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Post by cvillestokie on May 2, 2024 9:25:04 GMT
Galloway has got the Muslim vote and has to cling on to it. What is the “Muslim vote”? Do they all think the same and this vote on all the same issues?
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Post by lordb on May 2, 2024 11:25:41 GMT
Galloway has got the Muslim vote and has to cling on to it. What is the “Muslim vote”? Do they all think the same and this vote on all the same issues? I think it's fair to say that in his constituency the Muslim population will be predominantly of Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi heritage with a smattering of Iraqis, Afghans and some others and vast majority will be very pro Palestine and very anti Israel Atm that conflict will be higher up in consideration than at other times Other than that though yes they will have a range of views on all the other issues just like everyone else does, there is no block Muslim vote as such.
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Post by wannabee on May 2, 2024 12:13:00 GMT
Galloway has got the Muslim vote and has to cling on to it. What is the “Muslim vote”? Do they all think the same and this vote on all the same issues? Islam, Christianity and Judaism Religions all condemn Homosexuality to a greater or lesser degree although there is little or no reference in the Koran, Bible or Torah other than a common reference to Sodom which no one can say exactly where it was or if it even existed and may have been somewhere in Modern Jordan Depending on how closely an individual Votes in reference to their Religion will determine how important Galloway's words are. There is no question in my mind that Galloway chose his words deliberately, as Prestwick has said, in your view they are unimportant on his base.
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Post by gawa on May 2, 2024 15:51:19 GMT
Homosexuals are abnormal. Fucking hell…… I think his language is being taken out of context and misinterpreted here. Galloway has never voted against LGBT rights, he's only ever voted for them or abstained. In the 90s he voted to bring age of consent in line with heterosexual, in the early 00s he voted against the prohibition of promotion homesexual bullying material, in 2002 he voted to allow gay couples to adopt, in 2013 he voted for gay marriage. Alot of the above have both still currently serving Labour and Conservative MPs who have voted against it. When he says not normal, I interpret that as non default, non standard, not the typical. Which it isn't. (and i've listened to the whole clip). The text which goes along the clip implies that not normal has been used in an "abonrmal" (as you've said yourself) or "not right" way - it wasn't. And his voting record backs that up. What I do appreciate is his honesty in answering the question too and saying what he believes. Unlike many Lab/Tory MPs who recite their scripted lines from party HQ and aren't honest. Which in the end was one of the contributing reasons to leaving Labour as he wasn't willing to be told what to do and say by HQ and instead representing the people with his own views - as any politician should be in my opinion. Of course certain media outlets are going to weaponise this and try to mix his words so they can attack him as a homophobic. Would I man who thinks gay marriage and gay adoption is abnormal vote for it? I don't think so. And saying it's not your standard relationship isn't homophobic at all because it isn't. If it was the standard then we'd have an apocalypse soon.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 2, 2024 15:57:25 GMT
Homosexuals are abnormal. Fucking hell…… I think his language is being taken out of context and misinterpreted here. Galloway has never voted against LGBT rights, he's only ever voted for them or abstained. In the 90s he voted to bring age of consent in line with heterosexual, in the early 00s he voted against the prohibition of promotion homesexual bullying material, in 2002 he voted to allow gay couples to adopt, in 2013 he voted for gay marriage. Alot of the above have both still currently serving Labour and Conservative MPs who have voted against it. When he says not normal, I interpret that as non default, non standard, not the typical. Which it isn't. (and i've listened to the whole clip). The text which goes along the clip implies that not normal has been used in an "abonrmal" (as you've said yourself) or "not right" way - it wasn't. And his voting record backs that up. What I do appreciate is his honesty in answering the question too and saying what he believes. Unlike many Lab/Tory MPs who recite their scripted lines from party HQ and aren't honest. Which in the end was one of the contributing reasons to leaving Labour as he wasn't willing to be told what to do and say by HQ and instead representing the people with his own views - as any politician should be in my opinion. Of course certain media outlets are going to weaponise this and try to mix his words so they can attack him as a homophobic. Would I man who thinks gay marriage and gay adoption is abnormal vote for it? I don't think so. And saying it's not your standard relationship isn't homophobic at all because it isn't. If it was the standard then we'd have an apocalypse soon. As I said earlier Galloway is a great orator and a man who chooses his words very carefully. If he meant "not typical" he should have said that, it's very different to "not normal" I have no issue with Galloway being a sitting MP, I'm all for shaking up the status quo and he was democratically elected by his constituents. But on certain issues (trans issues for example) he's way off the mark in my opinion.......
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Post by gawa on May 2, 2024 16:48:56 GMT
I think his language is being taken out of context and misinterpreted here. Galloway has never voted against LGBT rights, he's only ever voted for them or abstained. In the 90s he voted to bring age of consent in line with heterosexual, in the early 00s he voted against the prohibition of promotion homesexual bullying material, in 2002 he voted to allow gay couples to adopt, in 2013 he voted for gay marriage. Alot of the above have both still currently serving Labour and Conservative MPs who have voted against it. When he says not normal, I interpret that as non default, non standard, not the typical. Which it isn't. (and i've listened to the whole clip). The text which goes along the clip implies that not normal has been used in an "abonrmal" (as you've said yourself) or "not right" way - it wasn't. And his voting record backs that up. What I do appreciate is his honesty in answering the question too and saying what he believes. Unlike many Lab/Tory MPs who recite their scripted lines from party HQ and aren't honest. Which in the end was one of the contributing reasons to leaving Labour as he wasn't willing to be told what to do and say by HQ and instead representing the people with his own views - as any politician should be in my opinion. Of course certain media outlets are going to weaponise this and try to mix his words so they can attack him as a homophobic. Would I man who thinks gay marriage and gay adoption is abnormal vote for it? I don't think so. And saying it's not your standard relationship isn't homophobic at all because it isn't. If it was the standard then we'd have an apocalypse soon. As I said earlier Galloway is a great orator and a man who chooses his words very carefully. If he meant "not typical" he should have said that, it's very different to "not normal" I have no issue with Galloway being a sitting MP, I'm all for shaking up the status quo and he was democratically elected by his constituents. But on certain issues (trans issues for example) he's way off the mark in my opinion....... "They should be treated with respect and affection". I respect the man for giving an open honest opinion rather than saying what people want to hear. He thinks gay people should be treated with respect and has voted for them to have more equality but he doesn't think its a normal type of relationship. I don't think polyamory is a normal type of relationship but that doesn't mean I discriminate or think less of those people. Funny how Muslims live rent free in some peoples heads though. I presume George vehemently denying he's Islamic on GMB and thst he's a proud roman Catholic is for the Muslim vote too. 😅
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Post by wannabee on May 2, 2024 17:38:21 GMT
Homosexuals are abnormal. Fucking hell…… I think his language is being taken out of context and misinterpreted here. Galloway has never voted against LGBT rights, he's only ever voted for them or abstained. In the 90s he voted to bring age of consent in line with heterosexual, in the early 00s he voted against the prohibition of promotion homesexual bullying material, in 2002 he voted to allow gay couples to adopt, in 2013 he voted for gay marriage. Alot of the above have both still currently serving Labour and Conservative MPs who have voted against it. When he says not normal, I interpret that as non default, non standard, not the typical. Which it isn't. (and i've listened to the whole clip). The text which goes along the clip implies that not normal has been used in an "abonrmal" (as you've said yourself) or "not right" way - it wasn't. And his voting record backs that up. What I do appreciate is his honesty in answering the question too and saying what he believes. Unlike many Lab/Tory MPs who recite their scripted lines from party HQ and aren't honest. Which in the end was one of the contributing reasons to leaving Labour as he wasn't willing to be told what to do and say by HQ and instead representing the people with his own views - as any politician should be in my opinion. Of course certain media outlets are going to weaponise this and try to mix his words so they can attack him as a homophobic. Would I man who thinks gay marriage and gay adoption is abnormal vote for it? I don't think so. And saying it's not your standard relationship isn't homophobic at all because it isn't. If it was the standard then we'd have an apocalypse soon. Here is George on the Election Stump making a speech that is complete Bollocks /mediaViewer?currentTweet=1408432170666975234¤tTweetUser=WorkersPartyGB He also told Spiked that the issue had not come up on the doorstep. And yet the next day, during a “Freedom of Speech” event, he explained he didn’t want primary school children taught “that there’s 99 genders, that men can become women.” In the same speech, Galloway said he did not want children taught “how to masturbate” or “about anal sex” and “parents chest-feeding their children.” The claim that children are being taught about masturbation and anal sex at primary age is a classic religious-right trope shared by organisations linked to alt-right conspiracy theories such as Parent Power, Christian Concern and Voice for Justice UK, as well as anti-LGBTIQ Muslim activists such as Amir Ahmed, and Afsar himself. These are groups and individuals who actively campaign against what they call “LGBT dogma” and “trans indoctrination” in schools by spreading the same disinformation and conspiracist ideas that Galloway shared on Friday. bylinetimes.com/2021/06/28/homophobic-and-transphobic-dog-whistles-in-batley-echo-the-religious-rights-anti-lgbtiq-agenda/
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Post by gawa on May 2, 2024 19:34:06 GMT
I think his language is being taken out of context and misinterpreted here. Galloway has never voted against LGBT rights, he's only ever voted for them or abstained. In the 90s he voted to bring age of consent in line with heterosexual, in the early 00s he voted against the prohibition of promotion homesexual bullying material, in 2002 he voted to allow gay couples to adopt, in 2013 he voted for gay marriage. Alot of the above have both still currently serving Labour and Conservative MPs who have voted against it. When he says not normal, I interpret that as non default, non standard, not the typical. Which it isn't. (and i've listened to the whole clip). The text which goes along the clip implies that not normal has been used in an "abonrmal" (as you've said yourself) or "not right" way - it wasn't. And his voting record backs that up. What I do appreciate is his honesty in answering the question too and saying what he believes. Unlike many Lab/Tory MPs who recite their scripted lines from party HQ and aren't honest. Which in the end was one of the contributing reasons to leaving Labour as he wasn't willing to be told what to do and say by HQ and instead representing the people with his own views - as any politician should be in my opinion. Of course certain media outlets are going to weaponise this and try to mix his words so they can attack him as a homophobic. Would I man who thinks gay marriage and gay adoption is abnormal vote for it? I don't think so. And saying it's not your standard relationship isn't homophobic at all because it isn't. If it was the standard then we'd have an apocalypse soon. Here is George on the Election Stump making a speech that is complete Bollocks /mediaViewer?currentTweet=1408432170666975234¤tTweetUser=WorkersPartyGB He also told Spiked that the issue had not come up on the doorstep. And yet the next day, during a “Freedom of Speech” event, he explained he didn’t want primary school children taught “that there’s 99 genders, that men can become women.” In the same speech, Galloway said he did not want children taught “how to masturbate” or “about anal sex” and “parents chest-feeding their children.” The claim that children are being taught about masturbation and anal sex at primary age is a classic religious-right trope shared by organisations linked to alt-right conspiracy theories such as Parent Power, Christian Concern and Voice for Justice UK, as well as anti-LGBTIQ Muslim activists such as Amir Ahmed, and Afsar himself. These are groups and individuals who actively campaign against what they call “LGBT dogma” and “trans indoctrination” in schools by spreading the same disinformation and conspiracist ideas that Galloway shared on Friday. bylinetimes.com/2021/06/28/homophobic-and-transphobic-dog-whistles-in-batley-echo-the-religious-rights-anti-lgbtiq-agenda/I agree that it's a classic right wing tactic to claim children are being taught about anal sex etc.. at primary school age. Right or wrong though (I don't think it is but I don't have children), there are people out there who believe it and their voting intentions are influenced by that belief. Personally I don't think children at primary school should be taught about alot of the things you've listed. We wouldn't have age ratings for movies if we felt it was appropriate to teach children everything at any age. There are people on this forum who seem to think that left wing is all about LGBTQ and Climate change when it isn't. But because they're fed this that's what left wing is in their heads. 30 years ago transsexuals and climate change was barely even being discussed at a political level. Left wing is much much more than that and personally while I have no issue it all with LGBT or climate change and I'm generally supportive - neither are priorities for me compared to other policies. So for George to come out and say he doesn't agree with that stuff being taught to young children, and even if it isn't true, I don't see it as a big issue. Because if 78 year old Rita believes this stuff happens then I want her to know that it's not just the right wing who disagree with it. Telling Rita that Dan on GB News is lying to her probably won't get through to her in the same way.
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Post by gawa on May 2, 2024 19:54:55 GMT
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Post by wannabee on May 2, 2024 20:49:29 GMT
Here is George on the Election Stump making a speech that is complete Bollocks /mediaViewer?currentTweet=1408432170666975234¤tTweetUser=WorkersPartyGB He also told Spiked that the issue had not come up on the doorstep. And yet the next day, during a “Freedom of Speech” event, he explained he didn’t want primary school children taught “that there’s 99 genders, that men can become women.” In the same speech, Galloway said he did not want children taught “how to masturbate” or “about anal sex” and “parents chest-feeding their children.” The claim that children are being taught about masturbation and anal sex at primary age is a classic religious-right trope shared by organisations linked to alt-right conspiracy theories such as Parent Power, Christian Concern and Voice for Justice UK, as well as anti-LGBTIQ Muslim activists such as Amir Ahmed, and Afsar himself. These are groups and individuals who actively campaign against what they call “LGBT dogma” and “trans indoctrination” in schools by spreading the same disinformation and conspiracist ideas that Galloway shared on Friday. bylinetimes.com/2021/06/28/homophobic-and-transphobic-dog-whistles-in-batley-echo-the-religious-rights-anti-lgbtiq-agenda/I agree that it's a classic right wing tactic to claim children are being taught about anal sex etc.. at primary school age. Right or wrong though (I don't think it is but I don't have children), there are people out there who believe it and their voting intentions are influenced by that belief. Personally I don't think children at primary school should be taught about alot of the things you've listed. We wouldn't have age ratings for movies if we felt it was appropriate to teach children everything at any age. There are people on this forum who seem to think that left wing is all about LGBTQ and Climate change when it isn't. But because they're fed this that's what left wing is in their heads. 30 years ago transsexuals and climate change was barely even being discussed at a political level. Left wing is much much more than that and personally while I have no issue it all with LGBT or climate change and I'm generally supportive - neither are priorities for me compared to other policies. So for George to come out and say he doesn't agree with that stuff being taught to young children, and even if it isn't true, I don't see it as a big issue. Because if 78 year old Rita believes this stuff happens then I want her to know that it's not just the right wing who disagree with it. Telling Rita that Dan on GB News is lying to her probably won't get through to her in the same way. This was George Electioneering when he unsuccessfully contested the 2021 Batley & Spen By-election George is an intelligent man and he knows quite well what he is saying is untrue .... it seemed to go down well with the audience mind. What was he going to do if elected campaign to change a curriculum that doesn't exist. I agree with some of what George says and there is no problem in having personal convictions, but he is no different to most Politicians, he will say any old nonsense to get a vote, but to be fair he says it with more eloquence than most.
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Post by gawa on May 2, 2024 21:17:49 GMT
I agree that it's a classic right wing tactic to claim children are being taught about anal sex etc.. at primary school age. Right or wrong though (I don't think it is but I don't have children), there are people out there who believe it and their voting intentions are influenced by that belief. Personally I don't think children at primary school should be taught about alot of the things you've listed. We wouldn't have age ratings for movies if we felt it was appropriate to teach children everything at any age. There are people on this forum who seem to think that left wing is all about LGBTQ and Climate change when it isn't. But because they're fed this that's what left wing is in their heads. 30 years ago transsexuals and climate change was barely even being discussed at a political level. Left wing is much much more than that and personally while I have no issue it all with LGBT or climate change and I'm generally supportive - neither are priorities for me compared to other policies. So for George to come out and say he doesn't agree with that stuff being taught to young children, and even if it isn't true, I don't see it as a big issue. Because if 78 year old Rita believes this stuff happens then I want her to know that it's not just the right wing who disagree with it. Telling Rita that Dan on GB News is lying to her probably won't get through to her in the same way. This was George Electioneering when he unsuccessfully contested the 2021 Batley & Spen By-election George is an intelligent man and he knows quite well what he is saying is untrue .... it seemed to go down well with the audience mind. What was he going to do if elected campaign to change a curriculum that doesn't exist. I agree with some of what George says and there is no problem in having personal convictions, but he is no different to most Politicians, he will say any old nonsense to get a vote, but to be fair he says it with more eloquence than most. But again whether that occurs or not, some people think it do, so to say you're opposed to it I don't see as a bad thing. I don't think he was lying in saying he would oppose that. To win as a candidate outside of Labour/Con/LD in England is an extremely challenging feat. Add in the money these parties have, famous influencers, the media on their side and the witch hunt they'll use on candidates they don't like. You need to electioneer and play to your target audience to stand any chance. The electoral system isn't built to allow independants to win.
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Post by wannabee on May 2, 2024 21:32:43 GMT
This was George Electioneering when he unsuccessfully contested the 2021 Batley & Spen By-election George is an intelligent man and he knows quite well what he is saying is untrue .... it seemed to go down well with the audience mind. What was he going to do if elected campaign to change a curriculum that doesn't exist. I agree with some of what George says and there is no problem in having personal convictions, but he is no different to most Politicians, he will say any old nonsense to get a vote, but to be fair he says it with more eloquence than most. But again whether that occurs or not, some people think it do, so to say you're opposed to it I don't see as a bad thing. I don't think he was lying in saying he would oppose that. To win as a candidate outside of Labour/Con/LD in England is an extremely challenging feat. Add in the money these parties have, famous influencers, the media on their side and the witch hunt they'll use on candidates they don't like. You need to electioneer and play to your target audience to stand any chance. The electoral system isn't built to allow independants to win. I'm not quite sure where you are going with this, you've been told at least twice its nonsense yet you continue to cast doubts. It's easy enough to verify. Surely it's the duty of anyone to correct misconceptions never mind a Politician feeding it With respect you seem to have gone completely off the reservation by suggesting that it's fair game for Minor Party Candidates to tell porkies to level up the playing field with the Major Party's. Very strange.
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Post by gawa on May 2, 2024 21:49:29 GMT
But again whether that occurs or not, some people think it do, so to say you're opposed to it I don't see as a bad thing. I don't think he was lying in saying he would oppose that. To win as a candidate outside of Labour/Con/LD in England is an extremely challenging feat. Add in the money these parties have, famous influencers, the media on their side and the witch hunt they'll use on candidates they don't like. You need to electioneer and play to your target audience to stand any chance. The electoral system isn't built to allow independants to win. I'm not quite sure where you are going with this, you've been told at least twice its nonsense yet you continue to cast doubts. It's easy enough to verify. Surely it's the duty of anyone to correct misconceptions never mind a Politician feeding it With respect you seem to have gone completely off the reservation by suggesting that it's fair game for Minor Party Candidates to tell porkies to level up the playing field with the Major Party's. Very strange. I don't think you're grasping it to be honest. It doesn't matter if its true or not when it's already out in the open and our newspapers and news channels are spreading the message. You saying its false doesn't convince all those people or change their minds over credible (in some eyes) news sources or political commentators (in some eyes). Has Donald Trumps loyal fan base dropped in numbers due to people debunking his claims? So if they're going to say those on the left, like George, support teaching primary school kids about masterbation and anal. And if they're not going to listen when you say this doesn't happen. Then the logical thing to do is to denounce it and say how opposed you are to that stuff. Not denouncing it and simply saying its not true can make people double down on such things and go even deeper saying they're covering up for it because the Liberal elite are all taking part in it. I know it sounds fucking daft. But this is the world we now live in. Sometimes you need fo adjust your approach depending on the audience you're directing your message to.
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Post by wannabee on May 2, 2024 22:05:36 GMT
I'm not quite sure where you are going with this, you've been told at least twice its nonsense yet you continue to cast doubts. It's easy enough to verify. Surely it's the duty of anyone to correct misconceptions never mind a Politician feeding it With respect you seem to have gone completely off the reservation by suggesting that it's fair game for Minor Party Candidates to tell porkies to level up the playing field with the Major Party's. Very strange. I don't think you're grasping it to be honest. I'm quite certain your not.
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Post by cvillestokie on May 3, 2024 1:08:02 GMT
As I said earlier Galloway is a great orator and a man who chooses his words very carefully. If he meant "not typical" he should have said that, it's very different to "not normal" I have no issue with Galloway being a sitting MP, I'm all for shaking up the status quo and he was democratically elected by his constituents. But on certain issues (trans issues for example) he's way off the mark in my opinion....... "They should be treated with respect and affection". I respect the man for giving an open honest opinion rather than saying what people want to hear. He thinks gay people should be treated with respect and has voted for them to have more equality but he doesn't think its a normal type of relationship. I don't think polyamory is a normal type of relationship but that doesn't mean I discriminate or think less of those people. Funny how Muslims live rent free in some peoples heads though. I presume George vehemently denying he's Islamic on GMB and thst he's a proud roman Catholic is for the Muslim vote too. 😅 “I respect the man for giving an open honest opinion rather than saying what people want to hear.” But further down on this thread, aren’t you defending him for lying because telling the truth doesn’t work? 😉
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Post by wannabee on May 3, 2024 1:48:45 GMT
"They should be treated with respect and affection". I respect the man for giving an open honest opinion rather than saying what people want to hear. He thinks gay people should be treated with respect and has voted for them to have more equality but he doesn't think its a normal type of relationship. I don't think polyamory is a normal type of relationship but that doesn't mean I discriminate or think less of those people. Funny how Muslims live rent free in some peoples heads though. I presume George vehemently denying he's Islamic on GMB and thst he's a proud roman Catholic is for the Muslim vote too. 😅 “I respect the man for giving an open honest opinion rather than saying what people want to hear.” But further down on this thread, aren’t you defending him for lying because telling the truth doesn’t work? 😉 As I said. Quite weird.
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Post by gawa on May 3, 2024 11:36:13 GMT
"They should be treated with respect and affection". I respect the man for giving an open honest opinion rather than saying what people want to hear. He thinks gay people should be treated with respect and has voted for them to have more equality but he doesn't think its a normal type of relationship. I don't think polyamory is a normal type of relationship but that doesn't mean I discriminate or think less of those people. Funny how Muslims live rent free in some peoples heads though. I presume George vehemently denying he's Islamic on GMB and thst he's a proud roman Catholic is for the Muslim vote too. 😅 “I respect the man for giving an open honest opinion rather than saying what people want to hear.” But further down on this thread, aren’t you defending him for lying because telling the truth doesn’t work? 😉 He's not lying though? He's saying that he doesn't support children being taught that in school. The potential "lie" is whether or not that stuff is taught in schools. But whether it's taught or not, saying you oppose it being taught I don't see as a lie. There are alot of working class people who think that left wing is - 100 genders, sharia law introduced, kids taught about sex in primary school, green investment is a top priority, that we want wide open borders to anyone etc... It doesn't matter how many times you pull out evidence which maybe disprove some of these claims. If Donald Trump says that's what left wing is then they believe it. So sometimes you need to change your approach. If saying "Kids don't get taught about that" doesn't get through after 5 years of saying it then you need to address those concerns from those people. And you need to let them know "I'm left wing and I don't support this stuff. This isn't what left wing politics is about for our party". And maybe that will get through. It's a near impossible feat to get elected as a MP outside the three major parties in England. Nigel Farage with alot of supporters in the media has failed multiple times. George has to play the game the same way other parties do. But I don't think he's lying when he shares his personal beliefs. He's addressing those who think that's what left wingers support and saying that as a left winger he doesn't. Understandably people may perceive things differently. But I am a Galloway shill so I have to recognise my own bias here too.
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Post by desman2 on May 3, 2024 13:51:05 GMT
I tend to cast my vote based on previous form. Not by rosette colour or an underlying dislike of someone. I was a member of the labour party for quite a few years back in the 80s and early 90s but when it decided to turn into a watered down version of the tory party I left. During the same periods from say 2000 onwards the tory party became a watered down version of the labour party and we now have the situation where they both claim to be different from each other but they are both going in the same direction. Sadly ( for us ) politics has turned into a career choice rather than a sense of duty to your local community or country. A large number of MPs are voted in on the highest number of individual votes which is a world away from the larger number of people who didn't vote for them at all. That's where the system breaks down. The only people who can actually change anything are us. We can blame parties all we like, but unless us useful idiots elect them then they can't do anything. Sadly their are still too many people nationwide who haven't figured that out.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2024 23:36:20 GMT
Panesar joined his party then quit it a week later when he was presumably clued up on what a vile racist, homophobic piece of shit Galloway is.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 9, 2024 7:11:29 GMT
I tend to cast my vote based on previous form. Not by rosette colour or an underlying dislike of someone. I was a member of the labour party for quite a few years back in the 80s and early 90s but when it decided to turn into a watered down version of the tory party I left. During the same periods from say 2000 onwards the tory party became a watered down version of the labour party and we now have the situation where they both claim to be different from each other but they are both going in the same direction. Sadly ( for us ) politics has turned into a career choice rather than a sense of duty to your local community or country. A large number of MPs are voted in on the highest number of individual votes which is a world away from the larger number of people who didn't vote for them at all. That's where the system breaks down. The only people who can actually change anything are us. We can blame parties all we like, but unless us useful idiots elect them then they can't do anything. Sadly their are still too many people nationwide who haven't figured that out. Quite agree the current political system is designed to benefit of the two main parties and not the people and that isn't going to change while people just go along with it.
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