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Post by chiprockets on Sept 15, 2022 23:21:10 GMT
terrifying to think you can get gunned down by the police without cause and half the population think it's deserved š£ nice bait Pretty rich considering your post history Unless you believe all of the right wing dog whistle stuff you post? Edit; in my delight at calling out a hypocrite, Iām not sure what is supposed to bait |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 16, 2022 4:24:48 GMT
terrifying to think you can get gunned down by the police without cause and half the population think it's deserved I guess time will tell in relation to whether there was justification from the officer but letās not forget that a vehicle can be used as a deadly weapon, as poor PC Andrew Harper found when he was dragged half a mile to his death when he tried to stop some thieves stealing a quad bike. At the moment the body cam hasnāt been seen by anyone other than the IOPC and the officers version not published so nowās not the time to judge. It does seem however that many people have already made there mind up on the back of some pretty one sided reporting and the portrayal of Kaba as a wonderful human being whoās murky past and involvement in county lines and firearms is totally overlooked. No one deserves to die but that goes for both parties. If the officer after all evidence has been heard and seen found accountable then he will get the punishment he deserves Iām sure. If the force used is identified as being justified thereās going to be a hell lot of people with egg on their face however Iām sure thereāll still be plenty who wonāt accept it just because itās the Police involved. |
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 16, 2022 6:38:04 GMT
Think you are perhaps getting mistaken with a couple of bits. In addition to the PIM, there will be an Initial Investigating Officer appointed who does have powers of investigation. These powers enable them to investigate and direct others to do so as it is not the role of the PIM to do that. Therefore, the Met, or any other force have the powers to investigate; itās done by the IIO and not the PIM who fulfils a different role. The IOPC will have been notified at the time (one of the jobs of the IIO). What is interesting and I think where the confusion is arising is the position of the IOPC. The shooting happened on 5th September and then the reference that the IOPC have launched a homicide investigation on 9th, four days later. This doesnāt mean they were called in late or no investigation took place for four days, more a case of they were told on the night, would have been working and investigating the case (in liaison with the IIO initially) and after four days have come to the conclusion to launch a homicide investigation which is there call. As Iāve said previously on this thread, best to wait for the lengthy investigation to take its course. Hope this offers the explanation you asked for. Perfectly explained, thank you. I guess by their nature and happily infrequently these controversial investigations take as long as they need to. Someone, perhaps yourself, earlier observed about the unusual step of the Family viewing the CAM Footage. I see this as a very positive step to quell any unfounded allegations In my view the IOPC doesn't do itself any favours in how it communicates with the Public and I understand it can't comment in detail on ongoing investigations. Perhaps you should consider yourself for the role To be fair the IOPC have a very difficult role. I imagine they are treated with suspicion and dislike by the officers they are investigating and they are under immense pressure and expectation from the family. The portrayal you see in most films around how internal investigations are shown arenāt a million miles off I bet šš. As the IOPC arenāt the police I can only imagine the suspicion is worse and yet the families will see them as the police, so they canāt win either way. With regards to communication, the IOPC has to be seen to be doing, to show their value, to give confidence and consequently you sometimes see grand standing headlines which may well be the case in this matter of Mr Kaba. All in all they have an invidious task. As for me considering a role in the IOPCā¦..it would be a cold day in hell before that happened š¤£š¤£š¤£ |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 16, 2022 7:58:06 GMT
Pretty rich considering your post history Unless you believe all of the right wing dog whistle stuff you post? Edit; in my delight at calling out a hypocrite, Iām not sure what is supposed to bait š Right wing dog whistle stuff Priceless |
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Post by Davef on Sept 16, 2022 9:08:26 GMT
On the subject of the Police having to defend themselves...
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Post by callas12 on Sept 16, 2022 10:06:48 GMT
terrifying to think you can get gunned down by the police without cause and half the population think it's deserved I guess time will tell in relation to whether there was justification from the officer but letās not forget that a vehicle can be used as a deadly weapon, as poor PC Andrew Harper found when he was dragged half a mile to his death when he tried to stop some thieves stealing a quad bike. At the moment the body cam hasnāt been seen by anyone other than the IOPC and the officers version not published so nowās not the time to judge. It does seem however that many people have already made there mind up on the back of some pretty one sided reporting and the portrayal of Kaba as a wonderful human being whoās murky past and involvement in county lines and firearms is totally overlooked. No one deserves to die but that goes for both parties. If the officer after all evidence has been heard and seen found accountable then he will get the punishment he deserves Iām sure. If the force used is identified as being justified thereās going to be a hell lot of people with egg on their face however Iām sure thereāll still be plenty who wonāt accept it just because itās the Police involved. Oh your last point is so true, they'll always be a side or hidden motive or agenda to what happened in some peoples eyes, regardless of what the official enquiry or investigation reveals. When people try to intimate that Kaba was only shot/killed because of his colour, are people really that naive to think that is really what was in the officers mind when he pulled the trigger?! & it's interesting that no one who is putting forward the race issue to the forefront of this shooting, has even considered that the officer concerned in this case may well be of non white background his or herself?! |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 16, 2022 12:09:03 GMT
terrifying to think you can get gunned down by the police without cause and half the population think it's deserved I guess time will tell in relation to whether there was justification from the officer but letās not forget that a vehicle can be used as a deadly weapon, as poor PC Andrew Harper found when he was dragged half a mile to his death when he tried to stop some thieves stealing a quad bike. At the moment the body cam hasnāt been seen by anyone other than the IOPC and the officers version not published so nowās not the time to judge. It does seem however that many people have already made there mind up on the back of some pretty one sided reporting and the portrayal of Kaba as a wonderful human being whoās murky past and involvement in county lines and firearms is totally overlooked. No one deserves to die but that goes for both parties. If the officer after all evidence has been heard and seen found accountable then he will get the punishment he deserves Iām sure. If the force used is identified as being justified thereās going to be a hell lot of people with egg on their face however Iām sure thereāll still be plenty who wonāt accept it just because itās the Police involved. I believe in this particular incident the handling by The MET has been quite good comparative to previous incidents. Whether this is a change in policy by new Commissioner Mark Rowley only time will tell Time will indeed tell and I have confidence the investigation will be handled properly I personally haven't seen any one-sided reporting (I'm not sure there should be sides other than reporting of facts and an investigation to establish the truth) With regard to facts you and others have mentioned several times Kaba's involvement in County Lines, Do you have any evidence of this? Unless perhaps you can be guilty by association Policing can only be carried out by consent and with the cooperation of the people it polices The Met unfortunately have a long and chequered past Recent Polling by Queen Mary's University found that 49% of Londoner don't trust The Met, this number rises to 52% among women and 54% among Ethnic Minorities So its not just a lunatic left wing group but general mistrust amongst all Londoners Why would this be I wonder It is only 23 years since the Macpherson Report found the Met to be Institutionally Racist And let's look at what has happened in just the recent past Police Commissioner Cresida Dick was forced to resign and The Met itself placed in Special Measures (it couldn't be relied upon to manage itself properly) by His Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary due to a litany of Systemic Failures And what else in the last two years Numerous Officers have been exposed for making jokes about domestic violence and using racist and misogynistic language in private chat groups As, mostly women, openly mourned the Killing of Sarah Everard a young woman murdered by PC Wanye Couzens we could all see on our TV screens the heavy-handed way the Met Policeed the Vigil 3 months ago Oladeji Omishore while undergoing a Mental Heath Crisis was Tazered by 2 Met Officers fell into the Thames and was killed The Investigation is ongoing with the 2 Officers as witnesses and are still on duty. This incident bears remarkable resemblance to the Warwickshire case of Darren Cumberbatch in 2017 In July of this year 5 years on the IOPC have launched a new inquiry into his death due to flaws in the original investigation Is it any wonder people may be sceptical when they hear of incidents involving the Met Police Most fair minded people just want these incidents to be properly investigated |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 16, 2022 17:01:33 GMT
[/quote]I believe in this particular incident the handling by The MET has been quite good comparative to previous incidents. Whether this is a change in policy by new Commissioner Mark Rowley only time will tell Time will indeed tell and I have confidence the investigation will be handled properlyĀ (agreed) I personally haven't seen any one-sided reporting (I'm not sure there should be sides other than reporting of facts and an investigation to establish the truth) (In relation to this Iād say itās subtle but directing people towards the way they want from showing a photo of him in a relaxed happy pose. Talking about him being a father to be and studying to be an architect with no reference to him being in prison for 4 years for being in possession of a firearm or being a member of 67 a drill gang / group linked to county lines. Very little concentration on him being in a vehicle linked to firearms, refusing to stop or exit the vehicle when requested too on 12 occasions). With regard to facts you and others have mentioned several times Kaba's involvement in County Lines, Do you have any evidence of this? Unless perhaps you can be guilty by associationĀ He and his chums were a member of the 67 drill group. amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/26/jailed-county-lines-drugs-south-east-englandPerhaps he was guilty by association or wasnāt around at the time due to serving 4 years in prison for being in posession of a firearm at the age of 19. Policing can only be carried out by consent and with the cooperation of the people it polices The Met unfortunately have a long and chequered past Recent Polling by Queen Mary's University found that 49% of Londoner don't trust The Met, this number rises to 52% among women and 54% among Ethnic Minorities So its not just a lunatic left wing group but general mistrust amongst all Londoners Why would this be I wonder It is only 23 years since the Macpherson Report found the Met to be Institutionally Racist And let's look at what has happened in just the recent past Police Commissioner Cresida Dick was forced to resign and The Met itself placed in Special Measures (it couldn't be relied upon to manage itself properly) by His Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary due to a litany of Systemic FailuresĀ (No issues with this but every officers an individual and canāt be guilty by association and be judged by what colleagues have done). And what else in the last two years Numerous Officers have been exposed for making jokes about domestic violence and using racist and misogynistic language in private chat groups (and they deserve what they get as theyāre an embarrassment to the uniform and all their hardworking colleagues). As, mostly women, openly mourned the Killing of Sarah Everard a young woman murdered by PC Wanye Couzens we could all see on our TV screens the heavy-handed way the Met Policeed the Vigil 3 months ago Oladeji Omishore while undergoing a Mental Heath Crisis was Tazered by 2 Met Officers fell into the Thames and was killed The Investigation is ongoing with the 2 Officers as witnesses and are still on duty. This incident bears remarkablehttps://youtu.be/6crUVlnjrxc resemblance to the Warwickshire case of Darren Cumberbatch in 2017 In July of this year 5 years on the IOPC have launched a new inquiry into his death due to flaws in the original investigationĀ (RIP to Mr Omishore as mental health is tragic and very different to criminal behaviour. Reports came in reporting the male initially having a knife and youāre quite right he was tasered on a number of occasions however I wouldnt say he fell into the Thames he tragically ran and jumped in). Is it any wonder people may be sceptical when they hear of incidents involving the Met Police Most fair minded people just want these incidents to be properly investigatedĀ On a final note I think BWV will be a massive positive both for officers and the public it will hopefully give first hand evidence and should cut out any doubts re what happened and should avoid the publicās accusations around cover ups. I think theyāve only be operating a couple of years. In this case itāll be crucial. Itāll be interesting to see what Mr Kabaās parents reaction will be if they do indeed view it. Itās an unusual step and itāll be interesting to know why itās been taken. I do believe publishing BWV to the public in such cases is a positive once a decisions been made. In relation to Officers shooting members of the public when you look at the number of incidents they attend itās thankfully very very rare. I think Chris Kaba shot is the first since Mark Duggan 9 years ago. This is not a frequent thing unlike gang shootings in the cities which are on the increase. [/quote] |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 16, 2022 18:06:30 GMT
Seriously? Can you not see your blatant hypocrisy by first saying this:
He and his chums were a member of the 67 drill group.
Perhaps he was guilty by association or wasnāt around at the time due to serving 4 years in prison for being in posession of a firearm at the age of 19. (It was actually an imitation firearm) Police Commissioner Cresida Dick was forced to resign and The Met itself placed in Special Measures (it couldn't be relied upon to manage itself properly) by His Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary due to a litany of Systemic Failures And then you saying this? ( No issues with this but every officers an individual and canāt be guilty by association and be judged by what colleagues have done).
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 16, 2022 18:24:23 GMT
Seriously? Can you not see your blatant hypocrisy by first saying this:
HeĀ and his chums were a member of the 67 drill group.
Perhaps he was guilty by association or wasnāt around at the time due to serving 4 years in prison for being in posession of a firearm at the age of 19. (It was actually an imitation firearm) Police Commissioner Cresida Dick was forced to resign and The Met itself placed in Special Measures (it couldn't be relied upon to manage itself properly) by His Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary due to a litany of Systemic Failures And then you saying this? ( No issues with this but every officers an individual and canāt be guilty by association and be judged by what colleagues have done).
I said it because of what youād said in relation to Kaba being guilty by association. Whatās good for the goose is good for the gander. It was my idea of sarcasm. |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 16, 2022 18:56:36 GMT
Seriously? Can you not see your blatant hypocrisy by first saying this:
He and his chums were a member of the 67 drill group.
Perhaps he was guilty by association or wasnāt around at the time due to serving 4 years in prison for being in posession of a firearm at the age of 19. (It was actually an imitation firearm) Police Commissioner Cresida Dick was forced to resign and The Met itself placed in Special Measures (it couldn't be relied upon to manage itself properly) by His Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary due to a litany of Systemic Failures And then you saying this? ( No issues with this but every officers an individual and canāt be guilty by association and be judged by what colleagues have done).
I said it because of what youād said in relation to Kaba being guilty by association. Whatās good for the goose is good for the gander. It was my idea of sarcasm. Very strange No matter how much you would like it to be so Kaba had no association with County Lines. Its just a libel you seem intent on perpetuating |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 16, 2022 19:02:31 GMT
I said it because of what youād said in relation to Kaba being guilty by association. Whatās good for the goose is good for the gander. It was my idea of sarcasm. Very strangeĀ No matter how much you would like it to be so Kaba had no association with County Lines. Its just a libel you seem intent on perpetuatingĀ Like the sentence for possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence in Feb 2018 or was that libellous too. eastlondonnews.co.uk/canning-town-gunman-charged/ |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 16, 2022 19:20:29 GMT
Good grief you made a libelous accusation I asked you for proof you couldn't supply it as there is none which part of this are you failing to understand
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 16, 2022 19:48:06 GMT
Good grief you made a libelous accusation I asked you for proof you couldn't supply it as there is none which part of this are you failing to understand Original post āand involvement in county lines and firearms is totally overlooked.ā Involvement? This relates to him being part of the 67 gang. āMany in the group, which comprised 15 men and one woman, had connections to a south London gang called the 67. Eight of those convicted feature in music videos for songs with violent lyrics by the drill group of the same name (of which Kaba was a member). County lines is a drug distribution system in which criminal networks funnel hard drugs from cities to towns and rural regions across the country. The defendants were sentenced over three days at Inner London crown court. The judge, Benedict Kelleher, said: āEach time class A drug was sold under one of these conspiracies, those responsible were committing an act of harm towards the buyer and the wider public who live in those communities, who have to suffer the appalling effects of crime and degradation class A drug addiction brings. āThe evidence that is linked to the 67 gang demonstrates the entrenched connection between gang membership and drug supply.ā Kelleher told the court crack cocaine and heroin had a ādevastating effectā on communities and the individuals who took them. If youāre so upset with the word āinvolvementā Iāll change it to āPrior to being sent to prison for posession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence Kaba was a member of a drill group 67. Some of Kabaās chums from 67 were sent to court for running 5 county line drugs lines. Eight of those convicted feature in music videos for songs with violent lyrics by the drill group of the same name.ā |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 16, 2022 19:59:35 GMT
All very interesting except Kaba was not charged never mind convicted of being involved in County Lines When they change the Laws in this Country to being guilty of something because you knew someone who was Gawd Help Us. I wouldn't rule it out mind
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 16, 2022 20:14:03 GMT
All very interesting except Kaba was not charged never mind convicted of being involved in County Lines When they change the Laws in this Country to being guilty of something because you knew someone who was Gawd Help Us. I wouldn't rule it out mind And thatās why i didnāt put charged or convicted for county lines I just put it in respect to the firearms offence for which he served time. |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 16, 2022 20:26:20 GMT
All very interesting except Kaba was not charged never mind convicted of being involved in County Lines When they change the Laws in this Country to being guilty of something because you knew someone who was Gawd Help Us. I wouldn't rule it out mind And thatās why i didnāt put charged or convicted for county lines I just put it in respect to the firearms offence for which he served time. And yet you did just 15 hours ago in reply to Chiprockets This is what you said: It does seem however that many people have already made there mind up on the back of some pretty one sided reporting and the portrayal of Kaba as a wonderful human being whoās murky past and involvement in county lines and firearms is totally overlooked. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 16, 2022 20:33:18 GMT
And thatās why i didnāt put charged or convicted for county lines I just put it in respect to the firearms offence for which he served time. And yet you did just 15 hours ago in reply to Chiprockets This is what you said: It does seem however that many people have already made there mind up on the back of some pretty one sided reporting and the portrayal of Kaba as a wonderful human being whoās murky past and involvement in county lines and firearms is totally overlooked. If you donāt me asking whatās the actual point that youāre trying to prove? |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 16, 2022 20:45:54 GMT
And yet you did just 15 hours ago in reply to Chiprockets This is what you said: It does seem however that many people have already made there mind up on the back of some pretty one sided reporting and the portrayal of Kaba as a wonderful human being whoās murky past and involvement in county lines and firearms is totally overlooked. If you donāt me asking whatās the actual point that youāre trying to prove? I don't like Hypocrisy |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 16, 2022 20:52:49 GMT
If you donāt me asking whatās the actual point that youāre trying to prove? I don't like HypocrisyĀ Same here though Iād say my bigger issues lob sided reporting. I donāt think weāre ever going to agree but no hard feelings. |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 16, 2022 21:06:51 GMT
I agree which makes someone posting inaccuracies on an obscure Football MB doesn't really matter in the whole scheme of things It's Lop by the way.
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 17, 2022 5:30:57 GMT
I agree which makes someone posting inaccuracies on an obscure Football MB doesn't really matter in the whole scheme of things It's Lop by the way. OK thanks and thanks for pointing out my mispelling of lop Iāve recently been diagnosed as having mild dyslexia so itās always useful to be corrected. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 17, 2022 9:33:36 GMT
On the subject of the Police having to defend themselves... |
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Post by knype on Sept 17, 2022 10:14:21 GMT
On the subject of the Police having to defend themselves... This will be another young man defended by his family as being a lovely lad. Others will say police brutality... |
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 17, 2022 10:57:03 GMT
On the subject of the Police having to defend themselves... Thatās frightening. The thing is, the movies make it look so easy in a knife fight to disarm someone when it isnāt. The speed of that attack. Looks like they had him under control with Taser and then took it off to move in and he saw his chance. If I recall, Iām sure someone commented on another police thread about excessive force in using a Taser for so longā¦..well thereās your answer! What I did like from that video is the couple of black guys who looked like they were trying to help. One of them certainly stood guard over the knife and the other threw a bikeā¦.not sure who he was aiming for, but he looked like he was doing the right thing š. I hope they get the recognition they deserve. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 17, 2022 11:23:56 GMT
Thatās frightening. The thing is, the movies make it look so easy in a knife fight to disarm someone when it isnāt. The speed of that attack. Looks like they had him under control with Taser and then took it off to move in and he saw his chance. If I recall, Iām sure someone commented on another police thread about excessive force in using a Taser for so longā¦..well thereās your answer! What I did like from that video is the couple of black guys who looked like they were trying to help. One of them certainly stood guard over the knife and the other threw a bikeā¦.not sure who he was aiming for, but he looked like he was doing the right thing š. I hope they get the recognition they deserve. Well said. The guy with the bike did a cracking job in particular and deserves a medal. Despite the awful situation an incident like this is a shining light because the 2 black guys have done the right thing. Both should get commendations. Itās incidents like this that give me hope that people can look on themselves as individuals and can live in harmony. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 17, 2022 14:53:18 GMT
Looks like Jezzaās not waiting for the investigation to be completed.
I'd like to know what justice is.
Is it
- The officer to be charged with something even if it's deemed he's acted appropriately
- for a fair and independent investigation where it's dealt with no differently than any other.
It should be the latter however I fear it isnāt.
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Post by dutchstokie on Sept 18, 2022 18:38:19 GMT
If you donāt me asking whatās the actual point that youāre trying to prove? I don't like HypocrisyĀ I donāt like shit music, but after listening to some ādrillā Iām glad I donāt have to listen to it ever again What a fuckin clown Kaba |
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Post by felonious on Sept 18, 2022 18:50:21 GMT
Looks like Jezzaās not waiting for the investigation to be completed. I'd like to know what justice is. Is it - The officer to be charged with something even if it's deemed he's acted appropriately - for a fair and independent investigation where it's dealt with no differently than any other. It should be the latter however I fear it isnāt. Not getting back into the Labour fold any time soon then.... |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 18, 2022 18:52:17 GMT
Looks like Jezzaās not waiting for the investigation to be completed. I'd like to know what justice is. Is it - The officer to be charged with something even if it's deemed he's acted appropriately - for a fair and independent investigation where it's dealt with no differently than any other. It should be the latter however I fear it isnāt. Not getting back into the Labour fold any time soon then.... Good. If he does I wonāt be voting for anyone. |
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