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Post by thevoid on Sept 3, 2019 13:44:42 GMT
Ask Leicester and Wolves fans about new owners. And Watford. For every horror story there is a positive story. To say they are football people and you trust them to do the right thing flies in the face of current reality. Stoke are not an attractive club for someone to buy. Wolves are a bigger draw even if some cannot see this and so are Leicester. Watford is a London club. Plus the fact it would cost around £250mill for some bigger to buy it of the Coates family taking in the fact the club owes peter £100mill that wouldn’t need paying back to him unless the club is sold. Watford aren't in London
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Post by slpmarc on Sept 3, 2019 13:46:06 GMT
Stoke are not an attractive club for someone to buy. Wolves are a bigger draw even if some cannot see this and so are Leicester. Watford is a London club. Plus the fact it would cost around £250mill for some bigger to buy it of the Coates family taking in the fact the club owes peter £100mill that wouldn’t need paying back to him unless the club is sold. Watford aren't in London Near enough for outside investors to use the location as a pull for investment
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 3, 2019 14:09:51 GMT
Ask Leicester and Wolves fans about new owners. And Watford. For every horror story there is a positive story. To say they are football people and you trust them to do the right thing flies in the face of current reality. So would you be prepared to risk the same fate as Bolton, (a club far more like Stoke than the three you mention) just to get rid of the Coates? I can name several clubs whose owners or similar I wouldn't want anywhere near Stoke : Blackburn, Hull, Newcastle, Derby, Forest immediately spring to mind. They are all very similar clubs to Stoke apart from Newcastle who are a lot bigger. Apart from Hull I would argue that all those clubs have a bigger fan base than Stoke. I want the owners to do their jobs properly. They aren't. I'd prefer the Coates family to stay but they are failing the club and the supporters big time. They clearly ARE NOT Football people - never ever have been. They are money people, preferably taking it out of the pockets of poor saps with issues.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 3, 2019 14:20:13 GMT
So would you be prepared to risk the same fate as Bolton, (a club far more like Stoke than the three you mention) just to get rid of the Coates? I can name several clubs whose owners or similar I wouldn't want anywhere near Stoke : Blackburn, Hull, Newcastle, Derby, Forest immediately spring to mind. They are all very similar clubs to Stoke apart from Newcastle who are a lot bigger. Apart from Hull I would argue that all those clubs have a bigger fan base than Stoke. I want the owners to do their jobs properly. They aren't. I'd prefer the Coates family to stay but they are failing the club and the supporters big time. They clearly ARE NOT Football people - never ever have been. They are money people, preferably taking it out of the pockets of poor saps with issues. However, if it hadn't been for Coates, we'd be a yoyo club between the 2nd & 3rd tiers. People are quick to rush to insults, but, like it or not, The Coates family are the major reason we have been moderately successful over the past 15 years.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 3, 2019 14:24:04 GMT
There's a lot of over reaction to some of the stuff going on at the club at the moment.
It's not working out at the moment, but pretty much all of us must have thought that the Rowett and Jones appointments were sound.
It seems to me that in a low key fans forum, Jon Coates told an anecdotal, fairly light-hearted story about how he first heard about Nathan Jones. That's it.
Every club looking for a new manager in January 2019 would have been considering Nathan Jones. He was the hottest prospect in the football league.
Getting struggling Luton promoted, acing the next level and scoring for fun - it would have been more surprising and neglectful if they hadn't interviewed him.
He obviously impressed at the interview, he was in demand and his track record was excellent.
It was a bold decision based on hard evidence of success. We're 6 games in to a new season with a new squad and set up and have had some wretched luck. Still time to fix this, and if Nathan can't fix it, I don't think it's fair to point the finger at the Coates family. A lot of us would have done the same thing in their position.
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Post by Davef on Sept 3, 2019 14:25:58 GMT
I want the owners to do their jobs properly. They aren't. I'd prefer the Coates family to stay but they are failing the club and the supporters big time. They clearly ARE NOT Football people - never ever have been. They are money people, preferably taking it out of the pockets of poor saps with issues. However, if it hadn't been for Coates, we'd be a yoyo club between the 2nd & 3rd tiers. People are quick to rush to insults, but, like it or not, The Coates family are the major reason we have been moderately successful over the past 15 years. And if they're going to take the plaudits for that then they have to take what comes with our current position and what may come in the future...
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Post by sutekh on Sept 3, 2019 14:36:03 GMT
There's a lot of over reaction to some of the stuff going on at the club at the moment. It's not working out at the moment, but pretty much all of us must have thought that the Rowett and Jones appointments were sound. It seems to me that in a low key fans forum, Jon Coates told an anecdotal, fairly light-hearted story about how he first heard about Nathan Jones. That's it. Every club looking for a new manager in January 2019 would have been considering Nathan Jones. He was the hottest prospect in the football league. Getting struggling Luton promoted, acing the next level and scoring for fun - it would have been more surprising and neglectful if they hadn't interviewed him. He obviously impressed at the interview, he was in demand and his track record was excellent. It was a bold decision based on hard evidence of success. We're 6 games in to a new season with a new squad and set up and have had some wretched luck. Still time to fix this, and if Nathan can't fix it, I don't think it's fair to point the finger at the Coates family. A lot of us would have done the same thing in their position. But it’s fair game to point the finger at them for failing to sack Hughes 18 months before they did and also for the calamitous appointment of lambert.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 3, 2019 14:50:08 GMT
I want the owners to do their jobs properly. They aren't. I'd prefer the Coates family to stay but they are failing the club and the supporters big time. They clearly ARE NOT Football people - never ever have been. They are money people, preferably taking it out of the pockets of poor saps with issues. However, if it hadn't been for Coates, we'd be a yoyo club between the 2nd & 3rd tiers. People are quick to rush to insults, but, like it or not, The Coates family are the major reason we have been moderately successful over the past 15 years. Stop looking over your shoulder ffs.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 3, 2019 14:52:14 GMT
There's a lot of over reaction to some of the stuff going on at the club at the moment. It's not working out at the moment, but pretty much all of us must have thought that the Rowett and Jones appointments were sound. It seems to me that in a low key fans forum, Jon Coates told an anecdotal, fairly light-hearted story about how he first heard about Nathan Jones. That's it. Every club looking for a new manager in January 2019 would have been considering Nathan Jones. He was the hottest prospect in the football league. Getting struggling Luton promoted, acing the next level and scoring for fun - it would have been more surprising and neglectful if they hadn't interviewed him. He obviously impressed at the interview, he was in demand and his track record was excellent. It was a bold decision based on hard evidence of success. We're 6 games in to a new season with a new squad and set up and have had some wretched luck. Still time to fix this, and if Nathan can't fix it, I don't think it's fair to point the finger at the Coates family. A lot of us would have done the same thing in their position. But it’s fair game to point the finger at them for failing to sack Hughes 18 months before they did and also for the calamitous appointment of lambert. 18 months before would have been at the end of the 2016 season? Wasn't that a 9th place Premier League finish and league cup semi final? We'd hammered both Manchester clubs and beaten Liverpool at Anfield? Yep, dark days indeed. I can only think of possibly 5 seasons better than that in our history. I would argue that they were pressured into sacking Hughes and with hindsight would have been better keeping him on until the end of the season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 3, 2019 14:56:21 GMT
But it’s fair game to point the finger at them for failing to sack Hughes 18 months before they did and also for the calamitous appointment of lambert. 18 months before would have been at the end of the 2016 season? Wasn't that a 9th place Premier League finish and league cup semi final? We'd hammered both Manchester clubs and beaten Liverpool at Anfield? Yep, dark days indeed. I can only think of possibly 5 seasons better than that in our history. I would argue that they were pressured into sacking Hughes and with hindsight would have been better keeping him on until the end of the season. There was a case for sacking Hughes after we were battered at Palace in the September of 2016. There really wasn't a strong case for keeping him at the end of that season. The last chance to put ourselves in a good position would have been following the double whammy of getting beaned at Man City and then losing at home to Bournemouth. Surely, by that point, it was clear Hughes hadn't got a future at the club any longer? I agree with every word of what you posted about Jones. It was a bold decision that could just as easily have succeeded as failed.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 3, 2019 15:09:25 GMT
I’m always vociferous in my support of the family but to corrrct your numbers , business with 1 underlying revenue of circa £10m post one parachute payment 2 £100m debt 3 Recent accounts showing a£30m loss 4 long term commitment to a unsustainable wage bill More likely fetch zero not £250m nobody in their right mind would pay £20m indeed I’d suggest that’s a very generous price , selling it 2 years ago with a £110million revenue and selling it now are different worlds Your forgetting assets of the club. Playing Staff, the ground the training ground. Wages are around £40million with a good proportion of that at the feet of the likes or Allen, Imbula, Wimmer and Bauer. Thank god for the wage reduction clause inserted in the majority of the contract else it still would be north of £90 mill a year Marc I’m not without these owners it’s basically heading for insolvency hence the stupidity of those decrying their efforts but right now who would want a loss making business with a field outside Newcastle and a outdated stadium in stoke next to a couple of garages and some proven unsellable players the only numpty that would give you cash for it is the one who paid £50m for berahino , imbula and wimmer 😏otherwise it’s massively underwater
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 3, 2019 15:12:46 GMT
18 months before would have been at the end of the 2016 season? Wasn't that a 9th place Premier League finish and league cup semi final? We'd hammered both Manchester clubs and beaten Liverpool at Anfield? Yep, dark days indeed. I can only think of possibly 5 seasons better than that in our history. I would argue that they were pressured into sacking Hughes and with hindsight would have been better keeping him on until the end of the season. There was a case for sacking Hughes after we were battered at Palace in the September of 2016. There really wasn't a strong case for keeping him at the end of that season. The last chance to put ourselves in a good position would have been following the double whammy of getting beaned at Man City and then losing at home to Bournemouth. Surely, by that point, it was clear Hughes hadn't got a future at the club any longer? I agree with every word of what you posted about Jones. It was a bold decision that could just as easily have succeeded as failed. I get that. The whole 3-4-3 thing wasn't working. But even then, you lose 2 quick goals and you are chasing the game, which in fairness was what he said. With, what, 11 games to go and some winnable ones at that, it was a big gamble. I get it, because after the Cov cup game, it looked like he couldn't buy a win. But with hindsight, I think it probably was the wrong decision and that MH might have kept us up. That would have been the time for change. (That's what Brighton have done - a considered gamble to progress - might not work for them either, we'll have to see. Pretty much what we did replacing Pulis with Hughes.) Still wouldn't blame the Coates family. The took a brave decision and it didn't work out. Let's hope there's still time for the Jones appointment to come good.
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Post by slpmarc on Sept 3, 2019 15:15:01 GMT
Your forgetting assets of the club. Playing Staff, the ground the training ground. Wages are around £40million with a good proportion of that at the feet of the likes or Allen, Imbula, Wimmer and Bauer. Thank god for the wage reduction clause inserted in the majority of the contract else it still would be north of £90 mill a year Marc I’m not without these owners it’s basically heading for insolvency hence the stupidity of those decrying their efforts but right now who would want a loss making business with a field outside Newcastle and a outdated stadium in stoke next to a couple of garages and some proven unsellable players the only numpty that would give you cash for it is the one who paid £50m for berahino , imbula and wimmer 😏otherwise it’s massively underwater I agree that nobody will pay what the Coates family would want for the club. That’s the whole point of my original post when people were saying look what happened to Wolves, Leicester and Watford under new owners. We are a less attractive club then them on a number of points and are worth less on paper than what’s owned to Peter alone never mind any other interest free loans secured against the holding company
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 3, 2019 15:21:13 GMT
There was a case for sacking Hughes after we were battered at Palace in the September of 2016. There really wasn't a strong case for keeping him at the end of that season. The last chance to put ourselves in a good position would have been following the double whammy of getting beaned at Man City and then losing at home to Bournemouth. Surely, by that point, it was clear Hughes hadn't got a future at the club any longer? I agree with every word of what you posted about Jones. It was a bold decision that could just as easily have succeeded as failed. I get that. The whole 3-4-3 thing wasn't working. But even then, you lose 2 quick goals and you are chasing the game, which in fairness was what he said. With, what, 11 games to go and some winnable ones at that, it was a big gamble. I get it, because after the Cov cup game, it looked like he couldn't buy a win. But with hindsight, I think it probably was the wrong decision and that MH might have kept us up. That would have been the time for change. (That's what Brighton have done - a considered gamble to progress - might not work for them either, we'll have to see. Pretty much what we did replacing Pulis with Hughes.) Still wouldn't blame the Coates family. The took a brave decision and it didn't work out. Let's hope there's still time for the Jones appointment to come good. We were constantly losing 'two quick goals' though. That was on him. Equally, if the Coates' didn't act and we'd gone down under Hughes, as looked a distinct possibility, they'd have received pelters for not acting. They'd shot themselves in the foot by not acting sooner.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 3, 2019 15:29:59 GMT
There's a lot of over reaction to some of the stuff going on at the club at the moment. It's not working out at the moment, but pretty much all of us must have thought that the Rowett and Jones appointments were sound. It seems to me that in a low key fans forum, Jon Coates told an anecdotal, fairly light-hearted story about how he first heard about Nathan Jones. That's it. Every club looking for a new manager in January 2019 would have been considering Nathan Jones. He was the hottest prospect in the football league. Getting struggling Luton promoted, acing the next level and scoring for fun - it would have been more surprising and neglectful if they hadn't interviewed him. He obviously impressed at the interview, he was in demand and his track record was excellent. It was a bold decision based on hard evidence of success. We're 6 games in to a new season with a new squad and set up and have had some wretched luck. Still time to fix this, and if Nathan can't fix it, I don't think it's fair to point the finger at the Coates family. A lot of us would have done the same thing in their position. But it’s fair game to point the finger at them for failing to sack Hughes 18 months before they did and also for the calamitous appointment of lambert. Sure, but let’s not make out hat they’re the worst thing ever. If it were not for them, we would not have gotten to the point where we would have ever been able to thrash Liverpool 6-1 or have been in the position to even think about sacking Hughes.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 3, 2019 15:31:45 GMT
I can see that argument. Damned if you do and all that...
The trick is to have somebody lined up whenever you make that decision. That dictates the timing and is more important than the timing. If there is a criticism, that would be it for me. Surely they hadn't targeted Lambert? They pulled the trigger and then started looking to see who was available. I guess they hoped that a fresh face might organise them and galvanise them into getting enough points for survival. Big mistake in hindsight.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 3, 2019 15:33:23 GMT
However, if it hadn't been for Coates, we'd be a yoyo club between the 2nd & 3rd tiers. People are quick to rush to insults, but, like it or not, The Coates family are the major reason we have been moderately successful over the past 15 years. Stop looking over your shoulder ffs. Stop looking over the fence and thinking the grass is greener over there.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 3, 2019 15:34:34 GMT
I can see that argument. Damned if you do and all that... The trick is to have somebody lined up whenever you make that decision. That dictates the timing and is more important than the timing. If there is a criticism, that would be it for me. Surely they hadn't targeted Lambert? They pulled the trigger and then started looking to see who was available. I guess they hoped that a fresh face might organise them and galvanise them into getting enough points for survival. Big mistake in hindsight. To be fair it seemed as if they were pretty confident they'd got their man, twice, in QSF then Rowett but both went tits up.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 3, 2019 15:40:25 GMT
Marc I’m not without these owners it’s basically heading for insolvency hence the stupidity of those decrying their efforts but right now who would want a loss making business with a field outside Newcastle and a outdated stadium in stoke next to a couple of garages and some proven unsellable players the only numpty that would give you cash for it is the one who paid £50m for berahino , imbula and wimmer 😏otherwise it’s massively underwater I agree that nobody will pay what the Coates family would want for the club. That’s the whole point of my original post when people were saying look what happened to Wolves, Leicester and Watford under new owners. We are a less attractive club then them on a number of points and are worth less on paper than what’s owned to Peter alone never mind any other interest free loans secured against the holding company It's almost as though it's been engineered that way.... ...who's up for a golden share?
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 3, 2019 15:43:36 GMT
I agree that nobody will pay what the Coates family would want for the club. That’s the whole point of my original post when people were saying look what happened to Wolves, Leicester and Watford under new owners. We are a less attractive club then them on a number of points and are worth less on paper than what’s owned to Peter alone never mind any other interest free loans secured against the holding company It's almost as though it's been engineered that way.... ...who's up for a golden share? Keith Humphrey’s
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Post by thevoid on Sept 3, 2019 15:56:37 GMT
18 months before would have been at the end of the 2016 season? Wasn't that a 9th place Premier League finish and league cup semi final? We'd hammered both Manchester clubs and beaten Liverpool at Anfield? Yep, dark days indeed. I can only think of possibly 5 seasons better than that in our history. I would argue that they were pressured into sacking Hughes and with hindsight would have been better keeping him on until the end of the season. There was a case for sacking Hughes after we were battered at Palace in the September of 2016. There really wasn't a strong case for keeping him at the end of that season. The last chance to put ourselves in a good position would have been following the double whammy of getting beaned at Man City and then losing at home to Bournemouth. Surely, by that point, it was clear Hughes hadn't got a future at the club any longer? I agree with every word of what you posted about Jones. It was a bold decision that could just as easily have succeeded as failed. My thoughts exactly, Hughes should have gone after that 4-1 mauling at Palace when it was clear that the decline from the season before hadn't been addressed. Not far from our current set of circumstances really...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 16:02:35 GMT
Could you imagine Man City sacking Guardiola, and then appointing the next manager because the owner went the pub with his mate, had a pint and a pack of McCoy's and said I know this dead good manager, go get him. It's incomprehensible that a professional football club could appoint a manager by having a fucking stupid mate who 'likes football' recommending you a manager. Just cannot comprehend it. It's sheer lunacy. That's not what happened though is it? I watched the video and it was nowhere near as cringe worthy as people are making it out to be. It was a fans night. I would prefer the Directors to unbutton their collar and be a little more open with the fans.The story did drag on a bit but he acknowledged that fact. He is not the first person to drag a story out and he won't be the last. My boss is the shittiest story teller going but he seems to manage 3,000 employees and contractors quite well. The man is obviously a fan. He is not daft. He may be enthusiastic and even naive but there are plenty of older heads available within the club who can and will advise. People need to lay off with all the hyperbole. Its veering on hysterical for some. It was embarrassingly cringe worthy, and he really is stupid.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 3, 2019 17:25:48 GMT
Marc I’m not without these owners it’s basically heading for insolvency hence the stupidity of those decrying their efforts but right now who would want a loss making business with a field outside Newcastle and a outdated stadium in stoke next to a couple of garages and some proven unsellable players the only numpty that would give you cash for it is the one who paid £50m for berahino , imbula and wimmer 😏otherwise it’s massively underwater I agree that nobody will pay what the Coates family would want for the club. That’s the whole point of my original post when people were saying look what happened to Wolves, Leicester and Watford under new owners. We are a less attractive club then them on a number of points and are worth less on paper than what’s owned to Peter alone never mind any other interest free loans secured against the holding company Marc Agree from an ownership point of view we are incredibly lucky to have them , there just been badly let down by those they trusted and perhaps guilty with hindsight of too much trust and not enough non family football expertise around them
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Post by dreamtheater on Sept 3, 2019 17:35:03 GMT
If that highly animated, gobby buffoon sat next to Tony Scholes in that earlier video clip is indeed Jon Coates, I am entirely unsurprised by the direction the club has now slithered towards not unlike a slowly unfolding car crash. Was he bladdered too ? or am I off the pace ?
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 3, 2019 17:38:36 GMT
If that highly animated, gobby buffoon sat next to Tony Scholes in that earlier video clip is indeed Jon Coates, I am entirely unsurprised by the direction the club has now slithered towards not unlike a slowly unfolding car crash. Was he bladdered too ? or am I off the pace ? More like he was off his face in that clip not that he would be of course.
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Post by serpico on Sept 3, 2019 17:39:01 GMT
18 months before would have been at the end of the 2016 season? Wasn't that a 9th place Premier League finish and league cup semi final? We'd hammered both Manchester clubs and beaten Liverpool at Anfield? Yep, dark days indeed. I can only think of possibly 5 seasons better than that in our history. I would argue that they were pressured into sacking Hughes and with hindsight would have been better keeping him on until the end of the season. There was a case for sacking Hughes after we were battered at Palace in the September of 2016. There really wasn't a strong case for keeping him at the end of that season. The last chance to put ourselves in a good position would have been following the double whammy of getting beaned at Man City and then losing at home to Bournemouth. Surely, by that point, it was clear Hughes hadn't got a future at the club any longer? I agree with every word of what you posted about Jones. It was a bold decision that could just as easily have succeeded as failed. He should definitely have gone after that Bournemouth home game, it was dreadful and we stank of relegation.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 4, 2019 9:39:44 GMT
Jeff Bezos' boat. Shall I see if I can coax him to Stoke? 😎
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 4, 2019 11:38:59 GMT
Could you imagine Man City sacking Guardiola, and then appointing the next manager because the owner went the pub with his mate, had a pint and a pack of McCoy's and said I know this dead good manager, go get him. It's incomprehensible that a professional football club could appoint a manager by having a fucking stupid mate who 'likes football' recommending you a manager. Just cannot comprehend it. It's sheer lunacy. That's not what happened though is it? I watched the video and it was nowhere near as cringe worthy as people are making it out to be. It was a fans night. I would prefer the Directors to unbutton their collar and be a little more open with the fans.The story did drag on a bit but he acknowledged that fact. He is not the first person to drag a story out and he won't be the last. My boss is the shittiest story teller going but he seems to manage 3,000 employees and contractors quite well. The man is obviously a fan. He is not daft. He may be enthusiastic and even naive but there are plenty of older heads available within the club who can and will advise. People need to lay off with all the hyperbole. Its veering on hysterical for some. 100% agree. The last 2 sentences are exactly what’s going to divide fans for years. We’re all hurting and unhappy, but for goodness sake, it is not the end of the world. We have owners who love the club and have invested (and will invest) millions on millions of pounds; we have a decent infrastructure; we have a young upcoming manager who is adapting to the situation. All the basics are looking so much better than 15 years ago, when we thought we would never reach the Premiership. We will be back, of that I have no doubt! And when we do get back, perhaps some of those who wasted our first Premier decade moaning, will relax and enjoy the ride!
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Post by lifelong on Sept 4, 2019 11:48:55 GMT
Long term strategy is fine when you're having some success but football is result dependent. If you're just losing there is not the time to look long term. Personally I just want to see us winning and being competitive. 3 years of losing a lot more than we win is just so flipping depressing! I think and hope the directors feel the same way.
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Post by nott1 on Sept 4, 2019 11:52:00 GMT
That's not what happened though is it? I watched the video and it was nowhere near as cringe worthy as people are making it out to be. It was a fans night. I would prefer the Directors to unbutton their collar and be a little more open with the fans.The story did drag on a bit but he acknowledged that fact. He is not the first person to drag a story out and he won't be the last. My boss is the shittiest story teller going but he seems to manage 3,000 employees and contractors quite well. The man is obviously a fan. He is not daft. He may be enthusiastic and even naive but there are plenty of older heads available within the club who can and will advise. People need to lay off with all the hyperbole. Its veering on hysterical for some. 100% agree. The last 2 sentences are exactly what’s going to divide fans for years. We’re all hurting and unhappy, but for goodness sake, it is not the end of the world. We have owners who love the club and have invested (and will invest) millions on millions of pounds; we have a decent infrastructure; we have a young upcoming manager who is adapting to the situation. All the basics are looking so much better than 15 years ago, when we thought we would never reach the Premiership. We will be back, of that I have no doubt! And when we do get back, perhaps some of those who wasted our first Premier decade moaning, will relax and enjoy the ride! He'd better adapt a lot quicker, time is not on his side.
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