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Post by spitthedog on Jun 5, 2024 12:54:21 GMT
I think it depends on what criteria you use for assessing what is 'good' for the game. If its popularity and income then it is doing well. Its opened up a global market that wasn't there before so the the numbers are going to be relatively huge and should keep growing. Plus the investment in marketing generally is huge and this scale of marketing usually does pay off. Whether this is the way alot of local fans would like to see the game going is another thing. The game doesn't need local communities as fan base anymore so it's not surprising that not everyone is super happy. That’s it really, isn’t it. Football clubs are no longer about local communities. The goal is to get big and increase exposure to the point that the local fanbase means nothing. I think there will always be a significant number who will want that 'local' experience and affiliation, but the profile of the game is going to be dominated by the 'global' football market. Teams like Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds are still getting quite decent attendances which is encouraging, but it will be interesting to see where this goes with the next generation.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 5, 2024 13:03:42 GMT
We'd be none the wiser?! Have you seen the state of AI generated humans? That video game formerly known as FIFA does a better job of digitally generated crowds. Yes, because nothing ever improves when need arises. I've seen AI generated crowds, and they're far far better than FIFA, who just use blocks of drawn people from one section copied around the stadium. Of course the TV crowd won't notice, and if they do they won't care. How many actually cared when they removed the sound of "improper" chanting? You must be right I didn’t even know that had happened (removed sound of improper chanting) I can’t really tell what crowds are chanting anyway it’s just noise to me I’m hard of hearing. I do prefer the information provided when we’re on Sky to the local radio stuff you get on ifollow. I don’t know why people keep moaning the situation of being able to watch your club play virtually every game is a massive improvement on only about a decade ago or less, it’s well worth any disruption.
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Post by noustie on Jun 5, 2024 13:09:32 GMT
That’s it really, isn’t it. Football clubs are no longer about local communities. The goal is to get big and increase exposure to the point that the local fanbase means nothing. I think there will always be a significant number who will want that 'local' experience and affiliation, but the profile of the game is going to be dominated by the 'global' football market. Teams like Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds are still getting quite decent attendances which is encouraging, but it will be interesting to see where this goes with the next generation. I think this is what will ultimately make it fall on its arse or go two separate directions. Essentially I don't think it is just the glory that attracts the glory hunters - it's also experiencing that glory vicariously through the local fan base. Can see a Super League being NFL franchise type game overseas whereas whatever is left is more college football with teams popularity being more local.
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 5, 2024 13:34:15 GMT
I think there will always be a significant number who will want that 'local' experience and affiliation, but the profile of the game is going to be dominated by the 'global' football market. Teams like Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds are still getting quite decent attendances which is encouraging, but it will be interesting to see where this goes with the next generation. I think this is what will ultimately make it fall on its arse or go two separate directions. Essentially I don't think it is just the glory that attracts the glory hunters - it's also experiencing that glory vicariously through the local fan base. Can see a Super League being NFL franchise type game overseas whereas whatever is left is more college football with teams popularity being more local. I posted a couple of weeks ago that I was in Leeds on the day of the last PL game this season. I was amazed with how many folk I saw walking around with Arsenal, and Man City shirts on, presumably off to the pub to watch the game. I cant believe that these were all from London or Manchester? though in these days of economic mobility you never know? To me, this suggests the football brand is growing because this support base doesn't seem to be negatively impacting on local crowds. That is, Leeds crowds are holding up so these Leeds based Arsenal supporters would never have possibly considered supporting Leeds anyway? Apologies if a bit off topic but I think relevant to the expanding markets of major clubs I suppose.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2024 13:54:54 GMT
That’s it really, isn’t it. Football clubs are no longer about local communities. The goal is to get big and increase exposure to the point that the local fanbase means nothing. I think there will always be a significant number who will want that 'local' experience and affiliation, but the profile of the game is going to be dominated by the 'global' football market. Teams like Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds are still getting quite decent attendances which is encouraging, but it will be interesting to see where this goes with the next generation. I think that attendances will remain similar but more clubs will look less and less to local support. I can’t imagine Man Utd (for example) care about the people in Manchester because most of the money comes from outside it. As more external money gets pumped in, the cut off for that will be lower and lower. The top clubs are “brands”. As more money gets pumped in, more clubs will follow the same path for greed and for fear of getting left behind.
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Post by skip on Jun 5, 2024 14:09:28 GMT
We'd be none the wiser?! Have you seen the state of AI generated humans? That video game formerly known as FIFA does a better job of digitally generated crowds. Yes, because nothing ever improves when need arises. I've seen AI generated crowds, and they're far far better than FIFA, who just use blocks of drawn people from one section copied around the stadium. Of course the TV crowd won't notice, and if they do they won't care. How many actually cared when they removed the sound of "improper" chanting? Would genuinely be interested to see some examples if you can point me in the right direction, or screenshot some on here? (It's work related as much as football).
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Post by noustie on Jun 5, 2024 14:30:15 GMT
I think this is what will ultimately make it fall on its arse or go two separate directions. Essentially I don't think it is just the glory that attracts the glory hunters - it's also experiencing that glory vicariously through the local fan base. Can see a Super League being NFL franchise type game overseas whereas whatever is left is more college football with teams popularity being more local. I posted a couple of weeks ago that I was in Leeds on the day of the last PL game this season. I was amazed with how many folk I saw walking around with Arsenal, and Man City shirts on, presumably off to the pub to watch the game. I cant believe that these were all from London or Manchester? though in these days of economic mobility you never know? To me, this suggests the football brand is growing because this support base doesn't seem to be negatively impacting on local crowds. That is, Leeds crowds are holding up so these Leeds based Arsenal supporters would never have possibly considered supporting Leeds anyway? Apologies if a bit off topic but I think relevant to the expanding markets of major clubs I suppose. I genuinely couldn't get my head around being from, or growing up in Leeds, but supporting someone else - boggles my mind. There's probably enough folk in Leeds to support their local side whilst a clutch of losers glory hunt. It's more of an issue for somewhere like Dundee which seems to have as many old firm fans as those supporting their local side before even factoring in the weirdos shouting at the tele in the pub when Man U, Arsenal etc are on. What I'm sort of meaning is, regardless if it is Leeds or Lahore, there is something more than just glory they're grasping for or else why not just pick Real Madrid or whichever side is winning the Prem that year? There must be something in the local fans support / culture that attracts them on top of just the potential to win trophies and if the club take their eye off their local fan base will they lose an element of their appeal?
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Post by thepottypotter on Jun 5, 2024 14:33:24 GMT
Bunch of cocks who stole the FA cup from us by cooking the books for years. 115 charges and the case is still dragging on!
Hope this new legal action of theirs fails miserably.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 5, 2024 14:58:53 GMT
If Man City win their case against the FA,would it have any bearing on clubs who have had pts deductions in the past? If it does,what about the clubs who were relegated because of of it? It's not the FA, it's the Premier League
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 5, 2024 15:29:02 GMT
I kind of feel that the Premier League have brought this on themselves in many ways. They’ve continuously preached to the power of the big clubs, making sacrifices for their benefit. It’s a bit like the beast is eating itself.
It’ll be interesting to see the outcome, whichever way it goes.
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Post by Royal Donut on Jun 5, 2024 15:47:17 GMT
FFP maybe the biggest factor for me, I mean ticket sales are an income, so they put up the ticket price (spurs just increased ticket prices for the most loyal supporters), if the club don’t increase the ticket prices they are missing out,basically punishing the owners who can afford it , and increasing it for those who can’t.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Jun 5, 2024 17:12:39 GMT
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Post by pavel on Jun 5, 2024 17:24:36 GMT
So that's that then, all the family have to do is drive up to Preston to the EFL offices, unzip and drop it on to the table, and off we go treading all over FFP... Yep, get BET365 to sponsor a corner flag for £50 million and away we go. Nah, all four corner flags, nets and centre circle.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 5, 2024 17:28:22 GMT
BET365 foam fingers for all is a must
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jun 5, 2024 19:10:36 GMT
Can you imagine if we won it lol. Would be the greatest day ever.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jun 5, 2024 19:15:00 GMT
I think citeh, the scum, dippers, the shit and the rest of those tossers who want their super league should all fuck off and leave the real meaning of saturday afternoon football to the other 80 odd clubs who actually gives a toss about tradition and the real meaning of the game.
I wouldn't miss any of them.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 6, 2024 6:35:27 GMT
I think citeh, the scum, dippers, the shit and the rest of those tossers who want their super league should all fuck off and leave the real meaning of saturday afternoon football to the other 80 odd clubs who actually gives a toss about tradition and the real meaning of the game. I wouldn't miss any of them. I'm going that way as well. It would actually reflect the division in the fan base between those who see football as a competitive sport and those that see it as a branch of the entertainment industry with all the vacuus crap that goes with it. And I'll say it again - please take VAR with you when you leave the building.
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Post by idle on Jun 6, 2024 6:53:21 GMT
Yes, because nothing ever improves when need arises. I've seen AI generated crowds, and they're far far better than FIFA, who just use blocks of drawn people from one section copied around the stadium. Of course the TV crowd won't notice, and if they do they won't care. How many actually cared when they removed the sound of "improper" chanting? Would genuinely be interested to see some examples if you can point me in the right direction, or screenshot some on here? (It's work related as much as football). Can't seem to find it now. Typical. I hate "trust me bro"-moments
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Post by Gods on Jun 6, 2024 7:26:06 GMT
Malcom Clarke on Sky News this morning talking about this.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 6, 2024 11:22:55 GMT
Malcom Clarke on Sky News this morning talking about this. Did it come over OK, Godfrey ? It was a pre-record yesterday outside the Etihad and of course you never know which few seconds they will actually use. I also did one for the BBC ( in my garden). This is Dan Roan's tweet of part of it. But at least I gave some free advertising to Stoke City ( and Bet365 ! ) x.com/danroan/status/1798368839098659048?s=43
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jun 6, 2024 11:56:55 GMT
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Post by ceejays on Jun 6, 2024 12:20:59 GMT
It’s as if the power of those at the top has suddenly happened. People need to give their heads a wobble . Man city have poured millions into other clubs . Who would buy Jack Grealish for £100m bar city for instance. Not to say the millions they’ve poured into their surrounding area creating jobs and community wealth . Stoke are not squeaky clean with staff on Bet365 books . Any accountant will tell you that creative accounting exists in virtually any company of substance . Raiding pension pots manipulating stocks and diverting costs with labour transfers not to say of teeming and lading . It’s just pure jealousy. For years we had Fergie time intimidating tactics. Banning journalists who dare mention the name Giggs . Between 1994 and 2000 Man Utd had no penalty given against them at Old Trafford . The first time one was 7 players surrounded the referee for minutes . City and Pep just don’t go down that route just as Cloughie didn’t years ago . Man Utd were bought with DEBT which is a far bigger issue . Chelsea have given 8 year contracts to get round the absurd rules in place .
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 6, 2024 12:40:29 GMT
Great article that is. The Premier League has to stand up against City. This is literally the Premier League by a thread if this doesn't fall the right way. My grandad always said the worst thing we did was give football away to Fifa. He'd turn in his grave if he knew we were on the brink of now giving our home football away.
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Post by ceejays on Jun 6, 2024 13:00:56 GMT
What nonsense . Leicester City
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2024 13:22:00 GMT
It’s as if the power of those at the top has suddenly happened. People need to give their heads a wobble . Man city have poured millions into other clubs . Who would buy Jack Grealish for £100m bar city for instance. Not to say the millions they’ve poured into their surrounding area creating jobs and community wealth . Stoke are not squeaky clean with staff on Bet365 books . Any accountant will tell you that creative accounting exists in virtually any company of substance . Raiding pension pots manipulating stocks and diverting costs with labour transfers not to say of teeming and lading . It’s just pure jealousy. For years we had Fergie time intimidating tactics. Banning journalists who dare mention the name Giggs . Between 1994 and 2000 Man Utd had no penalty given against them at Old Trafford . The first time one was 7 players surrounded the referee for minutes . City and Pep just don’t go down that route just as Cloughie didn’t years ago . Man Utd were bought with DEBT which is a far bigger issue . Chelsea have given 8 year contracts to get round the absurd rules in place . So you are okay with a foreign govt coming in and telling the UK that if anything happens to Man City, there will be issues with oil supply? That does sound very similar to “Fergie time”, I’ll give you that. Oil prices have increased since he retired after all.
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Post by Gods on Jun 6, 2024 16:51:31 GMT
Malcom Clarke on Sky News this morning talking about this. Did it come over OK, Godfrey ? It was a pre-record yesterday outside the Etihad and of course you never know which few seconds they will actually use. I also did one for the BBC ( in my garden). This is Dan Roan's tweet of part of it. But at least I gave some free advertising to Stoke City ( and Bet365 ! ) x.com/danroan/status/1798368839098659048?s=43Yeah, I think you got your message across Malcolm!
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 7, 2024 6:58:12 GMT
It’s as if the power of those at the top has suddenly happened. People need to give their heads a wobble . Man city have poured millions into other clubs . Who would buy Jack Grealish for £100m bar city for instance. Not to say the millions they’ve poured into their surrounding area creating jobs and community wealth . Stoke are not squeaky clean with staff on Bet365 books . Any accountant will tell you that creative accounting exists in virtually any company of substance . Raiding pension pots manipulating stocks and diverting costs with labour transfers not to say of teeming and lading . It’s just pure jealousy. For years we had Fergie time intimidating tactics. Banning journalists who dare mention the name Giggs . Between 1994 and 2000 Man Utd had no penalty given against them at Old Trafford . The first time one was 7 players surrounded the referee for minutes . City and Pep just don’t go down that route just as Cloughie didn’t years ago . Man Utd were bought with DEBT which is a far bigger issue . Chelsea have given 8 year contracts to get round the absurd rules in place . That's a completely rubbish argument - everybody cheats so may as well just let it happen. How does that improve things? Also this has never happened on this scale. Man City are owned by oil rich nation states buying titles in order to sports wash their dodgy regime. And they are blackmailing the UK government to ditch any rules that would prevent them from buying titles in perpetuity. It makes a joke of Premier Leavue as a sporting competition and hands over a big chunk of our cultural life to a dodgy regime over which we have no democratic control. This goes way beyond football- if Man City win their case we are little more than a vassal state.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 7, 2024 7:03:42 GMT
It’s as if the power of those at the top has suddenly happened. People need to give their heads a wobble . Man city have poured millions into other clubs . Who would buy Jack Grealish for £100m bar city for instance. Not to say the millions they’ve poured into their surrounding area creating jobs and community wealth . Stoke are not squeaky clean with staff on Bet365 books . Any accountant will tell you that creative accounting exists in virtually any company of substance . Raiding pension pots manipulating stocks and diverting costs with labour transfers not to say of teeming and lading . It’s just pure jealousy. For years we had Fergie time intimidating tactics. Banning journalists who dare mention the name Giggs . Between 1994 and 2000 Man Utd had no penalty given against them at Old Trafford . The first time one was 7 players surrounded the referee for minutes . City and Pep just don’t go down that route just as Cloughie didn’t years ago . Man Utd were bought with DEBT which is a far bigger issue . Chelsea have given 8 year contracts to get round the absurd rules in place . That's a completely rubbish argument - everybody cheats so may as well just let it happen. How does that improve things? Also this has never happened on this scale. Man City are owned by oil rich nation states buying titles in order to sports wash their dodgy regime. And they are blackmailing the UK government to ditch any rules that would prevent them from buying titles in perpetuity. It makes a joke of Premier Leavue as a sporting competition and hands over a big chunk of our cultural life to a dodgy regime over which we have no democratic control. This goes way beyond football- if Man City win their case we are little more than a vassal state. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 7, 2024 8:11:59 GMT
If Man City win,how long before a club decides to take the FA to court?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 7, 2024 8:14:34 GMT
It’s as if the power of those at the top has suddenly happened. People need to give their heads a wobble . Man city have poured millions into other clubs . Who would buy Jack Grealish for £100m bar city for instance. Not to say the millions they’ve poured into their surrounding area creating jobs and community wealth . Stoke are not squeaky clean with staff on Bet365 books . Any accountant will tell you that creative accounting exists in virtually any company of substance . Raiding pension pots manipulating stocks and diverting costs with labour transfers not to say of teeming and lading . It’s just pure jealousy. For years we had Fergie time intimidating tactics. Banning journalists who dare mention the name Giggs . Between 1994 and 2000 Man Utd had no penalty given against them at Old Trafford . The first time one was 7 players surrounded the referee for minutes . City and Pep just don’t go down that route just as Cloughie didn’t years ago . Man Utd were bought with DEBT which is a far bigger issue . Chelsea have given 8 year contracts to get round the absurd rules in place . That's a completely rubbish argument - everybody cheats so may as well just let it happen. How does that improve things? Also this has never happened on this scale. Man City are owned by oil rich nation states buying titles in order to sports wash their dodgy regime. And they are blackmailing the UK government to ditch any rules that would prevent them from buying titles in perpetuity. It makes a joke of Premier Leavue as a sporting competition and hands over a big chunk of our cultural life to a dodgy regime over which we have no democratic control. This goes way beyond football- if Man City win their case we are little more than a vassal state. I think you're correct..
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