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Post by Pugsley on Feb 10, 2023 18:21:27 GMT
He has split the fanbase at every club he has been, whether that's with his style of play to his digs at 'herberts' Pugs. I’m not really interested in other clubs. Let’s stick to his tenure with us. My question (a truly inquisitive one) was how “he” split the supporter base. Was it based on “The Truth” as being the result of some form of independent investigation into a particular incident or set of incidents, Someone else’s truth based on what they say “must be truth” or is it simply down to differing opinion? Perhaps I’m in a different place and have different experiences but all of the long standing supporters who I know personally and those who I know from the pub won’t have a word said against him. I’m certainly not of the opinion he should be back at the helm. I am and will remain steadfast in my opinion that he’s one of four managers in my lifetime that provided great times down at the Vic and the Brit. A grateful thanks to all. If you seriously believe he didn't split the fan base then you've been living on the moon. His contempt for supporters was breathtaking. I'd argue he is one of the biggest bottle jobs in football.
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Post by marcofstoke on Feb 10, 2023 18:39:25 GMT
I’m confused about the Patrick Vieira story? Surely he’d left Arsenal well before we got to the Premier League?
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Post by RF10 on Feb 10, 2023 19:47:02 GMT
I’m confused about the Patrick Vieira story? Surely he’d left Arsenal well before we got to the Premier League? Yeah he left Arsenal in 2005. In did actually play against us with Man City in 2010 though. I doubt it's a fully fabricated story but like you said confusing to say the least. I was actually surprised no one questioned him on it.
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Post by generationex on Feb 10, 2023 19:58:23 GMT
Pugs. I’m not really interested in other clubs. Let’s stick to his tenure with us. My question (a truly inquisitive one) was how “he” split the supporter base. Was it based on “The Truth” as being the result of some form of independent investigation into a particular incident or set of incidents, Someone else’s truth based on what they say “must be truth” or is it simply down to differing opinion? Perhaps I’m in a different place and have different experiences but all of the long standing supporters who I know personally and those who I know from the pub won’t have a word said against him. I’m certainly not of the opinion he should be back at the helm. I am and will remain steadfast in my opinion that he’s one of four managers in my lifetime that provided great times down at the Vic and the Brit. A grateful thanks to all. If you seriously believe he didn't split the fan base then you've been living on the moon. His contempt for supporters was breathtaking. I'd argue he is one of the biggest bottle jobs in football. You also used to accuse him of being lazy, which somewhat undermines your credibility on this particular subject I’d suggest!
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Post by st3mark on Feb 10, 2023 20:00:10 GMT
I’m confused about the Patrick Vieira story? Surely he’d left Arsenal well before we got to the Premier League? Yeah he left Arsenal in 2005. In did actually play against us with Man City in 2010 though. I doubt it's a fully fabricated story but like you said confusing to say the least. I was actually surprised no one questioned him on it. I imagine Viera was using the term 'we' as an Arsenal man rather than an Arsenal player. Think TP has worded it in a way that made it seem like Viera was involved in the sessions and the matches rather than just hearing about it from his Arsenal pals.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 10, 2023 20:16:17 GMT
Pugs. I’m not really interested in other clubs. Let’s stick to his tenure with us. My question (a truly inquisitive one) was how “he” split the supporter base. Was it based on “The Truth” as being the result of some form of independent investigation into a particular incident or set of incidents, Someone else’s truth based on what they say “must be truth” or is it simply down to differing opinion? Perhaps I’m in a different place and have different experiences but all of the long standing supporters who I know personally and those who I know from the pub won’t have a word said against him. I’m certainly not of the opinion he should be back at the helm. I am and will remain steadfast in my opinion that he’s one of four managers in my lifetime that provided great times down at the Vic and the Brit. A grateful thanks to all. If you seriously believe he didn't split the fan base then you've been living on the moon. His contempt for supporters was breathtaking. I'd argue he is one of the biggest bottle jobs in football. Pugs you’ve made three separate statements there. I challenge you to explain each with fact…..not opinion. Crack on
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Post by greenhoff on Feb 10, 2023 21:02:13 GMT
I don't know how any stoke fan couldn't enjoy that podcast. He's the mesiah! Without TP there wouldn't have been any premier league football, no FA cup final or European adventure! Pains me to see the state that we are in now!!! Because some people can suck the joy out of anything. I started watching Stoke in 1974. The first year in The Prem was as good as anything Ive experienced. Brilliant times roared on by a magnificent crowd. Absolutely fantastic being in the South Stand before it got infiltrated by coked up knobheads in later seasons. Tony Pulis was instrumental in bringing those days to Stoke City and for that I'll always be thankful.
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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 10, 2023 21:20:46 GMT
That's a great assessment to be fair, other than for me, I can't hold any grudges against him anymore. Towards the end of his reign here I hated what we had become, his football had regressed so much that even when Rory was finished we still had players trying to replicate his throw, and even when Rory's throw had become ineffective we had Rory himself trying to wing it into the box from inside his own half. His tactics became a joke and we as a team had become predictable and a real bore to watch and we were definitely going to get relegated sooner rather than later if he had stayed. Having said all that, (and I'm definitely guilty of not appreciating it enough at the time in hindsight) I look back now and can only really remember the good times because he gave me some of the best Stoke City supporting moments of my life. That first season in the Premeier League will never be equalled in my lifetime, especially at home, and for that alone I find it impossible to hold any kind of grudge against a manager who gave me those memories, and that's without even mentioning the promotion season, the FA Cup, and the European games and the modern day Stoke City legends he signed for us. Regardless of people's personal opinion of the man himself or his footballing ethos, Tony Pulis IS a Stoke City legend and in my opinion he fully deserves that title. Yes grudges was probably the wrong phrase. It took me a good while to forgive and forget Valencia but I did, in the end. He even expressed some mild contrition about it himself at one point I think. Not that it remotely affected my enjoyment of those few days anyway 🥳 Why keep moaning on about it then. I take it you didn’t have a good time in that fab stadium. I couldn’t afford to go at the time so I’d say your a lucky one
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 10, 2023 22:12:24 GMT
Yes grudges was probably the wrong phrase. It took me a good while to forgive and forget Valencia but I did, in the end. He even expressed some mild contrition about it himself at one point I think. Not that it remotely affected my enjoyment of those few days anyway 🥳 Why keep moaning on about it then. I take it you didn’t have a good time in that fab stadium. I couldn’t afford to go at the time so I’d say your a lucky one The whole “occasion” was something special, never to be forgotten. It’s a shame you couldn’t make it.
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Post by RF10 on Feb 10, 2023 23:05:04 GMT
Yeah he left Arsenal in 2005. In did actually play against us with Man City in 2010 though. I doubt it's a fully fabricated story but like you said confusing to say the least. I was actually surprised no one questioned him on it. I imagine Viera was using the term 'we' as an Arsenal man rather than an Arsenal player. Think TP has worded it in a way that made it seem like Viera was involved in the sessions and the matches rather than just hearing about it from his Arsenal pals. That's how I interterpreted it too.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 10, 2023 23:07:50 GMT
You don't know what you have until it's gone.
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Post by st3mark on Feb 10, 2023 23:25:30 GMT
You don't know what you have until it's gone. I always knew what we had with him. My naivety was that I thought it would last forever. From little, to megson, to gudjon, to Cotteril, to Pulis, to boskamp (at times), back to Pulis and even then to Hughes I always felt like we were progressing. Improving slowly but surely getting to that next level each time. A few big errors by hughes/the board/the transfer team undid 20 years of progress to a degree. Well to a large degree in my view.
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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 10, 2023 23:27:49 GMT
Why keep moaning on about it then. I take it you didn’t have a good time in that fab stadium. I couldn’t afford to go at the time so I’d say your a lucky one The whole “occasion” was something special, never to be forgotten. It’s a shame you couldn’t make it. Yes it would have been a trip in a lifetime mate. Me and my lad was talking about it today. If only things were different back then but I did see Valencia at home. TP is a legend full stop
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 10, 2023 23:39:24 GMT
You don't know what you have until it's gone. I always knew what we had with him. My naivety was that I thought it would last forever. From little, to megson, to gudjon, to Cotteril, to Pulis, to boskamp (at times), back to Pulis and even then to Hughes I always felt like we were progressing. Improving slowly but surely getting to that next level each time. A few big errors by hughes/the board/the transfer team undid 20 years of progress to a degree. Well to a large degree in my view. Yes. I have to admit I did hate some of the TP tactics and football.. But probably had a "Damascus" moment a few years ago and realised just what this guy had done with our Club. I've been watching since 1964 so seen a few golden moments but Bolton and the Wenger saga are up there. Been said probably zillion times but in my opinion the start of the demise is the chasing and subsequent signing of Berahino.
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Post by st3mark on Feb 10, 2023 23:55:15 GMT
I always knew what we had with him. My naivety was that I thought it would last forever. From little, to megson, to gudjon, to Cotteril, to Pulis, to boskamp (at times), back to Pulis and even then to Hughes I always felt like we were progressing. Improving slowly but surely getting to that next level each time. A few big errors by hughes/the board/the transfer team undid 20 years of progress to a degree. Well to a large degree in my view. Yes. I have to admit I did hate some of the TP tactics and football.. But probably had a "Damascus" moment a few years ago and realised just what this guy had done with our Club. I've been watching since 1964 so seen a few golden moments but Bolton and the Wenger saga are up there. Been said probably zillion times but in my opinion the start of the demise is the chasing and subsequent signing of Berahino. I adored TP from the start, the progress was so evident. My only gripe with TP was by the third season in the the Prem although our home performances were still bang on, we parked the bus virtually every away game. The credit I give Hughes is that he tried to win every game both home and away. His fault was that he thought talent was enough. He didn't respect how important the grit of Huth, whelan and walters was. The result was we then began to lose all of the games home and away. From Walters to Berahino is a prime example of a top pro being replaced by a loser.
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 11, 2023 0:01:42 GMT
If you seriously believe he didn't split the fan base then you've been living on the moon. His contempt for supporters was breathtaking. I'd argue he is one of the biggest bottle jobs in football. Pugs you’ve made three separate statements there. I challenge you to explain each with fact…..not opinion. Crack on His approach to football. That's a fact, some people loved the pragmatism others loathed it. For all the success nobody sung his name, literally NOBODY. Valencia. Also accusing supporters of leaking tactics. All the 'aaaarrrd work bollocks. Bonus games. Assembled a cracking team playing decent football and then shat his pants at the growing expectation. Engineered his way out out of Palace when he won Manager of the year playing some cracking stuff with flair players like Zaha. Lost a playoff final despite being 2 up in the 90th minute.
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Post by st3mark on Feb 11, 2023 0:16:38 GMT
Pugs you’ve made three separate statements there. I challenge you to explain each with fact…..not opinion. Crack on His approach to football. That's a fact, some people loved the pragmatism others loathed it. For all the success nobody sung his name, literally NOBODY. Valencia. Also accusing supporters of leaking tactics. All the 'aaaarrrd work bollocks. Bonus games. Assembled a cracking team playing decent football and then shat his pants at the growing expectation. Engineered his way out out of Palace when he won Manager of the year playing some cracking stuff with flair players like Zaha. Lost a playoff final despite being 2 up in the 90th minute. Its clearly love hate. We all still argue about it now. It's love for me. Cresswell Lawrence Sidibe Fuller Etherington Lawrence Beattie Fuller Etherington Pennant Jones Fuller Etherington Pennant Crouch Walters 4 examples of some of the best, most attacking, most cohesive and effective attacks we've had since the 70s. Loved every bloody minute of it.
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Post by canadianmoose on Feb 11, 2023 0:29:48 GMT
That 2011 season will live long in the memory for me.
For that and the promotion season along with the first back in the premier league, Pulis should be given all the credit going.
The fact that wearing a Stoke jacket in Canadian and US airports was suddenly being recognized says it all. Pulis made that happen, especially when we got to the cup final. Having every game available on TV was actually possible and we were regularly punching above our weight despite the hate.
I had the pleasure of being home for the Arsenal game not long before the FA cup final. I watched us totally outplay Arsenal and the atmosphere was electric.
Thanks Tony. Enjoy your retirement.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 11, 2023 1:13:43 GMT
His approach to football. That's a fact, some people loved the pragmatism others loathed it. For all the success nobody sung his name, literally NOBODY. Valencia. Also accusing supporters of leaking tactics. All the 'aaaarrrd work bollocks. Bonus games. Assembled a cracking team playing decent football and then shat his pants at the growing expectation. Engineered his way out out of Palace when he won Manager of the year playing some cracking stuff with flair players like Zaha. Lost a playoff final despite being 2 up in the 90th minute. Its clearly love hate. We all still argue about it now. It's love for me. Cresswell Lawrence Sidibe Fuller Etherington Lawrence Beattie Fuller Etherington Pennant Jones Fuller Etherington Pennant Crouch Walters 4 examples of some of the best, most attacking, most cohesive and effective attacks we've had since the 70s. Loved every bloody minute of it. I don’t think Jones and Fuller played together very often. Wasn’t Fuller coming back from injuries etc and replaced by Walters? Walters and Jones was our best attacking duo in the Prem in my opinion.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 11, 2023 2:35:06 GMT
Yes grudges was probably the wrong phrase. It took me a good while to forgive and forget Valencia but I did, in the end. He even expressed some mild contrition about it himself at one point I think. Not that it remotely affected my enjoyment of those few days anyway 🥳 Why keep moaning on about it then. I take it you didn’t have a good time in that fab stadium. I couldn’t afford to go at the time so I’d say your a lucky one Who’s “moaning on” about it? I specifically brought it up in the context of taking a balanced view and being generally charitable about his reign, in response to a supposedly honest enquiry about how he split the fans. But I’m clearly talking to people who want to whitewash any negatives and pretend every single thing he did was perfect. Even he admitted the Valencia decision was a mistake ffs. I’d use a stronger word, but I’ll take it.
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Post by stokieinlondon on Feb 11, 2023 4:09:01 GMT
Great podcast. Great manager. Great man.
I’m a huge fan of TP, and I understand that some people didn’t like his tactics (you know, the ones that got us promotion and kept us up - god knows why he didn’t try and play total football against Arsenal?) but I thoroughly enjoyed watching Stoke in those early years of the premier league.
And he’s a nice bloke too. No effing and jeffing like most on this podcast (including Macari) and he speaks well of stoke fans and stoke on Trent. When paddy power paid out and he made it his business to get the people of stoke on Trent to be tribal and almost offended by that. What a genius - the master of getting a team to die for each other.
But I get that people prefer to hold some anger and hatred towards him - so you guys crack on. Maybe one day you’ll cheer up a bit.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Feb 11, 2023 7:56:19 GMT
Been watching/listening to a few episodes of UTC over the last few days. The Gerry Taggart and Bruce Grobbelaar ones are worth watching.
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Post by greenhoff on Feb 11, 2023 8:02:22 GMT
Been watching/listening to a few episodes of UTC over the last few days. The Gerry Taggart and Bruce Grobbelaar ones are worth watching. The Mark Crossley one is brilliant
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Post by st3mark on Feb 11, 2023 8:33:04 GMT
Its clearly love hate. We all still argue about it now. It's love for me. Cresswell Lawrence Sidibe Fuller Etherington Lawrence Beattie Fuller Etherington Pennant Jones Fuller Etherington Pennant Crouch Walters 4 examples of some of the best, most attacking, most cohesive and effective attacks we've had since the 70s. Loved every bloody minute of it. I don’t think Jones and Fuller played together very often. Wasn’t Fuller coming back from injuries etc and replaced by Walters? Walters and Jones was our best attacking duo in the Prem in my opinion. Yes walters played a lot that season. What a player, hardest working footballer I've ever seen.
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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 11, 2023 8:54:42 GMT
Why keep moaning on about it then. I take it you didn’t have a good time in that fab stadium. I couldn’t afford to go at the time so I’d say your a lucky one Who’s “moaning on” about it? I specifically brought it up in the context of taking a balanced view and being generally charitable about his reign, in response to a supposedly honest enquiry about how he split the fans. But I’m clearly talking to people who want to whitewash any negatives and pretend every single thing he did was perfect. Even he admitted the Valencia decision was a mistake ffs. I’d use a stronger word, but I’ll take it. Yes and mistakes are fine as there’s not a single person who hasn’t made one. Things were far from perfect especially away from home when we took some hammerings with hardly any shots on goal. Tp transformed this club I have been supporting since mid 70s which for me has been the best period. I think some need to have a little more respect for him and what he did. I’ve read on other thread’s people including yourself banging on about he’s a tosser for what he did in Valencia and would never forgive him. I honestly feel sorry for those who went to experience what I’m sure would be one of the highlights supporting stoke. Yes the fan base was split but for the life in me can’t understand why. As a club before we got to the prem we never expected. I bet the ones who dint like him were still on the pitch when we got promoted, went to semi final and final, Going to Valencia and others and beating the top teams at home.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 11, 2023 9:24:39 GMT
Pugs you’ve made three separate statements there. I challenge you to explain each with fact…..not opinion. Crack on His approach to football. That's a fact, some people loved the pragmatism others loathed it. For all the success nobody sung his name, literally NOBODY. Valencia. Also accusing supporters of leaking tactics. All the 'aaaarrrd work bollocks. Bonus games. Assembled a cracking team playing decent football and then shat his pants at the growing expectation. Engineered his way out out of Palace when he won Manager of the year playing some cracking stuff with flair players like Zaha. Lost a playoff final despite being 2 up in the 90th minute. His approach to football that was very successful for SCFC……OK Valencia, did you go? I’ll defy anyone who did who says they didn’t enjoy the whole experience/occasion…… OK Every successful team and individual player…….works aaaard……….FACT…….OK Bonus games. A term (or similar) used by football supporters across the country every week, every season …..OK Shat his pants…….🙄🙄🙄🙄……OK Crystal Palace?………..🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄…..OK
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 11, 2023 11:05:48 GMT
Great podcast. Great manager. Great man. I’m a huge fan of TP, and I understand that some people didn’t like his tactics (you know, the ones that got us promotion and kept us up - god knows why he didn’t try and play total football against Arsenal?) but I thoroughly enjoyed watching Stoke in those early years of the premier league. And he’s a nice bloke too. No effing and jeffing like most on this podcast (including Macari) and he speaks well of stoke fans and stoke on Trent. When paddy power paid out and he made it his business to get the people of stoke on Trent to be tribal and almost offended by that. What a genius - the master of getting a team to die for each other. But I get that people prefer to hold some anger and hatred towards him - so you guys crack on. Maybe one day you’ll cheer up a bit. I’ll always appreciate the great stuff he did and giving me some of the best days I had as a Stoke fan. What frustrates me about his time is how he unnecessarily dismantled what he’d built when we had a great chance to really push on. There was no reason for those final two seasons to pan out the way they did, he just got it so wrong. But all things come to an end. Tonnes of respect for the man himself, what drives me mad is the chodes on here who insist of rewriting history or acting like everything bad that happened at the end was everyone else’s fault but his and that his departure was some kind of stab in the back that led to it all going wrong for us. It’s demonstrably not true, can easily be shown as such, it’s weird and yet they cannot and will not see it.
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 11, 2023 11:16:57 GMT
I miss having a manager where our gripes were about what starting line ups he picked during Eurpoean football matches. Great times. That's not quite correct. I can assure you there were gripes about his stating line-ups EVERY single week. Its amazing how history can be re-written though.
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Post by scfc75 on Feb 11, 2023 11:19:38 GMT
Great podcast. Great manager. Great man. I’m a huge fan of TP, and I understand that some people didn’t like his tactics (you know, the ones that got us promotion and kept us up - god knows why he didn’t try and play total football against Arsenal?) but I thoroughly enjoyed watching Stoke in those early years of the premier league. And he’s a nice bloke too. No effing and jeffing like most on this podcast (including Macari) and he speaks well of stoke fans and stoke on Trent. When paddy power paid out and he made it his business to get the people of stoke on Trent to be tribal and almost offended by that. What a genius - the master of getting a team to die for each other. But I get that people prefer to hold some anger and hatred towards him - so you guys crack on. Maybe one day you’ll cheer up a bit. I’ll always appreciate the great stuff he did and giving me some of the best days I had as a Stoke fan. What frustrates me about his time is how he unnecessarily dismantled what he’d built when we had a great chance to really push on. There was no reason for those final two seasons to pan out the way they did, he just got it so wrong. But all things come to an end. Tonnes of respect for the man himself, what drives me mad is the chodes on here who insist of rewriting history or acting like everything bad that happened at the end was everyone else’s fault but his and that his departure was some kind of stab in the back that led to it all going wrong for us. It’s demonstrably not true, can easily be shown as such, it’s weird and yet they cannot and will not see it. Good summary and a bonus point for use of the word chodes.
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Post by peekay67 on Feb 11, 2023 11:45:47 GMT
Big up Pulis. Only manager (and Delap) who made throw in's exciting. Made the Brit a feared place to visit for opposing teams. It was not pretty, but was effective. And we got to see many of the worlds best players.
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