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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 8, 2024 0:04:53 GMT
What's a lib dem if not Leftist then (excuse my ignorance)? I know he sucks Ed Davey off. Must have a load of stamps to use up before the Post Office goes under. . Lib Dems are centrists. With the exception of Charles Kennedy who was to the left of Blair’s Labour at the time….. Currently the Lib Dems are right of centre. As a reaction to what was seen as a left ward shift a group of Lib Dems (including Clegg and Davey) put together a more right wing definition of liberalism more committed to the free market in what became known as the Orange Book. The current Lib Dems election strategy is all about picking up the disillusioned centrist Tory vote in the shires. With Labours shift to the right to win back the socially conservative working class vote the nearest thing to a soft left/radical party is probably the Greens. In terms of economic policy the most traditionally left wing party (ie one with a commitment to state ownership) is probably Reform UK. After that your into SWP/George Galloway territory.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 7:12:27 GMT
Galloway (the subject of this thread) wouldn’t debate an Israeli which is how it came up. And you (in your ignorance of the sublect) presumed it was because he was being racist and it's been explained to you ad infinitum by numerous people on here and Galloway himself, that it was because of what the student believed - which is indeed how apartheid came up. Would you debate with a pedophile about the rights and wrong of pedophilia? I would sincerely hope you wouldn't and for a lot of people, apartheid and everything that accompanies it, is as bad as pedophilia. Galloway explained to you that he was working with JEWISH members of the ANC to end apartheid, how could he then be racist against Jews? You really want to go again!
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 7:28:48 GMT
Galloway (the subject of this thread) wouldn’t debate an Israeli which is how it came up. Like Paul said in an earlier Post I thought your initial intransigence was due to ignorance When you were then presented with irrefutable evidence of the Israel’s State Apartheid and Racist Laws and Policies you pivoted to a position that not every Israeli follows Apartheid or is a Racist, of course you were the only one that introduced this concept and while people agree as it impossible to prove one way or the other, it's a classic Straw Man Argument. You also introduced Galloway not debating an Israeli as proof of Galloway's Anti-semitism When it was explained to you the reason and consistency of Galloway's position you withdrew Anti-semitism and settled for Racist Your latest posts are aimed trivialise the discourse If you wish to defend any actions by Israel Government no matter how egregious that's not a unique position and there are millions of people that hold the same position, but it would be more honest to do that upfront rather than Gaslighting and going down Rabbit Holes. Please point out where I am defending the actions by the Israeli government. Full quotes please. Good luck with that. Just because I scrutinise what someone is saying it does not mean I do not agree. Aparteid in Israel is evidenced in many ways. Speaking hebrew is not one (for example we have a national language enshrined in law for centuries). That does not mean I am defending Israeli apartheid, but I am defending their right to maintain their national language like every other nation. I did shift from anti semitism to racism with Galloway because of the evidence presented. Unlike others, my position can move when shown evidence and it rightly did. I still think Galloway’s position of not debating the other side and not being willing to see his own side’s problems (Hamas), means he is part of the problem. Had Yasser Arafat had Galloway’s point of view, he wouldn’t have achieved all he did in the late 80s and early 90s with Rabin.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 8, 2024 9:27:55 GMT
Like Paul said in an earlier Post I thought your initial intransigence was due to ignorance When you were then presented with irrefutable evidence of the Israel’s State Apartheid and Racist Laws and Policies you pivoted to a position that not every Israeli follows Apartheid or is a Racist, of course you were the only one that introduced this concept and while people agree as it impossible to prove one way or the other, it's a classic Straw Man Argument. You also introduced Galloway not debating an Israeli as proof of Galloway's Anti-semitism When it was explained to you the reason and consistency of Galloway's position you withdrew Anti-semitism and settled for Racist Your latest posts are aimed trivialise the discourse If you wish to defend any actions by Israel Government no matter how egregious that's not a unique position and there are millions of people that hold the same position, but it would be more honest to do that upfront rather than Gaslighting and going down Rabbit Holes. Please point out where I am defending the actions by the Israeli government. Full quotes please. Good luck with that. Just because I scrutinise what someone is saying it does not mean I do not agree. Aparteid in Israel is evidenced in many ways. Speaking hebrew is not one (for example we have a national language enshrined in law for centuries). That does not mean I am defending Israeli apartheid, but I am defending their right to maintain their national language like every other nation. I did shift from anti semitism to racism with Galloway because of the evidence presented. Unlike others, my position can move when shown evidence and it rightly did. I still think Galloway’s position of not debating the other side and not being willing to see his own side’s problems (Hamas), means he is part of the problem. Had Yasser Arafat had Galloway’s point of view, he wouldn’t have achieved all he did in the late 80s and early 90s with Rabin. Why not start with this post here, where you are defending Israel I presented to you 65 Laws in Israel that are discriminatory, you select one, Hebrew Language to make a point. Even if I agreed with you, which I don't, because you have to understand the intent, its like saying Hitler wasn't all bad because he liked Dogs. Your justification for Hebrew being the protected language may stand up to some debate as you say other Countries may have similar You may nit pick all you want but Where this all falls apart is that Israel is the ONLY Country in the World where in Law not all Citizens are Equal Dr. Amir Fuchs, Head of the Defending Democratic Values Program at Israel Democracy Institute said “ There is no country in the world, he said, that has not specifically enumerated the right of equality in its constitution; therefore, it is difficult to understand why the authors of this bill insist not to include this important value.The right to equality is embedded in the values mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, which has been the definitive document framing the character of the State of Israel for the past 70 years.” On Galloway yes you altered your position slightly Paul continued for a while to explain why his actions weren't Racist, I gave up. You final paragraph is quite preposterous, the only influence Galloway can have is to bring the suffering of the Palestinians to Public Consciousness The Oslo Accords were indeed a hope for a Two State Solution, I assume you've seen the YouTube clip of Netanyahu posted on here several times where he explains that he never accepted it and how he went about undermining it so it never came into existence
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 11:43:43 GMT
Please point out where I am defending the actions by the Israeli government. Full quotes please. Good luck with that. Just because I scrutinise what someone is saying it does not mean I do not agree. Aparteid in Israel is evidenced in many ways. Speaking hebrew is not one (for example we have a national language enshrined in law for centuries). That does not mean I am defending Israeli apartheid, but I am defending their right to maintain their national language like every other nation. I did shift from anti semitism to racism with Galloway because of the evidence presented. Unlike others, my position can move when shown evidence and it rightly did. I still think Galloway’s position of not debating the other side and not being willing to see his own side’s problems (Hamas), means he is part of the problem. Had Yasser Arafat had Galloway’s point of view, he wouldn’t have achieved all he did in the late 80s and early 90s with Rabin. Why not start with this post here, where you are defending Israel I presented to you 65 Laws in Israel that are discriminatory, you select one, Hebrew Language to make a point. Even if I agreed with you, which I don't, because you have to understand the intent, its like saying Hitler wasn't all bad because he liked Dogs. Your justification for Hebrew being the protected language may stand up to some debate as you say other Countries may have similar You may nit pick all you want but Where this all falls apart is that Israel is the ONLY Country in the World where in Law not all Citizens are Equal Dr. Amir Fuchs, Head of the Defending Democratic Values Program at Israel Democracy Institute said “ There is no country in the world, he said, that has not specifically enumerated the right of equality in its constitution; therefore, it is difficult to understand why the authors of this bill insist not to include this important value.The right to equality is embedded in the values mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, which has been the definitive document framing the character of the State of Israel for the past 70 years.” On Galloway yes you altered your position slightly Paul continued for a while to explain why his actions weren't Racist, I gave up. You final paragraph is quite preposterous, the only influence Galloway can have is to bring the suffering of the Palestinians to Public Consciousness The Oslo Accords were indeed a hope for a Two State Solution, I assume you've seen the YouTube clip of Netanyahu posted on here several times where he explains that he never accepted it and how he went about undermining it so it never came into existence Don’t lie. You presented 3 laws (in a subsequent post you referred to more). I didn’t think on the basis of the wording of those laws you could draw that many conclusions and the test is really how they are implemented and what they actually mean. They were vague, and one is shared with most nations. There is far better evidence to point to, which you have. I never questioned whether or not there was discrimination or apartheid or ethnic cleansing in Israel/Palestine. You brought it up. At no stage have I defended the Israeli government let alone bombastically! If all you can base that statement on is because I don’t think having a national language amounts to apartheid then you were really clutching at straws. Natanyahu’s actions show he couldn’t care less about the Oslo Accords.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 8, 2024 12:54:18 GMT
I never questioned whether or not there was discrimination or apartheid or ethnic cleansing in Israel/Palestine. Either you were ignorant to the fact, or you were indeed questioning the validity of the claim. You don't even realise that there are laws in Israel that specifically prohibit Arabs from certain places or doing certain things that Jewish people are allowed to do, do you? Weirdly enough, I don’t know every law in Israel. I do know that the laws quoted by Wannabee do not expressly prohibit Arabs from certain places or doing certain things. And actually, it wouldn't be weird at all to know that there were laws in Israel that have created apartheid, it would, however, be (when entering a debate like this) bloody weird NOT to know!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 8, 2024 13:04:05 GMT
And you (in your ignorance of the sublect) presumed it was because he was being racist and it's been explained to you ad infinitum by numerous people on here and Galloway himself, that it was because of what the student believed - which is indeed how apartheid came up. Would you debate with a pedophile about the rights and wrong of pedophilia? I would sincerely hope you wouldn't and for a lot of people, apartheid and everything that accompanies it, is as bad as pedophilia. Galloway explained to you that he was working with JEWISH members of the ANC to end apartheid, how could he then be racist against Jews? You really want to go again! I didn't realise, that you had decided that we had finished. Absolutely your prerogative to not reply to my post(s) if you've had enough but don't expect me not to reply to yours, if I feel that I want to.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 13:58:22 GMT
I never questioned whether or not there was discrimination or apartheid or ethnic cleansing in Israel/Palestine. Either you were ignorant to the fact, or you were indeed questioning the validity of the claim. Weirdly enough, I don’t know every law in Israel. I do know that the laws quoted by Wannabee do not expressly prohibit Arabs from certain places or doing certain things. And actually, it wouldn't be weird at all to know that there were laws in Israel that have created apartheid, it would, however, be (when entering a debate like this) bloody weird NOT to know! Why was I ignorant to it? Because of my consistent condemnation of Israel and their regime for those very actions on this thread and others? Or am I ignorant to it because I also hold Hamas also responsible for the situation in the Middle East? Am I ignorant because I have consistently said unless you engage with the otherside in this situation there will be no peace and my view that anyone who refuses to engage is part of the problem? Does that show my ignorance? Or is it because I disagree with your opinion that every single Israeli in the West Bank is pro apartheid? The three specific laws quoted by wannabee don’t evidence apartheid. If you are so keen to argue the point, go ahead. We have had a national language here since the 14th century. The other two laws are vague and without a great deal more information and context don’t by themselves show an apartheid. Disclaimer: For the avoidance of any conceivable doubt, this post is not in any way a defence of the Israeli government or their actions towards Palestinians and or Arabs in Israeli, Gaza, Palestine or elsewhere.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 14:01:52 GMT
You really want to go again! I didn't realise, that you had decided that we had finished. Absolutely your prerogative to not reply to my post(s) if you've had enough but don't expect me not to reply to yours, if I feel that I want to. By the way, if anyone wants to learn about paedophilia and how to protect against it, it is crucial to understand it and therefore speak to perpetrators about it and it is why criminal psychologists do that exact thing. Not everyone can read minds like you can.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 8, 2024 14:15:49 GMT
Either you were ignorant to the fact, or you were indeed questioning the validity of the claim. And actually, it wouldn't be weird at all to know that there were laws in Israel that have created apartheid, it would, however, be (when entering a debate like this) bloody weird NOT to know! Why was I ignorant to it? I didn't say you were, I SAID (amazing how many times people have to do this with you) that you were EITHER ignorant to it OR you were indeed questioning it, it's right there in your own words that you used to reply to my question. The rest of your post is just more obfuscation.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 8, 2024 14:19:05 GMT
I didn't realise, that you had decided that we had finished. Absolutely your prerogative to not reply to my post(s) if you've had enough but don't expect me not to reply to yours, if I feel that I want to. By the way, if anyone wants to learn about paedophilia and how to protect against it, it is crucial to understand it and therefore speak to perpetrators about it and it is why criminal psychologists do that exact thing. Not everyone can read minds like you can. Yeah that's why he have criminal psychologists to do those sort of things, rather than the likes of you and I, same reason the likes of George Galloway won't be sitting round a table trying to negotiate a peace deal in the Middle East. Sheesh ...
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 14:33:10 GMT
Why was I ignorant to it? I didn't say you were, I SAID (amazing how many times people have to do this with you) that you were EITHER ignorant to it OR you were indeed questioning it, it's right there in your own words that you used to reply to my question. The rest of your post is just more obfuscation. Except I wasn’t ignorant to the fact that there has been discrimination/ethnic cleansing/apartheid in Israel/Palestine (hence my constant and consistent condemnation of the Israeli government for these things) and I wasn’t questioning the fact (again, hence my constant and consistent condemnation of the Israeli government for these things). I was saying the three laws quoted as evidence of apartheid don’t evidence apartheid. And they obviously don’t. And I was saying not all Israelis are racist. We will go around in circles forever Paul.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 14:34:35 GMT
By the way, if anyone wants to learn about paedophilia and how to protect against it, it is crucial to understand it and therefore speak to perpetrators about it and it is why criminal psychologists do that exact thing. Not everyone can read minds like you can. Yeah that's why he have criminal psychologists to do those sort of things, rather than the likes of you and I, same reason the likes of George Galloway won't be sitting round a table trying to negotiate a peace deal in the Middle East. Sheesh ... Yes, and it is a good job not everyone has Galloway’s approach else we wouldn’t have those people so society can learn and ideally improve. I think Galloway would love to sitting around that table.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 8, 2024 15:10:38 GMT
Why not start with this post here, where you are defending Israel I presented to you 65 Laws in Israel that are discriminatory, you select one, Hebrew Language to make a point. Even if I agreed with you, which I don't, because you have to understand the intent, its like saying Hitler wasn't all bad because he liked Dogs. Your justification for Hebrew being the protected language may stand up to some debate as you say other Countries may have similar You may nit pick all you want but Where this all falls apart is that Israel is the ONLY Country in the World where in Law not all Citizens are Equal Dr. Amir Fuchs, Head of the Defending Democratic Values Program at Israel Democracy Institute said “ There is no country in the world, he said, that has not specifically enumerated the right of equality in its constitution; therefore, it is difficult to understand why the authors of this bill insist not to include this important value.The right to equality is embedded in the values mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, which has been the definitive document framing the character of the State of Israel for the past 70 years.” On Galloway yes you altered your position slightly Paul continued for a while to explain why his actions weren't Racist, I gave up. You final paragraph is quite preposterous, the only influence Galloway can have is to bring the suffering of the Palestinians to Public Consciousness The Oslo Accords were indeed a hope for a Two State Solution, I assume you've seen the YouTube clip of Netanyahu posted on here several times where he explains that he never accepted it and how he went about undermining it so it never came into existence Don’t lie. You presented 3 laws (in a subsequent post you referred to more). I didn’t think on the basis of the wording of those laws you could draw that many conclusions and the test is really how they are implemented and what they actually mean. They were vague, and one is shared with most nations. There is far better evidence to point to, which you have. I never questioned whether or not there was discrimination or apartheid or ethnic cleansing in Israel/Palestine. You brought it up. At no stage have I defended the Israeli government let alone bombastically! If all you can base that statement on is because I don’t think having a national language amounts to apartheid then you were really clutching at straws. Natanyahu’s actions show he couldn’t care less about the Oslo Accords. I don't lie, I posted what are known as the 3 Basic Laws to remove any doubt that Israel isnt an Apartheid and Racist State I wrongly assumed you knew what you were talking about in your defence of Israel When you said you didn't know about Israeli Laws I linked 62 Further Laws in Israel which are Discriminatory, Racist and designed to ensure an Apartheid State. You have latched onto the Superiority Status of Hebrew being included as a means of normalising by association 64 other Discriminatory Laws, completely ignoring that Israel is the only Country in the World that doesn't enshrine equality of its Citizens in its Laws. This was a point I quoted from the well known Academic in Democracy the Israeli/Jewish Dr Amir Fuchs Defending the indefensible may have been justified at an early stage due to your ignorance. Continued defence can only be that you are too obtuse to admit you were wrong or alternatively you come from a position where Israel’s actions can be justified in all circumstances irrespective of International Norms/Laws. As I said in a previous post if its the latter it's not a unique position to take as it is shared by a good portion of the 7M Jewish Israeli Citizens but by no means all. It is not shared by the 2M Arab Israeli Second Class Citizens. It is a view shared by the 500K Jewish Settlers in West Bank and 220K Jewish Settlers in East Jerusalem. Neither UN or ICJ share this view in fact they call it a War Crime. The 2.7M Palestinians remaining in West Bank or the 400K Palestinians in East Jerusalem don't share this view. Nor do the 2M Palestinians in Gaza but it is a view which is shared by many Zionists throughout the World What's your position?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 15:19:16 GMT
Don’t lie. You presented 3 laws (in a subsequent post you referred to more). I didn’t think on the basis of the wording of those laws you could draw that many conclusions and the test is really how they are implemented and what they actually mean. They were vague, and one is shared with most nations. There is far better evidence to point to, which you have. I never questioned whether or not there was discrimination or apartheid or ethnic cleansing in Israel/Palestine. You brought it up. At no stage have I defended the Israeli government let alone bombastically! If all you can base that statement on is because I don’t think having a national language amounts to apartheid then you were really clutching at straws. Natanyahu’s actions show he couldn’t care less about the Oslo Accords. I don't lie, I posted what are known as the 3 Basic Laws to remove any doubt that Israel isnt an Apartheid and Racist State I wrongly assumed you knew what you were talking about in your defence of Israel When you said you didn't know about Israeli Laws I linked 62 Further Laws in Israel which are Discriminatory, Racist and designed to ensure an Apartheid State. You have latched onto the Superiority Status of Hebrew being included as a means of normalising by association 64 other Discriminatory Laws, completely ignoring that Israel is the only Country in the World that doesn't enshrine equality of its Citizens in its Laws. This was a point I quoted from the well known Academic in Democracy the Israeli/Jewish Dr Amir Fuchs Defending the indefensible may have been justified at an early stage due to your ignorance. Continued defence can only be that you are too obtuse to admit you were wrong or alternatively you come from a position where Israel’s actions can be justified in all circumstances irrespective of International Norms/Laws. As I said in a previous post if its the latter it's not a unique position to take as it is shared by a good portion of the 7M Jewish Israeli Citizens but by no means all. It is not shared by the 2M Arab Israeli Second Class Citizens. It is a view shared by the 500K Jewish Settlers in West Bank and 220K Jewish Settlers in East Jerusalem. Neither UN or ICJ share this view in fact they call it a War Crime. The 2.7M Palestinians remaining in West Bank or the 400K Palestinians in East Jerusalem don't share this view. Nor do the 2M Palestinians in Gaza but it is a view which is shared by many Zionists throughout the World What's your position? My position is that having a national language does not mean there is an apartheid in that country. The UK is a good example. The other bits generally show there is an apartheid in Israel/Palestine. I suggest if you ever need to persuade someone of the apartheid in Israel you don’t mention the national language point. Oh and i am still waiting for you to quote all of my bombastic defences of the Israeli government! You will also need to quote where I have apparently defended the indefensible. Finally, you (and Paul) must be embarrassed for being completely out argued by someone as ignorant as you and Paul keep telling me I am!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 8, 2024 15:34:56 GMT
I don't lie, I posted what are known as the 3 Basic Laws to remove any doubt that Israel isnt an Apartheid and Racist State I wrongly assumed you knew what you were talking about in your defence of Israel When you said you didn't know about Israeli Laws I linked 62 Further Laws in Israel which are Discriminatory, Racist and designed to ensure an Apartheid State. You have latched onto the Superiority Status of Hebrew being included as a means of normalising by association 64 other Discriminatory Laws, completely ignoring that Israel is the only Country in the World that doesn't enshrine equality of its Citizens in its Laws. This was a point I quoted from the well known Academic in Democracy the Israeli/Jewish Dr Amir Fuchs Defending the indefensible may have been justified at an early stage due to your ignorance. Continued defence can only be that you are too obtuse to admit you were wrong or alternatively you come from a position where Israel’s actions can be justified in all circumstances irrespective of International Norms/Laws. As I said in a previous post if its the latter it's not a unique position to take as it is shared by a good portion of the 7M Jewish Israeli Citizens but by no means all. It is not shared by the 2M Arab Israeli Second Class Citizens. It is a view shared by the 500K Jewish Settlers in West Bank and 220K Jewish Settlers in East Jerusalem. Neither UN or ICJ share this view in fact they call it a War Crime. The 2.7M Palestinians remaining in West Bank or the 400K Palestinians in East Jerusalem don't share this view. Nor do the 2M Palestinians in Gaza but it is a view which is shared by many Zionists throughout the World What's your position? My position is that having a national language does not mean there is an apartheid in that country. The UK is a good example. The other bits generally show there is an apartheid in Israel/Palestine. I suggest if you ever need to persuade someone of the apartheid in Israel you don’t mention the national language point. Oh and i am still waiting for you to quote all of my bombastic defences of the Israeli government! You will also need to quote where I have apparently defended the indefensible. Finally, you (and Paul) must be embarrassed for being completely out argued by someone as ignorant as you and Paul keep telling me I am! Completely off topic Oggy but out of interest, what type of law do you practice? Please feel free to tell me to mind my own business, if you think that I'm intruding.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2024 16:06:27 GMT
My position is that having a national language does not mean there is an apartheid in that country. The UK is a good example. The other bits generally show there is an apartheid in Israel/Palestine. I suggest if you ever need to persuade someone of the apartheid in Israel you don’t mention the national language point. Oh and i am still waiting for you to quote all of my bombastic defences of the Israeli government! You will also need to quote where I have apparently defended the indefensible. Finally, you (and Paul) must be embarrassed for being completely out argued by someone as ignorant as you and Paul keep telling me I am! Completely off topic Oggy but out of interest, what type of law do you practice? Please feel free to tell me to mind my own business, if you think that I'm intruding. Certainly not Israeli law! I am a family lawyer and I particularly specialise in international/cross jurisdictional divorces or children disputes, and then disputes between unmarried couples over property or children. I also do lots of nuptial agreements. Before you say anything, my posting on the Oatcake is nothing to do with and nothing like the way I work as a professional. Obviously.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 8, 2024 16:26:14 GMT
Completely off topic Oggy but out of interest, what type of law do you practice? Please feel free to tell me to mind my own business, if you think that I'm intruding. Certainly not Israeli law! I am a family lawyer and I particularly specialise in international/cross jurisdictional divorces or children disputes, and then disputes between unmarried couples over property or children. I also do lots of nuptial agreements. Before you say anything, my posting on the Oatcake is nothing to do with and nothing like the way I work as a professional. Obviously. Interesting. Thanks for being so candid.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 8, 2024 17:42:13 GMT
Completely off topic Oggy but out of interest, what type of law do you practice? Please feel free to tell me to mind my own business, if you think that I'm intruding. Certainly not Israeli law! I am a family lawyer and I particularly specialise in international/cross jurisdictional divorces or children disputes, and then disputes between unmarried couples over property or children. I also do lots of nuptial agreements. Before you say anything, my posting on the Oatcake is nothing to do with and nothing like the way I work as a professional. Obviously. Paid to argue for a living. It's no surprise.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 8, 2024 17:57:17 GMT
I don't lie, I posted what are known as the 3 Basic Laws to remove any doubt that Israel isnt an Apartheid and Racist State I wrongly assumed you knew what you were talking about in your defence of Israel When you said you didn't know about Israeli Laws I linked 62 Further Laws in Israel which are Discriminatory, Racist and designed to ensure an Apartheid State. You have latched onto the Superiority Status of Hebrew being included as a means of normalising by association 64 other Discriminatory Laws, completely ignoring that Israel is the only Country in the World that doesn't enshrine equality of its Citizens in its Laws. This was a point I quoted from the well known Academic in Democracy the Israeli/Jewish Dr Amir Fuchs Defending the indefensible may have been justified at an early stage due to your ignorance. Continued defence can only be that you are too obtuse to admit you were wrong or alternatively you come from a position where Israel’s actions can be justified in all circumstances irrespective of International Norms/Laws. As I said in a previous post if its the latter it's not a unique position to take as it is shared by a good portion of the 7M Jewish Israeli Citizens but by no means all. It is not shared by the 2M Arab Israeli Second Class Citizens. It is a view shared by the 500K Jewish Settlers in West Bank and 220K Jewish Settlers in East Jerusalem. Neither UN or ICJ share this view in fact they call it a War Crime. The 2.7M Palestinians remaining in West Bank or the 400K Palestinians in East Jerusalem don't share this view. Nor do the 2M Palestinians in Gaza but it is a view which is shared by many Zionists throughout the World What's your position? My position is that having a national language does not mean there is an apartheid in that country. The UK is a good example. The other bits generally show there is an apartheid in Israel/Palestine. I suggest if you ever need to persuade someone of the apartheid in Israel you don’t mention the national language point. Oh and i am still waiting for you to quote all of my bombastic defences of the Israeli government! You will also need to quote where I have apparently defended the indefensible. Finally, you (and Paul) must be embarrassed for being completely out argued by someone as ignorant as you and Paul keep telling me I The Israeli internationally Honoured Human Rights Organisation B'Tselem would completely disagree with your assertion on Hewbrew Language, as I have said at least a couple of times it is the intent. I would respectfully suggest B'Tselem would have a better understanding of Israeli Law than you or I If you want to be informed you can read their explanation why it is a part of controlling Palestinians in all areas under Israeli Control The name B'Tselem was chosen by one of its founders in 1989 by Member of Knesset Yossi Sarid, is an allusion to Genesis 1:27: “And God created humankind in His image. In the image of God did He create them.” The name expresses the universal and Jewish moral edict to respect and uphold the human rights of all people. www.btselem.org/about_btselem
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 8, 2024 18:14:14 GMT
Certainly not Israeli law! I am a family lawyer and I particularly specialise in international/cross jurisdictional divorces or children disputes, and then disputes between unmarried couples over property or children. I also do lots of nuptial agreements. Before you say anything, my posting on the Oatcake is nothing to do with and nothing like the way I work as a professional. Obviously. Paid to argue for a living. It's no surprise. Hope The Last Leg isn’t on tonight while he’s in this mood👀
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Post by felonious on Mar 8, 2024 18:35:55 GMT
Paid to argue for a living. It's no surprise. Hope The Last Leg isn’t on tonight while he’s in this mood👀 Don't start that again he out argued the whole of the board on that one
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 8, 2024 18:36:36 GMT
Hope The Last Leg isn’t on tonight while he’s in this mood👀 Don't start that again he out argued the whole of the board on that one He out argued himself!
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 8, 2024 18:42:24 GMT
PS - I'm right.
Oggy - I'm righter.
Wannabee - I'm righest.
It's an example of infighting amongst the socialist brotherhood once they gain power. Solidarity goes out of the window and the purges start.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 8, 2024 18:49:34 GMT
Don't start that again he out argued the whole of the board on that one He out argued himself! He wasn't right though. You were.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 8, 2024 18:50:19 GMT
He wasn't right though. You were. Oh I know, I usually am😉 Does that put me on the same level as Paul Spencer?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 8, 2024 19:21:34 GMT
He wasn't right though. You were. Oh I know, I usually am😉 Does that put me on the same level as Paul Spencer? Don't go kidding yourself, you're not that right.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 8, 2024 19:24:48 GMT
Oh I know, I usually am😉 Does that put me on the same level as Paul Spencer? Don't go kidding yourself, you're not that right. Happy to be in the “half right crew”. Open goal for Clams there
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 8, 2024 20:59:24 GMT
PS - I'm right. Oggy - I'm righter. Wannabee - I'm righest. It's an example of infighting amongst the socialist brotherhood once they gain power. Solidarity goes out of the window and the purges start. You left out Everyone else - wrong
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Post by wannabee on Mar 9, 2024 0:28:26 GMT
PS - I'm right. Oggy - I'm righter. Wannabee - I'm righest. It's an example of infighting amongst the socialist brotherhood once they gain power. Solidarity goes out of the window and the purges start. I object to being characterised as being Right just because others are Wrong
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