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Post by elystokie on Sept 5, 2022 15:25:53 GMT
As far as the harms go, yes, talking drugs one is 114 times as dangerous overall as another. I think it's 45% overall not just for drugs but crime overall, however an awful lot of crime is drug related. 45% for crime overall. Gosh! 😲 Say that to the Swedish police. They would be over the moon. A police man said to me "at LEAST 85%, it's always the same people committing crimes here". They're even on tv here procaiming their right to build unions for their occupation. There's a massive difference, I think, between Swedish prisons and UK prisons. A horrendous re-offending rate of 85% doesn't mean that a 45% rate is acceptable does it? |
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Post by elystokie on Sept 5, 2022 15:28:01 GMT
an awful lot of crime is drug related. Interesting. So basically, without any drugs at all of any kind anywhere in the world, there would be less crime. Yup that's right. Similarly, if there wasn't any drug prohibition there'd be less crime. |
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London
Sept 5, 2022 15:30:27 GMT
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Post by musik on Sept 5, 2022 15:30:27 GMT
45% for crime overall. Gosh! 😲 Say that to the Swedish police. They would be over the moon. A police man said to me "at LEAST 85%, it's always the same people committing crimes here". They're even on tv here procaiming their right to build unions for their occupation. There's a massive difference, I think, between Swedish prisons and UK prisons. A horrendous re-offending rate of 85% doesn't mean that a 45% rate is acceptable does it? Correct. And correct again. Last week I got informed it costs the swedish tax payers 100.000 SEK per month, 1.200.000 SEK (£100.000) per year, to have a convicted person in prison. I think the sums are a bit different in Afghanistan ... |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 5, 2022 15:41:18 GMT
I've just had a lovely sandwich from Frank's Coffee House in Fitzrovia for me dinner.
Chicken escalope on ciabatta.
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Post by elystokie on Sept 5, 2022 15:45:59 GMT
There's a massive difference, I think, between Swedish prisons and UK prisons. A horrendous re-offending rate of 85% doesn't mean that a 45% rate is acceptable does it? Correct. And correct again. Last week I got informed it costs the swedish tax payers 100.000 SEK per month, 1.200.000 SEK (£100.000) per year, to have a convicted person in prison. I think the sums are a bit different in Afghanistan ... A much more cost effective way would be to have them on a tag drastically restricting there whereabouts. The QC I quoted above reckons that out of the UK prison population of around 80,000 only 63 prisoners in total are considered too much of a danger to be released. He also reckons that the average reading age of a prisoner in the UK is 11 years old, no wonder a lot of them struggle outside of prison. |
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London
Sept 5, 2022 15:59:35 GMT
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Post by musik on Sept 5, 2022 15:59:35 GMT
Correct. And correct again. Last week I got informed it costs the swedish tax payers 100.000 SEK per month, 1.200.000 SEK (£100.000) per year, to have a convicted person in prison. I think the sums are a bit different in Afghanistan ... A much more cost effective way would be to have them on a tag drastically restricting there whereabouts. The QC I quoted above reckons that out of the UK prison population of around 80,000 only 63 prisoners in total are considered too much of a danger to be released. He also reckons that the average reading age of a prisoner in the UK is 11 years old, no wonder a lot of them struggle outside of prison. In Sweden it's 5689 today. 94% men, 6% women. But approx. 10.000 are in the waiting queue for a cell, in the land of queues. |
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London
Sept 5, 2022 16:19:19 GMT
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 5, 2022 16:19:19 GMT
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London
Sept 5, 2022 16:23:38 GMT
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Post by milton58 on Sept 5, 2022 16:23:38 GMT
My lad has been drinking eating around st Katharines dock.. pictures he sent me looks a nice place.. good and bad areas in all of our cities..you just need to avoid all the shit holes and your fine
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 5, 2022 16:25:10 GMT
No one said London didn't have issues. It's the embarrassing talk of "no go areas" and how it's "no longer England" because of Sadiq Khan (dog whistle racism) that are just utter bollocks. 10 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan, Canada yesterday. That's the latest "no go area" I suppose........ |
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Post by elystokie on Sept 5, 2022 16:27:16 GMT
No one said London didn't have issues. It's the embarrassing talk of "no go areas" and how it's "no longer England" because of Sadiq Khan (dog whistle racism) that are just utter bollocks. 10 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan, Canada yesterday. That's the latest "no go area" I suppose........ To be fair Sadiq Khan did visit Canada a year or two ago, I'm sure the Daily Heil will come up with some connection between the two in due course  |
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London
Sept 5, 2022 16:35:26 GMT
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Post by sticky on Sept 5, 2022 16:35:26 GMT
Don’t think I’ve ever been to London without muttering “I’m never coming back here ever again” always end up getting sucked back In though! Find the people down there unfriendly unwelcoming and rude beyond belief.. sweeping generalisation I know but just my experience.. and the people on public transport who pretend they can’t see old/disabled/young children and don’t offer their seat up just sends me over the edge🤦🏻♂️
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Sept 5, 2022 16:37:02 GMT
No one said London didn't have issues. It's the embarrassing talk of "no go areas" and how it's "no longer England" because of Sadiq Khan (dog whistle racism) that are just utter bollocks. 10 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan, Canada yesterday. That's the latest "no go area" I suppose........ There’s a huge difference to a one off tragic incident like Saskatchewan and something that happens on a daily basis. What’s this got to do with race anyway? His ethnicity has got nothing to do with the dogs dinner he’s making of his job. It’s about the issue in London predominantly but any big city in the U.K. too. London will always get the most attention because it’s the biggest city and the one that gets the most focus. Due to this other areas will follow various trends that start there like knife crime or this worrying new craze of looting and take its lead. For what it’s worth living in and working close to London I know a lot of people who are moving out because they don’t feel safe anymore. One friend who lives in Islington who wants to stick it out has been burgled 4 times this year. He’s just spent the best part of 50k on security. So for every tale of “I’ve been to Croydon and felt safe” there’s a counter story of someone saying the opposite. So in relation to “Usual suspects creating / commenting on this thread to justify an agenda that goes far beyond 'London” I’m not sure what the agenda is as I’m not trying to achieve anything by having a good old moan but reading about all the murders and stabbings saddens me as we have some of the greatest historic cities not just in Europe but the world and it’s sad to see them getting wrecked and seen fairly or unfairly as places that no one wants to visit. Yes maybe social medias over exposing the problem but it’s not nice seeing people having there shops wrecked or kids being stabbed / murdered on what appears a regular basis. |
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Post by musik on Sept 5, 2022 18:07:24 GMT
No one said London didn't have issues. It's the embarrassing talk of "no go areas" and how it's "no longer England" because of Sadiq Khan (dog whistle racism) that are just utter bollocks. 10 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan, Canada yesterday. That's the latest "no go area" I suppose........ There’s a huge difference to a one off tragic incident like Saskatchewan and something that happens on a daily basis. What’s this got to do with race anyway? His ethnicity has got nothing to do with the dogs dinner he’s making of his job. It’s about the issue in London predominantly but any big city in the U.K. too. London will always get the most attention because it’s the biggest city and the one that gets the most focus. Due to this other areas will follow various trends that start there like knife crime or this worrying new craze of looting and take its lead. For what it’s worth living in and working close to London I know a lot of people who are moving out because they don’t feel safe anymore. One friend who lives in Islington who wants to stick it out has been burgled 4 times this year. He’s just spent the best part of 50k on security. So for every tale of “I’ve been to Croydon and felt safe” there’s a counter story of someone saying the opposite. So in relation to “Usual suspects creating / commenting on this thread to justify an agenda that goes far beyond 'London” I’m not sure what the agenda is as I’m not trying to achieve anything by having a good old moan but reading about all the murders and stabbings saddens me as we have some of the greatest historic cities not just in Europe but the world and it’s sad to see them getting wrecked and seen fairly or unfairly as places that no one wants to visit. Yes maybe social medias over exposing the problem but it’s not nice seeing people having there shops wrecked or kids being stabbed / murdered on what appears a regular basis. True. So many people live with their head in the sand (as we say up here at least). Btw, I don't know what the mentioned agenda is either, but it seems to be a fucking brilliant one! |
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London
Sept 5, 2022 18:19:04 GMT
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Post by dutchstokie on Sept 5, 2022 18:19:04 GMT
My lad has been drinking eating around st Katharines dock.. pictures he sent me looks a nice place.. good and bad areas in all of our cities..you just need to avoid all the shit holes and your fine I used to run St.Katherines Yacht Club back in the 90 for 5 years. Right next to the lock. Good times they were If you venture a little further up you have The Prospect of Whitby and Scots Arms. |
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London
Sept 5, 2022 23:38:26 GMT
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 5, 2022 23:38:26 GMT
No one said London didn't have issues. It's the embarrassing talk of "no go areas" and how it's "no longer England" because of Sadiq Khan (dog whistle racism) that are just utter bollocks. 10 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan, Canada yesterday. That's the latest "no go area" I suppose........ There’s a huge difference to a one off tragic incident like Saskatchewan and something that happens on a daily basis. What’s this got to do with race anyway? His ethnicity has got nothing to do with the dogs dinner he’s making of his job. It’s about the issue in London predominantly but any big city in the U.K. too. London will always get the most attention because it’s the biggest city and the one that gets the most focus. Due to this other areas will follow various trends that start there like knife crime or this worrying new craze of looting and take its lead. For what it’s worth living in and working close to London I know a lot of people who are moving out because they don’t feel safe anymore. One friend who lives in Islington who wants to stick it out has been burgled 4 times this year. He’s just spent the best part of 50k on security. So for every tale of “I’ve been to Croydon and felt safe” there’s a counter story of someone saying the opposite. So in relation to “Usual suspects creating / commenting on this thread to justify an agenda that goes far beyond 'London” I’m not sure what the agenda is as I’m not trying to achieve anything by having a good old moan but reading about all the murders and stabbings saddens me as we have some of the greatest historic cities not just in Europe but the world and it’s sad to see them getting wrecked and seen fairly or unfairly as places that no one wants to visit. Yes maybe social medias over exposing the problem but it’s not nice seeing people having there shops wrecked or kids being stabbed / murdered on what appears a regular basis. Lived in Liverpool, Manchester and London. Never been mugged, never been burgled. As a bloke if you keep yourself to yourself it’s as safe as anywhere. Harassment of women is a completely separate issue I suppose. |
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Post by felonious on Sept 6, 2022 6:28:39 GMT
45% for crime overall. Gosh! 😲 Say that to the Swedish police. They would be over the moon. A police man said to me "at LEAST 85%, it's always the same people committing crimes here". They're even on tv here procaiming their right to build unions for their occupation. There's a massive difference, I think, between Swedish prisons and UK prisons. A horrendous re-offending rate of 85% doesn't mean that a 45% rate is acceptable does it? You're right it's not acceptable but it does offer some insight on the problems in Sweden which is often held up as a paragon on here with which to beat the UK. |
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Post by felonious on Sept 6, 2022 6:36:40 GMT
No one said London didn't have issues. It's the embarrassing talk of "no go areas" and how it's "no longer England" because of Sadiq Khan (dog whistle racism) that are just utter bollocks. 10 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan, Canada yesterday. That's the latest "no go area" I suppose........ I gather from reading the dreadful news from Saskatchewan yesterday that it has no systemic ongoing history of violence hence the complete sense of shock so perhaps not a good example. As for no go areas it's a shame that people on here defending London to the hilt aren't all over the Hanley threads in the same way. It's a strange old world..... |
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 6, 2022 6:42:14 GMT
There's a massive difference, I think, between Swedish prisons and UK prisons. A horrendous re-offending rate of 85% doesn't mean that a 45% rate is acceptable does it? You're right it's not acceptable but it does offer some insight on the problems in Sweden which is often held up as a paragon on here with which to beat the UK. A quick Google search suggests Musik might be off the mark. Sweden’s recidivism rates are very low - quoted at between 16 and 40%! It seems the Swedish prison system is based on a philosophy of rehabilitation part of which is shorter sentences. |
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London
Sept 6, 2022 7:04:54 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 6, 2022 7:04:54 GMT
No one said London didn't have issues. It's the embarrassing talk of "no go areas" and how it's "no longer England" because of Sadiq Khan (dog whistle racism) that are just utter bollocks. 10 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan, Canada yesterday. That's the latest "no go area" I suppose........ I gather from reading the dreadful news from Saskatchewan yesterday that it has no systemic ongoing history of violence hence the complete sense of shock so perhaps not a good example. As for no go areas it's a shame that people on here defending London to the hilt aren't all over the Hanley threads in the same way. It's a strange old world..... Well I personally haven’t set foot in Hanley for about 15 years other than a couple of gigs at the Stage Door/Sugarmill so it wouldn’t be fair for me to comment on Hanley, I’ve probably been to London 60 times in that period. Not sure why people have to comment on both either way to be fair…… |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 6, 2022 7:08:14 GMT
No one said London didn't have issues. It's the embarrassing talk of "no go areas" and how it's "no longer England" because of Sadiq Khan (dog whistle racism) that are just utter bollocks. 10 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan, Canada yesterday. That's the latest "no go area" I suppose........ There’s a huge difference to a one off tragic incident like Saskatchewan and something that happens on a daily basis. What’s this got to do with race anyway? His ethnicity has got nothing to do with the dogs dinner he’s making of his job. It’s about the issue in London predominantly but any big city in the U.K. too. London will always get the most attention because it’s the biggest city and the one that gets the most focus. Due to this other areas will follow various trends that start there like knife crime or this worrying new craze of looting and take its lead. For what it’s worth living in and working close to London I know a lot of people who are moving out because they don’t feel safe anymore. One friend who lives in Islington who wants to stick it out has been burgled 4 times this year. He’s just spent the best part of 50k on security. So for every tale of “I’ve been to Croydon and felt safe” there’s a counter story of someone saying the opposite. So in relation to “Usual suspects creating / commenting on this thread to justify an agenda that goes far beyond 'London” I’m not sure what the agenda is as I’m not trying to achieve anything by having a good old moan but reading about all the murders and stabbings saddens me as we have some of the greatest historic cities not just in Europe but the world and it’s sad to see them getting wrecked and seen fairly or unfairly as places that no one wants to visit. Yes maybe social medias over exposing the problem but it’s not nice seeing people having there shops wrecked or kids being stabbed / murdered on what appears a regular basis. If you want people to be scared of their own shadows, people should keep talking up “no go areas”. The reality is there are hardly any, pockets of London and other cities you would need to have your wits about you of course…… |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 6, 2022 7:24:25 GMT
I love London, myself. Places such as Hampton Court and Regents Park are very peaceful. My daughter had split up with her boyfriend, my wife and I had already got a trip to London booked and wanted her to come with us. Being a Goth she would only come if we went to Highgate cemetery . No chance from me, a visit to a cemetery....but of course I gave in....absolutely fascinating visit...well worth it...You even have to pay an entrance fee!.Even the cafe in the adjoining park to the cemetery serves good food. I think the Houses of Parliament are well worth a visit....if organised by your local MP, it is free. I once took 12 lively students around , guided by Mark Fisher MP....He was absolutely brilliant....passionate about the history and legends.Pugin..pointed out marks in walls allegedly made by sword fights, the original pottery tiles ( Spode I think)...then being replaced by Italian tiles...because we weren't able to do them anymore. If you do arrange to visit by contacting your MP...book a trip up the Elizabethan Tower at the same time, it can't be booked later, on the same day. We also liked to go to Stamford Hill on a Sunday morning at a Jewish cafe. Ronnie Scott's is on my agenda for the next visit. Any other recommendations for places to go/ things to do in London. CA12 5XG highgatecemetery.org/highgatecemetery.org/visit |
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Post by elystokie on Sept 6, 2022 7:24:37 GMT
You're right it's not acceptable but it does offer some insight on the problems in Sweden which is often held up as a paragon on here with which to beat the UK. A quick Google search suggests Musik might be off the mark. Sweden’s recidivism rates are very low - quoted at between 16 and 40%! It seems the Swedish prison system is based on a philosophy of rehabilitation part of which is shorter sentences. There was a programme on telly a while back that showed one of the Scandy prisons, looked quite literally like a holiday camp, they had houses in the grounds so that families could share weekend visits with the prisoners. It seemed very much a philosophy of rehabilitation as opposed to our system where they could be locked up for 23 hours a day every day. I was surprised at musik's figures, couldn't be arsed to check tho |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 6, 2022 7:50:03 GMT
A quick Google search suggests Musik might be off the mark. Sweden’s recidivism rates are very low - quoted at between 16 and 40%! It seems the Swedish prison system is based on a philosophy of rehabilitation part of which is shorter sentences. There was a programme on telly a while back that showed one of the Scandy prisons, looked quite literally like a holiday camp, they had houses in the grounds so that families could share weekend visits with the prisoners. It seemed very much a philosophy of rehabilitation as opposed to our system where they could be locked up for 23 hours a day every day. I was surprised at musik's figures, couldn't be arsed to check tho Little Venice is lovely particularly in the evening for a stroll and something to eat, Sky Garden for the best free views in London (you have to get a ticket online but they're free), Columbia Road Flower Market is great on a Sunday morning, Leadenhall Market, The Postal Museum and Mail Rail where you can explore some the underground tunnels in the railway system, Greenwich in general is my favourite part of London but they've just restored the Painted Hall inside the Old Royal Naval College which is spectacular. I've never known a city where you can visit so many times and find so many undiscovered churches, gardens, pubs, restaurants, cafes, monuments etc every time.......... |
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Post by elystokie on Sept 6, 2022 7:53:52 GMT
I love London, myself. Places such as Hampton Court and Regents Park are very peaceful. My daughter had split up with her boyfriend, my wife and I had already got a trio to London booked and wanted her to come with us. Being a Goth she would only come if we went to Highgate cemetery . No chance frome me, a visit to a cemetery....but of course I gave in....absolutely fascinating visit...well worth it...You even haveto pay an entrance fee!.Even the cafe in the adjoining the cemetery serves good food. I think the Houses of Parliament are well worth a visit....if organised by your local MP, it is free. I once took 12 lively students around , guided by Mark Fisher MP....He was absolutely brilliant....passionate about the history and legends.Pugin..pointed out marks in walls allegedly made by sword fights, the original pottery tiles ( Spode I think)...then being replaced by Italian tiles...because we weren't able to do them anymore. If you do arrange to visit by contacting your MP...book a trip up the Elizabethan Tower at the same time, it can't be done on the same day. We also liked to go to Stamford Hill on a Sunday morning at a Jewish cafe. Ronnie Scott's is on my agenda for the next visit. Any other recommendations for places to go/ things to do in London. www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/highgate-cemeteryhighgatecemetery.org/highgatecemetery.org/visitI went to the Imperial War Museum for the first time last time, excellent half a day or more, close by is Lower Marsh Street which has a street market on most days, interesting/strange pub on that street if you're into musicals etc. they have some of the stage sets from the theatres, props etc in there, it's called Vaulty Towers. Hole in the Wall pub is quite close by too, one of my favourites from my forces days. |
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Post by elystokie on Sept 6, 2022 7:55:52 GMT
There was a programme on telly a while back that showed one of the Scandy prisons, looked quite literally like a holiday camp, they had houses in the grounds so that families could share weekend visits with the prisoners. It seemed very much a philosophy of rehabilitation as opposed to our system where they could be locked up for 23 hours a day every day. I was surprised at musik's figures, couldn't be arsed to check tho Little Venice is lovely particularly in the evening for a stroll and something to eat, Sky Garden for the best free views in London (you have to get a ticket online but they're free), Columbia Road Flower Market is great on a Sunday morning, Leadenhall Market, The Postal Museum and Mail Rail where you can explore some the underground tunnels in the railway system, Greenwich in general is my favourite part of London but they've just restored the Painted Hall inside the Old Royal Naval College which is spectacular. I've never known a city where you can visit so many times and find so many undiscovered churches, gardens, pubs, restaurants, cafes, monuments etc every time.......... Must go see that painted hall again then, went about 7 or 8 years ago and it was fantastic then, thanks for the heads up Greenwich really is an excellent visit. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 6, 2022 7:57:13 GMT
Little Venice is lovely particularly in the evening for a stroll and something to eat, Sky Garden for the best free views in London (you have to get a ticket online but they're free), Columbia Road Flower Market is great on a Sunday morning, Leadenhall Market, The Postal Museum and Mail Rail where you can explore some the underground tunnels in the railway system, Greenwich in general is my favourite part of London but they've just restored the Painted Hall inside the Old Royal Naval College which is spectacular. I've never known a city where you can visit so many times and find so many undiscovered churches, gardens, pubs, restaurants, cafes, monuments etc every time.......... Must go see that painted hall again then, went about 7 or 8 years ago and it was fantastic then, thanks for the heads up Greenwich really is an excellent visit. If I ever I needed to move to London, Greenwich is where I would choose........ |
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London
Sept 6, 2022 8:30:55 GMT
Post by felonious on Sept 6, 2022 8:30:55 GMT
I gather from reading the dreadful news from Saskatchewan yesterday that it has no systemic ongoing history of violence hence the complete sense of shock so perhaps not a good example. As for no go areas it's a shame that people on here defending London to the hilt aren't all over the Hanley threads in the same way. It's a strange old world..... Well I personally haven’t set foot in Hanley for about 15 years other than a couple of gigs at the Stage Door/Sugarmill so it wouldn’t be fair for me to comment on Hanley, I’ve probably been to London 60 times in that period. Not sure why people have to comment on both either way to be fair…… Well I suppose if there's one good thing about this thread it's established that Stoke On Trent ranks extremely highly in the safest towns, cities, etc in the country. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 6, 2022 8:44:37 GMT
Well I personally haven’t set foot in Hanley for about 15 years other than a couple of gigs at the Stage Door/Sugarmill so it wouldn’t be fair for me to comment on Hanley, I’ve probably been to London 60 times in that period. Not sure why people have to comment on both either way to be fair…… Well I suppose if there's one good thing about this thread it's established that Stoke On Trent ranks extremely highly in the safest towns, cities, etc in the country. Yep, although the rise in violence and sexual offences from 5,772 to 12,464 in 12 months should be a concern.......... |
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Post by elystokie on Sept 6, 2022 9:01:20 GMT
As far as the harms go, yes, talking drugs one is 114 times as dangerous overall as another. I think it's 45% overall not just for drugs but crime overall, however an awful lot of crime is drug related. 45% for crime overall. Gosh! 😲 Say that to the Swedish police. They would be over the moon. A police man said to me "at LEAST 85%, it's always the same people committing crimes here". They're even on tv here procaiming their right to build unions for their occupation. Scandi countries seem to have low rates generally, are you *sure* this policeman knew his stuff? This might be interesting for you www.encartele.net/2018/04/what-can-us-correctional-facilities-learn-from-scandinavian-jails/ |
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London
Sept 6, 2022 9:02:26 GMT
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Post by musik on Sept 6, 2022 9:02:26 GMT
Well I suppose if there's one good thing about this thread it's established that Stoke On Trent ranks extremely highly in the safest towns, cities, etc in the country. Yep, although the rise in violence and sexual offences from 5,772 to 12,464 in 12 months should be a concern.......... What has changed more during that time? |
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