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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 16, 2024 9:20:34 GMT
You see this is where confusion comes about.....roles and responsibilities...who does what in simple terms. Managers manage Directors direct Presidents preside Chief Executives execute ( ultimate Decision Maker) Managers do the day to day stuff Directors direct the different departments/groups and move forward cohesively as one group Presidents preside over different business groups within the framework of the company - a helicopter view if you will ( sorry for the corporate bollocks) CEO puts pen to paper. Our "left hand' doesnt know what the 'right hand' is doing sometimes....well it seems that way to me at least. But who leads? That is the issue at SCFC. JC I suppose? And his inexperience is part of the issue. And hence why lots of people think he needs to get someone in to assist him. But obviously its a difficult thing to do because it makes him look weak. And then there's confusion about who the main gaffer is. I guess we just have to hope JC is constantly learning on the job and eventually he'll put the good ship city back on course š I don't really know what the answer is. But maybe a really decent DoF could take a lot of the issues away for JC which could make his job much easier?
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 16, 2024 9:33:21 GMT
Absolutely. The god that is TP should be contacted to save our Club. Can you make a list on here of all the things that Stoke won under the charge of Pulis. I will be forever grateful that he saved us from relegation and also that under his charge we gained promotion into the Premiership but he was never a deity and his football was so boring and negative. I must admit (in addition to not winning anything); - I did enjoy Wembley - Travelling to see us in Europe (the only time since the 70ās) - Travelling extensively through Asia and lots of people knowing who Stoke Cit were + naming some of the players. - Being disliked by some and hated by others (Arsenal) - Knowing teams/some players disliked playing at the Brit because of the togetherness/intimidation Apart from that youāve got me. Me personally (and a lot of my mates) ā¦ā¦ā¦If only you could turn the clock back š
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Post by skip on Feb 16, 2024 9:47:12 GMT
JC doesn't need to sell up, just surround himself by better football people.
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Post by lordb on Feb 16, 2024 12:30:07 GMT
JC doesn't need to sell up, just surround himself by better football people. Simon King appears to have been an improvement but Ricky Martin doesn't
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Post by baconburger on Feb 16, 2024 13:05:11 GMT
JC doesn't need to sell up, just surround himself by better football people. Simon King appears to have been an improvement but Ricky Martin doesn't Why isnāt RM an improvement and who is he meant to be improving upon?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 16, 2024 13:16:19 GMT
Simon King appears to have been an improvement but Ricky Martin doesn't Why isnāt RM an improvement and who is he meant to be improving upon? The ex leek town goalie cartwright i guess? š
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Post by jokker on Feb 16, 2024 13:22:29 GMT
Simon King appears to have been an improvement but Ricky Martin doesn't Why isnāt RM an improvement and who is he meant to be improving upon? himself
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 16, 2024 13:25:41 GMT
JC doesn't need to sell up, just surround himself by better football people. Simon King appears to have been an improvement but Ricky Martin doesn't The improvements to-date behind the scenes (non football) far exceed anything under Moxey and Scholes. Credit where credit his due to Simon King, his team and the much maligned JC for employing him and giving him licence to do what he is doing.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 16, 2024 13:28:34 GMT
Simon King appears to have been an improvement but Ricky Martin doesn't Why isnāt RM an improvement and who is he meant to be improving upon? Quantity over Quality and possibly the last so called Technical Director Mark Cartwright (fraud)
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 16, 2024 14:50:47 GMT
Simon King appears to have been an improvement but Ricky Martin doesn't The improvements to-date behind the scenes (non football) far exceed anything under Moxey and Scholes. Credit where credit his due to Simon King, his team and the much maligned JC for employing him and giving him licence to do what he is doing. 100% spot in and being say it since he arrived king is doing a a great job
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Post by baconburger on Feb 16, 2024 15:15:25 GMT
Why isnāt RM an improvement and who is he meant to be improving upon? Quantity over Quality and possibly the last so called Technical Director Mark Cartwright (fraud) Quantity was necessary. Iām not sure they perform the same role at all MC was all scouting and contacts with agents TS tied up the deals. RM ties up the deals JDās role is more similar to MC though RM and SS have an input into player identification. RM seems better at getting deals over the line than TS. I know thatās feint praise but thatās the best I can muster for him.
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Post by skemstokie on Feb 16, 2024 15:17:27 GMT
I mean its getting to a point where they'll think what actually is the point. From their side they'll think we've chucked millions and millions at it. We've kept season ticket prices on frozen prices forever. We gave them 10 years in the prem. We pay away travel.....you get my drift. Yet the fans are never happy and give us dogs abuse. The fans obviously have a slighly different view of it. If I was in their position I'd definitely be thinking long and hard as to whether it was worth the grief. Wouldn't you? If they do i think it will be dark times ahead.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 16, 2024 15:21:03 GMT
Why isnāt RM an improvement and who is he meant to be improving upon? The ex leek town goalie cartwright i guess? š Iām not sure whose pedigree is more scratchy MC or RM but anyway I donāt think their roles are the same as explained in another post above. Someone with a proper football pedigree who isnāt a dour dinosaur would be nice but heāll do for now.
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Post by 36dd on Feb 16, 2024 15:42:29 GMT
On the fans forum with Michael o Neil, then Alex Neil John Coates stated he was involved directly in the football decisions on the pitch, which also added Ricky Martin to the fold.
Which Iām guessing was the restructure after Scholes left, as Peter never shared his views on the football decisions, it was Scholes/Pulis & Hughes/Scholes etc.
Everyone can see the new set up with Coates, Martin and Head Coach/Manager doesnāt work. But I suspect John wouldnāt admit he is wrong and take that back step, plus dismiss Martin & bring in a Director of Football?
Simon King is spot on with the off the field situation but on the field matters have turned into a farce.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 16, 2024 17:23:09 GMT
On the fans forum with Michael o Neil, then Alex Neil John Coates stated he was involved directly in the football decisions on the pitch, which also added Ricky Martin to the fold. Which Iām guessing was the restructure after Scholes left, as Peter never shared his views on the football decisions, it was Scholes/Pulis & Hughes/Scholes etc. Everyone can see the new set up with Coates, Martin and Head Coach/Manager doesnāt work. But I suspect John wouldnāt admit he is wrong and take that back step, plus dismiss Martin & bring in a Director of Football? Simon King is spot on with the off the field situation but on the field matters have turned into a farce. I donāt know how youāve reached those conclusion. JC has never so much as suggested he is involved in football decisions on the pitch. RM as a technical director is essentially a DoF theyāre the same thing by different names. Iām not adverse to a different DoF/sporting/technical director but still arenāt sure what RM has done to deserve to be sacked. Weāre only just over a year into this new structure/approach and have only a few weeks ago gone for a change of direction with a new head coach with a very different football philosophy to previous managers. Iād give them at least another year to try to turn things around.
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Post by 36dd on Feb 16, 2024 18:32:08 GMT
On the fans forum with Michael o Neil, then Alex Neil John Coates stated he was involved directly in the football decisions on the pitch, which also added Ricky Martin to the fold. Which Iām guessing was the restructure after Scholes left, as Peter never shared his views on the football decisions, it was Scholes/Pulis & Hughes/Scholes etc. Everyone can see the new set up with Coates, Martin and Head Coach/Manager doesnāt work. But I suspect John wouldnāt admit he is wrong and take that back step, plus dismiss Martin & bring in a Director of Football? Simon King is spot on with the off the field situation but on the field matters have turned into a farce. I donāt know how youāve reached those conclusion. JC has never so much as suggested he is involved in football decisions on the pitch. RM as a technical director is essentially a DoF theyāre the same thing by different names. Iām not adverse to a different DoF/sporting/technical director but still arenāt sure what RM has done to deserve to be sacked. Weāre only just over a year into this new structure/approach and have only a few weeks ago gone for a change of direction with a new head coach with a very different football philosophy to previous managers. Iād give them at least another year to try to turn things around. If you go back to the fans forum last year with Alex Neil, Ricky Martin & JC he clearly states heās part a football set up. With regards to transfers. As with Martin, the recent incomings and how the team is getting worse in the league is a good indicator.
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 16, 2024 18:39:22 GMT
I really hope they never will! Great to have a local family as owners and who are real supporters as well! I don't want Saudi or American owners who only see this as a spare time activity! I'll vote for the Coates family every time if possible! ![(thumbsup)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/q4Mqf5MqRwT9PY8UitYa.gif)
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Post by bloodtypered on Feb 16, 2024 18:44:06 GMT
I don't think there would be a buyer. 'Fading football club in a town time has forgotten with vast and burgeoning debt seeks benevolent owner' Not if they looked at the oatcake
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Post by sportsman on Feb 16, 2024 18:58:05 GMT
Can anyone even thinking theyād change the Coates family please piss off, give your head a wobble, and go get a life. Thank you
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Post by onepara on Feb 16, 2024 19:07:31 GMT
My opinion is that the only way that they would leave the Club is, a, when P.C. 'leaves this mortal coil', & b, if the pressure started to affect Johns health. It has already been reported that John didn't look his best at the get-together last week. I'm pretty sure that Denise would advise him to pack it in. Their health would come before anything else, as they are all getting on in age, & might decide to enjoy their wealth.
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Post by tuum on Feb 16, 2024 19:33:19 GMT
I donāt know how youāve reached those conclusion. JC has never so much as suggested he is involved in football decisions on the pitch. RM as a technical director is essentially a DoF theyāre the same thing by different names. Iām not adverse to a different DoF/sporting/technical director but still arenāt sure what RM has done to deserve to be sacked. Weāre only just over a year into this new structure/approach and have only a few weeks ago gone for a change of direction with a new head coach with a very different football philosophy to previous managers. Iād give them at least another year to try to turn things around. If you go back to the fans forum last year with Alex Neil, Ricky Martin & JC he clearly states heās part a football set up. With regards to transfers. As with Martin, the recent incomings and how the team is getting worse in the league is a good indicator. He may be part of a footballing set-up (not sure what that means) but there has been no evidence that the Coates' get involved in micro-management. They appoint the manager, support him and they let him get on with it. I know people on this MB want them to be more hands on and dictatorial but it is not for me. I can't be doing with Owners turning up in the dressing room, especially unannounced, and giving pep talks. As much as I like Wrexham's owners and their commitment, watching them (naively, I hope) impose themselves over the manager disappoints me. I am ok with JC. No need to change him or the family.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Feb 16, 2024 19:48:48 GMT
Are you a clairvoyant ?
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Post by spoton on Feb 16, 2024 20:06:40 GMT
Sorry if already talked about but,many fan's on here have cast doubts on who would buy Stoke,if someone is buying WestBrom why wouldn't someone be interested in buying us, I'd be interested to know what the difference is
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 16, 2024 22:20:57 GMT
On the fans forum with Michael o Neil, then Alex Neil John Coates stated he was involved directly in the football decisions on the pitch, which also added Ricky Martin to the fold. Which Iām guessing was the restructure after Scholes left, as Peter never shared his views on the football decisions, it was Scholes/Pulis & Hughes/Scholes etc. Everyone can see the new set up with Coates, Martin and Head Coach/Manager doesnāt work. But I suspect John wouldnāt admit he is wrong and take that back step, plus dismiss Martin & bring in a Director of Football? Simon King is spot on with the off the field situation but on the field matters have turned into a farce. I donāt know how youāve reached those conclusion. JC has never so much as suggested he is involved in football decisions on the pitch. RM as a technical director is essentially a DoF theyāre the same thing by different names. Iām not adverse to a different DoF/sporting/technical director but still arenāt sure what RM has done to deserve to be sacked. Weāre only just over a year into this new structure/approach and have only a few weeks ago gone for a change of direction with a new head coach with a very different football philosophy to previous managers. Iād give them at least another year to try to turn things around. I put down thoughts on a piece of paper which reflected our 24 man registered squad plus 4 non registered 21 year old players for the rest of the season. In all honesty the outcome based upon āfactā and āOpinionā is quite alarming. 10 players scheduled to leave in May/June. How many will put their necks on the line in the meantime to safeguard the future of SCFC(their current employers)? From the remaining players how many have (a reasonable balance) the quality, mentality and physicality to be integral to (1) a successful fight against relegation and (2) a promotion chasing squad, whichever league we are in? My personal opinion is about 4/5 Until someone can put forward a reasonable pragmatic alternative Iāll remain convinced that this seasons recruitment with several exceptions has been nothing more than extremely poor and as Technical Director RM is totally accountable.
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insect
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Post by insect on Feb 16, 2024 22:25:12 GMT
Sorry if already talked about but,many fan's on here have cast doubts on who would buy Stoke,if someone is buying WestBrom why wouldn't someone be interested in buying us, I'd be interested to know what the difference is Bigger Club
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 16, 2024 22:52:40 GMT
Sorry if already talked about but,many fan's on here have cast doubts on who would buy Stoke,if someone is buying WestBrom why wouldn't someone be interested in buying us, I'd be interested to know what the difference is Bigger Club Itās a lottery risk finding a new owner and ones with the money and commitment and capability to invest like ours literally priceless
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Post by 36dd on Feb 16, 2024 23:21:02 GMT
If you go back to the fans forum last year with Alex Neil, Ricky Martin & JC he clearly states heās part a football set up. With regards to transfers. As with Martin, the recent incomings and how the team is getting worse in the league is a good indicator. He may be part of a footballing set-up (not sure what that means) but there has been no evidence that the Coates' get involved in micro-management. They appoint the manager, support him and they let him get on with it. I know people on this MB want them to be more hands on and dictatorial but it is not for me. I can't be doing with Owners turning up in the dressing room, especially unannounced, and giving pep talks. As much as I like Wrexham's owners and their commitment, watching them (naively, I hope) impose themselves over the manager disappoints me. I am ok with JC. No need to change him or the family. I believe itās to do with who comes in and who goes out? Naturally Dublin is part of this set up, the tactics etc is down to the coaches but they donāt have full say in the player they want? I dunna want the Coates out, just be on hand to run the club as it should and let the football side of things including players transfers to a Director of Football & Coach.
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Post by senojbor on Feb 17, 2024 0:26:39 GMT
Last chance saloon for the Coates family
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Post by baconburger on Feb 17, 2024 11:47:04 GMT
I donāt know how youāve reached those conclusion. JC has never so much as suggested he is involved in football decisions on the pitch. RM as a technical director is essentially a DoF theyāre the same thing by different names. Iām not adverse to a different DoF/sporting/technical director but still arenāt sure what RM has done to deserve to be sacked. Weāre only just over a year into this new structure/approach and have only a few weeks ago gone for a change of direction with a new head coach with a very different football philosophy to previous managers. Iād give them at least another year to try to turn things around. If you go back to the fans forum last year with Alex Neil, Ricky Martin & JC he clearly states heās part a football set up. With regards to transfers. As with Martin, the recent incomings and how the team is getting worse in the league is a good indicator. Yeah JC said heās on the technical board and explained why as he can give the go ahead to things within the process rather than them having to come to him outside of their deliberations for his authorisation to proceed or stop them before they waste their time pursuing deals he wonāt sanction. To make out he gets involved in football matters on the pitch is pretty absurd. Iāve no idea whether the team is getting worse in the league we could end up very much where weāve been since relegation. Itās a shame we arenāt getting better but then the squad has been assembled with a negative net spend so you can hope to improve but to expect improvement is kind of weird. Despite our rubbish league position, awful goal scoring record and abysmal home form Iād say our Summer business could still turn a profit eventually. Whether that translates into improving the other stuff only time will tell but itās certainly not had as long for us to see if it might work than the buy British, buy proven, ignore resale prospects that failed, failed and failed again time upon time.
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Post by hoppo96 on Feb 17, 2024 12:55:23 GMT
I mean its getting to a point where they'll think what actually is the point. From their side they'll think we've chucked millions and millions at it. We've kept season ticket prices on frozen prices forever. We gave them 10 years in the prem. We pay away travel.....you get my drift. Yet the fans are never happy and give us dogs abuse. The fans obviously have a slighly different view of it. If I was in their position I'd definitely be thinking long and hard as to whether it was worth the grief. Wouldn't you? it's probably not worth it but you can't blame fans for having an issue, we can't just cheer our way into League One.
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