|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 7, 2024 9:29:10 GMT
That's a completely rubbish argument - everybody cheats so may as well just let it happen. How does that improve things? Also this has never happened on this scale. Man City are owned by oil rich nation states buying titles in order to sports wash their dodgy regime. And they are blackmailing the UK government to ditch any rules that would prevent them from buying titles in perpetuity. It makes a joke of Premier Leavue as a sporting competition and hands over a big chunk of our cultural life to a dodgy regime over which we have no democratic control. This goes way beyond football- if Man City win their case we are little more than a vassal state. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 So which bit is funny? Don't you understand what it going on here?
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 9:44:41 GMT
So which bit is funny? Don't you understand what it going on here? Dunno is it a pitch for Brexit?
|
|
|
Post by Gob Bluth on Jun 7, 2024 9:59:38 GMT
Genuine question coming from a place of stupidity, is there another industry that is governed in such a way that it limits investment? Putting aside the governance for monopolies which I don't think this would fall under.
|
|
|
Post by citynickscfc on Jun 7, 2024 10:01:46 GMT
So which bit is funny? Don't you understand what it going on here? Dunno is it a pitch for Brexit? The post you are referring to actually has valid points. Not sure any football fan would refute that. I don't consider many people who say they are football fans to be actual football fans by the way, they are just interested in "winning", glory hunters to another extent, latching into successful brands and clubs. Pretty typical in society really.
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 10:17:37 GMT
Dunno is it a pitch for Brexit? The post you are referring to actually has valid points. Not sure any football fan would refute that. I don't consider many people who say they are football fans to be actual football fans by the way, they are just interested in "winning", glory hunters to another extent, latching into successful brands and clubs. Pretty typical in society really. Reads like a bunch of dramatic crap to me. If find the argument a really simple one to solve in one of 2 ways depending on what your desired outcome is. Want to try to limit to an absolute minimum clubs getting into financial peril, quite easy to solve. Want to level the playing field again quite easy to solve. The two goals are completely incompatible for being solved by the same regulations. I love the premier league versions title. Profit and sustainability, I mean hardly any of them make a profit and losses have spiralled under it's watch. Why seek to stop rich people wasting their money. Just ensure they cover every single liability on the club present and future as a result of their investment decisions. If you do that wherever they come from becomes an irrelevance.
|
|
|
Post by skip on Jun 7, 2024 11:35:16 GMT
An excellent article, thanks for the link Malcolm.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 7, 2024 13:01:36 GMT
The post you are referring to actually has valid points. Not sure any football fan would refute that. I don't consider many people who say they are football fans to be actual football fans by the way, they are just interested in "winning", glory hunters to another extent, latching into successful brands and clubs. Pretty typical in society really. Reads like a bunch of dramatic crap to me. If find the argument a really simple one to solve in one of 2 ways depending on what your desired outcome is. Want to try to limit to an absolute minimum clubs getting into financial peril, quite easy to solve. Want to level the playing field again quite easy to solve. The two goals are completely incompatible for being solved by the same regulations. I love the premier league versions title. Profit and sustainability, I mean hardly any of them make a profit and losses have spiralled under it's watch. Why seek to stop rich people wasting their money. Just ensure they cover every single liability on the club present and future as a result of their investment decisions. If you do that wherever they come from becomes an irrelevance. Well there you go you've answered my question. You really don't have a clue what's happening here.. www.gbnews.com/sport/uk-government-abu-dhabi-man-city-premier-league-chargesBasically the ÙAE is leaning on the UK government to let Man City win their legal case against the Premier League and thereby prevent the Premier League from imposing their rules on the club. Which bit of loss of "loss of sovereignty" and "vassal state" don't you understand?
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 13:07:44 GMT
Reads like a bunch of dramatic crap to me. If find the argument a really simple one to solve in one of 2 ways depending on what your desired outcome is. Want to try to limit to an absolute minimum clubs getting into financial peril, quite easy to solve. Want to level the playing field again quite easy to solve. The two goals are completely incompatible for being solved by the same regulations. I love the premier league versions title. Profit and sustainability, I mean hardly any of them make a profit and losses have spiralled under it's watch. Why seek to stop rich people wasting their money. Just ensure they cover every single liability on the club present and future as a result of their investment decisions. If you do that wherever they come from becomes an irrelevance. Well there you go you've answered my question. You really don't have a clue what's happening here.. www.gbnews.com/sport/uk-government-abu-dhabi-man-city-premier-league-chargesBasically the ÙAE is leaning on the UK government to let Man City win their legal case against the Premier League and thereby prevent the Premier League from imposing their rules on the club. Which bit of loss of "loss of sovereignty" and "vassal state" don't you understand? I heard all the same crap in 2016 spouted by Britons with self interest to convince morons to vote for something that was never in their interests. Went well that did, NOT. Comeuppances to be delivered any day soon. Only just noticed the source of your link a notorious source of impartial information, not got one from the daily Mail too
|
|
|
Post by thepottypotter on Jun 7, 2024 13:21:53 GMT
An excellent article, thanks for the link Malcolm. Best article I've ever read on the Guardian. Enough nails hit on the head to build the 4.3 million missing homes we need in the UK to solve the housing crisis!! This in paragraph in particular I love: 'As news emerged of Manchester City’s potentially devastating legal case against English football’s top tier it was tempting to see a kind of parable. Here we have a league founded out of greed, for the future benefit of greed, which now finds itself threatened with internal detonation by – yes – greed. Invite a tiger in for tea and the tiger might be fun. But it’s also still a tiger. And in the end it’s going to eat you too.' Really shows how fucked the PL and football is by allowing Man City and Newcastle to be bought by oil-rich nation states. This bullying legacy action by Man City, pushes the the whole of football to the cliff-edge. The politicians and organisations that allowed this - every individual should be sacked for selling off football, one of our most valuable industries. I hope there are still a few investigative journalists around doing thorough jobs because - if Man City's 115 charges are all dropped AND their legal action wins, it will reek of collusion and corruption similar to FIFA.
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 13:49:49 GMT
An excellent article, thanks for the link Malcolm. Best article I've ever read on the Guardian. Enough nails hit on the head to build the 4.3 million missing homes we need in the UK to solve the housing crisis!! This in paragraph in particular I love: 'As news emerged of Manchester City’s potentially devastating legal case against English football’s top tier it was tempting to see a kind of parable. Here we have a league founded out of greed, for the future benefit of greed, which now finds itself threatened with internal detonation by – yes – greed. Invite a tiger in for tea and the tiger might be fun. But it’s also still a tiger. And in the end it’s going to eat you too.' Really shows how fucked the PL and football is by allowing Man City and Newcastle to be bought by oil-rich nation states. This bullying legacy action by Man City, pushes the the whole of football to the cliff-edge. The politicians and organisations that allowed this - every individual should be sacked for selling off football, one of our most valuable industries. I hope there are still a few investigative journalists around doing thorough jobs because - if Man City's 115 charges are all dropped AND their legal action wins, it will reek of collusion and corruption similar to FIFA. Yeah I mean the British alternative was doing it so well. They've improved performance on the pitch and facilities to an unrecognisable level. Who cares where the money comes from they can't take it home can they. As for sportswashing any opinions it changes aren't worth listening to. They could buy Stoke and take us to a champions league success and I'd love every minute of it but I'd still think they were backward, terrorist sympathisers and funders and a few other things I'd get in trouble for posting. How many Chelsea fans would welcome Abramovic back with open arms. Would it turn them into fans of Putin and the Russian state? I doubt it very much.
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 7, 2024 13:53:19 GMT
An excellent article, thanks for the link Malcolm. Best article I've ever read on the Guardian. Enough nails hit on the head to build the 4.3 million missing homes we need in the UK to solve the housing crisis!! This in paragraph in particular I love: 'As news emerged of Manchester City’s potentially devastating legal case against English football’s top tier it was tempting to see a kind of parable. Here we have a league founded out of greed, for the future benefit of greed, which now finds itself threatened with internal detonation by – yes – greed. Invite a tiger in for tea and the tiger might be fun. But it’s also still a tiger. And in the end it’s going to eat you too.' Really shows how fucked the PL and football is by allowing Man City and Newcastle to be bought by oil-rich nation states. This bullying legacy action by Man City, pushes the the whole of football to the cliff-edge. The politicians and organisations that allowed this - every individual should be sacked for selling off football, one of our most valuable industries. I hope there are still a few investigative journalists around doing thorough jobs because - if Man City's 115 charges are all dropped AND their legal action wins, it will reek of collusion and corruption similar to FIFA. How do you distinguish between allowing oil rich people to own a club as compared to gambling rich people? Porn rich people?
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 7, 2024 13:57:23 GMT
Best article I've ever read on the Guardian. Enough nails hit on the head to build the 4.3 million missing homes we need in the UK to solve the housing crisis!! This in paragraph in particular I love: 'As news emerged of Manchester City’s potentially devastating legal case against English football’s top tier it was tempting to see a kind of parable. Here we have a league founded out of greed, for the future benefit of greed, which now finds itself threatened with internal detonation by – yes – greed. Invite a tiger in for tea and the tiger might be fun. But it’s also still a tiger. And in the end it’s going to eat you too.' Really shows how fucked the PL and football is by allowing Man City and Newcastle to be bought by oil-rich nation states. This bullying legacy action by Man City, pushes the the whole of football to the cliff-edge. The politicians and organisations that allowed this - every individual should be sacked for selling off football, one of our most valuable industries. I hope there are still a few investigative journalists around doing thorough jobs because - if Man City's 115 charges are all dropped AND their legal action wins, it will reek of collusion and corruption similar to FIFA. How do you distinguish between allowing oil rich people to own a club as compared to gambling rich people? Porn rich people? The issue i think is letting nation states buy clubs. They are very difficult to sue. Especially when you want their oil and they have a big control of that oil market..
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 13:57:47 GMT
Best article I've ever read on the Guardian. Enough nails hit on the head to build the 4.3 million missing homes we need in the UK to solve the housing crisis!! This in paragraph in particular I love: 'As news emerged of Manchester City’s potentially devastating legal case against English football’s top tier it was tempting to see a kind of parable. Here we have a league founded out of greed, for the future benefit of greed, which now finds itself threatened with internal detonation by – yes – greed. Invite a tiger in for tea and the tiger might be fun. But it’s also still a tiger. And in the end it’s going to eat you too.' Really shows how fucked the PL and football is by allowing Man City and Newcastle to be bought by oil-rich nation states. This bullying legacy action by Man City, pushes the the whole of football to the cliff-edge. The politicians and organisations that allowed this - every individual should be sacked for selling off football, one of our most valuable industries. I hope there are still a few investigative journalists around doing thorough jobs because - if Man City's 115 charges are all dropped AND their legal action wins, it will reek of collusion and corruption similar to FIFA. How do you distinguish between allowing oil rich people to own a club as compared to gambling rich people? Porn rich people? Or Mike Ashley.
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 14:00:31 GMT
How do you distinguish between allowing oil rich people to own a club as compared to gambling rich people? Porn rich people? The issue i think is letting nation states buy clubs. They are very difficult to sue. Especially when you want their oil and they have a big control of that oil market.. They don't. Oil is bought and sold on world markets whatever they tried to do there'd be a third party work around and they're only sabre rattling anyhow.
|
|
|
Post by thepottypotter on Jun 7, 2024 14:04:48 GMT
Best article I've ever read on the Guardian. Enough nails hit on the head to build the 4.3 million missing homes we need in the UK to solve the housing crisis!! This in paragraph in particular I love: 'As news emerged of Manchester City’s potentially devastating legal case against English football’s top tier it was tempting to see a kind of parable. Here we have a league founded out of greed, for the future benefit of greed, which now finds itself threatened with internal detonation by – yes – greed. Invite a tiger in for tea and the tiger might be fun. But it’s also still a tiger. And in the end it’s going to eat you too.' Really shows how fucked the PL and football is by allowing Man City and Newcastle to be bought by oil-rich nation states. This bullying legacy action by Man City, pushes the the whole of football to the cliff-edge. The politicians and organisations that allowed this - every individual should be sacked for selling off football, one of our most valuable industries. I hope there are still a few investigative journalists around doing thorough jobs because - if Man City's 115 charges are all dropped AND their legal action wins, it will reek of collusion and corruption similar to FIFA. How do you distinguish between allowing oil rich people to own a club as compared to gambling rich people? Porn rich people? I didn't say people - I said nation-states. Its a completely different ball game (literally!) when a nation-state buys a football club. Qatar and the Saudis have more money than God - individual capitalists like the Coates, arent even on the same planet. Also its not just about the money. The Qataris and Saudis don't give two shits about football - they are buying global brands, trying to diversify their economies and buying influence in the West, PR, prestige from sports washing that the money buys.
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 7, 2024 14:05:04 GMT
The issue i think is letting nation states buy clubs. They are very difficult to sue. Especially when you want their oil and they have a big control of that oil market.. They don't. Oil is bought and sold on world markets whatever they tried to do there'd be a third party work around and they're only sabre rattling anyhow. But the point is this has led or will lead to our govt having to step in to deal with a nation state. The rules of the negotiation have changed. And we don't want to be off negotiating buying Russian oil anytime soon should we lose outlets elsewhere. And I guess there are all sorts of other bargaining chips that will be on the table. Its definitely unchartered territory and I can see it being a devastating blow all round..
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 7, 2024 14:10:04 GMT
How do you distinguish between allowing oil rich people to own a club as compared to gambling rich people? Porn rich people? I didn't say people - I said nation-states. Its a completely different ball game (literally!) when a nation-state buys a football club. Qatar and the Saudis have more money than God - individual capitalists like the Coates, arent even on the same planet. Also its not just about the money. The Qataris and Saudis don't give two shits about football - they are buying global brands, trying to diversify their economies and buying influence in the West, PR, prestige from sports washing that the money buys. I get that but it isn't about who has the most money and we're wealthy compared to many at our level. As for not caring about football, how many owners do we see buying clubs then seeming to lose interest when the big £s don't come instantly? Birmingham and Sheff Weds two recent examples.
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 14:11:15 GMT
How do you distinguish between allowing oil rich people to own a club as compared to gambling rich people? Porn rich people? I didn't say people - I said nation-states. Its a completely different ball game (literally!) when a nation-state buys a football club. Qatar and the Saudis have more money than God - individual capitalists like the Coates, arent even on the same planet. Also its not just about the money. The Qataris and Saudis don't give two shits about football - they are buying global brands, trying to diversify their economies and buying influence in the West, PR, prestige from sports washing that the money buys. Why does it matter? They were calling out the name of the Crown Prince at the boxing last weekend. Did it really make anyone think he isn't an insecure murdering bastard? Certainly didn't make me think I'm not sure whether I want to watch this now they've done that. Hope he doesn't read the Oatcake else that's me under the bone saw.
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 7, 2024 14:15:17 GMT
I didn't say people - I said nation-states. Its a completely different ball game (literally!) when a nation-state buys a football club. Qatar and the Saudis have more money than God - individual capitalists like the Coates, arent even on the same planet. Also its not just about the money. The Qataris and Saudis don't give two shits about football - they are buying global brands, trying to diversify their economies and buying influence in the West, PR, prestige from sports washing that the money buys. I get that but it isn't about who has the most money and we're wealthy compared to many at our level. As for not caring about football, how many owners do we see buying clubs then seeming to lose interest when the big £s don't come instantly? Birmingham and Sheff Weds two recent examples. But the point is a nation state via ownership of a high profile English club has bagged itself a ransom. In that they can now say penalise us and we can cause you geopolitical problems. Its unchartered territory..and definitely very problematic as I see it.. Plus how do you penalise an entity worth trillions.. Seems like a massive issue to me
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 14:17:31 GMT
They don't. Oil is bought and sold on world markets whatever they tried to do there'd be a third party work around and they're only sabre rattling anyhow. But the point is this has led or will lead to our govt having to step in to deal with a nation state. The rules of the negotiation have changed. And we don't want to be off negotiating buying Russian oil anytime soon should we lose outlets elsewhere. And I guess there are all sorts of other bargaining chips that will be on the table. Its definitely unchartered territory and I can see it being a devastating blow all round.. As I said they sell their oil on world markets once they've sold it they have zero control over it. It can be bought and sold numerous times thereafter. Russian oil is not freely traded on world markets because of sanctions (they're not working anyway). Russia still doesn't struggle to sell it's oil and gas. Maybe we could attract China to come in and sort our roads out if they think it would bring them some prestige and win hearts and minds.
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 7, 2024 14:18:21 GMT
I get that but it isn't about who has the most money and we're wealthy compared to many at our level. As for not caring about football, how many owners do we see buying clubs then seeming to lose interest when the big £s don't come instantly? Birmingham and Sheff Weds two recent examples. But the point is a nation state via ownership of a high profile English club has bagged itself a ransom. In that they can now say penalise us and we can cause you geopolitical problems. Its unchartered territory..and definitely very problematic as I see it.. Plus how do you penalise an entity worth trillions.. Seems like a massive issue to me Yep see your point but personally have no.problem with investment in football and would be enjoying the ride if a Newcastle fan hate to say.
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 7, 2024 14:27:17 GMT
But the point is this has led or will lead to our govt having to step in to deal with a nation state. The rules of the negotiation have changed. And we don't want to be off negotiating buying Russian oil anytime soon should we lose outlets elsewhere. And I guess there are all sorts of other bargaining chips that will be on the table. Its definitely unchartered territory and I can see it being a devastating blow all round.. As I said they sell their oil on world markets once they've sold it they have zero control over it. It can be bought and sold numerous times thereafter. Russian oil is not freely traded on world markets because of sanctions (they're not working anyway). Russia still doesn't struggle to sell it's oil and gas. Maybe we could attract China to come in and sort our roads out if they think it would bring them some prestige and win hearts and minds. I'll be honest Bacon i don't profess to understand the machinations of the world oil markets. But I do see how giving a nation state full ownership of a high profile English football team could cause geopolitical issues. It should never have been allowed to happen from what I'm seeing now.
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 15:23:12 GMT
As I said they sell their oil on world markets once they've sold it they have zero control over it. It can be bought and sold numerous times thereafter. Russian oil is not freely traded on world markets because of sanctions (they're not working anyway). Russia still doesn't struggle to sell it's oil and gas. Maybe we could attract China to come in and sort our roads out if they think it would bring them some prestige and win hearts and minds. I'll be honest Bacon i don't profess to understand the machinations of the world oil markets. But I do see how giving a nation state full ownership of a high profile English football team could cause geopolitical issues. It should never have been allowed to happen from what I'm seeing now. That’s because you’re not seeing any of the benefits I doubt very much fans that are seeing the benefits would agree with you as explained by my if they bought Stoke and we won the champions league analogy. Some people might be concerned if China sorted out our roads any they were sponsored by the Chinese communist party but many I’d guess more wouldn’t give a shit and just love driving on nice smooth tarmac. Most people who voted for Brexit couldn’t give a shit about all this sovereignty shit and voted for strict controls on immigration, that worked a treat🤣🤣
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 7, 2024 16:04:26 GMT
I'll be honest Bacon i don't profess to understand the machinations of the world oil markets. But I do see how giving a nation state full ownership of a high profile English football team could cause geopolitical issues. It should never have been allowed to happen from what I'm seeing now. That’s because you’re not seeing any of the benefits I doubt very much fans that are seeing the benefits would agree with you as explained by my if they bought Stoke and we won the champions league analogy. Some people might be concerned if China sorted out our roads any they were sponsored by the Chinese communist party but many I’d guess more wouldn’t give a shit and just love driving on nice smooth tarmac. Most people who voted for Brexit couldn’t give a shit about all this sovereignty shit and voted for strict controls on immigration, that worked a treat🤣🤣 By the same analogy would you be happy with the Chinese building our telecommunications infrastructure and nuclear facilities?
|
|
|
Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 16:15:17 GMT
That’s because you’re not seeing any of the benefits I doubt very much fans that are seeing the benefits would agree with you as explained by my if they bought Stoke and we won the champions league analogy. Some people might be concerned if China sorted out our roads any they were sponsored by the Chinese communist party but many I’d guess more wouldn’t give a shit and just love driving on nice smooth tarmac. Most people who voted for Brexit couldn’t give a shit about all this sovereignty shit and voted for strict controls on immigration, that worked a treat🤣🤣 By the same analogy would you be happy with the Chinese building our telecommunications infrastructure and nuclear facilities? It’s a completely different situation. If they wanted to build them for nothing I’d want to make sure they weren’t critical but provided they weren’t absolutely. The reality is we’d have to pay them just like we would for them in my sort out the roads analogy. We don’t have to pay them to spend hundreds of millions/billions at a football club. They do that mainly for vanity.
|
|
|
Post by Royal Donut on Jun 7, 2024 17:13:15 GMT
Genuine question coming from a place of stupidity, is there another industry that is governed in such a way that it limits investment? Putting aside the governance for monopolies which I don't think this would fall under. I’m sure F1 have a cap, and get punished for spending to much(x amount a year), I think they can have so many spare engines a season/year and a few other things but I don’t really watch it, so don’t know exactly how it works.
|
|
|
Post by Royal Donut on Jun 7, 2024 17:41:51 GMT
By the same analogy would you be happy with the Chinese building our telecommunications infrastructure and nuclear facilities? It’s a completely different situation. If they wanted to build them for nothing I’d want to make sure they weren’t critical but provided they weren’t absolutely. The reality is we’d have to pay them just like we would for them in my sort out the roads analogy. We don’t have to pay them to spend hundreds of millions/billions at a football club. They do that mainly for vanity. How do you know, we buy their oil, they made a deal with the government before they brought the club, regarding investment into Manchester and surrounding area of the ground, this is a fact.
|
|
|
Post by tuum on Jun 7, 2024 18:08:20 GMT
I think citeh, the scum, dippers, the shit and the rest of those tossers who want their super league should all fuck off and leave the real meaning of saturday afternoon football to the other 80 odd clubs who actually gives a toss about tradition and the real meaning of the game. I wouldn't miss any of them. How long before those at the top of the newly formed Division One start moaning about not being able to get into the Euro Super League (ESL) because it is a closed shop? Then we will get ESL2 or ESL Europa etc. If the majority stick together the new Division 1 could work but it will be like herding cats. I think we should give it a go and get rid of the greedy bastards.
|
|
|
Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jun 7, 2024 20:30:55 GMT
But, speaking on Friday in the Financial Times, FSG chair Werner (Liverpool chairman) admitted: "I’m determined one day to have a Premier League game be played in New York City.
"I even have the sort of crazy idea that there would be a day where we play one game in Tokyo, one game a few hours later in Los Angeles, one game a few hours later in Rio, one game a few hours later in Riyadh and make it sort of a day where football, where the Premier League, is celebrated."
|
|
|
Post by raythesailor on Jun 7, 2024 20:47:15 GMT
Man City need to be banged on the head with a very large hammer.
This is OUR game and Our heritage.
If that means less TV and adverts so be it .
Saturday 3:00 KO is ok by me. T v companies will soon come creeping back.
OUR GAME
|
|