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Post by Gawa on Nov 28, 2024 22:28:05 GMT
The problem for me is on one side we talk about Great Britain and the British empire and how great it is for a small country to do so much. Yet at the same time we say how bad immigration is and it destroys cultures and lands... So did Britain destroy America, Australia, South Africa and Canada as us immigrants came over and destroyed the cultures? But if that's the case then why is it bad to criticise colonialism and the British empire? So if we destroy cultures and traditions its something to celebrate? But if someone comes here as an individual (not an army) that's bad because they're going to destroy British culture? There is a hypocrisy there in my opinion and that's why I feel nationalism is weaponised at times. My loyalty lies to the workers and the working class and I know enough about British history to know that as a worker my biggest enemy isn't the foreigner the elite tell me to worry about. My enemy is the elite who wants me to die in trenches for him to get richer. Of course mate you know my views are very different from the average person. So this isn't a criticism or challenge to your post at all. Just me giving my take. Times change. For better or for worse. Right now it’s for worse and I defy anyone to oppose that. We are in a bad place as a country. One day things might change for the better but I doubt it’ll be in our lifetime. We aren't all coffin dodgers! I think if I felt the state treated us better maybe I'd show a bit more patriotism myself as I'd think we had something worth defending. Maybe anywhere up to 2010 I would have agreed with that. But nowadays I'd rather die in a prison cell than die fighting for those in power who treat us like shit (as far as I'm concerned). Obviously an aggressive opposition invading the country may change things to. But that's different from going to another country to fight. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 28, 2024 22:34:46 GMT
Times change. For better or for worse. Right now it’s for worse and I defy anyone to oppose that. We are in a bad place as a country. One day things might change for the better but I doubt it’ll be in our lifetime. We aren't all coffin dodgers! I think if I felt the state treated us better maybe I'd show a bit more patriotism myself as I'd think we had something worth defending. Maybe anywhere up to 2010 I would have agreed with that. But nowadays I'd rather die in a prison cell than die fighting for those in power who treat us like shit (as far as I'm concerned). Obviously an aggressive opposition invading the country may change things to. But that's different from going to another country to fight. And that’s exactly what it’s turned people, young people like yourself, into how they think today. We’d be fucked if faced with a war. And that’s not the peoples fault of course |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 28, 2024 22:40:17 GMT
Hating certain things about the country is one thing. But hating it as an entire entity is another more nefarious matter. Countries need a common cultural theme running through it or else it becomes very difficult to maintain an identity. And with no identity, well you become a little like stoke city have been for the last 7 years, ie shyte. But people who dislike borders and believe we should be able to pop a Dick Whittington travel sack on our backs and just go where we like whenever we like for as long as we like quite enjoy this lack of or diminishing British identity. They don't want britishness to be a thing. They are embarrassed by it and it doesn't suit their aims. They're either fantasists at best or worse they realise the current trajectory will turn this country into a lawless shit hole and they'll just be happy Britain has fallen. Dunno which to be honest. In my opinion of course chief 🤷♂️ The problem for me is on one side we talk about Great Britain and the British empire and how great it is for a small country to do so much. Yet at the same time we say how bad immigration is and it destroys cultures and lands... So did Britain destroy America, Australia, South Africa and Canada as us immigrants came over and destroyed the cultures? But if that's the case then why is it bad to criticise colonialism and the British empire? So if we destroy cultures and traditions its something to celebrate? But if someone comes here as an individual (not an army) that's bad because they're going to destroy British culture? There is a hypocrisy there in my opinion and that's why I feel nationalism is weaponised at times. My loyalty lies to the workers and the working class and I know enough about British history to know that as a worker my biggest enemy isn't the foreigner the elite tell me to worry about. My enemy is the elite who wants me to die in trenches for him to get richer. Of course mate you know my views are very different from the average person. So this isn't a criticism or challenge to your post at all. Just me giving my take. Look after your family, your friends, your neighbours and your community. Pay your taxes. That's patriotism. I couldn't give a flying fuck what piece of rock someone just happened to born on, treat people as you find them. All this wanking yourself over centuries old pomp and pageantry, statues and a piece of cloth blowing in the wind does absolutely nothing for me, but each to their own.......... |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 28, 2024 22:43:54 GMT
The problem for me is on one side we talk about Great Britain and the British empire and how great it is for a small country to do so much. Yet at the same time we say how bad immigration is and it destroys cultures and lands... So did Britain destroy America, Australia, South Africa and Canada as us immigrants came over and destroyed the cultures? But if that's the case then why is it bad to criticise colonialism and the British empire? So if we destroy cultures and traditions its something to celebrate? But if someone comes here as an individual (not an army) that's bad because they're going to destroy British culture? There is a hypocrisy there in my opinion and that's why I feel nationalism is weaponised at times. My loyalty lies to the workers and the working class and I know enough about British history to know that as a worker my biggest enemy isn't the foreigner the elite tell me to worry about. My enemy is the elite who wants me to die in trenches for him to get richer. Of course mate you know my views are very different from the average person. So this isn't a criticism or challenge to your post at all. Just me giving my take. Look after your family, your friends, your neighbours and your community. Pay your taxes. That's patriotism. I couldn't give a flying fuck what piece of rock someone just happened to born on, treat people as you find them. All this wanking yourself over centuries old pomp and pageantry, statues and a piece of cloth blowing in the wind does absolutely nothing for me, but each to their own.......... But by the same token there’s all this going on about colonialism and how the British invaded other countries from further back. As you point out, the here and now is what’s important, looking after the people you said. I also think living memory is important in a contextual sense as to what’s going on today. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 28, 2024 22:44:02 GMT
The problem for me is on one side we talk about Great Britain and the British empire and how great it is for a small country to do so much. Yet at the same time we say how bad immigration is and it destroys cultures and lands... So did Britain destroy America, Australia, South Africa and Canada as us immigrants came over and destroyed the cultures? But if that's the case then why is it bad to criticise colonialism and the British empire? So if we destroy cultures and traditions its something to celebrate? But if someone comes here as an individual (not an army) that's bad because they're going to destroy British culture? There is a hypocrisy there in my opinion and that's why I feel nationalism is weaponised at times. My loyalty lies to the workers and the working class and I know enough about British history to know that as a worker my biggest enemy isn't the foreigner the elite tell me to worry about. My enemy is the elite who wants me to die in trenches for him to get richer. Of course mate you know my views are very different from the average person. So this isn't a criticism or challenge to your post at all. Just me giving my take. Look after your family, your friends, your neighbours and your community. Pay your taxes. That's patriotism. I couldn't give a flying fuck what piece of rock someone just happened to born on, treat people as you find them. All this wanking yourself over centuries old pomp and pageantry, statues and a piece of cloth blowing in the wind does absolutely nothing for me, but each to their own.......... Pay your taxes? What for, most people get fuck all for it than to pay for shit they didn't ask to be done in their name, or on behalf of those people who take out more than they put in. It's all a scam. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 28, 2024 22:45:32 GMT
The problem for me is on one side we talk about Great Britain and the British empire and how great it is for a small country to do so much. Yet at the same time we say how bad immigration is and it destroys cultures and lands... So did Britain destroy America, Australia, South Africa and Canada as us immigrants came over and destroyed the cultures? But if that's the case then why is it bad to criticise colonialism and the British empire? So if we destroy cultures and traditions its something to celebrate? But if someone comes here as an individual (not an army) that's bad because they're going to destroy British culture? There is a hypocrisy there in my opinion and that's why I feel nationalism is weaponised at times. My loyalty lies to the workers and the working class and I know enough about British history to know that as a worker my biggest enemy isn't the foreigner the elite tell me to worry about. My enemy is the elite who wants me to die in trenches for him to get richer. Of course mate you know my views are very different from the average person. So this isn't a criticism or challenge to your post at all. Just me giving my take. Look after your family, your friends, your neighbours and your community. Pay your taxes. That's patriotism. I couldn't give a flying fuck what piece of rock someone just happened to born on, treat people as you find them. All this wanking yourself over centuries old pomp and pageantry, statues and a piece of cloth blowing in the wind does absolutely nothing for me, but each to their own.......... So if the country was so over populated that there wasn’t enough services for everyone and waiting times for life saving surgery was years not months would you still be saying “all welcome.” No issues re immigration but there simply has to be restrictions. |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 28, 2024 23:10:17 GMT
I am not concerned with high migration. Firstly the vast amount of migration is workers and students. The workers create the countries wealth and the students provide much needed income for our universities and return to their homelands, where they take much of British culture back with them and are hugely influential to the UK's benefit. The UK is the top country in the world educating the world's leaders. www.hepi.ac.uk/2017/08/05/uk-just-number-1-educating-worlds-leaders/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20by%20the,and%20colleges%20in%20the%20UK. Secondly the illegal immigrants that people get upset about make up a tiny proportion of the immigrants. And whose to say in time they will not contribute to our society, if allowed to stay. It is estimated there are over 150,000 Hongkongers moved to this country which they are perfectly entitles to do so. There are over 200,000 Ukrainian refugees. Is that a lot? The UK took over 250,000 Belgian refugees during WW1 when the UK population was only 44 million. Virtually all those Belgians went back to their country after the war and I expect the Ukrainians will do the same. There was a huge exit of people at the time of the pandemic which coincided with Brexit, as people rejoined their families and many will have returned to the UK post pandemic. Finally we have over 800,000 job vacancies. Employers are needing to hire people, despite NI increases next year. The economy continues to grow, albeit slowly and one of the reasons employers are bringing people in from abroad is they cannot get British workers, which in a large part is due to sickness. www.statista.com/statistics/1388245/uk-sick-leave-figures/If we can get the sickness levels down and invest in automation etc. we will not need to bring in so many workers. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 28, 2024 23:13:39 GMT
Hating certain things about the country is one thing. But hating it as an entire entity is another more nefarious matter. Countries need a common cultural theme running through it or else it becomes very difficult to maintain an identity. And with no identity, well you become a little like stoke city have been for the last 7 years, ie shyte. But people who dislike borders and believe we should be able to pop a Dick Whittington travel sack on our backs and just go where we like whenever we like for as long as we like quite enjoy this lack of or diminishing British identity. They don't want britishness to be a thing. They are embarrassed by it and it doesn't suit their aims. They're either fantasists at best or worse they realise the current trajectory will turn this country into a lawless shit hole and they'll just be happy Britain has fallen. Dunno which to be honest. In my opinion of course chief 🤷♂️ The problem for me is on one side we talk about Great Britain and the British empire and how great it is for a small country to do so much. Yet at the same time we say how bad immigration is and it destroys cultures and lands... So did Britain destroy America, Australia, South Africa and Canada as us immigrants came over and destroyed the cultures? But if that's the case then why is it bad to criticise colonialism and the British empire? So if we destroy cultures and traditions its something to celebrate? But if someone comes here as an individual (not an army) that's bad because they're going to destroy British culture? There is a hypocrisy there in my opinion and that's why I feel nationalism is weaponised at times. My loyalty lies to the workers and the working class and I know enough about British history to know that as a worker my biggest enemy isn't the foreigner the elite tell me to worry about. My enemy is the elite who wants me to die in trenches for him to get richer. Of course mate you know my views are very different from the average person. So this isn't a criticism or challenge to your post at all. Just me giving my take. I don't think immigrants are destroying our culture per se. We're historically a nation of immigrants of course. My parents came over from Dublin in the 70s. The current problem is the rate of change combined with successive poor governance since probably the late 80s. We are not providing adequate infrastructure. We have a broken planning system, which ironically is a very British problem indeed. We are a nation of nimbys. Add to this levels of immigration that we have never experienced and it's bound to cause issues. I mean how could it not. So then you get people who say, hang on this isn't working, we need to slow down and do this right. They are then lambasted as xenophobic or racist or thick gammony brits. Some of course are. But I like to think the vast majority are a bit more intelligent than that and they are genuinely concerned that our cultural identity is being stripped away far too quickly for it to be sustainable. Of course people will say go on then what is British identity. And they mock. And they laugh at St George flags and Union jacks and the silly gammons who talk about the good old days. Whether these people like it or not there is a large proportion of people 2nd 3rd 4th or 10th generation in this country who like Britain and its values. And they feel it is under threat. In my view there is a uniqueness to our Isles and the history that has shaped it. The Welsh, the English the Scottish and also the Irish over the sea. There is a love dislike relationship that has evolved into a wonderful thing in my opinion. It creates sporting drama, excellent banter and to me its part of Britain and to an extent Ireland. All of Ireland. I see Ireland as one personally, but thats another matter all together. For me anyway, and as a 2nd generation English man of Irish parents I love Britain and I love England. I hate to see how its failing right now. It feels like things have got out of control and I fear if we carry on at this speed in this direction Britain will be unrecognisable in less than 50 years. I don't think anyone should cheer that on personally when they themselves haven't a clue what the place will become in 50 years. As ever gawa its just my opinion. But I will reiterate my previous main point. A country without an identifiable culture or identity isn't a stable country. And its easily toppled. There has to be something common that everyone can buy into as a direction of travel. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 28, 2024 23:16:13 GMT
The problem for me is on one side we talk about Great Britain and the British empire and how great it is for a small country to do so much. Yet at the same time we say how bad immigration is and it destroys cultures and lands... So did Britain destroy America, Australia, South Africa and Canada as us immigrants came over and destroyed the cultures? But if that's the case then why is it bad to criticise colonialism and the British empire? So if we destroy cultures and traditions its something to celebrate? But if someone comes here as an individual (not an army) that's bad because they're going to destroy British culture? There is a hypocrisy there in my opinion and that's why I feel nationalism is weaponised at times. My loyalty lies to the workers and the working class and I know enough about British history to know that as a worker my biggest enemy isn't the foreigner the elite tell me to worry about. My enemy is the elite who wants me to die in trenches for him to get richer. Of course mate you know my views are very different from the average person. So this isn't a criticism or challenge to your post at all. Just me giving my take. I don't think immigrants are destroying our culture per se. We're historically a nation of immigrants of course. My parents came over from Dublin in the 70s. The current problem is the rate of change combined with successive poor governance since probably the late 80s. We are not providing adequate infrastructure. We have a broken planning system, which ironically is a very British problem indeed. We are a nation of nimbys. Add to this levels of immigration that we have never experienced and it's bound to cause issues. I mean how could it not. So then you get people who say, hang on this isn't working, we need to slow down and do this right. They are then lambasted as xenophobic or racist or thick gammony brits. Some of course are. But I like to think the vast majority are a bit more intelligent than that and they are genuinely concerned that our cultural identity is being stripped away far too quickly for it to be sustainable. Of course people will say go on then what is British identity. And they mock. And they laugh at St George flags and Union jacks and the silly gammons who talk about the good old days. Whether these people like it or not there is a large proportion of people 2nd 3rd 4th or 10th generation in this country who like Britain and its values. And they feel it is under threat. In my view there is a uniqueness to our Isles and the history that has shaped it. The Welsh, the English the Scottish and also the Irish over the sea. There is a love dislike relationship that has evolved into a wonderful thing in my opinion. It creates sporting drama, excellent banter and to me its part of Britain and to an extent Ireland. All of Ireland. I see Ireland as one personally, but thats another matter all together. For me anyway, and as a 2nd generation English man of Irish parents I love Britain and I love England. I hate to see how its failing right now. It feels like things have got out of control and I fear if we carry on at this speed in this direction Britain will be unrecognisable in less than 50 years. I don't think anyone should cheer that on personally when they themselves haven't a clue what the place will become in 50 years. As ever gawa its just my opinion. But I will reiterate my previous main point. A country without an identifiable culture or identity isn't a stable country. And its easily toppled. There has to be something common that everyone can buy into as a direction of travel. Superb post |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 28, 2024 23:48:30 GMT
You missed out the bit were they should accept our values and culture. I wouldn't dare go to Saudi, drink openly, kiss an unmarried woman in the street or marry a man etc. I'd accept there values or leave. Spot on. Whichever countries I have visited I've always shown respect for the difference of culture understanding that each country is different to our own and they have their own way of doing things. You are a guest at the end of the day. This is an absurdity There is a vast difference between the Laws of a Country and the Culture of a Country. What Northy described are Laws in particular Countries, if you don't feel you can go there and observe those Laws don't go there or you will end up in a whole pile of shite What Julia Harley-Brewer was objecting to was that Immigrants don't adopt British Culture, a whole different concept that Northy tangentially introduced Even if true, its not illegal in UK, unlike the actions Northy described would be in those Countries. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp surely |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 29, 2024 0:00:51 GMT
Spot on. Whichever countries I have visited I've always shown respect for the difference of culture understanding that each country is different to our own and they have their own way of doing things. You are a guest at the end of the day. This is an absurdity There is a vast difference between the Laws of a Country and the Culture of a Country. What Northy described are Laws in particular Countries, if you don't feel you can go there and observe those Laws don't go there or you will end up in a whole pile of shite What Julia Harley-Brewer was objecting to was that Immigrants don't adopt British Culture, a whole different concept that Northy tangentially introduced Even if true, its not illegal in UK, unlike the actions Northy described would be in those Countries. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp surely I think you're missing the point here. I've never murdered anyone or committed war crimes in Pakistan, yet my mate Shoab from Pakistan won't come down The Swan for a swift half - the two examples are exactly the same as far as I can see. There's a clearly a two-tier system here, where I am forced to abide by international law wherever I travel, yet Shoab cannot be forced into enjoying a pastime that he has no interest in partaking. |
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Post by Gods on Nov 29, 2024 0:05:13 GMT
I am not concerned with high migration. Firstly the vast amount of migration is workers and students. The workers create the countries wealth and the students provide much needed income for our universities and return to their homelands, where they take much of British culture back with them and are hugely influential to the UK's benefit. The UK is the top country in the world educating the world's leaders. www.hepi.ac.uk/2017/08/05/uk-just-number-1-educating-worlds-leaders/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20by%20the,and%20colleges%20in%20the%20UK. Secondly the illegal immigrants that people get upset about make up a tiny proportion of the immigrants. And whose to say in time they will not contribute to our society, if allowed to stay. It is estimated there are over 150,000 Hongkongers moved to this country which they are perfectly entitles to do so. There are over 200,000 Ukrainian refugees. Is that a lot? The UK took over 250,000 Belgian refugees during WW1 when the UK population was only 44 million. Virtually all those Belgians went back to their country after the war and I expect the Ukrainians will do the same. There was a huge exit of people at the time of the pandemic which coincided with Brexit, as people rejoined their families and many will have returned to the UK post pandemic. Finally we have over 800,000 job vacancies. Employers are needing to hire people, despite NI increases next year. The economy continues to grow, albeit slowly and one of the reasons employers are bringing people in from abroad is they cannot get British workers, which in a large part is due to sickness. www.statista.com/statistics/1388245/uk-sick-leave-figures/If we can get the sickness levels down and invest in automation etc. we will not need to bring in so many workers. Bottom line is the population of the UK was 60 million in 2005 and now it is 70 million. If you are wondering why our Victorian public services are creaking there is your answer. It doesn't matter if it is hospitals, schools, roads, prisons, defence or sewerage. |
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