|
Post by Veritas on Jul 25, 2020 18:03:20 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary Needs to move on for both his and our sakes, but when/if he moves on, he will go with my best wishes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets back to the form we know he is capable of at his new club. Not sure where all the bad attitude stuff comes from as from what I've heard and seen he seems a decent bloke He was never that good in the first place He was
|
|
|
Post by silsdenstokie on Jul 25, 2020 18:06:24 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary Needs to move on for both his and our sakes, but when/if he moves on, he will go with my best wishes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets back to the form we know he is capable of at his new club. Not sure where all the bad attitude stuff comes from as from what I've heard and seen he seems a decent bloke He was never that good in the first place International class so I would beg to differ
|
|
|
Butland
Jul 25, 2020 21:48:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 21:48:55 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary Needs to move on for both his and our sakes, but when/if he moves on, he will go with my best wishes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets back to the form we know he is capable of at his new club. Not sure where all the bad attitude stuff comes from as from what I've heard and seen he seems a decent bloke He was never that good in the first place You dunna deserve football.
|
|
|
Butland
Jul 25, 2020 23:08:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by longdistancekiddie on Jul 25, 2020 23:08:30 GMT
He was never that good in the first place International class so I would beg to differ International with the kids
|
|
|
Butland
Jul 25, 2020 23:27:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2020 23:27:36 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary Needs to move on for both his and our sakes, but when/if he moves on, he will go with my best wishes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets back to the form we know he is capable of at his new club. Not sure where all the bad attitude stuff comes from as from what I've heard and seen he seems a decent bloke 3 seasons isn’t bad form is it?
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Jul 26, 2020 2:47:14 GMT
He was never that good in the first place You dunna deserve football. I do not deserve football Because I never believed all the hype over butland A real top class keeper needs to comand his defence and area Sadly a keeper now days has to be almost as good with his feet as his hands something butland has always lacked Yes butland was a very good shot stoper for a long while And earned Stoke some very valuable points But so did begovic and sorro But in my opinion butland has always not been vocal enough and always had poor ball distribution skills
|
|
|
Post by thisisouryear on Jul 26, 2020 8:20:21 GMT
You dunna deserve football. I do not deserve football Because I never believed all the hype over butland A real top class keeper needs to comand his defence and area Sadly a keeper now days has to be almost as good with his feet as his hands something butland has always lacked Yes butland was a very good shot stoper for a long while And earned Stoke some very valuable points But so did begovic and sorro But in my opinion butland has always not been vocal enough and always had poor ball distribution skills When I think of a keepers job I think they should be the equivalent to a conductor. The keeper has the best view of the field and they should get the defence in tune with eachother to stop the opposition from getting a shot on goal. It shouldn't just be about standing between the posts waiting for a shot on goal which seems to be what Butland does and perhaps that's common for all keepers. They should be able to reduce the number of shots on goal and save most of the opportunities that break through just by being able to read the game and the oppositions attacks. For me Butland has poor awareness, his positioning at times is poor, he's flat footed and you get the impression he's protecting his face more than the defence. He lacks bravery by commanding his area on set pieces, shocking at penalties, I don't feel that confident about much of his game to be honest. He's a conference keeper based on his form the last couple of seasons.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 10:15:59 GMT
You dunna deserve football. I do not deserve football Because I never believed all the hype over butland A real top class keeper needs to comand his defence and area Sadly a keeper now days has to be almost as good with his feet as his hands something butland has always lacked Yes butland was a very good shot stoper for a long while And earned Stoke some very valuable points But so did begovic and sorro But in my opinion butland has always not been vocal enough and always had poor ball distribution skills You should embrace the fact we had England's no 1 playing for us not fantasise over the fact that you always knew he was never that good despite you never ever saying this when he actually was that good.
|
|
|
Post by cheekymatt71 on Jul 26, 2020 11:29:54 GMT
He does have many weaknesses when you look at without rose tinted spectacles.
Worst keeper at penalties I've ever seen. That's not confidence just bad anticipation.
Never leaves his goal line to.claim crosses.
Terrible at one on one's where he comes out too late and too slow
Poor kicking and distribution
But he is a good shot stopper.
|
|
|
Post by iglugluk on Jul 26, 2020 11:40:56 GMT
A good friend of mine is married to a close friend of Jack's sister and he is a decent bloke by all accounts. Needs a move though as he's definitely gone stale at Stoke. Hope he gets one this summer as he will represent a potentially excellent keeper for another club
|
|
|
Post by silsdenstokie on Jul 26, 2020 12:29:16 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary Needs to move on for both his and our sakes, but when/if he moves on, he will go with my best wishes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets back to the form we know he is capable of at his new club. Not sure where all the bad attitude stuff comes from as from what I've heard and seen he seems a decent bloke 3 seasons isn’t bad form is it? Aye, it's been a while and something just hasn't been quite right with him That said, you don't get selected for England (albeit a bit back now) if you are shit. Guess some of the defences he's had in front of him haven't helped the cause either Still think there's a good keeper in there and a change of scenery could bring out the best of him again
|
|
|
Post by drfootball on Jul 26, 2020 12:33:30 GMT
He does have many weaknesses when you look at without rose tinted spectacles. Worst keeper at penalties I've ever seen. That's not confidence just bad anticipation. Never leaves his goal line to.claim crosses. Terrible at one on one's where he comes out too late and too slow Poor kicking and distribution But he is a good shot stopper. You've forgotton weak at the near post. Gone from being one of the top 3 English keepers to barely being in the top 3 keepers at Stoke.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2020 12:34:15 GMT
3 seasons isn’t bad form is it? Aye, it's been a while and something just hasn't been quite right with him That said, you don't get selected for England (albeit a bit back now) if you are shit. Guess some of the defences he's had in front of him haven't helped the cause either Still think there's a good keeper in there and a change of scenery could bring out the best of him again There’s plenty of players I’d argue who are shit that play for England 😂the current #1 being one of them and I honestly wouldn’t be overly enamoured with having him here! But yeah he had that really good season and a steady career to then although when he first played for us he looked dodgy as anything and I remember thinking what have we bought but it was fine because he was young. He definitely needs a change of scenery but he just looks shot and is he strong enough to come back from that? The evidence from how he gets with fans when they’re rightfully having a go says to me that he isn’t.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 12:45:49 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary Needs to move on for both his and our sakes, but when/if he moves on, he will go with my best wishes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets back to the form we know he is capable of at his new club. Not sure where all the bad attitude stuff comes from as from what I've heard and seen he seems a decent bloke I disagree that he "needs to move on for both his and our sakes". What he needs to is get his head back together and find a rich vein of form. His heart is in the right place. He hasn't been throwing tantrums or hiding from his mistakes, and, as captain, he was still able to lead us out on occasions when we did well. Question is if he's prepared to be behind Davies when the new season starts, or if Davies is prepared to be second again, if Butland's pre season form is better. The bigger problem about preparing ourselves for letting him go is that a) he can't be sold because he's on a free in 12 months b) clubs won't sign him even on a free because they can't pay the wages Jack demands. So it would be better to stop all this phantasizsing about a move, and have Jack, gk coach (can't remember the new guy's name) and O'Neill work together towards re-establishing him here and then work out details of a new contract. If class is indeed permanent, then Jack has shown enough of it in his early to mid twenties not to be able to find it again. I firmly believe in him!
|
|
|
Post by bolders on Jul 26, 2020 12:52:38 GMT
Sell to west ham £5M+
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Jul 26, 2020 13:02:51 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary Needs to move on for both his and our sakes, but when/if he moves on, he will go with my best wishes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets back to the form we know he is capable of at his new club. Not sure where all the bad attitude stuff comes from as from what I've heard and seen he seems a decent bloke I disagree that he "needs to move on for both his and our sakes". What he needs to is get his head back together and find a rich vein of form. His heart is in the right place. He hasn't been throwing tantrums or hiding from his mistakes, and, as captain, he was still able to lead us out on occasions when we did well. Question is if he's prepared to be behind Davies when the new season starts, or if Davies is prepared to be second again, if Butland's pre season form is better. The bigger problem about preparing ourselves for letting him go is that a) he can't be sold because he's on a free in 12 months b) clubs won't sign him even on a free because they can't pay the wages Jack demands. So it would be better to stop all this phantasizsing about a move, and have Jack, gk coach (can't remember the new guy's name) and O'Neill work together towards re-establishing him here and then work out details of a new contract. If class is indeed permanent, then Jack has shown enough of it in his early to mid twenties not to be able to find it again. I firmly believe in him! I have no idea where the idea class is permanent, form is temporary came from. But it’s just not true. A serious injury like the one Butland suffered can ruin a player’s career. If you don’t believe it you need look no further than Bojan. The greatest keeper of all time tried to play with one eye. It didn’t work.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Jul 26, 2020 13:20:04 GMT
I disagree that he "needs to move on for both his and our sakes". What he needs to is get his head back together and find a rich vein of form. His heart is in the right place. He hasn't been throwing tantrums or hiding from his mistakes, and, as captain, he was still able to lead us out on occasions when we did well. Question is if he's prepared to be behind Davies when the new season starts, or if Davies is prepared to be second again, if Butland's pre season form is better. The bigger problem about preparing ourselves for letting him go is that a) he can't be sold because he's on a free in 12 months b) clubs won't sign him even on a free because they can't pay the wages Jack demands. So it would be better to stop all this phantasizsing about a move, and have Jack, gk coach (can't remember the new guy's name) and O'Neill work together towards re-establishing him here and then work out details of a new contract. If class is indeed permanent, then Jack has shown enough of it in his early to mid twenties not to be able to find it again. I firmly believe in him! I have no idea where the idea class is permanent, form is temporary came from. But it’s just not true. A serious injury like the one Butland suffered can ruin a player’s career. If you don’t believe it you need look no further than Bojan. The greatest keeper of all time tried to play with one eye. It didn’t work. For the billionth time Bojan returned from his injury and was superb as part of the BMX
|
|
|
Post by Fred Merger on Jul 26, 2020 13:29:03 GMT
Has he gone yet? 😎
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 13:54:37 GMT
I disagree that he "needs to move on for both his and our sakes". What he needs to is get his head back together and find a rich vein of form. His heart is in the right place. He hasn't been throwing tantrums or hiding from his mistakes, and, as captain, he was still able to lead us out on occasions when we did well. Question is if he's prepared to be behind Davies when the new season starts, or if Davies is prepared to be second again, if Butland's pre season form is better. The bigger problem about preparing ourselves for letting him go is that a) he can't be sold because he's on a free in 12 months b) clubs won't sign him even on a free because they can't pay the wages Jack demands. So it would be better to stop all this phantasizsing about a move, and have Jack, gk coach (can't remember the new guy's name) and O'Neill work together towards re-establishing him here and then work out details of a new contract. If class is indeed permanent, then Jack has shown enough of it in his early to mid twenties not to be able to find it again. I firmly believe in him! I have no idea where the idea class is permanent, form is temporary came from. But it’s just not true. A serious injury like the one Butland suffered can ruin a player’s career. If you don’t believe it you need look no further than Bojan. The greatest keeper of all time tried to play with one eye. It didn’t work. That's the worst possible example you could list because I strongly believe Bojan came back a better player after his injury. Different, but better. What ruined his career was a succession of managers afraid of him upstaging their plans, all of which by the way didn't work for us. More faith in Bojan and we'd still have been in the PL.
|
|
|
Post by silsdenstokie on Jul 26, 2020 15:09:58 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary Needs to move on for both his and our sakes, but when/if he moves on, he will go with my best wishes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he gets back to the form we know he is capable of at his new club. Not sure where all the bad attitude stuff comes from as from what I've heard and seen he seems a decent bloke I disagree that he "needs to move on for both his and our sakes". What he needs to is get his head back together and find a rich vein of form. His heart is in the right place. He hasn't been throwing tantrums or hiding from his mistakes, and, as captain, he was still able to lead us out on occasions when we did well. Question is if he's prepared to be behind Davies when the new season starts, or if Davies is prepared to be second again, if Butland's pre season form is better. The bigger problem about preparing ourselves for letting him go is that a) he can't be sold because he's on a free in 12 months b) clubs won't sign him even on a free because they can't pay the wages Jack demands. So it would be better to stop all this phantasizsing about a move, and have Jack, gk coach (can't remember the new guy's name) and O'Neill work together towards re-establishing him here and then work out details of a new contract. If class is indeed permanent, then Jack has shown enough of it in his early to mid twenties not to be able to find it again. I firmly believe in him! Don't disagree with most of that. In an ideal world we'd sell him for a decent fee but as you say it's unlikely to happen I'll be behind him for as long as he stays with us. Just find it a bit sad the way it's gone for him this last couple of years
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 17:03:21 GMT
I disagree that he "needs to move on for both his and our sakes". What he needs to is get his head back together and find a rich vein of form. His heart is in the right place. He hasn't been throwing tantrums or hiding from his mistakes, and, as captain, he was still able to lead us out on occasions when we did well. Question is if he's prepared to be behind Davies when the new season starts, or if Davies is prepared to be second again, if Butland's pre season form is better. The bigger problem about preparing ourselves for letting him go is that a) he can't be sold because he's on a free in 12 months b) clubs won't sign him even on a free because they can't pay the wages Jack demands. So it would be better to stop all this phantasizsing about a move, and have Jack, gk coach (can't remember the new guy's name) and O'Neill work together towards re-establishing him here and then work out details of a new contract. If class is indeed permanent, then Jack has shown enough of it in his early to mid twenties not to be able to find it again. I firmly believe in him! Don't disagree with most of that. In an ideal world we'd sell him for a decent fee but as you say it's unlikely to happen I'll be behind him for as long as he stays with us. Just find it a bit sad the way it's gone for him this last couple of years If there's a manager that can make a player believe in himself again - well I'm sure there's others - it's definitely Michael O'Neill. Just look at what he's done for Tymon, whose self belief was well below zero a few months ago.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jul 28, 2020 9:07:44 GMT
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Jul 28, 2020 9:08:33 GMT
If possible, YES!
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jul 28, 2020 9:15:06 GMT
If possible, YES! I think the best he'll do is Championship. But trying to come up with a Champ team who'll pull the trigger and go for him is pretty hard. The fact he's in the last year of his deal will probably focus his mind - and it may be he'll have to get used to an average Championship wage at an average Championship club. And I can't see how we could ask for much at all as a fee? Can't see his next wage being anywhere near his current one, even taking into account his massive relegation wage drop.
|
|
|
Butland
Jul 28, 2020 9:23:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 9:23:50 GMT
Butland’s flaws have always been apparent. I remember a few years back the hope was that he’d be able to go through a similar transformation to De Gea, who was also very weak in the air when he started at Man Utd but then improved massively and became one of the best GKs in the world for a while. (Also going through a similar nightmare spell himself currently)
Sadly, Butland never matured and, this season especially, has seemingly lost the attributes that made him such a hot prospect in the first place.
However, whilst this season has been admittedly catastrophic, I can remember last season thinking many times to myself “thank god we’ve got Jack as we might be in a relegation battle otherwise”.
Whatever MON decides I’ll trust. However, even if he and Jack have decided it’s best to find a move, I just can’t envisage anyone stumping up the money we’d want. I also won’t be surprised if MON decides Butland still has a future here. I’d love it if Butland can turn things around and get his career back on track with us because there is still a very good keeper in there - certainly one capable of being decent at our current level - but it does seem like a long shot.
|
|
|
Butland
Jul 28, 2020 9:37:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by neddy on Jul 28, 2020 9:37:57 GMT
I think he’ll run his contract down?
|
|
|
Butland
Jul 28, 2020 9:43:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by telfordstokie on Jul 28, 2020 9:43:03 GMT
Wonder if Bournemouth might come in for him, didn’t they bid £12m last summer? Plus you’d think Ramsdale has a good chance of a Premier League move.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 9:49:01 GMT
Don't be surprised if Butland flourishes at his next club. I do think he has lost some of his agility on the back of his serious injury, but I honestly think most of it is in his head. He's mentally shot at Stoke, and moving on will be the best thing for all parties. If someone gets him for a few million they'll get a bargain I'm sure of it.....
|
|
hotpot
Youth Player
Posts: 428
|
Post by hotpot on Jul 30, 2020 0:47:37 GMT
Just sell him.
|
|
|
Butland
Jul 30, 2020 7:02:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by Goonie on Jul 30, 2020 7:02:19 GMT
Don't be surprised if Butland flourishes at his next club. I do think he has lost some of his agility on the back of his serious injury, but I honestly think most of it is in his head. He's mentally shot at Stoke, and moving on will be the best thing for all parties. If someone gets him for a few million they'll get a bargain I'm sure of it..... If Carlsberg did transfers! £12m fee too 🤣
|
|