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Post by Gods on Sept 14, 2022 22:00:32 GMT
What has gone on here? Were it not for Queen-Fest this one would be a news headline.
Details are sparse, the 24-year-old rapper and father to be, who was unarmed, was killed in Streatham Hill, south London, on 5 September by a single shot from a police officer.
Kaba was stopped by police following a pursuit. His car had been flagged by a number plate recognition camera for a fire arms offence according to the the Met although he was not the registered driver of the car. He was unarmed, the police officer has been suspended. Kaba does it seems have some kind of criminal record from his past.
Just seems to be some strange shit and 9 months is way too long to wait for an enquiry.
I am trying to guess at what went down but I can't come up with an explanation?
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Post by Boothen on Sept 14, 2022 22:03:37 GMT
You say 'unarmed, but 2-ton of Audi is a pretty deadly weapon, and is treated as such in other countries. The thing is, if the cunt had simply pulled over rather than giving it the beans and instigating a pursuit he'd still be alive. But of course, he's a 'rapper' so he's above any form of criticism.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 14, 2022 22:08:38 GMT
Not quite in the same league as the innocent Brazilian who was harmlessly catching a train
Where they promoted the lass in charge of the fuck up
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Post by roylandstoke on Sept 14, 2022 22:26:29 GMT
You say 'unarmed, but 2-ton of Audi is a pretty deadly weapon, and is treated as such in other countries. The thing is, if the cunt had simply pulled over rather than giving it the beans and instigating a pursuit he'd still be alive. But of course, he's a 'rapper' so he's above any form of criticism. Do you think the police officer who murdered this young man deserves to be called a cunt? |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 14, 2022 22:30:50 GMT
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Post by callas12 on Sept 15, 2022 0:23:30 GMT
Sadly of late Mr Khan's been having far to much to say, & indeed sway of matters he's prejudging and also clearly not privy to. Saying the officers who stopped the Olympic athlete recently in London needed disciplining & I'm sure he mentioned sacking was another example of him meddling. The fact the IOPC have quickly finalised the complaint and no further action was taken against the officers involved strongly suggests the stop check was both justified & necessary. But Khan won't be held responsible or accountable for insinuating it was a stop check based on race! Stirring racial tension when it's totally not necessary by Khan is actually part of the cause of the racial tension that is believed to still exist in the Capital. Why the need for racial overtones are linked to an incident is not just troublesome by Khan, but potentially highly inflammatory. If as a result of an investigation its deemed to be unlawful or racially motivated which I very much doubt it will be, then by all means campaign away at that point, but doing so based on pure speculation & conjecture is just irresponsible for a person in authority to start manifesting into peoples minds. Police bosses are far to cowardly to ever come out and say things for what they are either, instead of making sure they get enough platitudes out to the family of the deceased about how they sympathise with the family etc etc, its easier for them to do that than it is looking after the welfare of the officer who will get hung out to dry, irrelevant of the actual circumstances or outcome. I'm quite sure that officer and his family are going through hell & worry right now of a scale one could only imagine! As has been mentioned, not enough facts of this case have been made public knowledge to make assumptions based on factual evidence just yet, its purely all speculation & hearsay at this stage. To me though, on what we are aware of, the fact the officer wasn't suspended or indeed arrested straight away or very soon afterwards suggests to me that he is believed to have been justified in taking the action he has & a suspension was not deemed appropriate on the initial investigation findings, but now all of a sudden it has?! The fact that there's been a backlash from the family of the deceased and Mayor Khans & Stormzy etc have now got involved & its all come conveniently down to being a race issue, it has been deemed by the powers that be necessary to bow to peer pressure and to actually suspend the officer concerned! If this is the case it's totally wrong and an indication of the direction our current day Police Force is taking us in. Quite simply Kaba should of stopped & complied at the initial point of being requested to stop for the police, thats none negotiable. The fact he hasn't changes the rules of engagement & any unfortunate outcome that follows is for him to be responsible for. Obviously his family say he was a lovely lad and was about to be a dad and was the life and soul of the party! But failing to stop in a vehicle that clearly wasn't his or he wasn't documented to be driving, that was involved in some kind of firearm related incident a short time prior to this pursuit strongly suggests otherwise in my mind. |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 15, 2022 2:22:28 GMT
It is somewhat interesting that those criticising Lord Mayor of London Sadiq Khan (responsible for setting policing and crime priorities for London) and London MPs who represent the constituents effected by the shooting have no self awareness of themselves making vile and ill informed comments
Juse dealing with the known facts
A man was shot dead while being pursued by the Police
The man who shot the man dead was not arrested under caution to give a written statement
4 Days after the shooting the IOPC open a Criminal Investigation
6 days after the shooting the man who shot the other man dead is suspended from his job which entails the potential to commit deadly force
The car being pursued was alleged to have been involved in a recent firearms incident
The driver of the car, the dead man, was not the registered owner of the car
Question, and there are many. Was it the Car or the Driver that was being pursued It can't be both.
Extraneous information introduced
The man shot dead was previously convicted of a firearms offence. Yes as a teenager he was convicted of having an imitation gun. Back to the Question was it the Car or the Driver that was being pursued
Drill Music a sub-culture of hip hop is a big problem. It certainly has violent lyrics yes Do violent DVDs cause people to commit violence? Do Pornographic DVDs cause people to commit sex crimes? You may think so.
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Post by Boothen on Sept 15, 2022 4:42:33 GMT
You say 'unarmed, but 2-ton of Audi is a pretty deadly weapon, and is treated as such in other countries. The thing is, if the cunt had simply pulled over rather than giving it the beans and instigating a pursuit he'd still be alive. But of course, he's a 'rapper' so he's above any form of criticism. Do you think the police officer who murdered this young man deserves to be called a cunt? No, why would I? And when was the police officer in question convicted of murder? Did I miss that, because the last I saw he hadn't even been charged with a crime let alone convicted of one. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 15, 2022 6:32:00 GMT
It is somewhat interesting that those criticising Lord Mayor of London Sadiq Khan (responsible for setting policing and crime priorities for London) and London MPs who represent the constituents effected by the shooting have no self awareness of themselves making vile and ill informed comments Juse dealing with the known facts A man was shot dead while being pursued by the Police The man who shot the man dead was not arrested under caution to give a written statement 4 Days after the shooting the IOPC open a Criminal Investigation 6 days after the shooting the man who shot the other man dead is suspended from his job which entails the potential to commit deadly force The car being pursued was alleged to have been involved in a recent firearms incident The driver of the car, the dead man, was not the registered owner of the car Question, and there are many. Was it the Car or the Driver that was being pursued It can't be both. Extraneous information introduced The man shot dead was previously convicted of a firearms offence. Yes as a teenager he was convicted of having an imitation gun. Back to the Question was it the Car or the Driver that was being pursued Drill Music a sub-culture of hip hop is a big problem. It certainly has violent lyrics yes Do violent DVDs cause people to commit violence? Do Pornographic DVDs cause people to commit sex crimes? You may think so. In relation to drill music it’s dangerous and devisive. Chis Kaba was a member of “67” This is them From information given a number of the group were involved and have been sent to prison for being involved in county lines. You are quite right Chris Kaba was involved in a firearms offence to cause fear of violence as a teenager (not sure if it was fake though) and sentenced to 4 years for which he was released just months ago. So he hadn’t been out long. From accounts given he failed to stop in his vehicle and was told to get out 12 times to which he refused. What happened next is unknown and is key but sadly he lost his life after being shot. After such cases the IOPC will always open an enquiry and the officer will be suspended from his firearms role. The vehicle was pursued after it failed to stop after being flagged as being used in a recent firearms incident. If it had stopped and the driver Kaba had left the vehicle I think it’s highly unlikely the sad death would have happened. The officer would not be arrested as he was lawfully carrying the firearm though there is no doubt he will be interviewed by the IoPC. There are a lot of unknowns at the moment in relation to the incident due to it being a live incident for this reason a lot of people have made there mind up that it’s a murder. I’d suggest the best thing that those demanding protests and action wait till everything’s come out. As always the media have taken a very distorted view because it suits there agenda to portray Mr Kaba as being this lovely soon to be father studying to be an architect ruthlessly gunned down rather than being a bit more balanced. |
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 15, 2022 7:04:04 GMT
Waiting for the conclusion of an investigation is usually the best thing to do. Speculation about the deceased’s background and the officer’s action just causes unnecessary crap and raises tensions.
It will be a long time before it’s complete and I feel sorry for both the deceased’s family and the officer; it’s far too long to wait. You can blame the IOPC for that though, they are in a long running battle with the Police Federation about how long they take to complete investigations which sees officers suspended from duty sometimes running into years because they can’t get their act together. It also doesn’t give the person affected by the alleged conduct an opportunity to seek alternative redress if they think it necessary or the chance to move on with their lives.
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Post by callas12 on Sept 15, 2022 7:17:18 GMT
*Question, and there are many. Was it the Car or the Driver that was being pursued It can't be both.*
I'd answer yes of course it can be both. The driver is ultimately responsible for the car, he's in control of its movements & actions.
When the blue lights come on its the driver who makes the conscious decision to either stop for the police or make off. & generally if its the latter its for a reason of wrong doing whether that be connected to the driver or any other occupants of the vehicle at that time, something contained within the vehicle that in itself is illegal and the driver/occupants wouldn't want the police to find.
The driver ultimately makes the decision whether to stop and speak to the police or fail to stop and be the causation of a pursuit developing. So to that end, yes I believe both the vehicle & driver are being pursued in cases such as this.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 15, 2022 8:15:06 GMT
When’s the riot?
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Post by wannabee on Sept 15, 2022 9:22:21 GMT
It is somewhat interesting that those criticising Lord Mayor of London Sadiq Khan (responsible for setting policing and crime priorities for London) and London MPs who represent the constituents effected by the shooting have no self awareness of themselves making vile and ill informed comments Juse dealing with the known facts A man was shot dead while being pursued by the Police The man who shot the man dead was not arrested under caution to give a written statement 4 Days after the shooting the IOPC open a Criminal Investigation 6 days after the shooting the man who shot the other man dead is suspended from his job which entails the potential to commit deadly force The car being pursued was alleged to have been involved in a recent firearms incident The driver of the car, the dead man, was not the registered owner of the car Question, and there are many. Was it the Car or the Driver that was being pursued It can't be both. Extraneous information introduced The man shot dead was previously convicted of a firearms offence. Yes as a teenager he was convicted of having an imitation gun. Back to the Question was it the Car or the Driver that was being pursued Drill Music a sub-culture of hip hop is a big problem. It certainly has violent lyrics yes Do violent DVDs cause people to commit violence? Do Pornographic DVDs cause people to commit sex crimes? You may think so. In relation to drill music it’s dangerous and devisive. Chis Kaba was a member of “67” This is them From information given a number of the group were involved and have been sent to prison for being involved in county lines. You are quite right Chris Kaba was involved in a firearms offence to cause fear of violence as a teenager (not sure if it was fake though) and sentenced to 4 years for which he was released just months ago. So he hadn’t been out long. From accounts given he failed to stop in his vehicle and was told to get out 12 times to which he refused. What happened next is unknown and is key but sadly he lost his life after being shot. After such cases the IOPC will always open an enquiry and the officer will be suspended from his firearms role. The vehicle was pursued after it failed to stop after being flagged as being used in a recent firearms incident. If it had stopped and the driver Kaba had left the vehicle I think it’s highly unlikely the sad death would have happened. The officer would not be arrested as he was lawfully carrying the firearm though there is no doubt he will be interviewed by the IoPC. There are a lot of unknowns at the moment in relation to the incident due to it being a live incident for this reason a lot of people have made there mind up that it’s a murder. I’d suggest the best thing that those demanding protests and action wait till everything’s come out. As always the media have taken a very distorted view because it suits there agenda to portray Mr Kaba as being this lovely soon to be father studying to be an architect ruthlessly gunned down rather than being a bit more balanced. The Police are not above the Law. In any situation where violence never mind death has occurred the Police in this case the IOPC because a Police Officer was involved would immediately launch an investigation and interview the perpetrator, if known, under caution. As a result of this interview the perpetrator would either be released, released on bail pending further enquiries or charged with an offence. The IOPC took 4 days before they interviewed the Police Shooter. Can you conceive of a situation where a member of Joe Public was involved in a violent situation never mind A death would wait 4 days before being interviewed, no neither can I. It was another 2 days before the Police Officer was suspended from Duty which involved carrying a fire arm with potential to commit deadly force. The IOPC now claim it will take up to 9 months to conclude their investigation, why? Will it take this long to buy a fucking carpet big enough to sweep this under. This is not acceptable to the family of the deceased or to the Police Officer and his Family. This delay only fosters the belief of a cover up With regard to Drill Music it's not to my taste but it's of it's time and reflects the culture of its time whether you or I like it or not. Drill 67 received a MOBO in 2016 as Best Newcomer so their music must have some artistic merit. The Bands first UK Tour was cancelled when the MET used the notorious Form 696 to shut it down. The now thankfully defuncted Form 696 is about as clear piece of Police Racial Profiling as you can get. Obviously introduced by the MET to foster strong community relations, not. What of other previous controversial Music Groups. Take the Sex Pistols spawned from the grim reality of depressing UK in the early 70s particularly for young people At the time they outraged the whole Nation with some of their songs like Anarchy in the UK which preached just that to their generation and who can forget in the week that's in it their particular version of God Save The Queen. They were endlessly condemned by MSM not only for their songs and their lyrics but for their infrequent Television Interviews One Classic interview was a drunken early evening foul language tirade with Bill Grundy on Thames TV This sparked the Mary Whitehouse Brigade and MSM sustained coverage to have them banned. Another notorious BBC Interview in 1978 with John Lydon aka Johhny Rotten where he outed Jimmy Saville as a Nonce a good 34 years before Saville was finally outed. Of course the Sex Pistols and their Music were banned from BBC but strangely their was no clamour or investigative work done by MSM into Rotten's allegations Rolling Stone Magazine ranked the Sex Pistols No 58th most influential Band of all time. Unlike Drill 67 I do like The Sex Pistols Music, but then again they were of my time. |
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Post by Davef on Sept 15, 2022 12:07:51 GMT
The latest Government statistics regarding police firearms reveals that there were 18,262 firearms operations in the year ending March 2021, a 6% decrease compared with the previous year and the second consecutive year-on-year decrease.
There were FOUR incidents in which police firearms were discharged. This compares with 5 incidents in the previous year.
This shows that, unlike their American counterparts, our Police firearms officers don't shoot first and ask questions later.
I'll pretty confidently speculate that this career criminal was shot dead because either members of the public or the police officer in question (or maybe even both) were in extreme danger.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 15, 2022 12:48:14 GMT
The latest Government statistics regarding police firearms reveals that there were 18,262 firearms operations in the year ending March 2021, a 6% decrease compared with the previous year and the second consecutive year-on-year decrease. There were FOUR incidents in which police firearms were discharged. This compares with 5 incidents in the previous year. This shows that, unlike their American counterparts, our Police firearms officers don't shoot first and ask questions later. I'll pretty confidently speculate that this career criminal was shot dead because either members of the public or the police officer in question (or maybe even both) were in extreme danger. That's quite a stretch to conclude mortal danger to the Public and/or the Police when no weapon was found. If you look at the pictures in the aftermath of the shooting it's clear his car was completely boxed in, he wasn't going anywhere I'd also be interested to understand why you conclude this 24 year old was a "carreer criminal" As far as I'm aware he had one conviction for a firearms offence which MSM have extensively reported, most have opted to omit the detail that it was an imitation firearm I'm fairly confident that if he had other offences MSM would be all over it like a rash. Maybe you have access to PNC which tell you differently? I have no reason to doubt your Statistics and fully accept these incidences are thankfully very rare. All the more reason to investigate them competently and swiftly They rarely are |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 15, 2022 12:50:44 GMT
The latest Government statistics regarding police firearms reveals that there were 18,262 firearms operations in the year ending March 2021, a 6% decrease compared with the previous year and the second consecutive year-on-year decrease. There were FOUR incidents in which police firearms were discharged. This compares with 5 incidents in the previous year. This shows that, unlike their American counterparts, our Police firearms officers don't shoot first and ask questions later. I'll pretty confidently speculate that this career criminal was shot dead because either members of the public or the police officer in question (or maybe even both) were in extreme danger. Yet many including the press make out like it’s the wild west and that officers are trigger happy. Interesting that there was a double shooting over the weekend yet it seems to have received little attention. The public have a far greater chance of being shot by a criminal than a police officer. |
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Post by callas12 on Sept 15, 2022 13:14:20 GMT
The latest Government statistics regarding police firearms reveals that there were 18,262 firearms operations in the year ending March 2021, a 6% decrease compared with the previous year and the second consecutive year-on-year decrease. There were FOUR incidents in which police firearms were discharged. This compares with 5 incidents in the previous year. This shows that, unlike their American counterparts, our Police firearms officers don't shoot first and ask questions later. I'll pretty confidently speculate that this career criminal was shot dead because either members of the public or the police officer in question (or maybe even both) were in extreme danger. That's quite a stretch to conclude mortal danger to the Public and/or the Police when no weapon was found. If you look at the pictures in the aftermath of the shooting it's clear his car was completely boxed in, he wasn't going anywhere I'd also be interested to understand why you conclude this 24 year old was a "carreer criminal" As far as I'm aware he had one conviction for a firearms offence which MSM have extensively reported, most have opted to omit the detail that it was an imitation firearm I'm fairly confident that if he had other offences MSM would be all over it like a rash. Maybe you have access to PNC which tell you differently? I have no reason to doubt your Statistics and fully accept these incidences are thankfully very rare. All the more reason to investigate them competently and swiftly They rarely are No weapon(s) necessarily had to he found. Yes it makes the press report look better and more justifiable if one may have been present but it really isn't the be all and end all that the press, family & police criticisers make it in to.. A whole host of circumstances could have presented themselves in this scenario that led to him being shot and killed. I'm expecting that it'll be something conclusive aswell as the IOPC are prepared to allow the family of the deceased to view the footage leading up to his death, quite a rare event or opportunity for them to be presented with outside a court case environment. Officers get seconds to make a judgement call & if they suspected he had a firearm on board the vehicle or his person & was attempting to obtain and use said item then the officer has acted decisively and courageously. It may be that the car was being driven forwards and backwards erratically in an attempt to get away. Again if this could potentially in any way harm or injury a fellow officer or member of the public, neutralising the subject in these circumstances could very well be justified & lawful. Lethal Force used to negate Lethal Force is a last resort thing but if the officer deemed it necessary and has taken that step to discharge lethal force, he should be supported and hailed a hero, unlike the racist officer of the law the family of the deceased and others especially some in authority are making out. |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 15, 2022 13:43:48 GMT
The latest Government statistics regarding police firearms reveals that there were 18,262 firearms operations in the year ending March 2021, a 6% decrease compared with the previous year and the second consecutive year-on-year decrease. There were FOUR incidents in which police firearms were discharged. This compares with 5 incidents in the previous year. This shows that, unlike their American counterparts, our Police firearms officers don't shoot first and ask questions later. I'll pretty confidently speculate that this career criminal was shot dead because either members of the public or the police officer in question (or maybe even both) were in extreme danger. That's quite a stretch to conclude mortal danger to the Public and/or the Police when no weapon was found. If you look at the pictures in the aftermath of the shooting it's clear his car was completely boxed in, he wasn't going anywhere I'd also be interested to understand why you conclude this 24 year old was a "carreer criminal" As far as I'm aware he had one conviction for a firearms offence which MSM have extensively reported, most have opted to omit the detail that it was an imitation firearm I'm fairly confident that if he had other offences MSM would be all over it like a rash. Maybe you have access to PNC which tell you differently? I have no reason to doubt your Statistics and fully accept these incidences are thankfully very rare. All the more reason to investigate them competently and swiftly They rarely are Read the reports refused repeated attempts to stop drove car at police car / officers try telling the family of PC Andrew Harper a car isn't a weapon. The car he was in was linked to a previous firearms incident, driving a £25k+ car he didn't own despite having no job or known income, gang links - how many clues do you need ? None of this of course means he deserved to die but it certainly appears his actions on that day significantly contributed to the outcome. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 15, 2022 13:45:21 GMT
The latest Government statistics regarding police firearms reveals that there were 18,262 firearms operations in the year ending March 2021, a 6% decrease compared with the previous year and the second consecutive year-on-year decrease. There were FOUR incidents in which police firearms were discharged. This compares with 5 incidents in the previous year. This shows that, unlike their American counterparts, our Police firearms officers don't shoot first and ask questions later. I'll pretty confidently speculate that this career criminal was shot dead because either members of the public or the police officer in question (or maybe even both) were in extreme danger. and that officers are trigger happy. Interesting that there was a double shooting over the weekend yet it seems to have received little attention. The public have a far greater chance of being shot by a criminal than a police officer. So exactly what you're doing on the London thread?  |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 15, 2022 13:48:11 GMT
That's quite a stretch to conclude mortal danger to the Public and/or the Police when no weapon was found. If you look at the pictures in the aftermath of the shooting it's clear his car was completely boxed in, he wasn't going anywhere I'd also be interested to understand why you conclude this 24 year old was a "carreer criminal" As far as I'm aware he had one conviction for a firearms offence which MSM have extensively reported, most have opted to omit the detail that it was an imitation firearm I'm fairly confident that if he had other offences MSM would be all over it like a rash. Maybe you have access to PNC which tell you differently? I have no reason to doubt your Statistics and fully accept these incidences are thankfully very rare. All the more reason to investigate them competently and swiftly They rarely are No weapon(s) necessarily had to he found. Yes it makes the press report look better and more justifiable if one may have been present but it really isn't the be all and end all that the press, family & police criticisers make it in to.. A whole host of circumstances could have presented themselves in this scenario that led to him being shot and killed. I'm expecting that it'll be something conclusive aswell as the IOPC are prepared to allow the family of the deceased to view the footage leading up to his death, quite a rare event or opportunity for them to be presented with outside a court case environment. Officers get seconds to make a judgement call & if they suspected he had a firearm on board the vehicle or his person & was attempting to obtain and use said item then the officer has acted decisively and courageously. It may be that the car was being driven forwards and backwards erratically in an attempt to get away. Again if this could potentially in any way harm or injury a fellow officer or member of the public, neutralising the subject in these circumstances could very well be justified & lawful. Lethal Force used to negate Lethal Force is a last resort thing but if the officer deemed it necessary and has taken that step to discharge lethal force, he should be supported and hailed a hero, unlike the racist officer of the law the family of the deceased and others especially some in authority are making out. I find little in your post to disagree with especially the second paragraph All the more reason to interview all of the witnesses as soon as possible especially the Shooter when all of the details and impressions are fresh in their minds I find it extraordinary it took them 4 days It is this lack or urgency which creates a suspicion of not caring or worse a cover up Purely speculative on my behalf it that the Police expected someone else to be driving the car. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 15, 2022 15:37:12 GMT
Yet many including the press make out like it’s the wild west and that officers are trigger happy. Interesting that there was a double shooting over the weekend yet it seems to have received little attention. The public have a far greater chance of being shot by a criminal than a police officer. So exactly what you're doing on the London thread?  I was referring to the officers being trigger happy like the old sheriffs in the wild west not about London. In relation to London with the recent double shooting in Islington and the stabbing of the 16 year old in Croydon over the last few days London’s certainly beginning to resemble 30’s Chicago or the Wild West. Nice try though. |
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Post by chiprockets on Sept 15, 2022 16:07:17 GMT
terrifying to think you can get gunned down by the police without cause and half the population think it's deserved
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2022 16:14:43 GMT
terrifying to think you can get gunned down by the police without cause and half the population think it's deserved 🎣 nice bait |
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Post by Boothen on Sept 15, 2022 16:22:10 GMT
terrifying to think you can get gunned down by the police without cause and half the population think it's deserved 🎣 nice bait Not just bait, but...  |
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 15, 2022 16:22:25 GMT
No weapon(s) necessarily had to he found. Yes it makes the press report look better and more justifiable if one may have been present but it really isn't the be all and end all that the press, family & police criticisers make it in to.. A whole host of circumstances could have presented themselves in this scenario that led to him being shot and killed. I'm expecting that it'll be something conclusive aswell as the IOPC are prepared to allow the family of the deceased to view the footage leading up to his death, quite a rare event or opportunity for them to be presented with outside a court case environment. Officers get seconds to make a judgement call & if they suspected he had a firearm on board the vehicle or his person & was attempting to obtain and use said item then the officer has acted decisively and courageously. It may be that the car was being driven forwards and backwards erratically in an attempt to get away. Again if this could potentially in any way harm or injury a fellow officer or member of the public, neutralising the subject in these circumstances could very well be justified & lawful. Lethal Force used to negate Lethal Force is a last resort thing but if the officer deemed it necessary and has taken that step to discharge lethal force, he should be supported and hailed a hero, unlike the racist officer of the law the family of the deceased and others especially some in authority are making out. I find little in your post to disagree with especially the second paragraph All the more reason to interview all of the witnesses as soon as possible especially the Shooter when all of the details and impressions are fresh in their minds I find it extraordinary it took them 4 days It is this lack or urgency which creates a suspicion of not caring or worse a cover up Purely speculative on my behalf it that the Police expected someone else to be driving the car. There are established national procedures following a police shooting and the officer will have been subject to a Post Incident Procedure process. They will have provided a basic initial account on the night and formal interviews normally don’t take place any sooner than 72 hours post incident. All weapons and evidence will have been secured on the night with a full crime scene investigation taking place. The reason for no immediate interview is not a suggested cover up, more a case of obtaining the most accurate account. Anyone involved in a trauma based episode, and this will be one for all involved, needs time for their brain to process what has happened, hence the delay. If they are interviewed too soon they run the risk of providing an inaccurate account or locking themselves into PTSD. This of course raises the question why aren’t murder suspects treated the same way? The answer is that officers are treated as witnesses and not suspects. If they were by default treated as a suspect none would carry firearms and do the shitty job expected of them where they will be investigated regardless of the circumstances. Can you imagine if the officers at Borough Market and London Bridge terror attacks were treated as murder suspects? Additionally, just think for one moment what it must be like to be responsible for ending someones life. It’s not like it is in films where it’s all light hearted. Speak to any soldier, sailor or airman who has done it…..it lives with them for the rest of their lives and some sadly can’t handle it. I hope this answers your queries around time scales and far from it being because there is something to hide, it is for the aforementioned reasons. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 15, 2022 16:32:45 GMT
I find little in your post to disagree with especially the second paragraph All the more reason to interview all of the witnesses as soon as possible especially the Shooter when all of the details and impressions are fresh in their minds I find it extraordinary it took them 4 days It is this lack or urgency which creates a suspicion of not caring or worse a cover up Purely speculative on my behalf it that the Police expected someone else to be driving the car. There are established national procedures following a police shooting and the officer will have been subject to a Post Incident Procedure process. They will have provided a basic initial account on the night and formal interviews normally don’t take place any sooner than 72 hours post incident. All weapons and evidence will have been secured on the night with a full crime scene investigation taking place. The reason for no immediate interview is not a suggested cover up, more a case of obtaining the most accurate account. Anyone involved in a trauma based episode, and this will be one for all involved, needs time for their brain to process what has happened, hence the delay. If they are interviewed too soon they run the risk of providing an inaccurate account or locking themselves into PTSD. This of course raises the question why aren’t murder suspects treated the same way? The answer is that officers are treated as witnesses and not suspects. If they were by default treated as a suspect none would carry firearms and do the shitty job expected of them where they will be investigated regardless of the circumstances. Can you imagine if the officers at Borough Market and London Bridge terror attacks were treated as murder suspects? Additionally, just think for one moment what it must be like to be responsible for ending someones life. It’s not like it is in films where it’s all light hearted. Speak to any soldier, sailor or airman who has done it…..it lives with them for the rest of their lives and some sadly can’t handle it. I hope this answers your queries around time scales and far from it being because there is something to hide, it is for the aforementioned reasons. Spot on. Clearly a man who knows what he’s talking about. The sad thing is that often due to a lack of knowledge this is often not explained so well to those who are way to quick to put the boot in. |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 15, 2022 21:29:38 GMT
I find little in your post to disagree with especially the second paragraph All the more reason to interview all of the witnesses as soon as possible especially the Shooter when all of the details and impressions are fresh in their minds I find it extraordinary it took them 4 days It is this lack or urgency which creates a suspicion of not caring or worse a cover up Purely speculative on my behalf it that the Police expected someone else to be driving the car. There are established national procedures following a police shooting and the officer will have been subject to a Post Incident Procedure process. They will have provided a basic initial account on the night and formal interviews normally don’t take place any sooner than 72 hours post incident. All weapons and evidence will have been secured on the night with a full crime scene investigation taking place. The reason for no immediate interview is not a suggested cover up, more a case of obtaining the most accurate account. Anyone involved in a trauma based episode, and this will be one for all involved, needs time for their brain to process what has happened, hence the delay. If they are interviewed too soon they run the risk of providing an inaccurate account or locking themselves into PTSD. This of course raises the question why aren’t murder suspects treated the same way? The answer is that officers are treated as witnesses and not suspects. If they were by default treated as a suspect none would carry firearms and do the shitty job expected of them where they will be investigated regardless of the circumstances. Can you imagine if the officers at Borough Market and London Bridge terror attacks were treated as murder suspects? Additionally, just think for one moment what it must be like to be responsible for ending someones life. It’s not like it is in films where it’s all light hearted. Speak to any soldier, sailor or airman who has done it…..it lives with them for the rest of their lives and some sadly can’t handle it. I hope this answers your queries around time scales and far from it being because there is something to hide, it is for the aforementioned reasons. In these very rare cases it is often as important to be seen to do the right as to do the right thing To dispel any doubt I have never suggested impropriety on behalf of the Police My concern has been and still is the actions or more specifically the Inactions of the IOPC I will write in detail, not for your benefit as I'm quite certain you are aware of the procedures but for others who may not. The Post Incident Manager PIM is appointed immediately under the National Procedures PIP you reference This is usually a Police DI or above. His/Her role is purely as a liason as the Police have no powers of Investigation when it involves a Police Officer. As soon as possible the Officers involved in shooting are removed from the scene and retire to a designated Suite where PIP Proceedures begin. The PIM will liase with Police Federation Reps and Lawyers, Explain Proceedures to Officers Involved, Monitor Officers Welfare allow them to shower and eat etc and most crucially liase with the Senior Investigating Officer from the IOPC All of this is expected to take place during Stage 1 2 and 3 of the Investigation which is almost immediately and certainly within the first 24 Housrs. My issue is and always has been as the MET are unable to investigate why did the IOPC take 4 days to become involved when the National Procedures you reference indicate their immediate involvement Perhaps you can explain? The Proceedures are here as explained by the Police and Firearms Association themselves www.pfoa.co.uk/articles/police-involved-shooting |
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 15, 2022 22:09:30 GMT
There are established national procedures following a police shooting and the officer will have been subject to a Post Incident Procedure process. They will have provided a basic initial account on the night and formal interviews normally don’t take place any sooner than 72 hours post incident. All weapons and evidence will have been secured on the night with a full crime scene investigation taking place. The reason for no immediate interview is not a suggested cover up, more a case of obtaining the most accurate account. Anyone involved in a trauma based episode, and this will be one for all involved, needs time for their brain to process what has happened, hence the delay. If they are interviewed too soon they run the risk of providing an inaccurate account or locking themselves into PTSD. This of course raises the question why aren’t murder suspects treated the same way? The answer is that officers are treated as witnesses and not suspects. If they were by default treated as a suspect none would carry firearms and do the shitty job expected of them where they will be investigated regardless of the circumstances. Can you imagine if the officers at Borough Market and London Bridge terror attacks were treated as murder suspects? Additionally, just think for one moment what it must be like to be responsible for ending someones life. It’s not like it is in films where it’s all light hearted. Speak to any soldier, sailor or airman who has done it…..it lives with them for the rest of their lives and some sadly can’t handle it. I hope this answers your queries around time scales and far from it being because there is something to hide, it is for the aforementioned reasons. In these very rare cases it is often as important to be seen to do the right as to do the right thing To dispel any doubt I have never suggested impropriety on behalf of the Police My concern has been and still is the actions or more specifically the Inactions of the IOPC I will write in detail, not for your benefit as I'm quite certain you are aware of the procedures but for others who may not. The Post Incident Manager PIM is appointed immediately under the National Procedures PIP you reference This is usually a Police DI or above. His/Her role is purely as a liason as the Police have no powers of Investigation when it involves a Police Officer. As soon as possible the Officers involved in shooting are removed from the scene and retire to a designated Suite where PIP Proceedures begin. The PIM will liase with Police Federation Reps and Lawyers, Explain Proceedures to Officers Involved, Monitor Officers Welfare allow them to shower and eat etc and most crucially liase with the Senior Investigating Officer from the IOPC All of this is expected to take place during Stage 1 2 and 3 of the Investigation which is almost immediately and certainly within the first 24 Housrs. My issue is and always has been as the MET are unable to investigate why did the IOPC take 4 days to become involved when the National Procedures you reference indicate their immediate involvement Perhaps you can explain? The Proceedures are here as explained by the Police and Firearms Association themselves www.pfoa.co.uk/articles/police-involved-shootingThink you are perhaps getting mistaken with a couple of bits. In addition to the PIM, there will be an Initial Investigating Officer appointed who does have powers of investigation. These powers enable them to investigate and direct others to do so as it is not the role of the PIM to do that. Therefore, the Met, or any other force have the powers to investigate; it’s done by the IIO and not the PIM who fulfils a different role. The IOPC will have been notified at the time (one of the jobs of the IIO). What is interesting and I think where the confusion is arising is the position of the IOPC. The shooting happened on 5th September and then the reference that the IOPC have launched a homicide investigation on 9th, four days later. This doesn’t mean they were called in late or no investigation took place for four days, more a case of they were told on the night, would have been working and investigating the case (in liaison with the IIO initially) and after four days have come to the conclusion to launch a homicide investigation which is there call. As I’ve said previously on this thread, best to wait for the lengthy investigation to take its course. Hope this offers the explanation you asked for. |
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Post by Gods on Sept 15, 2022 22:58:47 GMT
terrifying to think you can get gunned down by the police without cause and half the population think it's deserved It's a strange one alright |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 15, 2022 23:01:44 GMT
In these very rare cases it is often as important to be seen to do the right as to do the right thing To dispel any doubt I have never suggested impropriety on behalf of the Police My concern has been and still is the actions or more specifically the Inactions of the IOPC I will write in detail, not for your benefit as I'm quite certain you are aware of the procedures but for others who may not. The Post Incident Manager PIM is appointed immediately under the National Procedures PIP you reference This is usually a Police DI or above. His/Her role is purely as a liason as the Police have no powers of Investigation when it involves a Police Officer. As soon as possible the Officers involved in shooting are removed from the scene and retire to a designated Suite where PIP Proceedures begin. The PIM will liase with Police Federation Reps and Lawyers, Explain Proceedures to Officers Involved, Monitor Officers Welfare allow them to shower and eat etc and most crucially liase with the Senior Investigating Officer from the IOPC All of this is expected to take place during Stage 1 2 and 3 of the Investigation which is almost immediately and certainly within the first 24 Housrs. My issue is and always has been as the MET are unable to investigate why did the IOPC take 4 days to become involved when the National Procedures you reference indicate their immediate involvement Perhaps you can explain? The Proceedures are here as explained by the Police and Firearms Association themselves www.pfoa.co.uk/articles/police-involved-shootingThink you are perhaps getting mistaken with a couple of bits. In addition to the PIM, there will be an Initial Investigating Officer appointed who does have powers of investigation. These powers enable them to investigate and direct others to do so as it is not the role of the PIM to do that. Therefore, the Met, or any other force have the powers to investigate; it’s done by the IIO and not the PIM who fulfils a different role. The IOPC will have been notified at the time (one of the jobs of the IIO). What is interesting and I think where the confusion is arising is the position of the IOPC. The shooting happened on 5th September and then the reference that the IOPC have launched a homicide investigation on 9th, four days later. This doesn’t mean they were called in late or no investigation took place for four days, more a case of they were told on the night, would have been working and investigating the case (in liaison with the IIO initially) and after four days have come to the conclusion to launch a homicide investigation which is there call. As I’ve said previously on this thread, best to wait for the lengthy investigation to take its course. Hope this offers the explanation you asked for. Perfectly explained, thank you. I guess by their nature and happily infrequently these controversial investigations take as long as they need to. Someone, perhaps yourself, earlier observed about the unusual step of the Family viewing the CAM Footage. I see this as a very positive step to quell any unfounded allegations In my view the IOPC doesn't do itself any favours in how it communicates with the Public and I understand it can't comment in detail on ongoing investigations. Perhaps you should consider yourself for the role |
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