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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 16, 2023 7:01:54 GMT
Looking to scrap the second phase? You couldn't make it up! An idiotic, unaffordable, vanity project. About time. Not too late to ditch the London Bham section either before they damage more countryside and blow more public money. Money that would be better spent on the NHS or local aurhorities so they can avoid having to cut back adult and childrens social care and other vital services. Lots more local authorities of all colours going bust soon, just watch. |
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 16, 2023 10:10:06 GMT
Looking to scrap the second phase? You couldn't make it up! An idiotic, unaffordable, vanity project. About time. Not too late to ditch the London Bham section either before they damage more countryside and blow more public money. Money that would be better spent on the NHS or local aurhorities so they can avoid having to cut back adult and childrens social care and other vital services. Lots more local authorities of all colours going bust soon, just watch. I think it's too late now, they've caused irreparable damage to huge parts of the country. Someone making a lot of money out this somewhere. Maybe it's the same guy whose is charging the Government £20k a day for the next 18 months to keep the Migrant ship in his port in Dorset! |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 16, 2023 16:30:40 GMT
About time. Not too late to ditch the London Bham section either before they damage more countryside and blow more public money. Money that would be better spent on the NHS or local aurhorities so they can avoid having to cut back adult and childrens social care and other vital services. Lots more local authorities of all colours going bust soon, just watch. I think it's too late now, they've caused irreparable damage to huge parts of the country. Someone making a lot of money out this somewhere. Maybe it's the same guy whose is charging the Government £20k a day for the next 18 months to keep the Migrant ship in his port in Dorset! A lot of it is about giving the construction sector a big boost. Lord knows the state it'd be in without this enormous costly public money project propping it up and boosting the economy. |
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Post by britsabroad on Sept 18, 2023 10:10:43 GMT
It's all become a bad joke. We could have had something to be proud of, a world leading rail line connecting the country and relieving pressure on the WCML. Instead nimby lobbying has resulted in it becoming an isolated white elephant, ironically what they campaigned against in the first place. Much of the cost of the line from Birmingham to Old Oak Common has already been spent so no point cancelling that and it will be all we get.
You have to blame the Tories again. They should have told opponents to stuff it and we would be halfway to having a world class piece of infrastructure by now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2023 10:28:53 GMT
It's all become a bad joke. We could have had something to be proud of, a world leading rail line connecting the country and relieving pressure on the WCML. Instead nimby lobbying has resulted in it becoming an isolated white elephant, ironically what they campaigned against in the first place. Much of the cost of the line from Birmingham to Old Oak Common has already been spent so no point cancelling that and it will be all we get. You have to blame the Tories again. They should have told opponents to stuff it and we would be halfway to having a world class piece of infrastructure by now. It was a pie-in-the-sky project which never really convinced re: the benefits we'd see overall, especially in 'The North'. I'm not sure we needed a world-class infrastructure to begin with, we just needed a modified, updated & reliable one. You can get from Stoke to London in an hour, in a local context, was never a good enough reason to spend £sqillions, rip up green belt, etc. If there was a project that epitomised this Government, this is it. |
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Post by AlliG on Sept 18, 2023 10:42:54 GMT
It's all become a bad joke. We could have had something to be proud of, a world leading rail line connecting the country and relieving pressure on the WCML. Instead nimby lobbying has resulted in it becoming an isolated white elephant, ironically what they campaigned against in the first place. Much of the cost of the line from Birmingham to Old Oak Common has already been spent so no point cancelling that and it will be all we get. You have to blame the Tories again. They should have told opponents to stuff it and we would be halfway to having a world class piece of infrastructure by now."Halfway to having a world class piece of infrastructure" sounds about right for this Government. |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 18, 2023 10:45:45 GMT
It's all become a bad joke. We could have had something to be proud of, a world leading rail line connecting the country and relieving pressure on the WCML. Instead nimby lobbying has resulted in it becoming an isolated white elephant, ironically what they campaigned against in the first place. Much of the cost of the line from Birmingham to Old Oak Common has already been spent so no point cancelling that and it will be all we get. You have to blame the Tories again. They should have told opponents to stuff it and we would be halfway to having a world class piece of infrastructure by now. While I agree HS2 has become a colossal waste of money and also agree with the reasons why Even if HS2 had delivered as promised it would hardly have been "world Leading" when you consider Japan introduced its first in 1964 and now has 9. There are High Speed Rail Links all over Europe even Russia Saudi Arabia Turkey South Korea and of course China has more Kms of High Speed tracks in the World |
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Post by britsabroad on Sept 18, 2023 11:07:39 GMT
It's all become a bad joke. We could have had something to be proud of, a world leading rail line connecting the country and relieving pressure on the WCML. Instead nimby lobbying has resulted in it becoming an isolated white elephant, ironically what they campaigned against in the first place. Much of the cost of the line from Birmingham to Old Oak Common has already been spent so no point cancelling that and it will be all we get. You have to blame the Tories again. They should have told opponents to stuff it and we would be halfway to having a world class piece of infrastructure by now. While I agree HS2 has become a colossal waste of money and also agree with the reasons why Even if HS2 had delivered as promised it would hardly have been "world Leading" when you consider Japan introduced its first in 1964 and now has 9. There are High Speed Rail Links all over Europe even Russia Saudi Arabia Turkey South Korea and of course China has more Kms of High Speed tracks in the World It was to be the fastest line to date and one of the few that could also run on conventional track. Forget the speed. One way or another, the country needs another North to South railway line. With HS2 binned off this generation is now stuck with the existing outdated and congested WCML for life. Like Heathrow really. Nobody wants to build anything anymore because they might lose a few votes from whatever lobby group happens to take issue with it. |
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 18, 2023 11:37:58 GMT
As a supporter of HS2 for all the reasons explained on other HS2 threads, I post the link below to remind people where the political parties stood 6 years ago. roger-hannah.co.uk/articles/where-does-each-political-party-stand-on-hs2/Naturally parties can and will change their point of view. SNP were in favour until they found that Scotland would not benefit. The Greens are the only party to consistently oppose the project, which is ironic as the reason the scheme is so expensive is to reduce damage to the environment by for example extensive tunneling. Plus, when it is finished, it will result in more natural habitat, less environmental damage due to motorways, and release the old Victorian mainline for local commuting and goods traffic. By separating fast and slow rail traffic, the rail network can be utilised far more extensively and efficiently. Other politicians will take any opportunist chance of supporting something that wins votes for themselves. Other HS2 benefits include huge investments as a consequence of the project such as the area East of Birmingham. It is not just about knocking 10 minutes of journey time. The projects, like the Elizabeth line, have boosted our rail industry including winning exports, as well as boosting the local economy. The UK has lagged behind much of the world in investing in infrastructure, its high time we made major long term investments such as rail, sewerage, hospitals, reservoirs (water shortages will be coming), etc. and not just keep building/widening motorways. But you need to generate wealth to pay for it. The only area we are a leading nation is wind power generation, but even there future progress is hampered by the lack of power transmission capability. I fully expect to hear wails of moaning from NIMBYs when the power lines needed start getting errcted in droves across the countryside. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 18, 2023 11:43:58 GMT
As a supporter of HS2 for all the reasons explained on other HS2 threads, I post the link below to remind people where the political parties stood 6 years ago. roger-hannah.co.uk/articles/where-does-each-political-party-stand-on-hs2/Naturally parties can and will change their point of view. SNP were in favour until they found that Scotland would not benefit. The Greens are the only party to consistently oppose the project, which is ironic as the reason the scheme is so expensive is to reduce damage to the environment by for example extensive tunneling. Plus, when it is finished, it will result in more natural habitat, less environmental damage due to motorways, and release the old Victorian mainline for local commuting and goods traffic. By separating fast and slow rail traffic, the rail network can be utilised far more extensively and efficiently. Other politicians will take any opportunist chance of supporting something that wins votes for themselves. Other HS2 benefits include huge investments as a consequence of the project such as the area East of Birmingham. It is not just about knocking 10 minutes of journey time. The projects, like the Elizabeth line, have boosted our rail industry including winning exports, as well as boosting the local economy. The UK has lagged behind much of the world in investing in infrastructure, its high time we made major long term investments such as rail, sewerage, hospitals, reservoirs (water shortages will be coming), etc. and not just keep building/widening motorways. But you need to generate wealth to pay for it. The only area we are a leading nation is wind power generation, but even there future progress is hampered by the lack of power transmission capability. I fully expect to hear wails of moaning from NIMBYs when the power lines needed start getting errcted in droves across the countryside. Brexit, HS2 and you voted Tory at the last election. You're having a mare, Coke 😬 |
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 18, 2023 12:13:40 GMT
As a supporter of HS2 for all the reasons explained on other HS2 threads, I post the link below to remind people where the political parties stood 6 years ago. roger-hannah.co.uk/articles/where-does-each-political-party-stand-on-hs2/Naturally parties can and will change their point of view. SNP were in favour until they found that Scotland would not benefit. The Greens are the only party to consistently oppose the project, which is ironic as the reason the scheme is so expensive is to reduce damage to the environment by for example extensive tunneling. Plus, when it is finished, it will result in more natural habitat, less environmental damage due to motorways, and release the old Victorian mainline for local commuting and goods traffic. By separating fast and slow rail traffic, the rail network can be utilised far more extensively and efficiently. Other politicians will take any opportunist chance of supporting something that wins votes for themselves. Other HS2 benefits include huge investments as a consequence of the project such as the area East of Birmingham. It is not just about knocking 10 minutes of journey time. The projects, like the Elizabeth line, have boosted our rail industry including winning exports, as well as boosting the local economy. The UK has lagged behind much of the world in investing in infrastructure, its high time we made major long term investments such as rail, sewerage, hospitals, reservoirs (water shortages will be coming), etc. and not just keep building/widening motorways. But you need to generate wealth to pay for it. The only area we are a leading nation is wind power generation, but even there future progress is hampered by the lack of power transmission capability. I fully expect to hear wails of moaning from NIMBYs when the power lines needed start getting errcted in droves across the countryside. Brexit, HS2 and you voted Tory at the last election. You're having a mare, Coke 😬 Not in the least. I voted for Boris to "Get Brexit Done" - job done; Boris can now clear off , he's served his purpose. I'll vote for whoever suits my purpose at the next GE. I used to be an active member of the old Liberal Party. Starmer says he will get Brexit to work, but as my Brexit review spells out, it is working quite nicely. I'm very happy British law is not now dictated by Brussels. HS2 announcement in the budget awaits, but as a former businessman I fully appreciate you can only spend so much capital investment; given a pandemic, NHS in a mess, record sickness, a war in progress, natural disaster after disaster,/weather extremes, strikes, (what McMillan called "events") its remarkable the country is not running up more debt than it is. Fortunately the government is getting record revenue. |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 18, 2023 12:28:01 GMT
While I agree HS2 has become a colossal waste of money and also agree with the reasons why Even if HS2 had delivered as promised it would hardly have been "world Leading" when you consider Japan introduced its first in 1964 and now has 9. There are High Speed Rail Links all over Europe even Russia Saudi Arabia Turkey South Korea and of course China has more Kms of High Speed tracks in the World It was to be the fastest line to date and one of the few that could also run on conventional track. Forget the speed. One way or another, the country needs another North to South railway line. With HS2 binned off this generation is now stuck with the existing outdated and congested WCML for life. Like Heathrow really. Nobody wants to build anything anymore because they might lose a few votes from whatever lobby group happens to take issue with it. Without trying to be pedantic this is simply not true. The original speed proposed for HS2 was 400 Kmph ( 248 Mph) This was reduced to an average of 330 km/h (205 mph) and maximum of 360 km/h (224 Mph) once contracts to build new trains were awarded There are at least 7 and quite possibly a lot more currently operating at well above these speeds of even the original proposal Japan: L0 Series Maglev (374 mph) France: TGV POS (357 mph) China: CRH380A Hexie (302 mph) China: Shanghai Maglev (268 mph) South Korea: HEMU-430X (262 mph) China: Fuxing Hao CR400AF/BF (260 mph) Italy: Frecciarossa 1000 (245 mph) |
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Post by britsabroad on Sept 18, 2023 15:57:01 GMT
It was to be the fastest line to date and one of the few that could also run on conventional track. Forget the speed. One way or another, the country needs another North to South railway line. With HS2 binned off this generation is now stuck with the existing outdated and congested WCML for life. Like Heathrow really. Nobody wants to build anything anymore because they might lose a few votes from whatever lobby group happens to take issue with it. Without trying to be pedantic this is simply not true. The original speed proposed for HS2 was 400 Kmph ( 248 Mph) This was reduced to an average of 330 km/h (205 mph) and maximum of 360 km/h (224 Mph) once contracts to build new trains were awarded There are at least 7 and quite possibly a lot more currently operating at well above these speeds of even the original proposal Japan: L0 Series Maglev (374 mph) France: TGV POS (357 mph) China: CRH380A Hexie (302 mph) China: Shanghai Maglev (268 mph) South Korea: HEMU-430X (262 mph) China: Fuxing Hao CR400AF/BF (260 mph) Italy: Frecciarossa 1000 (245 mph) As far as I'm aware none of those trains either operate anywhere near those speeds or are in operation at all. The Shanghai Maglev is the only one, and it runs for about 3 miles to the middle of nowhere. The HS2 trains are being designed to operate at 360km/h. That's faster than any other current line. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2023 16:35:56 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Sept 18, 2023 16:57:08 GMT
Without trying to be pedantic this is simply not true. The original speed proposed for HS2 was 400 Kmph ( 248 Mph) This was reduced to an average of 330 km/h (205 mph) and maximum of 360 km/h (224 Mph) once contracts to build new trains were awarded There are at least 7 and quite possibly a lot more currently operating at well above these speeds of even the original proposal Japan: L0 Series Maglev (374 mph) France: TGV POS (357 mph) China: CRH380A Hexie (302 mph) China: Shanghai Maglev (268 mph) South Korea: HEMU-430X (262 mph) China: Fuxing Hao CR400AF/BF (260 mph) Italy: Frecciarossa 1000 (245 mph) As far as I'm aware none of those trains either operate anywhere near those speeds or are in operation at all. The Shanghai Maglev is the only one, and it runs for about 3 miles to the middle of nowhere. The HS2 trains are being designed to operate at 360km/h. That's faster than any other current line. The LO Series Maglev has tested at a speed of 603 Kmph as far back as 2015. It will connect Tokyo and Nagoya a distance of 286Kms when it becomes operational in 2027 The Shanghai Maglev connects Shanghai Airport to Shanghai City since 2001 a distance of 20Kms and hardly in the middle of nowhere Even TGV which became operational more than 40 years ago operates at 320Kmph due to French Regulation but it holds the world record for a commercial Train reaching a speed of 574.8Kmph (357.2Mph) back in 2007 I think it's premature to predict what speeds HS2 will operate at until trials have been completed www.railtarget.eu/technologies-and-infrastructure/a-leap-into-the-future-japans-l0-series-maglev-shattering-speed-barriers-at-375-mph-5860.html |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2023 17:23:32 GMT
can anyone tell me an actual amount, of how much a bog-standard off peak return from brum to old oak will cost? i've looked but unless i'm missing something obvious, i can't see it anywhere.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 18, 2023 17:31:15 GMT
Brexit, HS2 and you voted Tory at the last election. You're having a mare, Coke 😬 Not in the least. I voted for Boris to "Get Brexit Done" - job done; Boris can now clear off , he's served his purpose. I'll vote for whoever suits my purpose at the next GE. I used to be an active member of the old Liberal Party. Starmer says he will get Brexit to work, but as my Brexit review spells out, it is working quite nicely. I'm very happy British law is not now dictated by Brussels. HS2 announcement in the budget awaits, but as a former businessman I fully appreciate you can only spend so much capital investment; given a pandemic, NHS in a mess, record sickness, a war in progress, natural disaster after disaster,/weather extremes, strikes, (what McMillan called "events") its remarkable the country is not running up more debt than it is. Fortunately the government is getting record revenue. On the wrong side of history on all three of them, ouch! |
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Post by britsabroad on Sept 18, 2023 21:30:02 GMT
As far as I'm aware none of those trains either operate anywhere near those speeds or are in operation at all. The Shanghai Maglev is the only one, and it runs for about 3 miles to the middle of nowhere. The HS2 trains are being designed to operate at 360km/h. That's faster than any other current line. The LO Series Maglev has tested at a speed of 603 Kmph as far back as 2015. It will connect Tokyo and Nagoya a distance of 286Kms when it becomes operational in 2027 The Shanghai Maglev connects Shanghai Airport to Shanghai City since 2001 a distance of 20Kms and hardly in the middle of nowhere Even TGV which became operational more than 40 years ago operates at 320Kmph due to French Regulation but it holds the world record for a commercial Train reaching a speed of 574.8Kmph (357.2Mph) back in 2007 I think it's premature to predict what speeds HS2 will operate at until trials have been completed www.railtarget.eu/technologies-and-infrastructure/a-leap-into-the-future-japans-l0-series-maglev-shattering-speed-barriers-at-375-mph-5860.htmlHave you been on the Shanghai Maglev? I have. Trust me when I say it dumps you in the middle of nowhere. Test runs aside, HS2 will be the fastest conventional rail service in the world. That would be something to be proud of. If we built it properly. |
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Post by wannabee on Sept 18, 2023 22:01:32 GMT
The LO Series Maglev has tested at a speed of 603 Kmph as far back as 2015. It will connect Tokyo and Nagoya a distance of 286Kms when it becomes operational in 2027 The Shanghai Maglev connects Shanghai Airport to Shanghai City since 2001 a distance of 20Kms and hardly in the middle of nowhere Even TGV which became operational more than 40 years ago operates at 320Kmph due to French Regulation but it holds the world record for a commercial Train reaching a speed of 574.8Kmph (357.2Mph) back in 2007 I think it's premature to predict what speeds HS2 will operate at until trials have been completed www.railtarget.eu/technologies-and-infrastructure/a-leap-into-the-future-japans-l0-series-maglev-shattering-speed-barriers-at-375-mph-5860.htmlHave you been on the Shanghai Maglev? I have. Trust me when I say it dumps you in the middle of nowhere. Test runs aside, HS2 will be the fastest conventional rail service in the world. That would be something to be proud of. If we built it properly. I have actually, it's an experience I enjoy every time I go to Shanghai A bit pricy by local standards and with a connection to Metro gets me to my destination in no time and much more enjoyable than a Taxi. If HS2 ever gets into service I'll try that too and use the QE Line from Old Oak to get to my destination in a similar fashion I do note your caveat "if it's built properly " which I think is wise given the history |
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 19, 2023 12:45:25 GMT
HS2 was sold primarily as cutting journey times which was silly back when it started and even more so in the current era of remote working. Far more important is the capacity it releases for freight with a huge number of lorries taken off the roads.
The project has been very poorly managed of course and been taken hostage by local interests effected by the route. Spending ridiculous sums on 'bat tunnels' and the rest of it was insanity.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Sept 19, 2023 18:16:50 GMT
The tunnel that started inside the M25 is close to emerging out of the Chiltern hills, anyone noticed.
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Post by Northy on Sept 21, 2023 13:45:18 GMT
I'm currently travelling between Florence and Rome at 250 KM/H, free WiFi which doesn't drop out even through tunnels.
Passed plenty of local train lines which don't connect with the high speed lines givingthem capacity.
They are years ahead of us on the continent.
Eurostar to Paris, Paris to Geneva and now Turin to Naples, a great way to travel.
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Post by spiderpuss on Oct 2, 2023 20:28:20 GMT
Looks close to being dropped for the North. No real surprise. Just a expensive Brum train service then.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 2, 2023 20:31:54 GMT
It has been dropped. The biggest white elephant I can remember. It’s actually a disgrace how much it’s haemorrhaged cash and continued to do so up to the point of cancelling the main point of it. There are no words
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Post by spiderpuss on Oct 2, 2023 20:37:05 GMT
It has been dropped. The biggest white elephant I can remember. It’s actually a disgrace how much it’s haemorrhaged cash and continued to do so up to the point of cancelling the main point of it. There are no words I'm in two minds about it. I don't think it would have bought the benefits nentioned and the money can be better spent on local projects, such as Meir station and Brittania parkway. The teain service fron Manc to London only takes around 2 hours, that's quick enough for most people. The fact it was promised is annoying, and obviously disappointing for buisiness who'd relied on it being created. The tories will never learn. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 2, 2023 20:40:15 GMT
It has been dropped. The biggest white elephant I can remember. It’s actually a disgrace how much it’s haemorrhaged cash and continued to do so up to the point of cancelling the main point of it. There are no words I'm in two minds about it. I don't think it would have bought the benefits nentioned and the money can be better spent on local projects, such as Meir station and Brittania parkway. The teain service fron Manc to London only takes around 2 hours, that's quick enough for most people. The fact it was promised is annoying, and obviously disappointing for buisiness who'd relied on it being created. The tories will never learn. Completely agree with everything you’ve said. Literally nobody is arsed how long it takes to get anywhere on a train. It’s utterly pathetic and the idea was the most hare brained scheme I’ve known in my lifetime. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 2, 2023 20:53:12 GMT
Brexit, HS2 and you voted Tory at the last election. You're having a mare, Coke 😬 Not in the least. I voted for Boris to "Get Brexit Done" - job done; Boris can now clear off , he's served his purpose. I'll vote for whoever suits my purpose at the next GE. I used to be an active member of the old Liberal Party. Starmer says he will get Brexit to work, but as my Brexit review spells out, it is working quite nicely. I'm very happy British law is not now dictated by Brussels. HS2 announcement in the budget awaits, but as a former businessman I fully appreciate you can only spend so much capital investment; given a pandemic, NHS in a mess, record sickness, a war in progress, natural disaster after disaster,/weather extremes, strikes, (what McMillan called "events") its remarkable the country is not running up more debt than it is. Fortunately the government is getting record revenue. Can't argue with any of that. |
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Post by neworleanstokie on Oct 2, 2023 21:13:53 GMT
it was always about freeing up capacity not speed.. no surprise it costs 10x /mile more than France.. its going through a tiny island packed with people, history and wildlife. Leveling up.. what a con.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 2, 2023 21:17:25 GMT
It’s stuff like this that really angers me about the government, you could see from miles away this project was doomed and how much tax payers money has been spent on it so far? And for what? Get from London to Birmingham a bit quicker. Disgraceful mismanagement of the public’s hard earned money.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 2, 2023 21:30:09 GMT
Might as well shut Derby works (and Newton Aycliffe) while they're at it. Should only cost a few thousand jobs. No point building all those new very fast trains if they're only going to Brum. Buy a few TGV/ICE for the Birmingham leg. No point sending them (or the new Derby trains) north of Brum as they don't tilt, so journey times north of Birmingham would probably be slower than they currently are.
Oh and forget 'Northern Powerhouse' Rail '. Only works if HS2 reaches Manchester , as the redevelopment costs needed for NPR will be prohibitive as a standalone scheme.
Freight? No capacity on the railways without HS2 so the M6 it is.
Levelling Up? Fill a few potholes and recommission a few Beresfords' buses-job done.
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