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Post by sportsman on May 30, 2023 13:23:54 GMT
We’ll see if the two maybes get added to the list from what I posted yesterday. Fun times! Poor Danny Pugh 🤣 Utterly atrociously run club, if it was another club we’d be wetting ourselves with laughter.., Who in their right minds would come to this club, poisonous from top to bottom. Relegation written all over it. Why is it? I bet there's managers in the championship who'd love be in AN's position. All them vacant positions to pick who he actually wants without having make do or shift people on. A squad that he's kept on who he wants and buggered the rest off. Plenty of scope for salary and fees. For me, other than it may, unless we storm this season, take a year to bed the squad in properly, it's a perfect situation for a manager that's had a good few months to see what's what at the club and now has all that scope to do it.
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Post by thevoid on May 30, 2023 13:26:23 GMT
The owners of Leicester have delivered a league title and an FA Cup. I’d put money on them being back in the Premier League before we are as well. They did. But they've still massively cut their investment in the first team...resulting in relegation.. A bit like we did then, but minus the trophies?
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Post by Gods on May 30, 2023 13:40:03 GMT
No it's not. Whether or not the manager is likeable determines whether or not anyone would wish to sign up to play for him and whether those already stuck under his suffocating regime are motivated to die for the cause for him. It's perfectly possible to be respected and likeable. I'm afraid AN has zero sense of humour and zero humility. I might feel differently if he actually delievered some decent results but as well as, or more likely because of, pissing off many of the staff at the football club he has just presided over the very worst of 6 piss-poor finished since our fall from grace. There's a difference between not being likeable and being hated and while Neil might not be the most likable person at the club there is nothing coming out to suggest he's hated. The club is certainly being shaken up but given the last 5 years that's hardly a concern or a surprise - it needs it. The key attribute a manager needs is to be respected, not liked and the only thing that will keep them on the job is results, not the number of Valentine's day cards they get. If Martin and Neil screw up recruitment then they should be rightly criticised but criticising them for making decisions that might make them unlikeable is just a recipe for failure - they're just doing the job they are paid to do. The only 2 things we know for sure are 1)They have been here for a season and have made results worse and 2)They are racing around firing everyone. And one of them is passive/aggressive and border line paranoid and the other trots out crazy middle management psycho-babble. I know I wouldn't want any part of it.
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Post by march4 on May 30, 2023 14:04:46 GMT
In leadership theory, the phrase ‘people pleasers’ is used as a reason why many leaders fail. Successful leadership is all about having a progressive vision and ensuring all employees are 100% bought into that vision. I can’t imagine the likes of Clough, Shankly and SAF to be particularly cheerful souls. Clough and shankly and Red face didn’t posses the worst home record since queen. Victoria was on the throne , difference is they hsve credibility in spades , winners one and all fancy coming and losing to Rotherham , QPR etc etc lacks a bit of credibility All struggled at new clubs for a while as they got rid of the unwanted and established their vision. Then they started to thrive. It is essential in the successful leadership of any failing business to move out anyone the leader doesn’t think has embraced the vision. Moving down to our scale, even Waddo and TP didn’t achieve much to begin with. AN is doing exactly the right thing. We simply cannot continue in the vein we have for the past 7 years.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 30, 2023 14:09:27 GMT
There's a difference between not being likeable and being hated and while Neil might not be the most likable person at the club there is nothing coming out to suggest he's hated. The club is certainly being shaken up but given the last 5 years that's hardly a concern or a surprise - it needs it. The key attribute a manager needs is to be respected, not liked and the only thing that will keep them on the job is results, not the number of Valentine's day cards they get. If Martin and Neil screw up recruitment then they should be rightly criticised but criticising them for making decisions that might make them unlikeable is just a recipe for failure - they're just doing the job they are paid to do. The only 2 things we know for sure are 1)They have been here for a season and have made results worse and 2)They are racing around firing everyone. And one of them is passive/aggressive and border line paranoid and the other trots out crazy middle management psycho-babble. I know I wouldn't want any part of it. 1 "They" haven't been here for a season. Martin was appointed way after the season started. 2 Neil has made results worse with a squad he inherited. The only way results will improve is if he's allowed to dismantle and rebuild - which is what is going to happen. 3 They've looked at who they have got in the building and over the last six months have decided they don't like what they see and are systematically rebuilding everything behind the scenes. It's their job. There's nothing to indicate Neil is passive/aggressive or paranoid. He's forthright, driven and doesn't look like he suffers fools but he comes over as being level headed and completely sane. Must admit to not liking Martin's psychobabble. New management regimes have that effect in any walk of life - I've been around when the change has suited me and others when it hasn't. If it doesn't you leave.
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Post by march4 on May 30, 2023 14:13:30 GMT
The only 2 things we know for sure are 1)They have been here for a season and have made results worse and 2)They are racing around firing everyone. And one of them is passive/aggressive and border line paranoid and the other trots out crazy middle management psycho-babble. I know I wouldn't want any part of it. 1 "They" haven't been here for a season. Martin was appointed way after the season started. 2 Neil has made results worse with a squad he inherited. The only way results will improve is if he's allowed to dismantle and rebuild - which is what is going to happen. 3 They've looked at who they have got in the building and over the last six months have decided they don't like what they see and are systematically rebuilding everything behind the scenes. It's their job. There's nothing to indicate Neil is passive/aggressive or paranoid. He's forthright, driven and doesn't look like he suffers fools but he comes over as being level headed and completely sane. Must admit to not liking Martin's psychobabble. New management regimes have that effect in any walk of life - I've been around when the change has suited me and others when it hasn't. If it doesn't you leave. Good post. The effective management of change is the essential element that all successful leaders share.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2023 14:14:23 GMT
1 "They" haven't been here for a season. Martin was appointed way after the season started. 2 Neil has made results worse with a squad he inherited. The only way results will improve is if he's allowed to dismantle and rebuild - which is what is going to happen. 3 They've looked at who they have got in the building and over the last six months have decided they don't like what they see and are systematically rebuilding everything behind the scenes. It's their job. There's nothing to indicate Neil is passive/aggressive or paranoid. He's forthright, driven and doesn't look like he suffers fools but he comes over as being level headed and completely sane. Must admit to not liking Martin's psychobabble. New management regimes have that effect in any walk of life - I've been around when the change has suited me and others when it hasn't. If it doesn't you leave. Good post. The effective management of change is the essential element that all successful leaders share. PARKLIFE
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Post by gawa on May 30, 2023 14:15:00 GMT
Utterly atrociously run club, if it was another club we’d be wetting ourselves with laughter.., Who in their right minds would come to this club, poisonous from top to bottom. Relegation written all over it. Why is it? I bet there's managers in the championship who'd love be in AN's position. All them vacant positions to pick who he actually wants without having make do or shift people on. A squad that he's kept on who he wants and buggered the rest off. Plenty of scope for salary and fees. For me, other than it may, unless we storm this season, take a year to bed the squad in properly, it's a perfect situation for a manager that's had a good few months to see what's what at the club and now has all that scope to do it. And if the regression already experienced continues under Alex Neil and he gets sacked. What happens then? Everyone gets their contracts paid off and the next manager brings in his own staff from cleaner through to director of football? It just seems strange to give the manager which has led the club to their worst points tally in this division for 20 years so much power and very much feels like another Gary rowett roll of the dice.
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Post by gawa on May 30, 2023 14:17:57 GMT
Clough and shankly and Red face didn’t posses the worst home record since queen. Victoria was on the throne , difference is they hsve credibility in spades , winners one and all fancy coming and losing to Rotherham , QPR etc etc lacks a bit of credibility All struggled at new clubs for a while as they got rid of the unwanted and established their vision. Then they started to thrive. It is essential in the successful leadership of any failing business to move out anyone the leader doesn’t think has embraced the vision. Moving down to our scale, even Waddo and TP didn’t achieve much to begin with. AN is doing exactly the right thing. We simply cannot continue in the vein we have for the past 7 years. This is the same AN who recently sold England's #1 for the next decade for peanuts? How come you've got so much faith?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 30, 2023 14:19:24 GMT
The good news about all of this vision and freedom we're allowing the manager to have in giving him the agency to change quite literally everything is that Alex Neil doesn't have a history of jumping ship if a seemingly more attractive project comes along.
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Post by biddulphchav on May 30, 2023 14:41:53 GMT
Because we haven’t seen change where it’s needed and this feels very very drastic. I'm looking at it that Neil has been in charge since last September & has observed things during the remainder of the season. That's almost 8mths of him assessing what's right and wrong within the workings of the club. That doesn't seem drastic to me. If he'd come in when he did and made all these changes to coaching staff by October I'd tend to agree with you but over time he's made gradual changes. I'm guessing the Liam Delap situation and recall led to Rorys departure when it occurred but Alex Neil worked with John O'Shea until the seasons conclusion before he departed. & now its clear the academy set up is going through change aswell. Perhaps given the right recruitment system Alex Neil will work with and utilise the Academy system more than he's currently doing. With the season a few weeks completed now this is exactly the right time for behind the scenes changes to be made. All ready to start from the same page come Pre Season commencement coming around. New staff, new players, new objectives, it's all hopefully positive strides & has got rid of the vast majority of the relegation noose that's been hanging around our club for far to long now. The old regime of Scholes etc kept promising we'd learn from our mistakes and be better going forwards!! Well absolutely nothing changed, that's a fact by our constant failings and league positions. & for those suggesting Alex Neil doesn't utilise the younger home grown players, he definitely tapped into that whilst he was with Sunderland. I can see where you are coming from, but trusting this management team so blindly seems risky when let’s be honest, they don’t exactly have the track record to support the kind of power that’s been placed in their hands. The success of these changes relies pretty much on the judgement of Neil and Martin, and I think that’s a dangerous game based on what I have seen. I would have much rather we went through a ‘transition’ where the changes they recommended were supporting by good performance in their own roles first and foremost (right now I would say average at best) and a clear justification and forward plan. If we have people in mind to replace Rooster and Walker (and you’d think we do) that to me suggests AN made up his mind about them very early and things have been going on behind the scenes for a while. If this management team continue to perform as they have we’ll have a whole structure of people brought in on their say so. Have they got the credibility to have widespread support for it? Have they bollocks, I’d have fired AN by now if it was up to me, he’s a cretin
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Post by biddulphchav on May 30, 2023 14:45:00 GMT
Surely the recruitment team deserve the credit for the sales of Souttar and Collins and potential sale of Campbell? After all we didn’t exactly “produce” them. We didn't - but we did nurture them through to the progress they made, which resulted in the fees we are depending on. Would they have gotten there without us? Probably/possibly, but you look at Campbell and wonder if other clubs would have kept faith with him for as long as we did after his injury, and have kept playing him even as he struggled/is struggling to get to his best. You could even say how many clubs would have kept faith with Tymon, who seemed for years to be going nowhere but down. You can thank MoN for that. In fact practically every young player who we’ve brought into the team since we came down was under him. AN, not so much
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Post by biddulphchav on May 30, 2023 14:49:57 GMT
The only 2 things we know for sure are 1)They have been here for a season and have made results worse and 2)They are racing around firing everyone. And one of them is passive/aggressive and border line paranoid and the other trots out crazy middle management psycho-babble. I know I wouldn't want any part of it. 1 "They" haven't been here for a season. Martin was appointed way after the season started. 2 Neil has made results worse with a squad he inherited. The only way results will improve is if he's allowed to dismantle and rebuild - which is what is going to happen. 3 They've looked at who they have got in the building and over the last six months have decided they don't like what they see and are systematically rebuilding everything behind the scenes. It's their job. There's nothing to indicate Neil is passive/aggressive or paranoid. He's forthright, driven and doesn't look like he suffers fools but he comes over as being level headed and completely sane. Must admit to not liking Martin's psychobabble. New management regimes have that effect in any walk of life - I've been around when the change has suited me and others when it hasn't. If it doesn't you leave. All of this is well and good except 2.). According to you the only way a manager can not get worse results is by bribing his own players in / overhauling the squad? Is that a serious statement, do you really believe that and stand by it?
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 30, 2023 14:57:12 GMT
After 5 years of championship stagnation....
The oatcake calls for a clear out and complete change to the failing club that is Stoke city...
Change happens...
The Oatcake in outrage at these changes..how dare they get rid of so many staff like this..
Sometimes you just can't win.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 15:02:38 GMT
After 5 years of championship stagnation.... The oatcake calls for a clear out and complete change to the failing club that is Stoke city... Change happens... The Oatcake in outrage at these changes..how dare they get rid of so many staff like this.. Sometimes you just can't win. Well done for missing the point entirely. It's nothing to do with not wanting a rebuild. If anything a proper rebuild is 5 years overdue. It's yet again a rebuild in the eye of a first team manager (and this time his mate upstairs) that will again be shot down in flames if he starts the season as badly as he finished the last one, for it all to start over again. THAT'S the issue.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 30, 2023 15:12:04 GMT
After 5 years of championship stagnation.... The oatcake calls for a clear out and complete change to the failing club that is Stoke city... Change happens... The Oatcake in outrage at these changes..how dare they get rid of so many staff like this.. Sometimes you just can't win. Well done for missing the point entirely. It's nothing to do with not wanting a rebuild. If anything a proper rebuild is 5 years overdue. It's yet again a rebuild in the eye of a first team manager (and this time his mate upstairs) that will again be shot down in flames if he starts the season as badly as he finished the last one, for it all to start over again. THAT'S the issue. So you don't want a new manager to try and change the culture... Are you saying you want someone who was brought to the club in the rowett, Jones, MON era to oversee this change
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 15:14:45 GMT
Well done for missing the point entirely. It's nothing to do with not wanting a rebuild. If anything a proper rebuild is 5 years overdue. It's yet again a rebuild in the eye of a first team manager (and this time his mate upstairs) that will again be shot down in flames if he starts the season as badly as he finished the last one, for it all to start over again. THAT'S the issue. So you don't want a new manager to try and change the culture... Are you saying you want someone who was brought to the club in the rowett, Jones, MON era to oversee this change Well done again. Can you make it a hat trick?
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 30, 2023 15:17:46 GMT
So you don't want a new manager to try and change the culture... Are you saying you want someone who was brought to the club in the rowett, Jones, MON era to oversee this change Well done again. Can you make it a hat trick? Tell me who you want to instigate this rebuild?? Clearly not Alex Neil.. so is it someone John Coates chooses.. Instead of pointing the finger at me.. come up with your preferred plan.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 15:49:49 GMT
Well done again. Can you make it a hat trick? Tell me who you want to instigate this rebuild?? Clearly not Alex Neil.. so is it someone John Coates chooses.. Instead of pointing the finger at me.. come up with your preferred plan. To be fair, you've pointed fingers at posters on here in your first post. There are a lot of posters that have spent many, many months pointing out their opinions on how the club is run and how it should be run. It's pretty much the polar opposite of what the club are doing. Appoint a proper DOF, task him with running the football side of the club, set down a club philosophy and appoint key people to match that philosophy. Employ and use a data driven recruitment model and follow that philosophy going forwards when first team and Academy coaches need replacing, minimising the upheaval that we see every time we replace a manager. It really has been done to death on here - proper ad-nauseum. What we are doing now just smacks of a more extreme version of what we've always done and failed at. What next if Neil fails, sack him and appoint a manager that builds out from the back, panic when that doesn't work with a squad built for something different and get rid of Martin and bring in the New King's right hand man?
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 30, 2023 16:06:08 GMT
Tell me who you want to instigate this rebuild?? Clearly not Alex Neil.. so is it someone John Coates chooses.. Instead of pointing the finger at me.. come up with your preferred plan. To be fair, you've pointed fingers at posters on here in your first post. There are a lot of posters that have spent many, many months pointing out their opinions on how the club is run and how it should be run. It's pretty much the polar opposite of what the club are doing. Appoint a proper DOF, task him with running the football side of the club, set down a club philosophy and appoint key people to match that philosophy. Employ and use a data driven recruitment model and follow that philosophy going forwards when first team and Academy coaches need replacing, minimising the upheaval that we see every time we replace a manager. It really has been done to death on here - proper ad-nauseum. What we are doing now just smacks of a more extreme version of what we've always done and failed at. What next if Neil fails, sack him and appoint a manager that builds out from the back, panic when that doesn't work with a squad built for something different and get rid of Martin and bring in the New King's right hand man? I understand your view which I think appears to say you want a DOF appointed to oversee all things football..not a manager as Alex Neil.. So who appoints this DOF is it John Coates.. What if the DOF gets it wrong..does he get sacked or the manager.eother way it amounts to scfc being back at square one.. My own view is..yes things have been run bad for a number of years.. But now we have a chance to make wholesale changes and someone has to oversee those changes.. the board have decided its Alex Neil to oversee those changes, yes they could have chose a DOF oversee that.. but there is no guarantee of success either way.. to every luton, Brighton, Brentford there is a spurs, Leeds, chelsea.. At least the club are now trying to make changes which fans have been crying out for, late I agree but there doing it now. They've chosen the route they want to take. I'm gonna support it and Alex Neil and believe it will bring change to scfc which is what everybody has asked for.
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Post by pavel on May 30, 2023 16:08:07 GMT
The only 2 things we know for sure are 1)They have been here for a season and have made results worse and 2)They are racing around firing everyone. And one of them is passive/aggressive and border line paranoid and the other trots out crazy middle management psycho-babble. I know I wouldn't want any part of it. 1 "They" haven't been here for a season. Martin was appointed way after the season started. 2 Neil has made results worse with a squad he inherited. The only way results will improve is if he's allowed to dismantle and rebuild - which is what is going to happen. 3 They've looked at who they have got in the building and over the last six months have decided they don't like what they see and are systematically rebuilding everything behind the scenes. It's their job. There's nothing to indicate Neil is passive/aggressive or paranoid. He's forthright, driven and doesn't look like he suffers fools but he comes over as being level headed and completely sane. Must admit to not liking Martin's psychobabble. New management regimes have that effect in any walk of life - I've been around when the change has suited me and others when it hasn't. If it doesn't you leave. I would take issue with the second sentence of point 2, many managers, good managers improve a team with what they have got, it's been proven time and again. Wholesale dismantling and rebuilding is not the only way to do it, in fact it can be a recipe for disaster. New management regimes tend to work when they take the people with them rather than alienating them. It smacks of blaming everybody but themselves and there are some very well regarded people who are moving on. Whatever, we'll soon find out and can all debate it ad nauseam this time next year because, in reality, nobody really has a clue what is going to happen, especially with the huge amount of change happening.
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Post by pavel on May 30, 2023 16:14:10 GMT
After 5 years of championship stagnation.... The oatcake calls for a clear out and complete change to the failing club that is Stoke city... Change happens... The Oatcake in outrage at these changes..how dare they get rid of so many staff like this.. Sometimes you just can't win. Well done for missing the point entirely. It's nothing to do with not wanting a rebuild. If anything a proper rebuild is 5 years overdue. It's yet again a rebuild in the eye of a first team manager (and this time his mate upstairs) that will again be shot down in flames if he starts the season as badly as he finished the last one, for it all to start over again. THAT'S the issue. Thanks, you've saved me posting, it's just so damn obvious and as you later say, just a more extreme version of what we have been doing and failing for so long.
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Post by thevoid on May 30, 2023 16:24:30 GMT
This is an awful lot of power for a bloke currently on a run of four home defeats on the spin and is a bad start away from copping some serious unrest.
We just never learn
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 30, 2023 16:27:51 GMT
Or maybe it's the changes that have long been needed and the start of better things to come for stoke..
I apologise for my optimism.
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Post by pavel on May 30, 2023 16:40:31 GMT
Or maybe it's the changes that have long been needed and the start of better things to come for stoke.. I apologise for my optimism. But they are not changes in a structural sense. Time and time again we have employed a manager and let them have full control over recruitment, coaching personnel and playing philosophy rather than have a structure and football philosophy in place and matching a new manager to that structure/philosophy so that we can have continuity. So when/if the current manager fails, what do we do then, we employ another manager whose style doesn't fit the players Neil has brought in and we rip it all up and start again. We have been doing this for years and it's a type of Russian roulette with no end date. I'm all for optimism but it's stretch to be optimistic about where the club is at the moment and the blind alley it's going down yet again. Apologies for my pessimism.
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Post by chiswickpotter on May 30, 2023 16:47:03 GMT
I was thinking this. I'm open to change and will hopefully see a better production line than we've seen ourselves in the last few years. I keep hearing that the academies producing but who really have we produced that's gone to be a staple & secure player with Stoke, or has left us after a meaningful contribution to bigger and better things? Even during the Premier League years we had Wilko, Dicko & latterly Edwards. More recent Souttar & Collins. Yes Tyrese has made the first team and has done very well in patches, but let's not forget he was a product of Man City initially. As Souttar was at Dundee United and spent most of his academy time on loan with Joey Barton. We haven't been producing talent on a regular enough basis for me to say the current academy set up is not beyond change and a different direction. So bar 35m quids of talent and raise that to 40 if you include Campbell. And then I’d say 60 if we use Tezgel right, it’s done nothing…. The club has been effective as a finishing school but the academy has not brought through any talent from an early age to first team regular in over a decade. For the resources available and the boost a decade in the Premier League gave to early years recruitment that is a significant failure to deliver. Whether the people leaving are responsible I don’t know but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to be questioning performance. If we see success as taking players from other clubs, copy Brentford and shit down recruitment until under 18s.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 30, 2023 17:06:08 GMT
Tell me who you want to instigate this rebuild?? Clearly not Alex Neil.. so is it someone John Coates chooses.. Instead of pointing the finger at me.. come up with your preferred plan. To be fair, you've pointed fingers at posters on here in your first post. There are a lot of posters that have spent many, many months pointing out their opinions on how the club is run and how it should be run. It's pretty much the polar opposite of what the club are doing. Appoint a proper DOF, task him with running the football side of the club, set down a club philosophy and appoint key people to match that philosophy. Employ and use a data driven recruitment model and follow that philosophy going forwards when first team and Academy coaches need replacing, minimising the upheaval that we see every time we replace a manager. It really has been done to death on here - proper ad-nauseum. What we are doing now just smacks of a more extreme version of what we've always done and failed at. What next if Neil fails, sack him and appoint a manager that builds out from the back, panic when that doesn't work with a squad built for something different and get rid of Martin and bring in the New King's right hand man? Can somebody tell me what is the difference apart between a DOF and a technical director? To me a technical director is the one who decides in which direction a club should move forward and makes the decisions which he thinks will make them a successful business. Surely that role puts him above the manager as success on the field is needed for a club to be a successful business not his right hand man. I understand the concern that Ricky Martin is Alex Neil's appointment but do we actually know that or was he just a recommendation of someone Neil saw as having the same view as him? As the technical director of a business he carries out the wishes of the board and recruits the people he sees as being able to carry out those wishes. Of course the manager's view has to align with the technical director's view. In the future therefore should Neil leave or be sacked the technical director will appoint the next manager and will appoint the man he sees best suited to the way the board want the club to go. That must include to a large extent continuing and building on what the previous manager has done. Appointing someone who plays in a totally different way would mean that the board don't have a vision. That criticism of not knowing what he wants has been aimed often enough at Jon Coates. Perhaps that has at last changed. At interview all managers will be asked how they want to play, how they see the club succeeding, what they will do to ensure success etc etc. The technical director should then decide which candidate's view is most aligned with the club's vision. What exactly would a DoF do differently? I think we are arguing about nuances.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 17:10:06 GMT
To be fair, you've pointed fingers at posters on here in your first post. There are a lot of posters that have spent many, many months pointing out their opinions on how the club is run and how it should be run. It's pretty much the polar opposite of what the club are doing. Appoint a proper DOF, task him with running the football side of the club, set down a club philosophy and appoint key people to match that philosophy. Employ and use a data driven recruitment model and follow that philosophy going forwards when first team and Academy coaches need replacing, minimising the upheaval that we see every time we replace a manager. It really has been done to death on here - proper ad-nauseum. What we are doing now just smacks of a more extreme version of what we've always done and failed at. What next if Neil fails, sack him and appoint a manager that builds out from the back, panic when that doesn't work with a squad built for something different and get rid of Martin and bring in the New King's right hand man? Can somebody tell me what is the difference apart between a DOF and a technical director? To me a technical director is the one who decides in which direction a club should move forward and makes the decisions which he thinks will make them a successful business. Surely that role puts him above the manager as success on the field is needed for a club to be a successful business not his right hand man. I understand the concern that Ricky Martin is Alex Neil's appointment but do we actually know that or was he just a recommendation of someone Neil saw as having the same view as him? As the technical director of a business he carries out the wishes of the board and recruits the people he sees as being able to carry out those wishes. Of course the manager's view has to align with the technical director's view. In the future therefore should Neil leave or be sacked the technical director will appoint the next manager and will appoint the man he sees best suited to the way the board want the club to go. That must include to a large extent continuing and building on what the previous manager has done. Appointing someone who plays in a totally different way would mean that the board don't have a vision. That criticism of not knowing what he wants has been aimed often enough at Jon Coates. Perhaps that has at last changed. At interview all managers will be asked how they want to play, how they see the club succeeding, what they will do to ensure success etc etc. The technical director should then decide which candidate's view is most aligned with the club's vision. What exactly would a DoF do differently? I think we are arguing about nuances. Ask Norwich what the difference is. Martin was TD there with Neil as manager. Neil was sacked, their board citing the recruitment model under the pair as financially unsustainable and brought in Stuart Webber as DOF, who promptly sacked Martin as TD and appointed Farke as manager, whilst revamping their recruitment department of which Chris Badlan (linked with us) was one employed from Wolves...
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Post by questionable on May 30, 2023 17:21:00 GMT
Well done for missing the point entirely. It's nothing to do with not wanting a rebuild. If anything a proper rebuild is 5 years overdue. It's yet again a rebuild in the eye of a first team manager (and this time his mate upstairs) that will again be shot down in flames if he starts the season as badly as he finished the last one, for it all to start over again. THAT'S the issue. So you don't want a new manager to try and change the culture... Are you saying you want someone who was brought to the club in the rowett, Jones, MON era to oversee this change He’s not a new manager though is he, he actually made MON look OK. His football entirely was piss poor and devoid of pretty much everything.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 30, 2023 17:25:19 GMT
Can somebody tell me what is the difference apart between a DOF and a technical director? To me a technical director is the one who decides in which direction a club should move forward and makes the decisions which he thinks will make them a successful business. Surely that role puts him above the manager as success on the field is needed for a club to be a successful business not his right hand man. I understand the concern that Ricky Martin is Alex Neil's appointment but do we actually know that or was he just a recommendation of someone Neil saw as having the same view as him? As the technical director of a business he carries out the wishes of the board and recruits the people he sees as being able to carry out those wishes. Of course the manager's view has to align with the technical director's view. In the future therefore should Neil leave or be sacked the technical director will appoint the next manager and will appoint the man he sees best suited to the way the board want the club to go. That must include to a large extent continuing and building on what the previous manager has done. Appointing someone who plays in a totally different way would mean that the board don't have a vision. That criticism of not knowing what he wants has been aimed often enough at Jon Coates. Perhaps that has at last changed. At interview all managers will be asked how they want to play, how they see the club succeeding, what they will do to ensure success etc etc. The technical director should then decide which candidate's view is most aligned with the club's vision. What exactly would a DoF do differently? I think we are arguing about nuances. Ask Norwich what the difference is. Martin was TD there with Neil as manager. Neil was sacked, their board citing the recruitment model under the pair as financially unsustainable and brought in Stuart Webber as DOF, who promptly sacked Martin as TD and appointed Farke as manager, whilst revamping their recruitment department of which Chris Badlan (linked with us) was one employed from Wolves... Do any clubs have both? Or was it inevitable that the TD would be sacked once a DOF was appointed? Just that the first job the new DOF was tasked with was sacking the TD? I would imagine that a TD trumps a DOF as he oversees all recruiting of staff whereas a DOF just oversees the football recruitment.
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