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Post by stokiedan17 on May 29, 2023 22:09:54 GMT
I always thought the academy did well in the competitions under rooster but I could be wrong.
What age groups did he have an influence over? If it’s a decision based on the u21s performance this year in the PL2 they’ve only won 3 matches all year and finished 10th
However the u23s the previous year in the same competition before the age group rules changes finished 3rd and won 12
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 29, 2023 22:10:59 GMT
What are Gareth Owen’s responsibilities with the academy these days? I thought he was the head of it and responsible for the staffing of it? Presumably he's been completely undermined by RM To be fair that's not a bad thing, the bloke is out of his depth.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 29, 2023 22:49:30 GMT
A reminder in his first few weeks here when he only had Martin Canning with him, Neil said:
“One thing that’s been really important at every club I’ve been at and I think is vital is that there are some people who are Stoke through and through and those type of people can get undervalued sometimes. People who are Stoke through and through need to be at the centre of the club and that’s something I’ll look to maintain as long as they’re giving everything I expect every day.
“There are guys who have been here for a long time who are fundamental parts of the club. I will be looking to work with them as closely as possible and bring the best out of them I possibly can.”
Since then we’ve seen a massive cull of extant staff and many former players and affiliates. So he’s evidently not been happy with whatever he’s found here, but I find it interesting this was his attitude prior to delivering in his own words his worst season in football. Have to wonder if we’d finished up the table or had a better start with him, how many of these changes would have happened.
I am still so uncomfortable with us giving unparalled agency and oversight to someone in as short a career lifespan as a manager.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 30, 2023 4:09:23 GMT
Maybe it's because the U21's currently make up the majority of the first team squad! 😬
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2023 5:29:20 GMT
It might be? It would depend who the new owners were wouldn't it? In an ideal world the current owners would just learn their lesson and drag themselves into the 2020s, but that clearly isn't going to happen. You mean like the owners of Leicester, wolves and wba who have run out of money and basically have pulled rhe plug on future investments in their club... wba are about to financially implode because of a loan disagreement between owner and club. The owners of Leicester have delivered a league title and an FA Cup. I’d put money on them being back in the Premier League before we are as well.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2023 5:31:18 GMT
A manager doesn't have to be likeable - they have to be effective and that means making unpopular decisions. People who are bothered about being liked more often than not cop out of doing anything that might make them less likeable. If anything the fact Neil isn't particularly likeable and isn't bothered is a positive. No it's not. Whether or not the manager is likeable determines whether or not anyone would wish to sign up to play for him and whether those already stuck under his suffocating regime are motivated to die for the cause for him. It's perfectly possible to be respected and likeable. I'm afraid AN has zero sense of humour and zero humility. I might feel differently if he actually delievered some decent results but as well as, or more likely because of, pissing off many of the staff at the football club he has just presided over the very worst of 6 piss-poor finished since our fall from grace. Yes, ‘sense of humour’ famously a factor when players are determining who to sign for. Burnley’s success this season owes everything to Vincent Kompany’s tight five at the Glee Club.
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Post by Gods on May 30, 2023 6:43:36 GMT
No it's not. Whether or not the manager is likeable determines whether or not anyone would wish to sign up to play for him and whether those already stuck under his suffocating regime are motivated to die for the cause for him. It's perfectly possible to be respected and likeable. I'm afraid AN has zero sense of humour and zero humility. I might feel differently if he actually delievered some decent results but as well as, or more likely because of, pissing off many of the staff at the football club he has just presided over the very worst of 6 piss-poor finished since our fall from grace. Yes, ‘sense of humour’ famously a factor when players are determining who to sign for. Burnley’s success this season owes everything to Vincent Kompany’s tight five at the Glee Club. Very good! But we both know the better players have choices. 'Do I want to work for this bloke at this football club?'
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2023 7:04:54 GMT
Yes, ‘sense of humour’ famously a factor when players are determining who to sign for. Burnley’s success this season owes everything to Vincent Kompany’s tight five at the Glee Club. Very good! But we both know the better players have choices. 'Do I want to work for this bloke at this football club?' They absolutely do have choices and I would suggest 'can I have a giggle with the manager' is fairly low down the list of priorities. Neil's mission this summer is to sell the club as a project to players. We should be competitive in terms of wages. Going forward, if he can deliver success it won't matter to players if he isn't Groucho Marx.
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Post by gingerninja on May 30, 2023 7:26:06 GMT
When Martin was at the West Ham Academy, how successful was he?. Who were /are some of the prominent coaches he used?..Isn't Kevin Keen one of them?..
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Post by boscfc on May 30, 2023 7:33:10 GMT
Very good! But we both know the better players have choices. 'Do I want to work for this bloke at this football club?' They absolutely do have choices and I would suggest 'can I have a giggle with the manager' is fairly low down the list of priorities. Neil's mission this summer is to sell the club as a project to players. We should be competitive in terms of wages. Going forward, if he can deliver success it won't matter to players if he isn't Groucho Marx. Being both utterly charmless and ineffective (to date) doesn't really help to make the project very compelling does it....
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 30, 2023 7:41:06 GMT
A manager doesn't have to be likeable - they have to be effective and that means making unpopular decisions. People who are bothered about being liked more often than not cop out of doing anything that might make them less likeable. If anything the fact Neil isn't particularly likeable and isn't bothered is a positive. No it's not. Whether or not the manager is likeable determines whether or not anyone would wish to sign up to play for him and whether those already stuck under his suffocating regime are motivated to die for the cause for him. It's perfectly possible to be respected and likeable. I'm afraid AN has zero sense of humour and zero humility. I might feel differently if he actually delievered some decent results but as well as, or more likely because of, pissing off many of the staff at the football club he has just presided over the very worst of 6 piss-poor finished since our fall from grace. There's a difference between not being likeable and being hated and while Neil might not be the most likable person at the club there is nothing coming out to suggest he's hated. The club is certainly being shaken up but given the last 5 years that's hardly a concern or a surprise - it needs it. The key attribute a manager needs is to be respected, not liked and the only thing that will keep them on the job is results, not the number of Valentine's day cards they get. If Martin and Neil screw up recruitment then they should be rightly criticised but criticising them for making decisions that might make them unlikeable is just a recipe for failure - they're just doing the job they are paid to do.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2023 7:45:27 GMT
They absolutely do have choices and I would suggest 'can I have a giggle with the manager' is fairly low down the list of priorities. Neil's mission this summer is to sell the club as a project to players. We should be competitive in terms of wages. Going forward, if he can deliver success it won't matter to players if he isn't Groucho Marx. Being both utterly charmless and ineffective (to date) doesn't really help to make the project very compelling does it.... It's only the second one that's especially relevant.
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Post by clarkeda on May 30, 2023 7:52:58 GMT
Ben Marshall went on to have a decent career He was another signed quite late in his development. Louis moult? I actually saw him in Aldi in Nantwich not that long ago thinking about it. Adam Rooney did ok in the lower leagues and Scotland too didn’t he?
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Post by clarkeda on May 30, 2023 7:55:28 GMT
I always thought the academy did well in the competitions under rooster but I could be wrong. What age groups did he have an influence over? If it’s a decision based on the u21s performance this year in the PL2 they’ve only won 3 matches all year and finished 10th However the u23s the previous year in the same competition before the age group rules changes finished 3rd and won 12 From what I gather from Bayern we always seem to play young teams in the youth leagues. EG u23 made up of mostly u-18 etc
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Post by march4 on May 30, 2023 7:55:37 GMT
They absolutely do have choices and I would suggest 'can I have a giggle with the manager' is fairly low down the list of priorities. Neil's mission this summer is to sell the club as a project to players. We should be competitive in terms of wages. Going forward, if he can deliver success it won't matter to players if he isn't Groucho Marx. Being both utterly charmless and ineffective (to date) doesn't really help to make the project very compelling does it.... In leadership theory, the phrase ‘people pleasers’ is used as a reason why many leaders fail. Successful leadership is all about having a progressive vision and ensuring all employees are 100% bought into that vision. I can’t imagine the likes of Clough, Shankly and SAF to be particularly cheerful souls.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 30, 2023 8:02:11 GMT
You mean like the owners of Leicester, wolves and wba who have run out of money and basically have pulled rhe plug on future investments in their club... wba are about to financially implode because of a loan disagreement between owner and club. The owners of Leicester have delivered a league title and an FA Cup. I’d put money on them being back in the Premier League before we are as well. They did. But they've still massively cut their investment in the first team...resulting in relegation..
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 30, 2023 8:04:58 GMT
Being both utterly charmless and ineffective (to date) doesn't really help to make the project very compelling does it.... In leadership theory, the phrase ‘people pleasers’ is used as a reason why many leaders fail. Successful leadership is all about having a progressive vision and ensuring all employees are 100% bought into that vision. I can’t imagine the likes of Clough, Shankly and SAF to be particularly cheerful souls. Clough and shankly and Red face didn’t posses the worst home record since queen. Victoria was on the throne , difference is they hsve credibility in spades , winners one and all fancy coming and losing to Rotherham , QPR etc etc lacks a bit of credibility
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2023 8:29:37 GMT
The owners of Leicester have delivered a league title and an FA Cup. I’d put money on them being back in the Premier League before we are as well. They did. But they've still massively cut their investment in the first team...resulting in relegation.. Unless you're one of the elite though, is that not inevitable to a degree at some point? I'm not sure 'thank god for the Coates family or we might end up like Leicester' is quite the piping hot take you seem to be suggesting?
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Post by nottsover60 on May 30, 2023 9:07:33 GMT
A reminder in his first few weeks here when he only had Martin Canning with him, Neil said: “One thing that’s been really important at every club I’ve been at and I think is vital is that there are some people who are Stoke through and through and those type of people can get undervalued sometimes. People who are Stoke through and through need to be at the centre of the club and that’s something I’ll look to maintain as long as they’re giving everything I expect every day. “There are guys who have been here for a long time who are fundamental parts of the club. I will be looking to work with them as closely as possible and bring the best out of them I possibly can.” Since then we’ve seen a massive cull of extant staff and many former players and affiliates. So he’s evidently not been happy with whatever he’s found here, but I find it interesting this was his attitude prior to delivering in his own words his worst season in football. Have to wonder if we’d finished up the table or had a better start with him, how many of these changes would have happened. I am still so uncomfortable with us giving unparalled agency and oversight to someone in as short a career lifespan as a manager. Hasn't Neil or Martin also said that it is important that all the academy and u21's should play like the first team to aid transition. I can see that point and perhaps there has been a clash over that? From what I've seen of the u21's and u18s, which I must admit isn't much, they seem to have a slow, possession based build up. My worry is that if the coaches who have left have done so because they don't like the style of football they've been asked to play will we like it either? Successful as Luton have been, I want to see a team with football talent as well as athleticism and aggression. And yes I wouldn't have taken promotion in an exchange for playing football like Luton do.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 30, 2023 9:34:14 GMT
A reminder in his first few weeks here when he only had Martin Canning with him, Neil said: “One thing that’s been really important at every club I’ve been at and I think is vital is that there are some people who are Stoke through and through and those type of people can get undervalued sometimes. People who are Stoke through and through need to be at the centre of the club and that’s something I’ll look to maintain as long as they’re giving everything I expect every day. “There are guys who have been here for a long time who are fundamental parts of the club. I will be looking to work with them as closely as possible and bring the best out of them I possibly can.” Since then we’ve seen a massive cull of extant staff and many former players and affiliates. So he’s evidently not been happy with whatever he’s found here, but I find it interesting this was his attitude prior to delivering in his own words his worst season in football. Have to wonder if we’d finished up the table or had a better start with him, how many of these changes would have happened. I am still so uncomfortable with us giving unparalled agency and oversight to someone in as short a career lifespan as a manager. Hasn't Neil or Martin also said that it is important that all the academy and u21's should play like the first team to aid transition. I can see that point and perhaps there has been a clash over that? From what I've seen of the u21's and u18s, which I must admit isn't much, they seem to have a slow, possession based build up. My worry is that if the coaches who have left have done so because they don't like the style of football they've been asked to play will we like it either? Successful as Luton have been, I want to see a team with football talent as well as athleticism and aggression. And yes I wouldn't have taken promotion in an exchange for playing football like Luton do. As far as I can make out the coaches didn't choose to leave they were moved on. If the U18s and U21s were to play a different style of play to the first team it wouldn't do them any favours in terms breaking into the first team. Makes sense to align them. Every manager has a style if play and Neil's is based on athleticism and aggression - everyone knew that when he was appointed. He's bound to impose his way of playing on the club - that's his job and it's pretty clear the owners have given him and Martin carte blanche to shape the club they way they want it. It may succeed or it may fail but pussy footing around and doing half a job is definitely a recipe for disaster.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 30, 2023 11:03:47 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 30, 2023 11:12:37 GMT
We’ll see if the two maybes get added to the list from what I posted yesterday. Fun times! Poor Danny Pugh 🤣
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Post by gingerninja on May 30, 2023 11:14:08 GMT
OMG , that alone is seismic 😳
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Post by theonlooker on May 30, 2023 11:28:53 GMT
"Last one out turn off the lights!"
😂
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Post by dekko on May 30, 2023 12:00:15 GMT
There are a few ex-Preston people at Hearts. I would have thought a few of them may be of interest if Steven Naismith isn’t made permanent manager.
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Post by pavel on May 30, 2023 12:00:29 GMT
"Last one out turn off the lights!" 😂 Indeed, how can you give a manager this much power after the shit show he served up last season, I want to see a team with a balance of pressing, aggression, skill, flair and youth, I think the last three may be missing! On the question of turning off the lights, I think that happened a few years ago.
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Post by cvillestokie on May 30, 2023 12:27:54 GMT
There are a few ex-Preston people at Hearts. I would have thought a few of them may be of interest if Steven Naismith isn’t made permanent manager. Surely, we can do better than that? It’s one thing for a manager to bring in an assistant but coaches should be considered based on the infrastructure available. Certainly, academy coaches shouldn’t have anything to do with the first team manager.
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Post by dekko on May 30, 2023 13:01:00 GMT
It could also be for other roles but their Head of Recruitment and Academy are Ex-Preston (like Gould)and Naismith was at Norwich.
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Post by questionable on May 30, 2023 13:03:56 GMT
We’ll see if the two maybes get added to the list from what I posted yesterday. Fun times! Poor Danny Pugh 🤣 Utterly atrociously run club, if it was another club we’d be wetting ourselves with laughter.., Who in their right minds would come to this club, poisonous from top to bottom. Relegation written all over it.
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Post by thevoid on May 30, 2023 13:22:20 GMT
We’ll see if the two maybes get added to the list from what I posted yesterday. Fun times! Poor Danny Pugh 🤣 Utterly atrociously run club, if it was another club we’d be wetting ourselves with laughter.., Who in their right minds would come to this club, poisonous from top to bottom. Relegation written all over it. Careful, you'll get a slapped wrist from the happy clappers
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