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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 12, 2024 6:23:25 GMT
If they get someone who knows what they're doing in the Technical Director role, rather than a bullshitting chancer, with the resources they have then success will eventually follow. It has to.
However, will they ever be able to make a good appointment?
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 12, 2024 6:30:12 GMT
Didn’t John Coates mention he thought FFP rules would change if not end of this season maybe next allowing more investment? Yes it’s obviously got be spent right, but eventually something has got to click Yeah we’ll easily have the biggest budget in league 1. I joke, I joke, I think.
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 12, 2024 6:39:07 GMT
We need OUR Mark Harford, Neil Dewsnip.
Not sure if posh have anyone?
Oxford always SEEM a decently enough run club who sell players on for profit.
Outside of that, I’d be looking at any well run club punching above their weight, whether that be in the league/ Europe or a real pedigree of producing players. RB Salzburg, Sassuolo, (I know those 2 will be unrealistic, but the type of club) Dinamo, Basel, Patrizan Belgrade, Anderlect, Club Brugge etc.
With some absolutely fucking enormous, time bound bonuses to get us into the prem and player production.
The romantic in me says give Bojan a year at Barca to learn the ropes safely, then bring him here.
Personally what I really want and need from John at the minute is to come out and say
We know it’s not been good enough, and sometimes you need to take a step backwards to go forwards. This is the style of football, manager and players we are going to recruit moving forward. They will live the ethos and the culture of the club. (Whatever he decides they are? Attacking, aggressive, front foot, fast?) whether Schumacher turns it round or not.
Then recruit the TD/DOF who is used to that brand of football, with the skill sets you want (player development, scouting reach, player identification) to be able to recruit for it.
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Post by telfordstokie on Feb 12, 2024 7:32:17 GMT
Very early days but Man United seem to have improved since the Ineos guy took a minority stake and control over football decisions. Maybe some kind of arrangement like that could work for us? Finding someone willing to do it would be a challenge though.
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Post by professorplump on Feb 12, 2024 7:56:25 GMT
Very early days but Man United seem to have improved since the Ineos guy took a minority stake and control over football decisions. Maybe some kind of arrangement like that could work for us? Finding someone willing to do it would be a challenge though. I think the Coates family would be quite open to selling a minority stake but I'm not so sure they would want to concede control to that person.
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Post by jokker on Feb 12, 2024 8:20:56 GMT
What has MH done since he left Stoke? He did manage to keep his then employer up in 2018, unlike his former employer that same year, thus suggesting had the latter kept him on, we'd not been relegated.
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Post by jokker on Feb 12, 2024 8:24:09 GMT
Very early days but Man United seem to have improved since the Ineos guy took a minority stake and control over football decisions. Maybe some kind of arrangement like that could work for us? Finding someone willing to do it would be a challenge though. Or maybe they just happened to come across easier opposition for the last few games...
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Post by jokker on Feb 12, 2024 8:26:52 GMT
Very early days but Man United seem to have improved since the Ineos guy took a minority stake and control over football decisions. Maybe some kind of arrangement like that could work for us? Finding someone willing to do it would be a challenge though. I think the Coates family would be quite open to selling a minority stake. The fact that the board consists entirely of family members suggests they are very much not open to outside interference.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 12, 2024 8:48:42 GMT
David Moyes has 5 months left on his contract, possibly not to be renewed.
Director of Football.
I wonder if;
1. JC would consider creating such a position and if he did would DM fit the bill? 2. If offered the opportunity would DM take up the challenge?
I’d be extremely surprised if JC isn’t already reviewing the footballing structure and the performance of RM. You couldn’t look much further for the necessary level of experience that DM could offer.
Just thinking out loud
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Post by starkiller on Feb 12, 2024 8:54:07 GMT
Unfortunately they've been taken for a ride by too many fraudsters.
Removing Jared and Brent would be a positive move. They've managed to assemble the worst squad of players in our modern history, of which it is almost impossible to choose a first 11.
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Post by pushon on Feb 12, 2024 10:20:08 GMT
It's probably the eventual sale of Bet365 which will determine the immediate future of SCFC. How old is Denise..late fifties? There'll come a time when she decides to enjoy the 'fruits of her labour' and all that stuff.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 12, 2024 10:42:37 GMT
It's probably the eventual sale of Bet365 which will determine the immediate future of SCFC. How old is Denise..late fifties? There'll come a time when she decides to enjoy the 'fruits of her labour' and all that stuff. I'd say she's of the ilk that'll never give up work. Her whole thing is hard work and making money. And the fact she likes making lots of money would mean we should hope she never has sole decision making ability on SCFC. Because if she did she'd sell it in a heart beat I reckon. Unless of course there is a family agreement that nobody ever sells Peters toy maybe?
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Post by pushon on Feb 12, 2024 10:56:36 GMT
It's probably the eventual sale of Bet365 which will determine the immediate future of SCFC. How old is Denise..late fifties? There'll come a time when she decides to enjoy the 'fruits of her labour' and all that stuff. I'd say she's of the ilk that'll never give up work. Her whole thing is hard work and making money. And the fact she likes making lots of money would mean we should hope she never has sole decision making ability on SCFC. Because if she did she'd sell it in a heart beat I reckon. Unless of course there is a family agreement that nobody ever sells Peters toy maybe? All this is speculation I know. But if she is so driven by profit (making money) then the inertia of the SC annual financial losses must be anathema to her.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 12, 2024 11:32:10 GMT
A big majority are saying,don't sell,but bring in the right people to run the club,taking the pressure off JC.
So why can't JC see this & do something about it?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 12, 2024 11:49:40 GMT
A big majority are saying,don't sell,but bring in the right people to run the club,taking the pressure off JC. So why can't JC see this & do something about it? Pride or an unnerving belief in his plan? A desire to match Denise in the success stakes? Dunno really.
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Post by independent on Feb 12, 2024 12:16:04 GMT
We need OUR Mark Harford, Neil Dewsnip. Not sure if posh have anyone? Oxford always SEEM a decently enough run club who sell players on for profit. Outside of that, I’d be looking at any well run club punching above their weight, whether that be in the league/ Europe or a real pedigree of producing players. RB Salzburg, Sassuolo, (I know those 2 will be unrealistic, but the type of club) Dinamo, Basel, Patrizan Belgrade, Anderlect, Club Brugge etc. With some absolutely fucking enormous, time bound bonuses to get us into the prem and player production. The romantic in me says give Bojan a year at Barca to learn the ropes safely, then bring him here. Personally what I really want and need from John at the minute is to come out and say We know it’s not been good enough, and sometimes you need to take a step backwards to go forwards. This is the style of football, manager and players we are going to recruit moving forward. They will live the ethos and the culture of the club. (Whatever he decides they are? Attacking, aggressive, front foot, fast?) whether Schumacher turns it round or not. Then recruit the TD/DOF who is used to that brand of football, with the skill sets you want (player development, scouting reach, player identification) to be able to recruit for it. I think that this mad rush to get back into the Premier League has caused us more problems than anything else.What is wrong with building up a proper structure first that can make staying in the Premiership sustainable, when the inevitable wage freeze comes in. Only 2 clubs made a profit in the top league last season. In other words 18 clubs made a loss and 3 of them are going to be expected to bounce back again next year so that they can again lose money. Seems like a great idea. If they don't get back up then they will be in even bigger financial trouble as their income decreases in the Championship, but their cost base doesn't. Is this the definition of Success for a Championship club.
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Post by melbournepotter on Feb 12, 2024 12:53:16 GMT
We need OUR Mark Harford, Neil Dewsnip. Not sure if posh have anyone? Oxford always SEEM a decently enough run club who sell players on for profit. Outside of that, I’d be looking at any well run club punching above their weight, whether that be in the league/ Europe or a real pedigree of producing players. RB Salzburg, Sassuolo, (I know those 2 will be unrealistic, but the type of club) Dinamo, Basel, Patrizan Belgrade, Anderlect, Club Brugge etc. With some absolutely fucking enormous, time bound bonuses to get us into the prem and player production. The romantic in me says give Bojan a year at Barca to learn the ropes safely, then bring him here. Personally what I really want and need from John at the minute is to come out and say We know it’s not been good enough, and sometimes you need to take a step backwards to go forwards. This is the style of football, manager and players we are going to recruit moving forward. They will live the ethos and the culture of the club. (Whatever he decides they are? Attacking, aggressive, front foot, fast?) whether Schumacher turns it round or not. Then recruit the TD/DOF who is used to that brand of football, with the skill sets you want (player development, scouting reach, player identification) to be able to recruit for it. I think that this mad rush to get back into the Premier League has caused us more problems than anything else.What is wrong with building up a proper structure first that can make staying in the Premiership sustainable, when the inevitable wage freeze comes in. Only 2 clubs made a profit in the top league last season. In other words 18 clubs made a loss and 3 of them are going to be expected to bounce back again next year so that they can again lose money. Seems like a great idea. If they don't get back up then they will be in even bigger financial trouble as their income decreases in the Championship, but their cost base doesn't. Is this the definition of Success for a Championship club. I think that is a great question. What is the definition of success for a Championship club ? is it struggling to stay in the Prem and losing millions to do so each year, with (currently) little chance of breaking into the top 5 or 6 , or is it staying in the top 7 or 8 in the Championship, fans enjoying more wins than losses and hopefully having good players that are entertaining at that level. I realise a successful season will send you up to the Prem but for how long can football clubs afford to lose millions each year ?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 12, 2024 14:20:54 GMT
We need OUR Mark Harford, Neil Dewsnip. Not sure if posh have anyone? Oxford always SEEM a decently enough run club who sell players on for profit. Outside of that, I’d be looking at any well run club punching above their weight, whether that be in the league/ Europe or a real pedigree of producing players. RB Salzburg, Sassuolo, (I know those 2 will be unrealistic, but the type of club) Dinamo, Basel, Patrizan Belgrade, Anderlect, Club Brugge etc. With some absolutely fucking enormous, time bound bonuses to get us into the prem and player production. The romantic in me says give Bojan a year at Barca to learn the ropes safely, then bring him here. Personally what I really want and need from John at the minute is to come out and say We know it’s not been good enough, and sometimes you need to take a step backwards to go forwards. This is the style of football, manager and players we are going to recruit moving forward. They will live the ethos and the culture of the club. (Whatever he decides they are? Attacking, aggressive, front foot, fast?) whether Schumacher turns it round or not. Then recruit the TD/DOF who is used to that brand of football, with the skill sets you want (player development, scouting reach, player identification) to be able to recruit for it. I think that this mad rush to get back into the Premier League has caused us more problems than anything else.What is wrong with building up a proper structure first that can make staying in the Premiership sustainable, when the inevitable wage freeze comes in. Only 2 clubs made a profit in the top league last season. In other words 18 clubs made a loss and 3 of them are going to be expected to bounce back again next year so that they can again lose money. Seems like a great idea. If they don't get back up then they will be in even bigger financial trouble as their income decreases in the Championship, but their cost base doesn't. Is this the definition of Success for a Championship club. Anyone would think it's the road to a global super league nevermind a European one.
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Post by Block 22 on Feb 12, 2024 14:32:46 GMT
You can have all of the money in the world, if you don’t have the intellect and strategy to run a football club, or employ people that do, you will go nowhere. Coates is a glowing example.
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Post by matelot1996 on Feb 12, 2024 14:43:10 GMT
I mean its getting to a point where they'll think what actually is the point. From their side they'll think we've chucked millions and millions at it. We've kept season ticket prices on frozen prices forever. We gave them 10 years in the prem. We pay away travel.....you get my drift. Yet the fans are never happy and give us dogs abuse. The fans obviously have a slighly different view of it. If I was in their position I'd definitely be thinking long and hard as to whether it was worth the grief. Wouldn't you? I don’t think it would be good for club, but… Maybe having Billionaires bankrolling certain failing areas of the business has contributed to the overall entitled, unprofessional feel about the club. A more prudent owner with sterner demands from their employees could be a refreshing change. It’s a rock and a hard place. If Coates do remain owners they need to toughen up and treat it as a serious Business where they demand excellence from every quarter. At the moment, it is glaringly obvious SCFC is a rich persons play thing to them. They’re embarrassing themselves.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 12, 2024 15:16:10 GMT
I mean its getting to a point where they'll think what actually is the point. From their side they'll think we've chucked millions and millions at it. We've kept season ticket prices on frozen prices forever. We gave them 10 years in the prem. We pay away travel.....you get my drift. Yet the fans are never happy and give us dogs abuse. The fans obviously have a slighly different view of it. If I was in their position I'd definitely be thinking long and hard as to whether it was worth the grief. Wouldn't you? I don’t think it would be good for club, but… Maybe having Billionaires bankrolling certain failing areas of the business has contributed to the overall entitled, unprofessional feel about the club. A more prudent owner with sterner demands from their employees could be a refreshing change. It’s a rock and a hard place. If Coates do remain owners they need to toughen up and treat it as a serious Business where they demand excellence from every quarter. At the moment, it is glaringly obvious SCFC is a rich persons play thing to them. They’re embarrassing themselves. Could be something in that. A subliminal malaise of easy street attitudes for incoming players. Either way the club has to put a stop to any bullshit from players somehow. John Coates needs to be more of a deadly Doug at Villa back in the day.
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 12, 2024 15:33:50 GMT
I think that this mad rush to get back into the Premier League has caused us more problems than anything else.What is wrong with building up a proper structure first that can make staying in the Premiership sustainable, when the inevitable wage freeze comes in. Only 2 clubs made a profit in the top league last season. In other words 18 clubs made a loss and 3 of them are going to be expected to bounce back again next year so that they can again lose money. Seems like a great idea. If they don't get back up then they will be in even bigger financial trouble as their income decreases in the Championship, but their cost base doesn't. Is this the definition of Success for a Championship club. I think that is a great question. What is the definition of success for a Championship club ? is it struggling to stay in the Prem and losing millions to do so each year, with (currently) little chance of breaking into the top 5 or 6 , or is it staying in the top 7 or 8 in the Championship, fans enjoying more wins than losses and hopefully having good players that are entertaining at that level. I realise a successful season will send you up to the Prem but for how long can football clubs afford to lose millions each year ? It’ll vary from person to person, and I’m Sure you’ll have enjoyed the BMX era as much as anyone else. However we could just become a championship version of posh.
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Post by baconburger on Feb 12, 2024 15:44:26 GMT
David Moyes has 5 months left on his contract, possibly not to be renewed. Director of Football. I wonder if; 1. JC would consider creating such a position and if he did would DM fit the bill? 2. If offered the opportunity would DM take up the challenge? I’d be extremely surprised if JC isn’t already reviewing the footballing structure and the performance of RM. You couldn’t look much further for the necessary level of experience that DM could offer. Just thinking out loud It would be yet another massive flip flop. Back to the dour after how many games? You swapping head coach too because I can’t see the styles of Moyes and Schumacher complimenting one another or finding much common ground.
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Post by nigerianstokie on Feb 12, 2024 16:49:00 GMT
I mean its getting to a point where they'll think what actually is the point. From their side they'll think we've chucked millions and millions at it. We've kept season ticket prices on frozen prices forever. We gave them 10 years in the prem. We pay away travel.....you get my drift. Yet the fans are never happy and give us dogs abuse. The fans obviously have a slighly different view of it. If I was in their position I'd definitely be thinking long and hard as to whether it was worth the grief. Wouldn't you? Dogs abuse? They get off so lightly because “they care.” They’ve ran an absolute shitshow for half a decade and deserve rinsing for it yet they get fuck all.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 12, 2024 16:53:16 GMT
I mean its getting to a point where they'll think what actually is the point. From their side they'll think we've chucked millions and millions at it. We've kept season ticket prices on frozen prices forever. We gave them 10 years in the prem. We pay away travel.....you get my drift. Yet the fans are never happy and give us dogs abuse. The fans obviously have a slighly different view of it. If I was in their position I'd definitely be thinking long and hard as to whether it was worth the grief. Wouldn't you? Dogs abuse? They get off so lightly because “they care.” They’ve ran an absolute shitshow for half a decade and deserve rinsing for it yet they get fuck all. When I say dogs abuse I'm trying to put myself in their position. And to be fair they do get some abuse. Rightly so in many respects. But my point really was will they get to a point where they wonder if its worth the hassle. Better things to be doing and all that....
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Post by nigerianstokie on Feb 12, 2024 16:58:34 GMT
Dogs abuse? They get off so lightly because “they care.” They’ve ran an absolute shitshow for half a decade and deserve rinsing for it yet they get fuck all. When I say dogs abuse I'm trying to put myself in their position. And to be fair they do get some abuse. Rightly so in many respects. But my point really was will they get to a point where they wonder if its worth the hassle. Better things to be doing and all that.... I wouldn’t disagree that they probably have better things to do. But from what I can see they get absolutely zero abuse other than one or two on here who pretty much get told to shut up by people who think we should never be annoyed at them because they were once good or it could be worse…
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Feb 12, 2024 16:58:56 GMT
They 100% will not sell as long as Peter is at the club. But I can envisage a scenario after that where Denise basically tells John the fun is over and to can it.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 12, 2024 17:04:45 GMT
When I say dogs abuse I'm trying to put myself in their position. And to be fair they do get some abuse. Rightly so in many respects. But my point really was will they get to a point where they wonder if its worth the hassle. Better things to be doing and all that.... I wouldn’t disagree that they probably have better things to do. But from what I can see they get absolutely zero abuse other than one or two on here who pretty much get told to shut up by people who think we should never be annoyed at them because they were once good or it could be worse… I agree with you. They shouldn't be immune to criticism. And the way shit has gone down the last 7 years its easy to see why people aren't satisfied. They may own it but its our club too and all that 👍 But I also recognise that this hurts them too as they are genuine Stoke fans. Its a sad situation all round really.
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 12, 2024 17:35:51 GMT
We need OUR Mark Harford, Neil Dewsnip. Not sure if posh have anyone? Oxford always SEEM a decently enough run club who sell players on for profit. Outside of that, I’d be looking at any well run club punching above their weight, whether that be in the league/ Europe or a real pedigree of producing players. RB Salzburg, Sassuolo, (I know those 2 will be unrealistic, but the type of club) Dinamo, Basel, Patrizan Belgrade, Anderlect, Club Brugge etc. With some absolutely fucking enormous, time bound bonuses to get us into the prem and player production. The romantic in me says give Bojan a year at Barca to learn the ropes safely, then bring him here. Personally what I really want and need from John at the minute is to come out and say We know it’s not been good enough, and sometimes you need to take a step backwards to go forwards. This is the style of football, manager and players we are going to recruit moving forward. They will live the ethos and the culture of the club. (Whatever he decides they are? Attacking, aggressive, front foot, fast?) whether Schumacher turns it round or not. Then recruit the TD/DOF who is used to that brand of football, with the skill sets you want (player development, scouting reach, player identification) to be able to recruit for it. I think that this mad rush to get back into the Premier League has caused us more problems than anything else.What is wrong with building up a proper structure first that can make staying in the Premiership sustainable, when the inevitable wage freeze comes in. Only 2 clubs made a profit in the top league last season. In other words 18 clubs made a loss and 3 of them are going to be expected to bounce back again next year so that they can again lose money. Seems like a great idea. If they don't get back up then they will be in even bigger financial trouble as their income decreases in the Championship, but their cost base doesn't. Is this the definition of Success for a Championship club. Yeah i was just broad brushing this to be fair, nothing to say we can’t be the championship Peterborough in development stakes or rival Southampton’s player production, if that what Coates wants to do. Our demise all started with the muddled thinking of wanting to push on and crack into Europe and also becoming self sufficient, we landed on neither and have been in no man’s land ever since. Like I address in my original point, Coates need to decide on what he actually wants the club to be, then go from there in that image and solely that image. Controversially, I don’t think Coates is against outside influences, I think he listens to them too much, and is easily swayed. which is the problem and what leads us lurching from manager to manager, playing style to playing style.
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Post by jokker on Feb 12, 2024 18:12:31 GMT
It's probably the eventual sale of Bet365 which will determine the immediate future of SCFC. How old is Denise..late fifties? There'll come a time when she decides to enjoy the 'fruits of her labour' and all that stuff. I'd say she's of the ilk that'll never give up work. Her whole thing is hard work and making money. And the fact she likes making lots of money would mean we should hope she never has sole decision making ability on SCFC. Because if she did she'd sell it in a heart beat I reckon. Unless of course there is a family agreement that nobody ever sells Peters toy maybe? There probably is, although that's not how they would look at it. They've felt they have an obligation to the Stoke community which they've been more than happy to fulfill, Denise included. So they have probably outlined a fund to look after and spend the club's resources when all current members of the family have passed away. There would of course still have to be someone chairing the club, and I can't imagine how they will solve that, unless of course the position does go to the highest bidder. Or maybe they're hoping for AI to do the dirty work for them...
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