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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2024 17:43:30 GMT
i played CH at a reasonable level and was drummed into me Boot the bloody thing clear if no obvious pass available and NEVER EVER pass the ball across your goal area Yep exactly what I was taught as well as the ability to kick a ball with either foot! This. It amazes me how some of these guys make it to pro level with a complete lack of ability to use their weaker foot. Its bizarre.. |
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 28, 2024 17:55:36 GMT
The aim of playing around at the back is that you draw the other team onto you, pick through the press with intricate passes and take advantage of the extra space up the field to score. The fatal flaw in that plan comes when your players aren’t good enough to beat the press and you piss about, go nowhere and then lose the ball. That’s why my daughter’s U7 team doesn’t try it and Stoke shouldn’t be either. I actually can't think of any Premier League teams that play this way. I think Brighton under De Zerbi is the closest I can think of, but even they still conceded a lot of chances. They also played as more of a unit to enable breaks forward. Our midfield was non-existent today. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Sept 28, 2024 18:01:52 GMT
There's nothing wrong with passing the ball around the back, sideways and...you just have to have a plan worked out in training for what happens next, i.e. when Gibson has passed to Wilmot for the second time, Bae or Burger will be on hand to take the ball further forwards and pass it to Manhof or Koumas. I don't know why we never try that. Because they just stand there watching, Thompson just stood between their forwards, arms length away, making it impossible to actually pass the ball to him, whatever they do in training it doesn't seem to involve movement. It was really tight wasn't it? 5 players stood in quite a close 3-2 formation just passing it around. I understand that there are times of the game you can use it to save energy and avoid pressure. Trying to do it for 80 minutes was shit and I hated it. |
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Post by Waggy on Sept 28, 2024 18:11:03 GMT
I thought the days of this was over. Alex Neil bored me and now this will.
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Post by stoke1989 on Sept 28, 2024 18:20:20 GMT
Wolves doing it now with 5 mins to go needing a goal.
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 28, 2024 18:22:07 GMT
Gary Neville has just hit the nail on the head after watching Wolves pass it round pointlessly whilst losing.
GET THE BALL AS QUICK AS YOU CAN, ACCURATLEY, TO YOUR BEST PLAYERS, AS HIGH UP THE PITCH AS POSSIBLE.
Football is easy. Always has been.
You get stuck trying be Pep whilst in the bottom half of the Championship, it's an absolute fucking myth that passing to Gibson and Wilmot 1000 times is progressive. Fuck Off!!
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Post by DC1863 on Sept 28, 2024 19:20:09 GMT
Hasn't JW emphasised regularly about recruiting to fit the new 'Stoke way' of fast, front-foot, attacking football?
Why has he hired a coach who plays a possession based game?
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Post by kjpt140v on Sept 28, 2024 19:26:00 GMT
The argument of “we are trying to be Man City” & “very few teams can do it” is nonsense. The idea is to keep the ball, draw the opponent towards the ball and beat the press. It’s not rocket science & footballers at this level should be able to comfortably control and play a ball around even under relative pressure. Time and time again since our return to Division one I’ve seen opponents retain the ball and build up patiently. As a fanbase, we moan so much when a ball is played backwards and sideways. We have to accept that at times it needs to be done, but I constantly hear “launch it forward” etc. Now the problem is the manager seems set on his philosophy that he can’t see the wood for the trees. This group cannot do what he wants, even at a basic level. You have Wilmott & Gibson who just can’t do it and they will never be comfortable at doing it. Infront of them you have Thompson in a role that is vital to how Pèlach wants to play. He’s simply not a Championship level player. You need someone who can play forwards and be brave in possession & Thompson is the opposite of that. This is what makes it pure madness to sack a manager just after the transfer window closes & bring in someone who’s principles differ so greatly from what the squad is capable of. Shit, we're in Division One, that was quicker than I thought it would be. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2024 19:27:07 GMT
Hasn't JW emphasised regularly about recruiting to fit the new 'Stoke way' of fast, front-foot, attacking football? Why has he hired a coach who plays a possession based game? Because he's clueless and when he has a disagreement goes all power mad and sacks the person calling him out. He is not suitable for the role if he can't manage his head coach effectively. He needs to be shown the door... |
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 28, 2024 19:28:51 GMT
Gibson made 104 passes!
I'd be amazed if one of our central defenders had ever done that before.
Own half passes
Boro 192
Stoke 361
Opposition half passes
Boro 240
Stoke 82
Opposition box touches
Boro 38
Stoke 10
Most passes
Gibson 104
Wilmot 69
Thompson 63
Hackney 61
Ayling 59
Morris 58
Edmundson 50
Borges 44
Rose 36
McGree 36
Tchamadeu 30
Bocat 29
Dijksteel 28
Johansson 24
Azaz 2
Bae 22
Dieng 21
Burger 18
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 28, 2024 19:33:44 GMT
Hasn't JW emphasised regularly about recruiting to fit the new 'Stoke way' of fast, front-foot, attacking football? Why has he hired a coach who plays a possession based game? Because clearly JW doesn't know his arse from his elbow. And he was always a bit of a twat as a player let's be honest. I've never liked the bloke and I can understand why Schumacher couldn't stand him either. |
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Post by neckender78 on Sept 28, 2024 19:40:41 GMT
It's absolutely boring as fuck and is turning me away from the game I lived and breathed both Stoke and football generally.
Man City are a fantastic team with world class players and some of their football has been a joy to watch over the years.
Absolutely no idea why every manager now thinks this is the way to play. Boring slow sideways and backwards football is not for me. If I watch a live match on tv now I can quickly get bored with this nonsense, VAR the endless feigning of injury and time wasting and over analysis of everything.
Football is not what it used to be. Maybe the new generation enjoy endless stats, expected XG and the rest of the bollocks but it's not my game.
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Post by Marc01 on Sept 28, 2024 19:43:46 GMT
Gibson made 104 passes! I'd be amazed if one of our central defenders had ever done that before. Own half passesBoro 192 Stoke 361 Opposition half passesBoro 240 Stoke 82 Opposition box touchesBoro 38 Stoke 10 Most passesGibson 104
Wilmot 69
Thompson 63Hackney 61 Ayling 59 Morris 58 Edmundson 50 Borges 44 Rose 36 McGree 36 Tchamadeu 30
Bocat 29Dijksteel 28 Johansson 24Azaz 2 Bae 22Dieng 21 Burger 18Twice as many passes as Boro in defensive half. Only a third the amount of Boro in the attacking half. Greater than a 4.5 : 1 ratio defensive half : attacking half passes Are those typical stats? Excitement would be at a premium. What season did Stoke start pissing around with the ball at the back? Success seems to have been thin on the ground. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 28, 2024 19:50:28 GMT
Yep exactly what I was taught as well as the ability to kick a ball with either foot! This. It amazes me how some of these guys make it to pro level with a complete lack of ability to use their weaker foot. Its bizarre.. I was told at school,never pass the ball across your own penalty area. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 28, 2024 19:53:12 GMT
This. It amazes me how some of these guys make it to pro level with a complete lack of ability to use their weaker foot. Its bizarre.. I was told at school,never pass the ball across your own penalty area. I agree. Basic rule. I mean there's a time and situation you can get away with it. But never ever when its a tight call.. |
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Post by jokker on Sept 28, 2024 19:54:21 GMT
whatever they do in training it doesn't seem to involve movement. I'm sure Pelach - and AN and SS before him - had them moving around in progressive playing all the time. It just goes out the window as the defenders try to remember why they are doing it... |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 28, 2024 19:59:43 GMT
whatever they do in training it doesn't seem to involve movement. I'm sure Pelach - and AN and SS before him - had them moving around in progressive playing all the time. It just goes out the window as the defenders try to remember why they are doing it... But they weren't doing it, the midfield I mean, from minute one they just stood there, it's baffling. |
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Post by premieraj on Sept 28, 2024 20:06:26 GMT
Burger and Thompson is the midfield, the 10 role doesn’t come in if you can’t get the ball to them?
I keep saying it’s nothing to do with systems they are just not good enough they can’t do it. Tell me when we had a worse back4, midfield and forward line? I can’t remember. Out of that side only the goalkeeper just and Manhoef deserve to be in the 11?
Am I wrong? What can you expect other than what we are getting? I bet Narcis can believe the deal he’s been handed.
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Post by senojbor on Sept 28, 2024 20:12:04 GMT
Hasn't JW emphasised regularly about recruiting to fit the new 'Stoke way' of fast, front-foot, attacking football? Why has he hired a coach who plays a possession based game? Because clearly JW doesn't know his arse from his elbow. And he was always a bit of a twat as a player let's be honest. I've never liked the bloke and I can understand why Schumacher couldn't stand him either. Lost all respect for him for stabbing SS in his back As For him not seeing eye to eye with Schumacher, Coates should have sorted it out and banged their heads together. We're Back to square one or worse. Relegation is a possibility under this chancer |
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Post by senojbor on Sept 28, 2024 20:14:39 GMT
Burger and Thompson is the midfield, the 10 role doesn’t come in if you can’t get the ball to them? I keep saying it’s nothing to do with systems they are just not good enough they can’t do it. Tell me when we had a worse back4, midfield and forward line? I can’t remember. Out of that side only the goalkeeper just and Manhoef deserve to be in the 11? Am I wrong? What can you expect other than what we are getting? I bet Narcis can believe the deal he’s been handed. Explain how we won at Plymouth then with the same team? |
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Post by mcw on Sept 28, 2024 20:15:28 GMT
It was utter utter shite and any coach that thinks this was a building block to something is an utter charlatan. We are basically inviting teams to press us as they sense the panic in this team as they receive the ball after 4/5 passes back and along the back 4 and whichever unfortunate receives it finally thinks I’ve got to play the ball forwards. Defence and midfield have morphed into one, meaning the “out ball” is either in to the feet of somebody tightly marked with them having a spare player to mop up or a long ball with the same result. It is utter madness to try and play like this with the off chance that 1 in 10 times we beat the press and 9 on 10 times out ourselves in real danger. Get the fucking midfield off the toes of the defence and get the ball over take press and try and at least play in their half. 2/3 more games of this shit and the crowd is seriously going to turn.
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Post by FrankButcher on Sept 28, 2024 20:16:09 GMT
I was watching Plymouth last night playing out from the back and executing it rather well against Luton, granted luton didn't look up for the fight at all and they didn't turn up but they played through the pitch rather well and only recycled the ball by going back when nothing going forward was on other than that they were looking to play forward today it seemed we messed about with the ball at the back numerous times then when we did look to go forward we didn't seem to have a clue what to do with it at all which then resulted in us going sideways and back it's so frustrating when you see teams over the years in the championship competently play out from the back (Swansea, Brentford come to mind)
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Post by premieraj on Sept 28, 2024 20:16:45 GMT
It was utter utter shite and any coach that thinks this was a building block to something is an utter charlatan. We are basically inviting teams to press us as they sense the panic in this team as they receive the ball after 4/5 passes back and along the back 4 and whichever unfortunate receives it finally thinks I’ve got to play the ball forwards. Defence and midfield have morphed into one, meaning the “out ball” is either in to the feet of somebody tightly marked with them having a spare player to mop up or a long ball with the same result. It is utter madness to try and play like this with the off chance that 1 in 10 times we beat the press and 9 on 10 times out ourselves in real danger. Get the fucking midfield off the toes of the defence and get the ball over take press and try and at least play in their half. 2/3 more games of this shit and the crowd is seriously going to turn. Judging by the vid on other thread they already have turned? |
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Post by senojbor on Sept 28, 2024 20:19:22 GMT
It was utter utter shite and any coach that thinks this was a building block to something is an utter charlatan. We are basically inviting teams to press us as they sense the panic in this team as they receive the ball after 4/5 passes back and along the back 4 and whichever unfortunate receives it finally thinks I’ve got to play the ball forwards. Defence and midfield have morphed into one, meaning the “out ball” is either in to the feet of somebody tightly marked with them having a spare player to mop up or a long ball with the same result. It is utter madness to try and play like this with the off chance that 1 in 10 times we beat the press and 9 on 10 times out ourselves in real danger. Get the fucking midfield off the toes of the defence and get the ball over take press and try and at least play in their half. 2/3 more games of this shit and the crowd is seriously going to turn. Absolutely correct. |
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Post by hcstokie on Sept 28, 2024 20:21:27 GMT
The argument of “we are trying to be Man City” & “very few teams can do it” is nonsense. The idea is to keep the ball, draw the opponent towards the ball and beat the press. It’s not rocket science & footballers at this level should be able to comfortably control and play a ball around even under relative pressure. Time and time again since our return to Division one I’ve seen opponents retain the ball and build up patiently. As a fanbase, we moan so much when a ball is played backwards and sideways. We have to accept that at times it needs to be done, but I constantly hear “launch it forward” etc. Now the problem is the manager seems set on his philosophy that he can’t see the wood for the trees. This group cannot do what he wants, even at a basic level. You have Wilmott & Gibson who just can’t do it and they will never be comfortable at doing it. Infront of them you have Thompson in a role that is vital to how Pèlach wants to play. He’s simply not a Championship level player. You need someone who can play forwards and be brave in possession & Thompson is the opposite of that. This is what makes it pure madness to sack a manager just after the transfer window closes & bring in someone who’s principles differ so greatly from what the squad is capable of. It also highlights the absolute bollocks the new manager was speaking when he said he’d design a tactic suitable for the players at his disposal. As others have said, I’m sick of every manager trying to copy Pep with his tika taka shit. Before that, it was everyone playing 532 because Conte won the league with it. It’s shit. Build a tactic to play to your team’s strengths instead of trying to shoehorn the latest fad into it, regardless of the players at your disposal. |
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Post by collo68 on Sept 28, 2024 20:39:17 GMT
Hasn't JW emphasised regularly about recruiting to fit the new 'Stoke way' of fast, front-foot, attacking football? Why has he hired a coach who plays a possession based game? Exactly my point when I have been discussing it tonight. Stoke crowd like in your face up and at em football so in the interview didn’t they ask him how he was going to play, unbelievable. |
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Post by collo68 on Sept 28, 2024 20:43:23 GMT
The argument of “we are trying to be Man City” & “very few teams can do it” is nonsense. The idea is to keep the ball, draw the opponent towards the ball and beat the press. It’s not rocket science & footballers at this level should be able to comfortably control and play a ball around even under relative pressure. Time and time again since our return to Division one I’ve seen opponents retain the ball and build up patiently. As a fanbase, we moan so much when a ball is played backwards and sideways. We have to accept that at times it needs to be done, but I constantly hear “launch it forward” etc. Now the problem is the manager seems set on his philosophy that he can’t see the wood for the trees. This group cannot do what he wants, even at a basic level. You have Wilmott & Gibson who just can’t do it and they will never be comfortable at doing it. Infront of them you have Thompson in a role that is vital to how Pèlach wants to play. He’s simply not a Championship level player. You need someone who can play forwards and be brave in possession & Thompson is the opposite of that. This is what makes it pure madness to sack a manager just after the transfer window closes & bring in someone who’s principles differ so greatly from what the squad is capable of. It also highlights the absolute bollocks the new manager was speaking when he said he’d design a tactic suitable for the players at his disposal. As others have said, I’m sick of every manager trying to copy Pep with his tika taka shit. Before that, it was everyone playing 532 because Conte won the league with it. It’s shit. Build a tactic to play to your team’s strengths instead of trying to shoehorn the latest fad into it, regardless of the players at your disposal. Arguably our best players are the front 4 yet they haven’t had a kick today. Million is lost playing centrally, Koumas has had his worst two games. Cannon is subbed at half time and the jury is out with him but you would think he has something as most of the championship wanted him. |
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Post by stoke1989 on Sept 28, 2024 20:58:33 GMT
If this is the new style of football then I won't be attending much longer, 1 shot on target, barely any touches in the opposition box, boring football.
I find man City tedious and they have some of the world's best players. So us watching the back 5 play 18 passes in our own 3rd then lose possession, it really grates me.
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Post by pushon on Sept 28, 2024 21:40:39 GMT
Burger and Thompson is the midfield, the 10 role doesn’t come in if you can’t get the ball to them? I keep saying it’s nothing to do with systems they are just not good enough they can’t do it. Tell me when we had a worse back4, midfield and forward line? I can’t remember. Out of that side only the goalkeeper just and Manhoef deserve to be in the 11? Am I wrong? What can you expect other than what we are getting? I bet Narcis can believe the deal he’s been handed. Sadly, I hate to admit that you're not wrong☹ |
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 28, 2024 21:42:28 GMT
If this is the new style of football then I won't be attending much longer, 1 shot on target, barely any touches in the opposition box, boring football. I find man City tedious and they have some of the world's best players. So us watching the back 5 play 18 passes in our own 3rd then lose possession, it really grates me. It's modern football sadly. It's boring. Stats based shite. |
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