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Post by st3mark on Feb 11, 2023 11:50:30 GMT
I miss having a manager where our gripes were about what starting line ups he picked during Eurpoean football matches. Great times. That's not quite correct. I can assure you there were gripes about his stating line-ups EVERY single week. Its amazing how history can be re-written though. It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss.
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Post by st3mark on Feb 11, 2023 11:51:07 GMT
Big up Pulis. Only manager (and Delap) who made throw in's exciting. Made the Brit a feared place to visit for opposing teams. It was not pretty, but was effective. And we got to see many of the worlds best players. Best ten years of my life.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 11, 2023 11:55:31 GMT
That's not quite correct. I can assure you there were gripes about his stating line-ups EVERY single week. Its amazing how history can be re-written though. It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss. He tried to bomb out Lawrence in that first season in the Prem and tried to replace Wilko and Whelan constantly. He spent £5m on Whitehead who couldn’t hold a candle to Whelan. Again, those first few seasons up to summer 2011 were great but it wasn’t quite as you’re suggesting.
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Post by st3mark on Feb 11, 2023 12:07:28 GMT
It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss. He tried to bomb out Lawrence in that first season in the Prem and tried to replace Wilko and Whelan constantly. He spent £5m on Whitehead who couldn’t hold a candle to Whelan. Again, those first few seasons up to summer 2011 were great but it wasn’t quite as you’re suggesting. Thats evolution. He replaced simo with sorensen and then got bego. And did so with every position. Lawrence was replaced with the much better pennant and then the team became Sorensen Wilko Shawcross Huth Higgy Pennant Whelan Delap Etherington Jones walters This was the starting line up virtually every week. Evolution. Improvement season after season. Whitehead as you fairly pointed out was arguably not an improvement however, he started virtually every game, worked his arse off and the theory that there was questions over his team sheet every week remains complete bollocks. If in ten years we suggest there was questions over the team sheets of rowett, Jones, MON and Neil I'll say "bang on there was. We were wank. The managers hadn't got a clue who the best team were, none of us knew who would be in the team, I argued with my friends over whether bojan should be in the team or whether Clarke or Stirling should be at RB or whether any of the drongos should be in the team at any given time. Or even what formation we should play". Something like that. If in a further 20 years someone brings up Pulis' teams we won't be in the pub saying we questioned his team sheets. We will be able to name the team off by heart for every season he was at the club.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 11, 2023 12:13:02 GMT
He tried to bomb out Lawrence in that first season in the Prem and tried to replace Wilko and Whelan constantly. He spent £5m on Whitehead who couldn’t hold a candle to Whelan. Again, those first few seasons up to summer 2011 were great but it wasn’t quite as you’re suggesting. Thats evolution. He replaced simo with sorensen and then got bego. And did so with every position. Lawrence was replaced with the much better pennant and then the team became Sorensen Wilko Shawcross Huth Higgy Pennant Whelan Delap Etherington Jones walters This was the starting line up virtually every week. Evolution. Improvement season after season. Whitehead as you fairly pointed out was arguably not an improvement however, he started virtually every game, worked his arse off and the theory that there was questions over his team sheet every week remains complete bollocks. If in ten years we suggest there was questions over the team sheets of rowett, Jones, MON and Neil I'll say "bang on there was. We were wank. The managers hadn't got a clue who the best team were, none of us knew who would be in the team, I argued with my friends over whether bojan should be in the team or whether Clarke or Stirling should be at RB or whether any of the drongos should be in the team at any given time. Or even what formation we should play". Something like that. If in a further 20 years someone brings up Pulis' teams we won't be in the pub saying we questioned his team sheets. We will be able to name the team off by heart for every season he was at the club. There were lots of questions about his team sheets. Walters broke a club record for games played in. He started well with us but was crap for quite a while. He kept out Sanli or Pennant and people couldn’t understand why. He played Shotton at right wing instead of Pennant. He would play Delap on the right or the left wing so that he could have both Whelan and Whitehead in the centre. The football around the FA cup run was for me, the most exciting I’ve ever seen us play. However, Pulis wasn’t immune to having some bloody awful ideas.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 11, 2023 12:22:46 GMT
He tried to bomb out Lawrence in that first season in the Prem and tried to replace Wilko and Whelan constantly. He spent £5m on Whitehead who couldn’t hold a candle to Whelan. Again, those first few seasons up to summer 2011 were great but it wasn’t quite as you’re suggesting. Thats evolution. He replaced simo with sorensen and then got bego. And did so with every position. Lawrence was replaced with the much better pennant and then the team became Sorensen Wilko Shawcross Huth Higgy Pennant Whelan Delap Etherington Jones walters This was the starting line up virtually every week. Evolution. Improvement season after season. Whitehead as you fairly pointed out was arguably not an improvement however, he started virtually every game, worked his arse off and the theory that there was questions over his team sheet every week remains complete bollocks. If in ten years we suggest there was questions over the team sheets of rowett, Jones, MON and Neil I'll say "bang on there was. We were wank. The managers hadn't got a clue who the best team were, none of us knew who would be in the team, I argued with my friends over whether bojan should be in the team or whether Clarke or Stirling should be at RB or whether any of the drongos should be in the team at any given time. Or even what formation we should play". Something like that. If in a further 20 years someone brings up Pulis' teams we won't be in the pub saying we questioned his team sheets. We will be able to name the team off by heart for every season he was at the club. It wasn’t evolution, he fell out with Lawrence, bombed him out for months and we were the worse for it that first season and improved exponentially when he was back in the side. He barely played the next season and we had Rory there instead when he was better in the middle. Whitehead was a backwards step and our best performances came when he was out of the team. There were some great, great days and it was a great time overall but again I don’t see the point of rewriting history?
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Post by st3mark on Feb 11, 2023 12:34:16 GMT
Thats evolution. He replaced simo with sorensen and then got bego. And did so with every position. Lawrence was replaced with the much better pennant and then the team became Sorensen Wilko Shawcross Huth Higgy Pennant Whelan Delap Etherington Jones walters This was the starting line up virtually every week. Evolution. Improvement season after season. Whitehead as you fairly pointed out was arguably not an improvement however, he started virtually every game, worked his arse off and the theory that there was questions over his team sheet every week remains complete bollocks. If in ten years we suggest there was questions over the team sheets of rowett, Jones, MON and Neil I'll say "bang on there was. We were wank. The managers hadn't got a clue who the best team were, none of us knew who would be in the team, I argued with my friends over whether bojan should be in the team or whether Clarke or Stirling should be at RB or whether any of the drongos should be in the team at any given time. Or even what formation we should play". Something like that. If in a further 20 years someone brings up Pulis' teams we won't be in the pub saying we questioned his team sheets. We will be able to name the team off by heart for every season he was at the club. There were lots of questions about his team sheets. Walters broke a club record for games played in. He started well with us but was crap for quite a while. He kept out Sanli or Pennant and people couldn’t understand why. He played Shotton at right wing instead of Pennant. He would play Delap on the right or the left wing so that he could have both Whelan and Whitehead in the centre. The football around the FA cup run was for me, the most exciting I’ve ever seen us play. However, Pulis wasn’t immune to having some bloody awful ideas. The Shotton example is a good point. He was trying to keep a throw-in in the team which was one of our best assets at the time. Shotton was poor though and never should have played at that level for me. To suggest Walters should not have been in the team over Tuncay would be an example of someone not having a clue about football and the tactics of the club in general. Walters deserved to start every game and was crucial to our success. But he was a fundamental part of our tactics pressing at the top end. For me Tuncay was used appropriately as a plan B. Would have been a regular under Hughes I reckon but any fans expecting him to start over Walters under Pulis would have been living in an alternate universe where. I'm not suggesting that Pulis didn't make mistakes or that there wasn't the odd example like the Shotton debacle. I'm saying as a fan base we didn't moan about the team most weeks because we were having continual success and improvement whilst virtually naming a regular starting 11 every season. We reaped the rewards and the whole decade was the highlight of the clubs history for the last 50 years. Loved the first three years of Hughes. But each year another huth or a whelan or a Walters was let go and before you know it its too late and we're all here scratching our heads wondering how it happened.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 11, 2023 12:44:13 GMT
There were lots of questions about his team sheets. Walters broke a club record for games played in. He started well with us but was crap for quite a while. He kept out Sanli or Pennant and people couldn’t understand why. He played Shotton at right wing instead of Pennant. He would play Delap on the right or the left wing so that he could have both Whelan and Whitehead in the centre. The football around the FA cup run was for me, the most exciting I’ve ever seen us play. However, Pulis wasn’t immune to having some bloody awful ideas. The Shotton example is a good point. He was trying to keep a throw-in in the team which was one of our best assets at the time. Shotton was poor though and never should have played at that level for me. To suggest Walters should not have been in the team over Tuncay would be an example of someone not having a clue about football and the tactics of the club in general. Walters deserved to start every game and was crucial to our success. But he was a fundamental part of our tactics pressing at the top end. For me Tuncay was used appropriately as a plan B. Would have been a regular under Hughes I reckon but any fans expecting him to start over Walters under Pulis would have been living in an alternate universe where. I'm not suggesting that Pulis didn't make mistakes or that there wasn't the odd example like the Shotton debacle. I'm saying as a fan base we didn't moan about the team most weeks because we were having continual success and improvement whilst virtually naming a regular starting 11 every season. We reaped the rewards and the whole decade was the highlight of the clubs history for the last 50 years. Loved the first three years of Hughes. But each year another huth or a whelan or a Walters was let go and before you know it its too late and we're all here scratching our heads wondering how it happened. We didn’t miss Huth though and Walters/Whelan were shot. Letting them go wasn’t the issue, in Walters/Whelan’s case it was replacing them so poorly, as you say.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Feb 11, 2023 12:52:19 GMT
Loads in that podcast to illustrate what a great manager he was for us, like Lou he got the club and the people, also got the trust of Coates when we had a bit of money, sure it had ups and downs but we are now back to the state before he arrived which in itself makes his spell seem so impressive.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 11, 2023 13:01:07 GMT
There were lots of questions about his team sheets. Walters broke a club record for games played in. He started well with us but was crap for quite a while. He kept out Sanli or Pennant and people couldn’t understand why. He played Shotton at right wing instead of Pennant. He would play Delap on the right or the left wing so that he could have both Whelan and Whitehead in the centre. The football around the FA cup run was for me, the most exciting I’ve ever seen us play. However, Pulis wasn’t immune to having some bloody awful ideas. The Shotton example is a good point. He was trying to keep a throw-in in the team which was one of our best assets at the time. Shotton was poor though and never should have played at that level for me. To suggest Walters should not have been in the team over Tuncay would be an example of someone not having a clue about football and the tactics of the club in general. Walters deserved to start every game and was crucial to our success. But he was a fundamental part of our tactics pressing at the top end. For me Tuncay was used appropriately as a plan B. Would have been a regular under Hughes I reckon but any fans expecting him to start over Walters under Pulis would have been living in an alternate universe where. I'm not suggesting that Pulis didn't make mistakes or that there wasn't the odd example like the Shotton debacle. I'm saying as a fan base we didn't moan about the team most weeks because we were having continual success and improvement whilst virtually naming a regular starting 11 every season. We reaped the rewards and the whole decade was the highlight of the clubs history for the last 50 years. Loved the first three years of Hughes. But each year another huth or a whelan or a Walters was let go and before you know it its too late and we're all here scratching our heads wondering how it happened. Walters played something like 100 games in a row. He played despite going through some awful form (as would be expected for such a time). To pick someone who is bang out of form just because they hustle (when Walters wasn’t in form, he wasn’t doing much else) was a prime example of poor management. It showed to every player in that squad that no matter how you play, you will never be in the team. Pulis lost the plot towards the end. Desperate to play defenders or defensive midfield players on the wing. Beat up his star striker. Got away with crimes for the “sake of the city”. The season he was sacked was a season that we were lucky to stay up.
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Post by st3mark on Feb 11, 2023 13:04:55 GMT
The Shotton example is a good point. He was trying to keep a throw-in in the team which was one of our best assets at the time. Shotton was poor though and never should have played at that level for me. To suggest Walters should not have been in the team over Tuncay would be an example of someone not having a clue about football and the tactics of the club in general. Walters deserved to start every game and was crucial to our success. But he was a fundamental part of our tactics pressing at the top end. For me Tuncay was used appropriately as a plan B. Would have been a regular under Hughes I reckon but any fans expecting him to start over Walters under Pulis would have been living in an alternate universe where. I'm not suggesting that Pulis didn't make mistakes or that there wasn't the odd example like the Shotton debacle. I'm saying as a fan base we didn't moan about the team most weeks because we were having continual success and improvement whilst virtually naming a regular starting 11 every season. We reaped the rewards and the whole decade was the highlight of the clubs history for the last 50 years. Loved the first three years of Hughes. But each year another huth or a whelan or a Walters was let go and before you know it its too late and we're all here scratching our heads wondering how it happened. We didn’t miss Huth though and Walters/Whelan were shot. Letting them go wasn’t the issue, in Walters/Whelan’s case it was replacing them so poorly, as you say. Yes, I meant losing that type of player. Losing what Walters and whelan offered and replacing them with jese and imbula was it? I personally don't think we ever replaced Huth and he never should have gone. He won the league the season we let him go. I liked muniesa but muni, wolly, zouma and indi weren't half the defender Huth was even if you combined them all together. And quite frankly Shawcross was never at the same level again once that partnership ended. Must dash, matchday time now. Have a good match one and all.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 11, 2023 13:11:42 GMT
We didn’t miss Huth though and Walters/Whelan were shot. Letting them go wasn’t the issue, in Walters/Whelan’s case it was replacing them so poorly, as you say. Yes, I meant losing that type of player. Losing what Walters and whelan offered and replacing them with jese and imbula was it? I personally don't think we ever replaced Huth and he never should have gone. He won the league the season we let him go. I liked muniesa but muni, wolly, zouma and indi weren't half the defender Huth was even if you combined them all together. And quite frankly Shawcross was never at the same level again once that partnership ended. Must dash, matchday time now. Have a good match one and all. Yes but he was a better fit for that Leicester side and how they set up than he was with us, and was struggling to adapt to the change in style. We actually improved as a team in his absence. Enjoy the game, let’s hope the season starts here.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 11, 2023 13:42:30 GMT
Who’s “moaning on” about it? I specifically brought it up in the context of taking a balanced view and being generally charitable about his reign, in response to a supposedly honest enquiry about how he split the fans. But I’m clearly talking to people who want to whitewash any negatives and pretend every single thing he did was perfect. Even he admitted the Valencia decision was a mistake ffs. I’d use a stronger word, but I’ll take it. Yes and mistakes are fine as there’s not a single person who hasn’t made one. Things were far from perfect especially away from home when we took some hammerings with hardly any shots on goal. Tp transformed this club I have been supporting since mid 70s which for me has been the best period. I think some need to have a little more respect for him and what he did. I’ve read on other thread’s people including yourself banging on about he’s a tosser for what he did in Valencia and would never forgive him. I honestly feel sorry for those who went to experience what I’m sure would be one of the highlights supporting stoke. Yes the fan base was split but for the life in me can’t understand why. As a club before we got to the prem we never expected. I bet the ones who dint like him were still on the pitch when we got promoted, went to semi final and final, Going to Valencia and others and beating the top teams at home. Firstly I very much doubt you’ll find any instances of me calling him a “tosser”. Valencia was probably the most enjoyable and memorable event of my football-watching life - it would have been whether we’d won eight-nil or lost ten-one. I’ll always be grateful to TP for getting us there and giving us the opportunity to experience that. That has absolutely zilch to do with his subsequent decision to basically throw the tie by taking the stiffs, which was a disgrace and blatantly contemptuous to the fans who’d responded to his calls to save their money and get out there in numbers. At the time it felt like something approaching a betrayal.. maybe if you’d been there and experienced the shell-shocked mood among the fans when that news broke you’d understand, I dunno. The team he put out actually played very well and did us proud, all things considered - arguably better than the first team would have at the time. Another thing that often gets mentioned that has absolutely zero weight in the analysis of his decision to play them. He didn’t play them because he thought they’d be better. I fail to understand how people struggle with this duality so much. People enjoy away days in terrible seasons all the time, it doesn’t suddenly mean the team and manager are perfect.
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Post by swampySCFC on Feb 12, 2023 11:40:09 GMT
There is a tendency to over engineer things. No Manager will ever be perfect whether its Ferguson, Robson, Shankly, Clough..........
The bottom line is did I ever think I would see Stoke in the top league again?? No. Did I ever think we would reach a cup final again, no. For all the "Pulisball" comments we beat the top teams in the country regularly, the ground was full everything was purposeful.
Thank you TP it will be a long time before we taste that kind of success again if ever
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Post by basingstokie on Feb 12, 2023 13:56:39 GMT
That's not quite correct. I can assure you there were gripes about his stating line-ups EVERY single week. Its amazing how history can be re-written though. It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss. This is literally 100% true
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 13, 2023 8:04:45 GMT
It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss. This is literally 100% true Apart from the Wilko/Dicko stuff from the first season, as he tried to replace them throughout (their replacements getting injured actually helped us get over the line in 07/08) and the Lawrence stuff as discussed earlier. That was part of the reason why we was divisive, he often seemed to discard what was working because it was too attacking for him and revert to comfort blankets. Still probably the best Stoke manager in my lifetime for me, for all that, yet equally I was relieved when he was ultimately moved on, as it was time for a change.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 13, 2023 8:40:13 GMT
Yes and mistakes are fine as there’s not a single person who hasn’t made one. Things were far from perfect especially away from home when we took some hammerings with hardly any shots on goal. Tp transformed this club I have been supporting since mid 70s which for me has been the best period. I think some need to have a little more respect for him and what he did. I’ve read on other thread’s people including yourself banging on about he’s a tosser for what he did in Valencia and would never forgive him. I honestly feel sorry for those who went to experience what I’m sure would be one of the highlights supporting stoke. Yes the fan base was split but for the life in me can’t understand why. As a club before we got to the prem we never expected. I bet the ones who dint like him were still on the pitch when we got promoted, went to semi final and final, Going to Valencia and others and beating the top teams at home. Firstly I very much doubt you’ll find any instances of me calling him a “tosser”. Valencia was probably the most enjoyable and memorable event of my football-watching life - it would have been whether we’d won eight-nil or lost ten-one. I’ll always be grateful to TP for getting us there and giving us the opportunity to experience that. That has absolutely zilch to do with his subsequent decision to basically throw the tie by taking the stiffs, which was a disgrace and blatantly contemptuous to the fans who’d responded to his calls to save their money and get out there in numbers. At the time it felt like something approaching a betrayal.. maybe if you’d been there and experienced the shell-shocked mood among the fans when that news broke you’d understand, I dunno. The team he put out actually played very well and did us proud, all things considered - arguably better than the first team would have at the time. Another thing that often gets mentioned that has absolutely zero weight in the analysis of his decision to play them. He didn’t play them because he thought they’d be better. I fail to understand how people struggle with this duality so much. People enjoy away days in terrible seasons all the time, it doesn’t suddenly mean the team and manager are perfect. I don't seem to get anywhere near as wound up as some folk over Valencia, which seems to form a large part of why some people hate Pulis so much. We were 1-0 down after the home leg against one of the big clubs in Europe at the time, nobody gave us much of a chance at their place and, understandably in my opinion, he chose to rest some of the players that were going to be involved against Swansea three days later - a game we won, which ended a four match losing streak in the Premier League. (We won the next match too. Two results which may have contributed to keeping us up, given that we subsequently won just one of the remaining 11 games after those two). I agree that, had Pulis announced he'd be taking the stiffs, a lot of people might have saved themselves some money by not going. And that's a fair criticism, although you'd hope that given the first leg result, the quality of the opposition and the priorities of the PL it didn't come as that much of a surprise. I'd have still gone regardless. Probably the only time I'll see Stoke away in Europe in my lifetime, so I was going to enjoy it whatever and in the end the team he played did really well, although the difference in quality was obvious over both legs.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 13, 2023 8:54:28 GMT
Firstly I very much doubt you’ll find any instances of me calling him a “tosser”. Valencia was probably the most enjoyable and memorable event of my football-watching life - it would have been whether we’d won eight-nil or lost ten-one. I’ll always be grateful to TP for getting us there and giving us the opportunity to experience that. That has absolutely zilch to do with his subsequent decision to basically throw the tie by taking the stiffs, which was a disgrace and blatantly contemptuous to the fans who’d responded to his calls to save their money and get out there in numbers. At the time it felt like something approaching a betrayal.. maybe if you’d been there and experienced the shell-shocked mood among the fans when that news broke you’d understand, I dunno. The team he put out actually played very well and did us proud, all things considered - arguably better than the first team would have at the time. Another thing that often gets mentioned that has absolutely zero weight in the analysis of his decision to play them. He didn’t play them because he thought they’d be better. I fail to understand how people struggle with this duality so much. People enjoy away days in terrible seasons all the time, it doesn’t suddenly mean the team and manager are perfect. I don't seem to get anywhere near as wound up as some folk over Valencia, which seems to form a large part of why some people hate Pulis so much. We were 1-0 down after the home leg against one of the big clubs in Europe at the time, nobody gave us much of a chance at their place and, understandably in my opinion, he chose to rest some of the players that were going to be involved against Swansea three days later - a game we won, which ended a four match losing streak in the Premier League. (We won the next match too. Two results which may have contributed to keeping us up, given that we subsequently won just one of the remaining 11 games after those two). I agree that, had Pulis announced he'd be taking the stiffs, a lot of people might have saved themselves some money by not going. And that's a fair criticism, although you'd hope that given the first leg result, the quality of the opposition and the priorities of the PL it didn't come as that much of a surprise. I'd have still gone regardless. Probably the only time I'll see Stoke away in Europe in my lifetime, so I was going to enjoy it whatever and in the end the team he played did really well, although the difference in quality was obvious over both legs. You actually identify what for me is the key issue though. We shouldn't have even been talking about relegation. Just the spring before we were playing our best football for a good 30 years and that summer we then spent our biggest ever single-window transfer budget. We only needed something like another 12-14 points and we had another 13 games remaining. It was ludicrous to press the panic button and essentially throw the tie at that point, and that he felt the need to do that, and that we only won four games after new year's day in the league that season, was an indictment of his management and the first real signs that he'd started to lose it.
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Post by tuum on Mar 17, 2023 4:31:28 GMT
Just found this on Youtube. Not sure if it has been linked already and I have not watched the full interview but I was intriqued by what he said around 5:00 into this ineterview. Basically,since retirement, he has done some consulting work providing guidance and advice to footballl clubs and other sports. On 5:00 he says that the current situation at many clubs is that the direct line between Manaager and Chairman is now not available due to the layers of management in between. Previously he only had to deal with the chairman's secretary. With the benefit of hindsight, if he were starting out in management today he would bring with him a guy to sit above him and to deal with all the non-football stuff(let's call hime a Technical Director TD for want of a better word). He believes that if the TD was part of his team then he would fight a bit harder for him if he knew that if the manager got the sack then he got the sack. Unlike today where the TD would probably see off a few managers without his own position being threatended. I can see both sides of this argument but what intrigued me is that this set up looks similar to what we currently have at Stoke with Ricky Martin ( a friend of Neil's) representing Alex Neil to Simon King and John Coates? It may be slightly different in that RM may also be looking after the Youth Academy as well so not a given that if Neil is sacked then RM goes as well but I would argue that RM's relationship with AN suggest's that he might fight AN's corner a little bit more than Scholes did for Pulis (& possibly Hughes). I ownder if TP has been offering Consultancy Services to the Coates' family? A quick look at the club hierarchy shows about 13 positions under Club Management who will all, presumably, have an input to Richard Smith via Ricky Martin and Simon King and then to Peter/John Coates. First Team and Youth Academy are a separate section of the Org Chart. It's a tricky business running a football club!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 17, 2023 6:20:01 GMT
Just found this on Youtube. Not sure if it has been linked already and I have not watched the full interview but I was intriqued by what he said around 5:00 into this ineterview. Basically,since retirement, he has done some consulting work providing guidance and advice to footballl clubs and other sports. On 5:00 he says that the current situation at many clubs is that the direct line between Manaager and Chairman is now not available due to the layers of management in between. Previously he only had to deal with the chairman's secretary. With the benefit of hindsight, if he were starting out in management today he would bring with him a guy to sit above him and to deal with all the non-football stuff(let's call hime a Technical Director TD for want of a better word). He believes that if the TD was part of his team then he would fight a bit harder for him if he knew that if the manager got the sack then he got the sack. Unlike today where the TD would probably see off a few managers without his own position being threatended. I can see both sides of this argument but what intrigued me is that this set up looks similar to what we currently have at Stoke with Ricky Martin ( a friend of Neil's) representing Alex Neil to Simon King and John Coates? It may be slightly different in that RM may also be looking after the Youth Academy as well so not a given that if Neil is sacked then RM goes as well but I would argue that RM's relationship with AN suggest's that he might fight AN's corner a little bit more than Scholes did for Pulis (& possibly Hughes). I ownder if TP has been offering Consultancy Services to the Coates' family? A quick look at the club hierarchy shows about 13 positions under Club Management who will all, presumably, have an input to Richard Smith via Ricky Martin and Simon King and then to Peter/John Coates. First Team and Youth Academy are a separate section of the Org Chart. It's a tricky business running a football club! The manager really shouldn’t be appointing the TD, it flies totally in the face of how it’s supposed to work. Pulis and Hughes were both backed to the absolute hilt the majority of the time they were here.
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Post by milky on Mar 17, 2023 7:22:37 GMT
That's not quite correct. I can assure you there were gripes about his stating line-ups EVERY single week. Its amazing how history can be re-written though. It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss. Don't want to sound pedantic or owt but I'd question if your Prem first 11 even actually appeared together. Griffin was virtually bombed out after the Fuller incident in late December and Beattie and Etherington didn't rock up until January.
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Post by st3mark on Mar 17, 2023 20:02:02 GMT
It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss. Don't want to sound pedantic or owt but I'd question if your Prem first 11 even actually appeared together. Griffin was virtually bombed out after the Fuller incident in late December and Beattie and Etherington didn't rock up until January. It is a bit pedantic lol. In that case I'd make the same point but say that Cresswell and sidibe were in until January and that Higginbotham was in after Griffin got slapped. Either way, you could predict the team with ease because of the consistency.
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 17, 2023 20:15:15 GMT
Just found this on Youtube. Not sure if it has been linked already and I have not watched the full interview but I was intriqued by what he said around 5:00 into this ineterview. Basically,since retirement, he has done some consulting work providing guidance and advice to footballl clubs and other sports. On 5:00 he says that the current situation at many clubs is that the direct line between Manaager and Chairman is now not available due to the layers of management in between. Previously he only had to deal with the chairman's secretary. With the benefit of hindsight, if he were starting out in management today he would bring with him a guy to sit above him and to deal with all the non-football stuff(let's call hime a Technical Director TD for want of a better word). He believes that if the TD was part of his team then he would fight a bit harder for him if he knew that if the manager got the sack then he got the sack. Unlike today where the TD would probably see off a few managers without his own position being threatended. I can see both sides of this argument but what intrigued me is that this set up looks similar to what we currently have at Stoke with Ricky Martin ( a friend of Neil's) representing Alex Neil to Simon King and John Coates? It may be slightly different in that RM may also be looking after the Youth Academy as well so not a given that if Neil is sacked then RM goes as well but I would argue that RM's relationship with AN suggest's that he might fight AN's corner a little bit more than Scholes did for Pulis (& possibly Hughes). I ownder if TP has been offering Consultancy Services to the Coates' family? A quick look at the club hierarchy shows about 13 positions under Club Management who will all, presumably, have an input to Richard Smith via Ricky Martin and Simon King and then to Peter/John Coates. First Team and Youth Academy are a separate section of the Org Chart. It's a tricky business running a football club! The manager really shouldn’t be appointing the TD, it flies totally in the face of how it’s supposed to work. Pulis and Hughes were both backed to the absolute hilt the majority of the time they were here. I agree. If the TD is appointed by the manager then what's the point.
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Post by upthefud on Mar 17, 2023 21:06:05 GMT
Too many points to quote or speak about so I won’t bother.
I’ll just add I completely agree with St3mark’s views on the matter
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Post by generationex on Mar 17, 2023 21:31:43 GMT
That Valencia thing is just a desperate attempt to find a stick to beat him with. We were better in the return leg (AND stayed up).
What else can they complain about in respect of our last 16 European Campaign? (European Campaign! What?!)
I think it’s know as ‘whatabouterry’ in the digital age.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 17, 2023 22:46:12 GMT
That Valencia thing is just a desperate attempt to find a stick to beat him with. We were better in the return leg (AND stayed up). What else can they complain about in respect of our last 16 European Campaign? (European Campaign! What?!) I think it’s know as ‘whatabouterry’ in the digital age. It really isn’t, he didn’t even fill the bench and he tried to throw that game. There was no need to do it and ‘staying up’ shouldn’t even have been the remotest concern that season and it was rank bad management that it was.
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Post by robwahlmann on Mar 17, 2023 23:16:53 GMT
TP probably gave me the best time as a Stoke supporter!
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Post by themistocles on Aug 30, 2023 19:33:59 GMT
Under the cosh with dicko a few years back.
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Post by cvillestokie on Aug 30, 2023 19:35:56 GMT
That's not quite correct. I can assure you there were gripes about his stating line-ups EVERY single week. Its amazing how history can be re-written though. It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss. How many games did we play Lawrence, Etherington, Beattie and Fuller? More often that not, if we played Etherington, we’d be subjected to Delap on the right.
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Post by st3mark on Aug 30, 2023 20:20:24 GMT
It is indeed, you're trying to re-write it as though there were questions about his line up every week when his team pretty much picked itself every week. Promotion season virtually every game Simo Wilko Cort Shawcross Dicko Lawrence Delap Whelan Crewell Fuller Mama 1st season in prem Sorensen Wilko Faye Shawcross Griffin Lawrence Whelan Delap Etherington Beattie Fuller It went on and on, season after season he always had consistently the same starting line up. I knew the team on Thursday. That's why he's one of the best managers we ever had. A clear plan with the players to suit his plan. There's questions to be asked about our team sheets these days. A lottery every week. That's why we are in turmoil. If we were to name the stating eleven of our own club now nobody would be able to. Including our manager. Yet most stoke fans could reel off the regular starting eleven of all of TPs seasons and that's because his teams picked themselves. Bliss. How many games did we play Lawrence, Etherington, Beattie and Fuller? More often that not, if we played Etherington, we’d be subjected to Delap on the right. Absolutely no idea how many times they played together mate youd have to research it. I just typed three fixtures in Google that I remembered 1 of them scoring in and they were all playing. www.skysports.com/football/stoke-vs-blackburn/teams/17926www.transfermarkt.co.uk/hull-city_stoke-city/index/spielbericht/943637www.11v11.com/matches/stoke-city-v-wigan-athletic-16-may-2009-285148/Interestingly there appears to have been a lot of defensive chopping and changing over that month which seems unusual. The point I was making at the time, however long ago that post was from, was that the team picked itself easily. Whereas the teams we have had in recent years its been chaos. Putting delap on the right like you recall is to me a tactical tweak, which I would expect from any manager.
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