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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 17:37:09 GMT
Coates Sr has said that his biggest mistake was giving Mick Mills £1m to spend when he had also been considering sacking him.
The kindest thing I can say is that the plan for this summer seems somewhat bold.
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Post by Clayton Wood on May 30, 2023 17:41:51 GMT
Are we witnessing the birth of the Rimmer/NHW factions? Like Kennedy & Diana remember where you were when you first read this.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 30, 2023 17:52:33 GMT
Are we witnessing the birth of the Rimmer/NHW factions? Like Kennedy & Diana remember where you were when you first read this. All the true supporters at Ianrb's barbers are all still staunchly pro-Neil and believe he's the man to take us back to the Prem. There's apparently growing discontent down there about the "vocal minority" of NHWs
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Post by peterthornesboots on May 30, 2023 18:49:45 GMT
I am not exactly sure what to make of all of this.
There appears to be one hell of a lot of departures behind the scenes.
It is definitely revolution rather than evolution.
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Post by gawa on May 30, 2023 19:37:22 GMT
There's a difference between not being likeable and being hated and while Neil might not be the most likable person at the club there is nothing coming out to suggest he's hated. The club is certainly being shaken up but given the last 5 years that's hardly a concern or a surprise - it needs it. The key attribute a manager needs is to be respected, not liked and the only thing that will keep them on the job is results, not the number of Valentine's day cards they get. If Martin and Neil screw up recruitment then they should be rightly criticised but criticising them for making decisions that might make them unlikeable is just a recipe for failure - they're just doing the job they are paid to do. The only 2 things we know for sure are 1)They have been here for a season and have made results worse and 2)They are racing around firing everyone. And one of them is passive/aggressive and border line paranoid and the other trots out crazy middle management psycho-babble. I know I wouldn't want any part of it. Does anybody actually know for sure if they're going around firing everyone? Could it not just be staff members deciding they want to work elsewhere too? Richard Walkers farewell message for instance gave the impression that he chose to leave to pursue opportunities elsewhere. Giving alot of other clubs are announcing new staff members to their backroom and stoke are just announcing people leaving with no one incoming. It does seem quite strange. Would you sack so many people from the backroom team with no replacements lined up? I think it's maybe a combo of some being moved and others deciding to leave to pursue new opportunities too.
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Post by theonlooker on May 30, 2023 20:30:58 GMT
Are we witnessing the birth of the Rimmer/NHW factions? Like Kennedy & Diana remember where you were when you first read this. All the true supporters at Ianrb's barbers are all still staunchly pro-Neil and believe he's the man to take us back to the Prem. There's apparently growing discontent down there about the "vocal minority" of NHWs The good old days. Ianrb and Stripey. Great pair of 'Pulis' lads...
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Post by davejohnno1 on May 30, 2023 21:04:20 GMT
All the true supporters at Ianrb's barbers are all still staunchly pro-Neil and believe he's the man to take us back to the Prem. There's apparently growing discontent down there about the "vocal minority" of NHWs The good old days. Ianrb and Stripey. Great pair of 'Pulis' lads... Spent a lot of time in the barbers did ianrb. An awful lot of time.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 30, 2023 21:06:19 GMT
The good old days. Ianrb and Stripey. Great pair of 'Pulis' lads... Spent a lot of time in the barbers did ianrb. An awful lot of time. He had the last laugh though
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 30, 2023 21:15:22 GMT
1 "They" haven't been here for a season. Martin was appointed way after the season started. 2 Neil has made results worse with a squad he inherited. The only way results will improve is if he's allowed to dismantle and rebuild - which is what is going to happen. 3 They've looked at who they have got in the building and over the last six months have decided they don't like what they see and are systematically rebuilding everything behind the scenes. It's their job. There's nothing to indicate Neil is passive/aggressive or paranoid. He's forthright, driven and doesn't look like he suffers fools but he comes over as being level headed and completely sane. Must admit to not liking Martin's psychobabble. New management regimes have that effect in any walk of life - I've been around when the change has suited me and others when it hasn't. If it doesn't you leave. All of this is well and good except 2.). According to you the only way a manager can not get worse results is by bribing his own players in / overhauling the squad? Is that a serious statement, do you really believe that and stand by it? In terms of 2 if a manager inherits an underperforming squad that happens to suit their footballing philosophy then they can have an instant impact. Thing is Neil didn't - the squad was average, built for a style of play that bears absolutely no resemblance to a Neil team and there was no way it was ever going to work. We could have gone for a manager who would have provided some continuity in playing style - Wilder or, my personal choice Mark Robins, but we didn't. The only way Neil is going to have a positive impact is by making wholesale changes - which is what is going to happen. This talk of constraining what he does is bollocks - it would gauantee failure. And anyway who is going to restrain what he does? Another layer of management who haven't bought into what he wants to do? Yep - that will work. We are where we are - we back him or we sack him. And it's perfectly clear we aren't going to sack him.
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Post by tosh on May 30, 2023 21:19:07 GMT
The only 2 things we know for sure are 1)They have been here for a season and have made results worse and 2)They are racing around firing everyone. And one of them is passive/aggressive and border line paranoid and the other trots out crazy middle management psycho-babble. I know I wouldn't want any part of it. Does anybody actually know for sure if they're going around firing everyone? Could it not just be staff members deciding they want to work elsewhere too? Richard Walkers farewell message for instance gave the impression that he chose to leave to pursue opportunities elsewhere. Giving alot of other clubs are announcing new staff members to their backroom and stoke are just announcing people leaving with no one incoming. It does seem quite strange. Would you sack so many people from the backroom team with no replacements lined up? I think it's maybe a combo of some being moved and others deciding to leave to pursue new opportunities too. Whichever it is it’s pretty worrying. If the whole club staff and squad are Neil nominations, and if he messes up, he’s making himself very difficult to sack isn’t he
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 30, 2023 21:28:56 GMT
Does anybody actually know for sure if they're going around firing everyone? Could it not just be staff members deciding they want to work elsewhere too? Richard Walkers farewell message for instance gave the impression that he chose to leave to pursue opportunities elsewhere. Giving alot of other clubs are announcing new staff members to their backroom and stoke are just announcing people leaving with no one incoming. It does seem quite strange. Would you sack so many people from the backroom team with no replacements lined up? I think it's maybe a combo of some being moved and others deciding to leave to pursue new opportunities too. Whichever it is it’s pretty worrying. If the whole club staff and squad are Neil nominations, and if he messes up, he’s making himself very difficult to sack isn’t he It’s like he and Martin are actually;ly thd billionaires running it like it’s theirs rather than hired custodians
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Post by Gods on May 30, 2023 22:34:45 GMT
The only 2 things we know for sure are 1)They have been here for a season and have made results worse and 2)They are racing around firing everyone. And one of them is passive/aggressive and border line paranoid and the other trots out crazy middle management psycho-babble. I know I wouldn't want any part of it. Does anybody actually know for sure if they're going around firing everyone? Could it not just be staff members deciding they want to work elsewhere too? Richard Walkers farewell message for instance gave the impression that he chose to leave to pursue opportunities elsewhere. Giving alot of other clubs are announcing new staff members to their backroom and stoke are just announcing people leaving with no one incoming. It does seem quite strange. Would you sack so many people from the backroom team with no replacements lined up? I think it's maybe a combo of some being moved and others deciding to leave to pursue new opportunities too. Yeah, I suppose it could be that staff with options who have not been summarily fired are just walking. For me I'd rather be eaten alive by cannibals than report to AN and tricky Ricky.
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Post by eaststokie on May 31, 2023 12:19:51 GMT
Richard Walker going appears to be the biggest risk for us - in that I'd guess Wolves will be hoping/expecting some of our best youngsters to follow him down the M6 I doubt Rooster going is going to hurt us too much in the same respect - but I've no idea what his coaching abilities were like
My biggest issue reporting to someone like Neil is that he's obviously a workaholic and most managers who are tend to have similar expectations on their staff. So yes some will have decided it's "not for me" on that alone. I suspect it will be the same for some players like Baker
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 31, 2023 13:37:49 GMT
I am not exactly sure what to make of all of this. There appears to be one hell of a lot of departures behind the scenes. It is definitely revolution rather than evolution. But we want to evolve not revolve....
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Post by biddulphchav on May 31, 2023 14:27:22 GMT
All of this is well and good except 2.). According to you the only way a manager can not get worse results is by bribing his own players in / overhauling the squad? Is that a serious statement, do you really believe that and stand by it? In terms of 2 if a manager inherits an underperforming squad that happens to suit their footballing philosophy then they can have an instant impact. Thing is Neil didn't - the squad was average, built for a style of play that bears absolutely no resemblance to a Neil team and there was no way it was ever going to work. We could have gone for a manager who would have provided some continuity in playing style - Wilder or, my personal choice Mark Robins, but we didn't. The only way Neil is going to have a positive impact is by making wholesale changes - which is what is going to happen. This talk of constraining what he does is bollocks - it would gauantee failure. And anyway who is going to restrain what he does? Another layer of management who haven't bought into what he wants to do? Yep - that will work. We are where we are - we back him or we sack him. And it's perfectly clear we aren't going to sack him. Yes I agree to a point. I think a manager who can’t adapt to a playing squad that was decent (or average) and certainly not shite, particularly after the loans in January, needs careful oversight before he goes about and basically mismanages the whole club. See Gary Rowett for reference, we are only just now dusting off the last bits of shit his reign blasted on us. I’m concerned Neil will go the same way, so I wouldn’t be backing him to the hilt the way we seem to be doing.
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Post by march4 on Jun 5, 2023 22:41:57 GMT
I hadn’t noticed just how badly our u21 team did in their league this season. The only team we finished above were Derby who had no players of their own! Added to that, the failure of any players coming through our academy system to make an impact on the first team (I don’t include players like Souttar, Collins, Campbell, Bursik, etc who were big money signings at a young age), it is probably for the best that some changes are made to the staffing structure.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 5, 2023 22:57:48 GMT
I hadn’t noticed just how badly our u21 team did in their league this season. The only team we finished above were Derby who had no players of their own! Added to that, the failure of any players coming through our academy system to make an impact on the first team (I don’t include players like Souttar, Collins, Campbell, Bursik, etc who were big money signings at a young age), it is probably for the best that some changes are made to the staffing structure. They all count ffs 🤦♂️🤣 As do Edwards, Taylor, Tezgel and Lowe.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 5, 2023 23:21:54 GMT
I hadn’t noticed just how badly our u21 team did in their league this season. The only team we finished above were Derby who had no players of their own! Added to that, the failure of any players coming through our academy system to make an impact on the first team (I don’t include players like Souttar, Collins, Campbell, Bursik, etc who were big money signings at a young age), it is probably for the best that some changes are made to the staffing structure. What was the average age of our u21 last season? Teams in the U21 tend to go through recycling of league positions depending on how old the better players of last season were. They also had to do without Macari, Lowe and Tezgel, who were all called up and never used/injured in the first team.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 5, 2023 23:30:42 GMT
I hadn’t noticed just how badly our u21 team did in their league this season. The only team we finished above were Derby who had no players of their own! Added to that, the failure of any players coming through our academy system to make an impact on the first team (I don’t include players like Souttar, Collins, Campbell, Bursik, etc who were big money signings at a young age), it is probably for the best that some changes are made to the staffing structure. What was the average age of our u21 last season? Teams in the U21 tend to go through recycling of league positions depending on how old the better players of last season were. They also had to do without Macari, Lowe and Tezgel, who were all called up and never used/injured in the first team. The u21s lost Baker, Sparrow, Jones and Malone too. We often played a quite young side and one that was made up with a lot of signings. And anyway, results at youth football mean Jack shit anyway.
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 5, 2023 23:46:52 GMT
What was the average age of our u21 last season? Teams in the U21 tend to go through recycling of league positions depending on how old the better players of last season were. They also had to do without Macari, Lowe and Tezgel, who were all called up and never used/injured in the first team. The u21s lost Baker, Sparrow, Jones and Malone too. We often played a quite young side and one that was made up with a lot of signings. And anyway, results at youth football mean Jack shit anyway. Quite agree. It's ludicrous to judge the quality of young player development at a club on U21 results.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 5, 2023 23:58:53 GMT
The u21s lost Baker, Sparrow, Jones and Malone too. We often played a quite young side and one that was made up with a lot of signings. And anyway, results at youth football mean Jack shit anyway. Quite agree. It's ludicrous to judge the quality of young player development at a club on U21 results. Better to judge them on the number of push ups they can do I say.
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Post by march4 on Jun 6, 2023 8:46:24 GMT
I hadn’t noticed just how badly our u21 team did in their league this season. The only team we finished above were Derby who had no players of their own! Added to that, the failure of any players coming through our academy system to make an impact on the first team (I don’t include players like Souttar, Collins, Campbell, Bursik, etc who were big money signings at a young age), it is probably for the best that some changes are made to the staffing structure. They all count ffs 🤦♂️🤣 As do Edwards, Taylor, Tezgel and Lowe. No they don’t Bayern. We were spending heavily on those players because they had been developed at another club’s academy. And wasn’t Taylor another signing? Tezgel and Lowe are very promising but it’s far too early to say they are making a first team impact. That leaves Edwards. Are you really saying our academy and U21s are a success because of Tom Edwards? I had an open mind on this until I saw that league table and then the penny dropped. Our academy and training facilities have cost a fortune and what are we getting out of it?
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Post by bunnyscfc on Jun 6, 2023 9:12:54 GMT
They all count ffs 🤦♂️🤣 As do Edwards, Taylor, Tezgel and Lowe. No they don’t Bayern. We were spending heavily on those players because they had been developed at another club’s academy. And wasn’t Taylor another signing? Tezgel and Lowe are very promising but it’s far too early to say they are making a first team impact. That leaves Edwards. Are you really saying our academy and U21s are a success because of Tom Edwards? I had an open mind on this until I saw that league table and then the penny dropped. Our academy and training facilities have cost a fortune and what are we getting out of it? Your last sentence - CW isn't in the top 15 training grounds in the country, possibly 20. Nice and shiny, but way too small to host adult and kids teams imho. No on-site dome to really speak of etc. Also, far harder for those going through from 8-16 to break into a Cat 1/EPL first team - they simply buy in. Look at Man City - they've just bought in 4 of the best U16 keepers in the country.
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Post by lordb on Jun 6, 2023 9:28:29 GMT
Perhaps it's time for all EFL clubs to scrap youth set ups, just let Man City and Chelsea do it all, we all end up with their players anyway
Football is broken
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Post by bhp on Jun 6, 2023 9:58:39 GMT
They all count ffs 🤦♂️🤣 As do Edwards, Taylor, Tezgel and Lowe. No they don’t Bayern. We were spending heavily on those players because they had been developed at another club’s academy. And wasn’t Taylor another signing? Tezgel and Lowe are very promising but it’s far too early to say they are making a first team impact. That leaves Edwards. Are you really saying our academy and U21s are a success because of Tom Edwards? I had an open mind on this until I saw that league table and then the penny dropped. Our academy and training facilities have cost a fortune and what are we getting out of it? Taylor signed as a scholar from Stafford Rangers. Previously at Vale until 15/16 and was released.
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Post by march4 on Jun 6, 2023 10:31:49 GMT
No they don’t Bayern. We were spending heavily on those players because they had been developed at another club’s academy. And wasn’t Taylor another signing? Tezgel and Lowe are very promising but it’s far too early to say they are making a first team impact. That leaves Edwards. Are you really saying our academy and U21s are a success because of Tom Edwards? I had an open mind on this until I saw that league table and then the penny dropped. Our academy and training facilities have cost a fortune and what are we getting out of it? Your last sentence - CW isn't in the top 15 training grounds in the country, possibly 20. Nice and shiny, but way too small to host adult and kids teams imho. No on-site dome to really speak of etc. Also, far harder for those going through from 8-16 to break into a Cat 1/EPL first team - they simply buy in. Look at Man City - they've just bought in 4 of the best U16 keepers in the country. So we have a top 20 facility that has cost a fortune and in 10 years it has produced Tom Edwards. Not much of a record is it?
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Post by nottsover60 on Jun 6, 2023 10:41:44 GMT
I hadn’t noticed just how badly our u21 team did in their league this season. The only team we finished above were Derby who had no players of their own! Added to that, the failure of any players coming through our academy system to make an impact on the first team (I don’t include players like Souttar, Collins, Campbell, Bursik, etc who were big money signings at a young age), it is probably for the best that some changes are made to the staffing structure. What was the average age of our u21 last season? Teams in the U21 tend to go through recycling of league positions depending on how old the better players of last season were. They also had to do without Macari, Lowe and Tezgel, who were all called up and never used/injured in the first team. I am pretty sure we were not the only young squad. I am pretty sure I read that Man City regularly play u18s in their u21 team and nearly every report I read from an opposition site on an u21 match against Stoke started with 'A very young blue/city/albion/United squad...'
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Post by iglugluk on Jun 6, 2023 10:46:34 GMT
Perhaps it's time for all EFL clubs to scrap youth set ups, just let Man City and Chelsea do it all, we all end up with their players anyway Football is broken Football is representative of the wider principle of unrestrained greed that is tainting our World in general, as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 6, 2023 11:02:53 GMT
What was the average age of our u21 last season? Teams in the U21 tend to go through recycling of league positions depending on how old the better players of last season were. They also had to do without Macari, Lowe and Tezgel, who were all called up and never used/injured in the first team. I am pretty sure we were not the only young squad. I am pretty sure I read that Man City regularly play u18s in their u21 team and nearly every report I read from an opposition site on an u21 match against Stoke started with 'A very young blue/city/albion/United squad...' I’m sorry, but it’s not exactly logical to compare Man City and Man Utd to Stoke. As above, Man City just seemingly purchased four very good U16s keepers. For the most part, Stoke get their cast offs or the players that they don’t think are worth it. You may as well compare Stoke’s first team to Man City’s or Man Utd’s. They can all say “young”, they all are young. That doesn’t mean that Stoke’s U21s this year wasn’t gutted of experienced players that would have improved their results: Baker, Sparrow, Jones, Malone, Tezgel, Lowe and Macari were all gone/on loan/called up and not used.
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Post by march4 on Jun 6, 2023 11:14:37 GMT
I am pretty sure we were not the only young squad. I am pretty sure I read that Man City regularly play u18s in their u21 team and nearly every report I read from an opposition site on an u21 match against Stoke started with 'A very young blue/city/albion/United squad...' I’m sorry, but it’s not exactly logical to compare Man City and Man Utd to Stoke. As above, Man City just seemingly purchased four very good U16s keepers. For the most part, Stoke get their cast offs or the players that they don’t think are worth it. You may as well compare Stoke’s first team to Man City’s or Man Utd’s. They can all say “young”, they all are young. That doesn’t mean that Stoke’s U21s this year wasn’t gutted of experienced players that would have improved their results: Baker, Sparrow, Jones, Malone, Tezgel, Lowe and Macari were all gone/on loan/called up and not used. That’s a fair point but surely other teams do the same. We can’t escape the fact that in their league, the only team we finished above had no players of their own to field.
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