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Post by Gods on Jun 4, 2024 22:40:54 GMT
Money talks. Gouranga. But it don't sing and dance and it don't walk.
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Post by skip on Jun 4, 2024 23:33:56 GMT
If you have money to invest in YOUR business, why can you not invest? Because this is a sporting competition, not a straight forward 'business'. It's why they have spending rules (whether they work or not is a moot point). Money has always had the last word in football but right now, virtually every single club in the top division that isn't Man City can only dream of winning the Premier League. Actually, most don't dream of winning, they have night sweats just at the thought of attempting to stay up.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jun 5, 2024 8:00:25 GMT
Its not even about money - there is MASSIVE political implications if Man City are penalised. The Saudi's have made it clear to the British government - if they punish Man City then dont try selling any of your defence products to us and pay a bit more for our precious oil. The whole delay behind the scenes until this hearing in November now!! Its all because this has reached governmental level. The Premier League should NEVER have let foreign governments own football clubs. Not just because of the insane levels of money but OF COURSE there are political implications. Is there a link to this story? www.nytimes.com/athletic/4889001/2023/09/22/man-city-charges-premier-league-abu-dhabi/https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/16p7ibd/the_uk_government_has_admitted_its_embassy_in_abu/ Its all rumours and hearsay, and newspapers wont dare to print it for fear of libel. But 100% the UK government has admitted they are involved in discussion with the Premier League about the Man City case. It has implications beyond just football at this point hence the long delays.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 5, 2024 8:35:43 GMT
It’s not though, it’s nothing like that; more like it’s like the government telling you that you cannot invest in your own business and grow it, because some of their mates at another business don’t like it in case you take their business away. I agree with what you say about breaking the rules, they knew them and should comply, but the rules were specifically created to block them and other similar clubs. So whether you agree with them, or Newcastle or us even, the bigger clubs have tried to close the shop to protect themselves and their own interests. If you have money to invest in YOUR business, why can you not invest? In regular businesses, there are counter-measures to stop monopolies. It’s actually an incredibly important element of business. Various mergers get blocked through these anti-monopoly measures. Monopolies are not good for sport. The SPL would probably be far more interesting if Celtic and Rangers weren’t the only teams likely to ever win the league, for example. I hope that you are one of the limited number of people who get excited about the SPL if you think it’s a good idea to allow Man City to continue to steam roll their monopoly with foreign govt money, and then for Newcastle to do the same. The end of the season is already a fore gone conclusion for first. Yep - the clubs might as well send in their bank account statements at the start if the season and then hand out the trophies without out bothering with the inconconvenience of actually playing any games. At least it would get rid of VAR.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 5, 2024 8:39:23 GMT
Is there a link to this story? www.nytimes.com/athletic/4889001/2023/09/22/man-city-charges-premier-league-abu-dhabi/https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/16p7ibd/the_uk_government_has_admitted_its_embassy_in_abu/ Its all rumours and hearsay, and newspapers wont dare to print it for fear of libel. But 100% the UK government has admitted they are involved in discussion with the Premier League about the Man City case. It has implications beyond just football at this point hence the long delays. So basically the Saudi government are holding the UK government to ransom over tbeir right to cheat their way to sporting success in the UK? For that alone Man City should be chucked out of the league.
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Post by Rt Hon Reverend Luvpump on Jun 5, 2024 8:44:10 GMT
So does this mean if Man City win the Coates can get his Dong out🤷♂️
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jun 5, 2024 8:52:51 GMT
www.nytimes.com/athletic/4889001/2023/09/22/man-city-charges-premier-league-abu-dhabi/https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/16p7ibd/the_uk_government_has_admitted_its_embassy_in_abu/ Its all rumours and hearsay, and newspapers wont dare to print it for fear of libel. But 100% the UK government has admitted they are involved in discussion with the Premier League about the Man City case. It has implications beyond just football at this point hence the long delays. So basically the Saudi government are holding the UK government to ransom over tbeir right to cheat their way to sporting success in the UK? For that alone Man City should be chucked out of the league. The problem is the owners of Man City are clearly the ones in breach of fiddling the numbers and that happens to be the UAE government. That would look very bad on them and their interests as football for sportswashing among other things. Its money and politics that goes way beyond just football and sport. The Premier League have got themselves in a right pickle here. Expect the charges to quietly disappear, but then that puts the Forest and Everton points deduction last season in the spotlight and they would surely appeal and the whole FFP thing would fall down. Then it would extend to the Champions League and the UEFA FFP rules - all the European clubs would be up in arms about it. So now the UK government is in a pickle about what to do.
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Post by devondumpling on Jun 5, 2024 9:07:54 GMT
So basically the Saudi government are holding the UK government to ransom over tbeir right to cheat their way to sporting success in the UK? For that alone Man City should be chucked out of the league. The problem is the owners of Man City are clearly the ones in breach of fiddling the numbers and that happens to be the UAE government. That would look very bad on them and their interests as football for sportswashing among other things. Its money and politics that goes way beyond just football and sport. The Premier League have got themselves in a right pickle here. Expect the charges to quietly disappear, but then that puts the Forest and Everton points deduction last season in the spotlight and they would surely appeal and the whole FFP thing would fall down. Then it would extend to the Champions League and the UEFA FFP rules - all the European clubs would be up in arms about it. So now the UK government is in a pickle about what to do. Alternatively grow some balls and chuck them out. Loads on here were claiming Real are cheats, not compared to this, and it also puts Saint Pep's achievements in perspective. Ancellotti five times winner Champion league and twice as a player.
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Post by eddyclamp on Jun 5, 2024 9:10:45 GMT
I just hate what football has become
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jun 5, 2024 9:12:56 GMT
If we didn't have to rely on oil this episode would be over in an instant and citeh would be playing Bury and Macclesfield instead of spurs, villa and the rest.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jun 5, 2024 9:14:32 GMT
I just hate what football has become Its making non league a viable option to get your weekly fix. Imagine if we all turned our backs on it and went to Foley Meir or Newcastle Town or Rocester instead.
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Post by thornestein on Jun 5, 2024 9:41:11 GMT
Sounds pretty much like the scenario & circumstances we currently see anyway! No it isn't. Man City broke rules that others abided by. The success came as a result of cheating. Now that they have been caught red handed theyvare saying the rules (which stopped others competing with them) are unfair and should be scrapped. The thing is without those rules other clubs will find it impossible to compete with them because their resources are on a different planet. The rules are there to prevent clubs from extending themselves to compete financially. If there is no constraint the likes of Man City will just buy success and those daft enough to go toe to toe will go bust. The only clubs who will benefit from this are those financed by oil rich states. If anyone thinks the likes of Stoke will benefit from this just hasn't got a clue. as it been proven they broke the rules , only being accused so far
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Post by noustie on Jun 5, 2024 9:47:03 GMT
I just hate what football has become Its making non league a viable option to get your weekly fix. Imagine if we all turned our backs on it and went to Foley Meir or Newcastle Town or Rocester instead. I can see it going that way where folk who're happy consuming it as a product follow the inevitable Super League with worldwide fixtures via whatever subscription packages. Others will start going back to old skool football regardless of the quality because the competition part is better. Some will do both. It just goes back to business thrives on certainty whereas sporting competition thrives on uncertainty and for me the balance at the top is massively skewed so it's getting less and less enjoyable.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 5, 2024 9:50:20 GMT
No it isn't. Man City broke rules that others abided by. The success came as a result of cheating. Now that they have been caught red handed theyvare saying the rules (which stopped others competing with them) are unfair and should be scrapped. The thing is without those rules other clubs will find it impossible to compete with them because their resources are on a different planet. The rules are there to prevent clubs from extending themselves to compete financially. If there is no constraint the likes of Man City will just buy success and those daft enough to go toe to toe will go bust. The only clubs who will benefit from this are those financed by oil rich states. If anyone thinks the likes of Stoke will benefit from this just hasn't got a clue. as it been proven they broke the rules , only being accused so far Fair point - they haven't been found guilty. However the fact they are taking legal action to overturn rules that they have been accused of breaking seems to suggest that they did in fact break those rules. Also my point was to a previous comment which suggested that the Man City situation was business as usual and I was pointing out the implications of what they are accused of doing. That point stands regardless of the specific case.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 5, 2024 10:01:32 GMT
Its making non league a viable option to get your weekly fix. Imagine if we all turned our backs on it and went to Foley Meir or Newcastle Town or Rocester instead. I can see it going that way where folk who're happy consuming it as a product follow the inevitable Super League with worldwide fixtures via whatever subscription packages. Others will start going back to old skool football regardless of the quality because the competition part is better. Some will do both. It just goes back to business thrives on certainty whereas sporting competition thrives on uncertainty and for me the balance at the top is massively skewed so it's getting less and less enjoyable. Half a billion people watched the CL final so if anything, popularity is increasing. There were always richer teams in football . When Forest were European Champions they had the first million pound player even who scored the winner. Man U and Liverpool dominated for 2 decades and outspent other teams. Nothing has really changed.
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Post by Royal Donut on Jun 5, 2024 10:12:03 GMT
I can see it going that way where folk who're happy consuming it as a product follow the inevitable Super League with worldwide fixtures via whatever subscription packages. Others will start going back to old skool football regardless of the quality because the competition part is better. Some will do both. It just goes back to business thrives on certainty whereas sporting competition thrives on uncertainty and for me the balance at the top is massively skewed so it's getting less and less enjoyable. Half a billion people watched the CL final so if anything, popularity is increasing. There were always richer teams in football . When Forest were European Champions they had the first million pound player even who scored the winner. Man U and Liverpool dominated for 2 decades and outspent other teams. Nothing has really changed. I was going say FFP has changed it, but maybe not we will find out. Half a billion may have watched it, I watch the big fights in boxing, do I care about boxing no not at all, do I care if it goes bust no, do I care if they cancel boxing tomorrow no. Just because people are watching it it doesn’t mean it’s good for the game. A billion people might watch the super league does this mean it’s better maybe so, is it good for football on whole definitely not.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 5, 2024 10:17:19 GMT
Half a billion people watched the CL final so if anything, popularity is increasing. There were always richer teams in football . When Forest were European Champions they had the first million pound player even who scored the winner. Man U and Liverpool dominated for 2 decades and outspent other teams. Nothing has really changed. I was going say FFP has changed it, but maybe not we will find out. Half a billion may have watched it, I watch the big fights in boxing, do I care about boxing no not at all, do I care if it goes bust no, do I care if they cancel boxing tomorrow no. Just because people are watching it it doesn’t mean it’s good for the game. A billion people might watch the super league does this mean it’s better maybe so, is it good for football on whole definitely not. The number of people worldwide who watch the Premier League proves that not to be the case. 11% increase in recent times
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 5, 2024 10:29:31 GMT
If Man City win their case against the FA,would it have any bearing on clubs who have had pts deductions in the past?
If it does,what about the clubs who were relegated because of of it?
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Post by Royal Donut on Jun 5, 2024 10:35:47 GMT
I was going say FFP has changed it, but maybe not we will find out. Half a billion may have watched it, I watch the big fights in boxing, do I care about boxing no not at all, do I care if it goes bust no, do I care if they cancel boxing tomorrow no. Just because people are watching it it doesn’t mean it’s good for the game. A billion people might watch the super league does this mean it’s better maybe so, is it good for football on whole definitely not. The number of people worldwide who watch the Premier League proves that not to be the case. 11% increase in recent times Yes I agree with everything you say, Man City cheat all you like, football is better for it , increase figures must be a good thing, Liverpool sorry you lost by a point to a team that cheated, sorry you couldn’t buy the extra player that could of made a difference, because they stayed within the rules. They cheated clear and simple, maybe the kid who hacked the accounts should have taken a bung, not try to do the decent thing and expose it. I mean after all the figures have increased football is better for it
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 5, 2024 10:36:06 GMT
If Man City win their case against the FA,would it have any bearing on clubs who have had pts deductions in the past? If it does,what about the clubs who were relegated because of of it? Man City have launched a case against the Premier League, not the FA. Also it is in relation to a very specific issue - money received in the form of sponsorship so any retrospective action against clubs previously docked points would only apply to those docked points because of sponsorship deals.
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Post by skip on Jun 5, 2024 10:41:44 GMT
You'd be forgiven for hypothesising that Man City are taking on the Premier League in this manner to force their hand in agreeing to letting themselves naff off to a European Super League.
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Post by Royal Donut on Jun 5, 2024 10:43:32 GMT
If Man City win their case against the FA,would it have any bearing on clubs who have had pts deductions in the past? If it does,what about the clubs who were relegated because of of it? Opens a can of worms doesn’t it , but unlike Man City they didn’t make a deal with the government before buying the club so probably just tough. The clubs docked points have all accepted they done wrong where’s Man City haven’t. The other thing is when you go court and plead guilty you get a reduced sentence (lesser punishment) . Man City deny everything, so would they get the same punishment for each offence like the other teams or would it be more, if this is the case, everyone can start dragging it through the courts with no extra punishment.
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Post by idle on Jun 5, 2024 10:53:00 GMT
I just hate what football has become Its making non league a viable option to get your weekly fix. Imagine if we all turned our backs on it and went to Foley Meir or Newcastle Town or Rocester instead. They'd just use AI to simulate crowds and noise and the TV crowd would be none the wiser. They never go to games anyway. Some players might react badly though.
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Post by skip on Jun 5, 2024 10:55:45 GMT
Its making non league a viable option to get your weekly fix. Imagine if we all turned our backs on it and went to Foley Meir or Newcastle Town or Rocester instead. They'd just use AI to simulate crowds and noise and the TV crowd would be none the wiser. They never go to games anyway. Some players might react badly though. We'd be none the wiser?! Have you seen the state of AI generated humans? That video game formerly known as FIFA does a better job of digitally generated crowds.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jun 5, 2024 11:05:43 GMT
I wonder if City win in court they’ll get a few extra points next season? 😉
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Post by Lightwood on Jun 5, 2024 11:25:47 GMT
This is brilliant
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Post by noustie on Jun 5, 2024 11:34:07 GMT
I can see it going that way where folk who're happy consuming it as a product follow the inevitable Super League with worldwide fixtures via whatever subscription packages. Others will start going back to old skool football regardless of the quality because the competition part is better. Some will do both. It just goes back to business thrives on certainty whereas sporting competition thrives on uncertainty and for me the balance at the top is massively skewed so it's getting less and less enjoyable. Half a billion people watched the CL final so if anything, popularity is increasing. There were always richer teams in football . When Forest were European Champions they had the first million pound player even who scored the winner. Man U and Liverpool dominated for 2 decades and outspent other teams. Nothing has really changed. Problem is if popularity drops in the UK, in terms of the Premier League, then worldwide will follow - happened with Serie A and happened in Spain too when they messed about with the tv deals. In terms of folk who usually watch football though the number seems fairly stagnant as Channel 4 had 3m watching Italian football; Sky Sports Main Event gets 3m for big games and would be amazed if TNT are getting 3m for Champions League unless it's later stages and/or two english teams playing. The only thing that seems to be growing is the platforms that it can be watched upon along with the bills for doing so in the UK - the recent tv deals are defo showing elements of stagnation. Big teams have always dominated but the gulf now is huge in comparison - Man City could probably field 2 teams that would make the champions league. It isn't just a case that an Aberdeen isn't going to win a European competition anymore but the Champions League isn't being won by a team outside of England, Spain, Germany and Italy - even PSG can't do it wedged up to the eyeballs!
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 5, 2024 11:40:12 GMT
I was going say FFP has changed it, but maybe not we will find out. Half a billion may have watched it, I watch the big fights in boxing, do I care about boxing no not at all, do I care if it goes bust no, do I care if they cancel boxing tomorrow no. Just because people are watching it it doesn’t mean it’s good for the game. A billion people might watch the super league does this mean it’s better maybe so, is it good for football on whole definitely not. The number of people worldwide who watch the Premier League proves that not to be the case. 11% increase in recent times I think it depends on what criteria you use for assessing what is 'good' for the game. If its popularity and income then it is doing well. Its opened up a global market that wasn't there before so the the numbers are going to be relatively huge and should keep growing. Plus the investment in marketing generally is huge and this scale of marketing usually does pay off. Whether this is the way alot of local fans would like to see the game going is another thing. The game doesn't need local communities as fan base anymore so it's not surprising that not everyone is super happy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2024 11:57:23 GMT
The number of people worldwide who watch the Premier League proves that not to be the case. 11% increase in recent times I think it depends on what criteria you use for assessing what is 'good' for the game. If its popularity and income then it is doing well. Its opened up a global market that wasn't there before so the the numbers are going to be relatively huge and should keep growing. Plus the investment in marketing generally is huge and this scale of marketing usually does pay off. Whether this is the way alot of local fans would like to see the game going is another thing. The game doesn't need local communities as fan base anymore so it's not surprising that not everyone is super happy. That’s it really, isn’t it. Football clubs are no longer about local communities. The goal is to get big and increase exposure to the point that the local fanbase means nothing.
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Post by idle on Jun 5, 2024 12:09:19 GMT
They'd just use AI to simulate crowds and noise and the TV crowd would be none the wiser. They never go to games anyway. Some players might react badly though. We'd be none the wiser?! Have you seen the state of AI generated humans? That video game formerly known as FIFA does a better job of digitally generated crowds. Yes, because nothing ever improves when need arises. I've seen AI generated crowds, and they're far far better than FIFA, who just use blocks of drawn people from one section copied around the stadium. Of course the TV crowd won't notice, and if they do they won't care. How many actually cared when they removed the sound of "improper" chanting?
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