:54 GMT
The argument of “we are trying to be Man City” & “very few teams can do it” is nonsense. The idea is to keep the ball, draw the opponent towards the ball and beat the press. It’s not rocket science & footballers at this level should be able to comfortably control and play a ball around even under relative pressure. Time and time again since our return to Division one I’ve seen opponents retain the ball and build up patiently. As a fanbase, we moan so much when a ball is played backwards and sideways. We have to accept that at times it needs to be done, but I constantly hear “launch it forward” etc. Now the problem is the manager seems set on his philosophy that he can’t see the wood for the trees. This group cannot do what he wants, even at a basic level. You have Wilmott & Gibson who just can’t do it and they will never be comfortable at doing it. Infront of them you have Thompson in a role that is vital to how Pèlach wants to play. He’s simply not a Championship level player. You need someone who can play forwards and be brave in possession & Thompson is the opposite of that. This is what makes it pure madness to sack a manager just after the transfer window closes & bring in someone who’s principles differ so greatly from what the squad is capable of. Unless you've got great players it doesn't work. And on top of that it's utterly tedious to watch. They aren't playing against great players though, there is a huge difference in the level of players Man City play against and the level of players we play against. Watching Man City can sometimes be boring but it is also exciting at times. All styles have flaws |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 29, 2024 14:21:29 GMT
These are professional footballers they can be coached to play possession football. It's just passing a football and moving into space to receive a pass or dragging players out of position to create openings for others. Our players are young and should be able to adapt. I don't know why people keep saying we can't play this way because I just don't believe it. If we were a team of 5ft players playing a long ball game then no we couldn't do that but this is playing with the ball on the floor. Narcis needs time to teach the players how to use that possession and turn it into attack. It's not an ideal start but we should stick with him and hope all the effort they put in pays off in the long run. We have an extremely young squad, they will get better but they need support and patience Takes a pre-season to instill a new playing style. Thing is, yesterday wasn't new.....we've played like that for most of the last seven years. Slow, sideways passing from a back four who then twat it long.....they are very accustomed to that. They have to learn as they go. If he changes the way he wants us to play then he risks being called a coward by some. I'm just going to believe he will get it right once he has had enough time, it might be ugly getting there but hopefully it's for the greater good |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Sept 29, 2024 14:23:46 GMT
Takes a pre-season to instill a new playing style. Thing is, yesterday wasn't new.....we've played like that for most of the last seven years. Slow, sideways passing from a back four who then twat it long.....they are very accustomed to that. They have to learn as they go. If he changes the way he wants us to play then he risks being called a coward by some. I'm just going to believe he will get it right once he has had enough time, it might be ugly getting there but hopefully it's for the greater good Even if he gets there it'll still be mind numbing to watch. |
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Post by canadianmoose on Sept 29, 2024 14:25:29 GMT
So, yet another season over before it’s really got going in the name of “rebuilding”
Sick and bloody tired of it
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Post by stokiejoe on Sept 29, 2024 14:27:33 GMT
Takes a pre-season to instill a new playing style. Thing is, yesterday wasn't new.....we've played like that for most of the last seven years. Slow, sideways passing from a back four who then twat it long.....they are very accustomed to that. They have to learn as they go. If he changes the way he wants us to play then he risks being called a coward by some. I'm just going to believe he will get it right once he has had enough time, it might be ugly getting there but hopefully it's for the greater good I understand but how much time is enough time? Changing the way we play is fine as long as we stand a chance of winning a game and not attempting to do it all in one go that sees us playing as we did yesterday |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 29, 2024 14:34:00 GMT
They have to learn as they go. If he changes the way he wants us to play then he risks being called a coward by some. I'm just going to believe he will get it right once he has had enough time, it might be ugly getting there but hopefully it's for the greater good I understand but how much time is enough time? Changing the way we play is fine as long as we stand a chance of winning a game and not attempting to do it all in one go that sees us playing as we did yesterday I don't know, I feel we just need to ride it out at least until the transfer window opens. If we haven't improved by January it may never improve. If it's not working we will need to make changes again but with a window open for someone new to use if needed. Hopefully by then everything is good and we start seeing the bright future we are promised |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Sept 29, 2024 14:35:02 GMT
I understand but how much time is enough time? Changing the way we play is fine as long as we stand a chance of winning a game and not attempting to do it all in one go that sees us playing as we did yesterday I don't know, I feel we just need to ride it out at least until the transfer window opens. If we haven't improved by January it may never improve. If it's not working we will need to make changes again but with a window open for someone new to use if needed. Hopefully by then everything is good and we start seeing the bright future we are promised If it hasn't improved by January they'll be relegated by that point. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 29, 2024 14:37:11 GMT
They have to learn as they go. If he changes the way he wants us to play then he risks being called a coward by some. I'm just going to believe he will get it right once he has had enough time, it might be ugly getting there but hopefully it's for the greater good Even if he gets there it'll still be mind numbing to watch. Possession football doesn't have to be boring, it's sometimes good to watch. If your team is winning you don't get bored so easily |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 29, 2024 14:41:37 GMT
I don't know, I feel we just need to ride it out at least until the transfer window opens. If we haven't improved by January it may never improve. If it's not working we will need to make changes again but with a window open for someone new to use if needed. Hopefully by then everything is good and we start seeing the bright future we are promised If it hasn't improved by January they'll be relegated by that point. If we ripped everything up and started again I'm not sure we would get it right. Just gotta hope that Walters risk pays off |
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 29, 2024 14:55:12 GMT
Unless you've got great players it doesn't work. And on top of that it's utterly tedious to watch. They aren't playing against great players though, there is a huge difference in the level of players Man City play against and the level of players we play against. Watching Man City can sometimes be boring but it is also exciting at times. All styles have flaws No. They are playing against players who make mistakes under pressure. If you don't apply pressure by fannying around pretending you're Kevin de Bruyne and that you're playing against Real Madrid then you're making their job easy. It's vanity. Players and managers don't want to admit what they are so play as if they are world class playing against world class. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 29, 2024 14:58:49 GMT
They aren't playing against great players though, there is a huge difference in the level of players Man City play against and the level of players we play against. Watching Man City can sometimes be boring but it is also exciting at times. All styles have flaws No. They are playing against players who make mistakes under pressure. If you don't apply pressure by fannying around pretending you're Kevin de Bruyne and that you're playing against Real Madrid then you're making their job easy. It's vanity. Players and managers don't want to admit what they are so play as if they are world class playing against world class. We have young players, they can adapt. If the were all old players then maybe that would be more difficult but a lot of them are just starting their careers. They will get sharper and more comfortable, they need to make mistakes to learn they will get better |
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 29, 2024 15:04:50 GMT
No. They are playing against players who make mistakes under pressure. If you don't apply pressure by fannying around pretending you're Kevin de Bruyne and that you're playing against Real Madrid then you're making their job easy. It's vanity. Players and managers don't want to admit what they are so play as if they are world class playing against world class. We have young players, they can adapt. If the were all old players then maybe that would be more difficult but a lot of them are just starting their careers. They will get sharper and more comfortable, they need to make mistakes to learn they will get better Or their confidence will drop and we'll be fucked. Then we'll get a hoofer in and we'll be back to square one. |
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