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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 8, 2021 13:10:28 GMT
re the army of 2022 expirees: Davies, Gunn (loan) Smith, Tymon, Lindsay, Batth, BMI, Wimmer Woods, Allen, Thompson, Ndiaye, Clucas, Powell Ince, McClean Gregory, Vokes, Fletcher (plus Chester and Mikel if they get another year) The decision could well have been made with Davies for example, and that'll probably be that for Fletcher who'll be 35 - and certainly with all the ones who've been loaned out as well as Vokes - but as they enter the final year, you do wonder at what point we'll make a call on whether to give an extra year (on reduced terms) to the likes of Smith (30 in the summer of 2022), Batth (31), Allen (32), Clucas (31), McClean (33) - as well as Tymon and even Thompson? Is it unlikely in all cases? Or will we sneak an Allen extension in quietly? And when will that be communicated to them, one way or the other? Keep one of the keepers. Try and keep Powell. The rest can go. To early to make that call on Thompson. He is progressing OK in my opinion and depending on what level we find ourselves at come 2022, he is one, you would think, may well get himself a new, improved contract. Hopefully Powell will be on a longer contract by then. The rest I'd agree with you on but the Clucas call would prompt discussion. I've never been a fan of his but he does contribute goals so some would argue he'll be worth an extension. 18 months is a long time in football but you have to hope 2022 is the time that we can really clear the decks once and for all. If we did happen to get promotion next season, it would be nice and timely because we'd have the owners wealth and premier league millions to complete the rebuild. Either way, its a huge 18 months that lie ahead of us.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 13:12:04 GMT
I’m not sure about other clubs but I’d be surprised if any are looking at a turnover of that magnitude. 1/2 year contracts are the norm for leagues one and two. And then there’s a bit more structure at this level. I don’t see it as anything but good tbh. Powell and one of the goalies are the two must keeps. The rest are replaceable, easily so. We can only replace them if we find takers for them. If there are no takers, then we are looking at a dressing room full of demotivated players with half an eye on their next move. It’s not a good situation to be in at all.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 13:14:31 GMT
Keep one of the keepers. Try and keep Powell. The rest can go. To early to make that call on Thompson. He is progressing OK and in my opinion and depending on what level we find ourselves at come 2022, he is one, you would think, may well get himself a new, improved contract. Hopefully Powell will be on a longer contract by then. The rest I'd agree with you on but the Clucas call would prompt discussion. I've never been a fan of his but he does contribute goals so some would argue he'll be worth an extension. 18 months is a long time in football but you have to hope 2022 is the time that we can really clear the decks once and for all. If we did happen to get promotion next season, it would be nice and timely because we'd have the owners wealth and premier league millions to complete the rebuild. Either way, its a huge 18 months that lie ahead of us. If we get relegated then I’d keep him. He’s not good enough otherwise. Bad signing thus far. Clucas will be 32 won’t he? I like him but can’t see the value in keeping him beyond this deal unless it was cheap. There’s a few of them that are perfectly decent and good for the squad but none bar Powell even overly bother me. I’d like to think one of Allen/Clucas will be sold this summer and McClean too but fear it’s wishful thinking.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 13:15:11 GMT
1/2 year contracts are the norm for leagues one and two. And then there’s a bit more structure at this level. I don’t see it as anything but good tbh. Powell and one of the goalies are the two must keeps. The rest are replaceable, easily so. We can only replace them if we find takers for them. If there are no takers, then we are looking at a dressing room full of demotivated players with half an eye on their next move. It’s not a good situation to be in at all. Their contracts expire in 2022. I was talking about July 2022 when they’re gone.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 13:17:02 GMT
We can only replace them if we find takers for them. If there are no takers, then we are looking at a dressing room full of demotivated players with half an eye on their next move. It’s not a good situation to be in at all. Their contracts expire in 2022. I was talking about July 2022 when they’re gone. Yes but in the meantime how do we deal with these players? It’s no good to have so many with a year to go. We need to either move them on before their contracts expire, or extend their current deals.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 13:18:44 GMT
Their contracts expire in 2022. I was talking about July 2022 when they’re gone. Yes but in the meantime how do we deal with these players? It’s no good to have so many with a year to go. We need to either move them on before their contracts expire, or extend their current deals. They’re playing for a contract here or elsewhere. It should be fine.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 13:21:05 GMT
Yes but in the meantime how do we deal with these players? It’s no good to have so many with a year to go. We need to either move them on before their contracts expire, or extend their current deals. They’re playing for a contract here or elsewhere. It should be fine. I think there’s a real danger of them becoming demotivated.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 13:23:12 GMT
They’re playing for a contract here or elsewhere. It should be fine. I think there’s a real danger of them becoming demotivated. Why? They need to pay their bills etc. Most will be motivated for a new deal.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 13:29:57 GMT
I think there’s a real danger of them becoming demotivated. Why? They need to pay their bills etc. Most will be motivated for a new deal. They will be looking elsewhere. There’s no chance of the likes of Allen, Clucas, or McClean being offered deals on anything like the same terms that they are currently on.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2021 13:30:13 GMT
Given the amount of players out of contract in June 2022 , it's almost definitely another year of hoping, MoN can keep us in the championship, next season
There is no way he is going to be able to bring in an experienced proven championship striker, with that monkey on his back
Unless we make an inspired signing out of nowhere ( a mark stein , ric fuller , Jamie vardy , Ivan Toney type ) , it's going to be more of the same
It's absolutely one hundred percent cent not MoN's fault, but the deck has been stacked against him
The deck is stacked and for next season and it's stacked in favour of Sheffield United , Fulham , west brom , Bournemouth , Watford etc
Unfortunately for us , those teams don't have all their finances run by Tony scholes .They are not all going to blow their parachute payments .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2021 13:34:04 GMT
Why? They need to pay their bills etc. Most will be motivated for a new deal. They will be looking elsewhere. There’s no chance of the likes of Allen, Clucas, or McClean being offered deals on anything like the same terms that they are currently on. They are on a million quid a year plus , nobody in their right mind is going to pay them that much money apart from Stoke city . All they have to do is hang around , turn up for work , go through the motions and bank the cash , and financially their life is sorted .
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 13:37:30 GMT
Why? They need to pay their bills etc. Most will be motivated for a new deal. They will be looking elsewhere. There’s no chance of the likes of Allen, Clucas, or McClean being offered deals on anything like the same terms that they are currently on. They will still need to put performances in to get as close to it though. Or to even get a move to a level they want.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2021 13:38:39 GMT
Genuinely feel sorry for MoN , somebody else ( not him ) has completely messed up the finances of the club and made his job a thousand times harder, than it needs to be .
Fortunately for us , he is not the type to pass his day moaning and whining . He is going to roll his sleeves up and give it his best shot .
Good luck to him , he is going to need it .
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 13:40:45 GMT
They will be looking elsewhere. There’s no chance of the likes of Allen, Clucas, or McClean being offered deals on anything like the same terms that they are currently on. They will still need to put performances in to get as close to it though. Or to even get a move to a level they want. Not what you need in the trenches though is it? It’s going to compromise their commitment, even subconsciously. At that stage, they will be no different to season long loan players.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 13:43:33 GMT
Genuinely feel sorry for MoN , somebody else ( not him ) has completely messed up the finances of the club and made his job a thousand times harder, than it needs to be . Fortunately for us , he is not the type to pass his day moaning and whining . He is going to roll his sleeves up and give it his best shot . Good luck to him , he is going to need it . It’s a massive task. There’s a good chance of things getting worse before they get better.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 13:50:54 GMT
They will still need to put performances in to get as close to it though. Or to even get a move to a level they want. Not what you need in the trenches though is it? It’s going to compromise their commitment, even subconsciously. At that stage, they will be no different to season long loan players. It's not war so we'll be fine. I disagree, I think it'll make them put better performances in to convince someone (including us) to take them. And tbh with who they are, it won't matter. Gunn, Davies, Chester, Smith, Tymon, Batth, Allen, Mikel, Thompson, Clucas, Powell, McClean, Gregory, Vokes and Fletcher won't try any less. It's not who they are. Lindsay, BMI, Badou, Wimmer and Ince almost certainly won't be with us.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 14:12:41 GMT
Not what you need in the trenches though is it? It’s going to compromise their commitment, even subconsciously. At that stage, they will be no different to season long loan players. It's not war so we'll be fine. I disagree, I think it'll make them put better performances in to convince someone (including us) to take them. And tbh with who they are, it won't matter. Gunn, Davies, Chester, Smith, Tymon, Batth, Allen, Mikel, Thompson, Clucas, Powell, McClean, Gregory, Vokes and Fletcher won't try any less. It's not who they are. Lindsay, BMI, Badou, Wimmer and Ince almost certainly won't be with us. Nah it’s a potentially toxic situation. We need to move as many of the 2022 gang on ASAP.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 14:16:32 GMT
It's not war so we'll be fine. I disagree, I think it'll make them put better performances in to convince someone (including us) to take them. And tbh with who they are, it won't matter. Gunn, Davies, Chester, Smith, Tymon, Batth, Allen, Mikel, Thompson, Clucas, Powell, McClean, Gregory, Vokes and Fletcher won't try any less. It's not who they are. Lindsay, BMI, Badou, Wimmer and Ince almost certainly won't be with us. Nah it’s a potentially toxic situation. We need to move as many of the 2022 gang on ASAP. How? They're playing for their futures. Gunn is playing to prove he can still play for England. Davies will want to play to show he can play at this level. Smith won't want to drop a level. Ditto Allen. Tymon will want to prove he's good for this level or the one down. Batth is just a very good pro etc etc.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 14:21:51 GMT
Nah it’s a potentially toxic situation. We need to move as many of the 2022 gang on ASAP. How? They're playing for their futures. Gunn is playing to prove he can still play for England. Davies will want to play to show he can play at this level. Smith won't want to drop a level. Ditto Allen. Tymon will want to prove he's good for this level or the one down. Batth is just a very good pro etc etc. I don’t think that will be the case. There’s more of a chance of them being demotivated. Having a dressing room full of players with their futures up in the air simply cannot be a good thing. I’d look to offer deals to those who may be of some use like Davies, Smith, and certainly Powell but the rest need moving on if we have no interest (or simply can’t afford), in keeping them.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 14:30:09 GMT
How? They're playing for their futures. Gunn is playing to prove he can still play for England. Davies will want to play to show he can play at this level. Smith won't want to drop a level. Ditto Allen. Tymon will want to prove he's good for this level or the one down. Batth is just a very good pro etc etc. I don’t think that will be the case. There’s more of a chance of them being demotivated. Having a dressing room full of players with their futures up in the air simply cannot be a good thing. I’d look to offer deals to those who may be of some use like Davies, Smith, and certainly Powell but the rest need moving on if we have no interest (or simply can’t afford), in keeping them. What better motivation to get a new contract and carry on paying for your bills and not worrying about it? Yes a lot of them will be millionaires but will still have bills and mortgages to tend to. If we keep Gunn for next season, I'd hope we sell Davies. I just don't see how it's a demotivator. Indeed, having a 5 year deal and knowing whatever you do for the next 5 years you're set is way more of a demotivator. People play for contracts.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 8, 2021 14:32:27 GMT
To early to make that call on Thompson. He is progressing OK and in my opinion and depending on what level we find ourselves at come 2022, he is one, you would think, may well get himself a new, improved contract. Hopefully Powell will be on a longer contract by then. The rest I'd agree with you on but the Clucas call would prompt discussion. I've never been a fan of his but he does contribute goals so some would argue he'll be worth an extension. 18 months is a long time in football but you have to hope 2022 is the time that we can really clear the decks once and for all. If we did happen to get promotion next season, it would be nice and timely because we'd have the owners wealth and premier league millions to complete the rebuild. Either way, its a huge 18 months that lie ahead of us. If we get relegated then I’d keep him. He’s not good enough otherwise. Bad signing thus far. Clucas will be 32 won’t he? I like him but can’t see the value in keeping him beyond this deal unless it was cheap. There’s a few of them that are perfectly decent and good for the squad but none bar Powell even overly bother me. I’d like to think one of Allen/Clucas will be sold this summer and McClean too but fear it’s wishful thinking. Harsh on Thompson that. He's not let us down this season when called upon. Like you, in reality, I don't really care who goes from that lot. If they all went, there is only Powell, truly, who you would want to keep no matter what.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 14:39:48 GMT
I don’t think that will be the case. There’s more of a chance of them being demotivated. Having a dressing room full of players with their futures up in the air simply cannot be a good thing. I’d look to offer deals to those who may be of some use like Davies, Smith, and certainly Powell but the rest need moving on if we have no interest (or simply can’t afford), in keeping them. What better motivation to get a new contract and carry on paying for your bills and not worrying about it? Yes a lot of them will be millionaires but will still have bills and mortgages to tend to. If we keep Gunn for next season, I'd hope we sell Davies. I just don't see how it's a demotivator. Indeed, having a 5 year deal and knowing whatever you do for the next 5 years you're set is way more of a demotivator. People play for contracts. You’ll see a situation unravel whereby players will want to know if the club intend to offer them a new deal or not. Actually, this has probably started to happen already. If the answer is no, then these players and their advisors will be spending the summer looking for new clubs. I really hope that the vast bulk of those players are moved on in the summer somehow because I don’t see us being able to progress and start again until they are gone.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Mar 8, 2021 14:41:06 GMT
Given the amount of players out of contract in June 2022 , it's almost definitely another year of hoping, MoN can keep us in the championship, next season There is no way he is going to be able to bring in an experienced proven championship striker, with that monkey on his back Unless we make an inspired signing out of nowhere ( a mark stein , ric fuller , Jamie vardy , Ivan Toney type ) , it's going to be more of the same It's absolutely one hundred percent cent not MoN's fault, but the deck has been stacked against him The deck is stacked and for next season and it's stacked in favour of Sheffield United , Fulham , west brom , Bournemouth , Watford etc Unfortunately for us , those teams don't have all their finances run by Tony scholes .They are not all going to blow their parachute payments . Yes next season will be another tough one financially. Most likely 45% or so of our budget will go on players on loan. Unless we can sell we will mainly be relying on loans
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 14:51:41 GMT
If we get relegated then I’d keep him. He’s not good enough otherwise. Bad signing thus far. Clucas will be 32 won’t he? I like him but can’t see the value in keeping him beyond this deal unless it was cheap. There’s a few of them that are perfectly decent and good for the squad but none bar Powell even overly bother me. I’d like to think one of Allen/Clucas will be sold this summer and McClean too but fear it’s wishful thinking. Harsh on Thompson that. He's not let us down this season when called upon. Like you, in reality, I don't really care who goes from that lot. If they all went, there is only Powell, truly, who you would want to keep no matter what. He's been 5/6 out of 10 yeah but I don't see any difference between him playing there or Tymon. On the whole they're all alright and alongside better players make good bits and pieces players but with that they're all replaceable bar Powell.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 14:53:53 GMT
What better motivation to get a new contract and carry on paying for your bills and not worrying about it? Yes a lot of them will be millionaires but will still have bills and mortgages to tend to. If we keep Gunn for next season, I'd hope we sell Davies. I just don't see how it's a demotivator. Indeed, having a 5 year deal and knowing whatever you do for the next 5 years you're set is way more of a demotivator. People play for contracts. You’ll see a situation unravel whereby players will want to know if the club intend to offer them a new deal or not. Actually, this has probably started to happen already. If the answer is no, then these players and their advisors will be spending the summer looking for new clubs. I really hope that the vast bulk of those players are moved on in the summer somehow because I don’t see us being able to progress and start again until they are gone. And if we don't they have 2 motivators - prove the club wrong and earn a deal elsewhere. And that just isn't going to happen but it won't be a problem in the slightest.
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Post by onionman on Mar 8, 2021 15:07:01 GMT
re the army of 2022 expirees: Davies, Gunn (loan) Smith, Tymon, Lindsay, Batth, BMI, Wimmer Woods, Allen, Thompson, Ndiaye, Clucas, Powell Ince, McClean Gregory, Vokes, Fletcher (plus Chester and Mikel if they get another year) The decision could well have been made with Davies for example, and that'll probably be that for Fletcher who'll be 35 - and certainly with all the ones who've been loaned out as well as Vokes - but as they enter the final year, you do wonder at what point we'll make a call on whether to give an extra year (on reduced terms) to the likes of Smith (30 in the summer of 2022), Batth (31), Allen (32), Clucas (31), McClean (33) - as well as Tymon and even Thompson? Is it unlikely in all cases? Or will we sneak an Allen extension in quietly? And when will that be communicated to them, one way or the other? If we sneak in a contract extension for Joe Allen, I aim to be the first to suggest it must be written into his contract to have a contract extension whenever it looks like his contract might run out.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 8, 2021 15:15:26 GMT
re the army of 2022 expirees: Davies, Gunn (loan) Smith, Tymon, Lindsay, Batth, BMI, Wimmer Woods, Allen, Thompson, Ndiaye, Clucas, Powell Ince, McClean Gregory, Vokes, Fletcher (plus Chester and Mikel if they get another year) The decision could well have been made with Davies for example, and that'll probably be that for Fletcher who'll be 35 - and certainly with all the ones who've been loaned out as well as Vokes - but as they enter the final year, you do wonder at what point we'll make a call on whether to give an extra year (on reduced terms) to the likes of Smith (30 in the summer of 2022), Batth (31), Allen (32), Clucas (31), McClean (33) - as well as Tymon and even Thompson? Is it unlikely in all cases? Or will we sneak an Allen extension in quietly? And when will that be communicated to them, one way or the other? If we sneak in a contract extension for Joe Allen, I aim to be the first to suggest it must be written into his contract to have a contract extension whenever it looks like his contract might run out. The Michael Tonge clause www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/couldnt-further-truth-ex-stoke-4019347"He (Pulis) was alright in the end because I didn't play for a couple of years and then he gave me another year for no apparent reason,"
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2021 15:23:53 GMT
You’ll see a situation unravel whereby players will want to know if the club intend to offer them a new deal or not. Actually, this has probably started to happen already. If the answer is no, then these players and their advisors will be spending the summer looking for new clubs. I really hope that the vast bulk of those players are moved on in the summer somehow because I don’t see us being able to progress and start again until they are gone. And if we don't they have 2 motivators - prove the club wrong and earn a deal elsewhere. And that just isn't going to happen but it won't be a problem in the slightest. The younger ones might see it that way, but I’d expect Tymon to get another year and we will see Thompson offered a new deal. The older ones are more likely to sulk and down tools.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 8, 2021 15:28:08 GMT
And if we don't they have 2 motivators - prove the club wrong and earn a deal elsewhere. And that just isn't going to happen but it won't be a problem in the slightest. The younger ones might see it that way, but I’d expect Tymon to get another year and we will see Thompson offered a new deal. The older ones are more likely to sulk and down tools. I think Thompson will sadly, not sure about Tymon. I just don't see it like that, they're not the sort of players who would do that. And they still have stuff to play for.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 8, 2021 18:12:46 GMT
And if we don't they have 2 motivators - prove the club wrong and earn a deal elsewhere. And that just isn't going to happen but it won't be a problem in the slightest. The younger ones might see it that way, but I’d expect Tymon to get another year and we will see Thompson offered a new deal. The older ones are more likely to sulk and down tools. If we get to offering Tymon another year then we really are in the shit.
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