|
Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 4, 2019 18:15:59 GMT
Let’s try and respond to the general statement you made in your earliest post, and your comments above in a positive way that may open up the subject for a more balanced debate. 1. Edwards, Campbell and Collins have not been “f****d off”. All three have featured in the 1st team or been on the bench this season. 2. Collins has been given a new 5 year contract and has also Captained the 1st team. 3. Verlinden has gone on loan until January (4/5 months). He will no doubt gain invaluable game time, experience of working with other coaches, experience of different tactics and experience of playing with other footballers. It could be argued that his going to Bolton will enhance his “long term” development. 5. You failed to mention Souttar (a player that I’ve never seen play) who will gain massive experience at Fleetwood playing in an uncompromising EFL Division. Whether or not he will make the grade of a Championship or above player only time will tell. As with Verlinden it could be argued that his going to will enhance his “long term” development. 6. There are a couple other young players who have gone out on loan i.e Shenton and a goalkeeper whose name escapes me. Would you deny them the opportunity of gaining experience? 7. It’s healthy to have competition for specific positions i.e right back. IMHO Edwards will in the long term thrive from his competition from Smith. Oh yes this “competition” nonesense. Smith was brought in above him. All of them should be playing and if they aren’t they will go. No point arguing with you - let’s see what happens at the end of the season if Jones stays. It’s disappointing that you make a statement about players being “f****d off” but can’t articulate a reasoned response to my alternative comments. Never mind
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 18:26:04 GMT
Oh yes this “competition” nonesense. Smith was brought in above him. All of them should be playing and if they aren’t they will go. No point arguing with you - let’s see what happens at the end of the season if Jones stays. It’s disappointing that you make a statement about players being “f****d off” but can’t articulate a reasoned response to my alternative comments. Never mind 1. Collins - clearly wasn’t first choice and he should be in the team every week. Lindsay is woeful. Batth has been woeful. 2. Campbell - best preseason, has hardly feature. Getting six minutes of the bench isn’t good enough. He’s not happy and looking leave as we know. 3. Edwards - no-one though he wouldn’t be first choice right back this season. He’s not. Our most expensive signing this summer was a right back who is also woeful. It shouldn’t even be a competition. 4. Verlinden - shipped off the Bolton after we were told it would only be a really appealing offer. It’s a team of loanees scrapping at the bottom of League One. How any anyone can say that’s good for a winger is beyond me. A club minutes away from administration now have a better left winger than us. How.
|
|
|
Post by GoBoks on Sept 4, 2019 18:38:44 GMT
So Stoke do have infrastructure? What even is your point? To say we should all be grateful and everything will be fine because we have the same things as most professional football clubs? You've said before you don't go to games so you might not be aware we are way behind other clubs in many aspects, only just got contactless payments, no wifi, the website is shocking and doesn't work most of the time, the hygiene rating was a disgrace. Apart from our academy there is nothing we do better than every single one of our peers. My point is that you said "What “infrastructure” are you on about? The academy? The academy that’s produced the youngsters that the current manager is fucking off in favour of some old has beens? Just more money down the drain. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/290144/jon-coates?page=9#ixzz5yaBlgMFOTake a breath and instead of slagging everything the club does, realize that there is a lot of good to rebuild on.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 18:41:28 GMT
What even is your point? To say we should all be grateful and everything will be fine because we have the same things as most professional football clubs? You've said before you don't go to games so you might not be aware we are way behind other clubs in many aspects, only just got contactless payments, no wifi, the website is shocking and doesn't work most of the time, the hygiene rating was a disgrace. Apart from our academy there is nothing we do better than every single one of our peers. My point is that you said "What “infrastructure” are you on about? The academy? The academy that’s produced the youngsters that the current manager is fucking off in favour of some old has beens? Just more money down the drain. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/290144/jon-coates?page=9#ixzz5yaBlgMFOTake a breath and instead of slagging everything the club does, realize that there is a lot of good to rebuild on. What’s so good that isn’t the ordinary course of any football club in this league? Other than our training facilities that are better? And the community trust?
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 4, 2019 18:51:28 GMT
It’s disappointing that you make a statement about players being “f****d off” but can’t articulate a reasoned response to my alternative comments. Never mind 1. Collins - clearly wasn’t first choice and he should be in the team every week. Lindsay is woeful. Batth has been woeful. 2. Campbell - best preseason, has hardly feature. Getting six minutes of the bench isn’t good enough. He’s not happy and looking leave as we know. 3. Edwards - no-one though he wouldn’t be first choice right back this season. He’s not. Our most expensive signing this summer was a right back who is also woeful. It shouldn’t even be a competition. 4. Verlinden - shipped off the Bolton after we were told it would only be a really appealing offer. It’s a team of loanees scrapping at the bottom of League One. How any anyone can say that’s good for a winger is beyond me. A club minutes away from administration now have a better left winger than us. How. You make it sound like Edward's has played like cafu when he has played. Verlinden a better left winger than ince & mclean, give over he has potential, he has hardly played Collins is 18 years old. He has loads of time AND he gets game time, should play every game? You moan about our league position but you want us to throw a bunch of kids in. You're moaning about it but think it's reasonable to sign tp after 6 games. Every single one of them players has had game time this season and we have only played 6 games
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 18:57:03 GMT
1. Collins - clearly wasn’t first choice and he should be in the team every week. Lindsay is woeful. Batth has been woeful. 2. Campbell - best preseason, has hardly feature. Getting six minutes of the bench isn’t good enough. He’s not happy and looking leave as we know. 3. Edwards - no-one though he wouldn’t be first choice right back this season. He’s not. Our most expensive signing this summer was a right back who is also woeful. It shouldn’t even be a competition. 4. Verlinden - shipped off the Bolton after we were told it would only be a really appealing offer. It’s a team of loanees scrapping at the bottom of League One. How any anyone can say that’s good for a winger is beyond me. A club minutes away from administration now have a better left winger than us. How. You make it sound like Edward's has played like cafu when he has played. Verlinden a better left winger than ince & mclean, give over he has potential, he has hardly played Collins is 18 years old. He has loads of time AND he gets game time, should play every game? You moan about our league position but you want us to throw a bunch of kids in. You're moaning about it but think it's reasonable to sign tp after 6 games. Every single one of them players has had game time this season and we have only played 6 games Well they couldn’t have done any worse! Could they!
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 4, 2019 18:59:13 GMT
You make it sound like Edward's has played like cafu when he has played. Verlinden a better left winger than ince & mclean, give over he has potential, he has hardly played Collins is 18 years old. He has loads of time AND he gets game time, should play every game? You moan about our league position but you want us to throw a bunch of kids in. You're moaning about it but think it's reasonable to sign tp after 6 games. Every single one of them players has had game time this season and we have only played 6 games Well they couldn’t have done any worse! Could they! If jones had chucked all the kids in ahead of the senior players and we sat where we are now youd be fucking slaughtering him for doing it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:02:55 GMT
Well they couldn’t have done any worse! Could they! If jones had chucked all the kids in ahead of the senior players and we sat where we are now youd be fucking slaughtering him for doing it. Wrong. Spent all summer saying we didn’t need some of the “senior” players he was signing and that we need to be starting these guys now. Go look if you want to.
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 4, 2019 19:10:07 GMT
If jones had chucked all the kids in ahead of the senior players and we sat where we are now youd be fucking slaughtering him for doing it. Wrong. Spent all summer saying we didn’t need some of the “senior” players he was signing and that we need to be starting these guys now. Go look if you want to. You havnt got a clue how well they would be doing, we have started slow, clubs do. I think he's doing it right by giving them minutes tbh, it's just the thing to do most of the time. How many other clubs play their youth playere before their senior players? You're in dreamland, 18 year olds getting minutes a big second division club is not bad going for them, its upto them to make an impression when they do get the chance, it's that that keeps them eager well they gain experience at the same time. Chuck an 18 year old in for 46 games and they can think they have made it, they can get complacent, they can get fatigue, their form can dip, they lose confidence and then they struggle. Jones is doing it right imo never mind what campbell senior says, maybe his lad should of stayed at man city he would have been sure for game time🤔 , it isn't like he is an established goalscoring striker at any level but the U23's so what gives him the right to be first choice?
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 4, 2019 19:14:40 GMT
It’s disappointing that you make a statement about players being “f****d off” but can’t articulate a reasoned response to my alternative comments. Never mind 1. Collins - clearly wasn’t first choice and he should be in the team every week. Lindsay is woeful. Batth has been woeful. Off course Collins wasn’t first choice. Injury opens unexpected doors and gives unexpected opportunities. He will no doubt get more game time this season. Hopefully under a well managed development programme.2. Campbell - best preseason, has hardly feature. Getting six minutes of the bench isn’t good enough. He’s not happy and looking leave as we know. I sincerely hope he makes it. There is definitely an issue with his ability at the moment to sustain a full ninety minutes, whether that is a lack of physical or mental fitness or a mixture of both. I think the six minutes you refer to is for one game. It does appear to be insufficient.3. Edwards - no-one though he wouldn’t be first choice right back this season. He’s not. Our most expensive signing this summer was a right back who is also woeful. It shouldn’t even be a competition. ”No-one”. I’d remind you of his age and again the need for well managed development of a young player. Are you really suggesting that we didn’t need competition for the RB spot over a 46 game season? Whether Smith is the right player for SCFC only time will tell. For a player with about 180 EPL and EFL Championship appearances to his credit I would suggest he isn’t woeful. Might be struggling at the moment4. Verlinden - shipped off the Bolton after we were told it would only be a really appealing offer. It’s a team of loanees scrapping at the bottom of League One. How any anyone can say that’s good for a winger is beyond me. A club minutes away from administration now have a better left winger than us. How. I’ll stick with my previous comments. So it’s best to agree to disagree
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:19:02 GMT
Wrong. Spent all summer saying we didn’t need some of the “senior” players he was signing and that we need to be starting these guys now. Go look if you want to. You havnt got a clue how well they would be doing, we have started slow, clubs do. I think he's doing it right by giving them minutes tbh, it's just the thing to do most of the time. How many other clubs play their youth playere before their senior players? You're in dreamland, 18 year olds getting minutes a big second division club is not bad going for them, its upto them to make an impression when they do get the chance, it's that that keeps them eager well they gain experience at the same time. Chuck an 18 year old in for 46 games and they can think they have made it, they can get complacent, they can get fatigue, their form can dip, they lose confidence and then they struggle. Jones is doing it right imo never mind what campbell senior says, maybe his lad should of stayed at man city he would have been sure for game time🤔 , it isn't like he is an established goalscoring striker at any level but the U23's so what gives him the right to be first choice? We’ve got one point mate so it can’t have been much worse. It’s not a slow start it’s a disastrous start. It’s not just the results it’s the fact we don’t look like we have a clue what we are doing - chopping and changing not knowing to what to do. I suppose every pundit, sports commentator are wrong and or ex players Pejic, Lawrence, Conroy saying that it’s confused and there’s no plan are wrong you berahinosgoals know better? Campbell was the best player against Leeds. They couldn’t cope with him. Who the hell cares if he can only do it for 70 mins at the moment? Why play someone who cures the other side problems for 70 mins when you can play someone for 9p and never cause any real problems eh?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:23:38 GMT
1. Collins - clearly wasn’t first choice and he should be in the team every week. Lindsay is woeful. Batth has been woeful. Off course Collins wasn’t first choice. Injury opens unexpected doors and gives unexpected opportunities. He will no doubt get more game time this season. Hopefully under a well managed development programme.2. Campbell - best preseason, has hardly feature. Getting six minutes of the bench isn’t good enough. He’s not happy and looking leave as we know. I sincerely hope he makes it. There is definitely an issue with his ability at the moment to sustain a full ninety minutes, whether that is a lack of physical or mental fitness or a mixture of both. I think the six minutes you refer to is for one game. It does appear to be insufficient.3. Edwards - no-one though he wouldn’t be first choice right back this season. He’s not. Our most expensive signing this summer was a right back who is also woeful. It shouldn’t even be a competition. ”No-one”. I’d remind you of his age and again the need for well managed development of a young player. Are you really suggesting that we didn’t need competition for the RB spot over a 46 game season? Whether Smith is the right player for SCFC only time will tell. For a player with about 180 EPL and EFL Championship appearances to his credit I would suggest he isn’t woeful. Might be struggling at the moment4. Verlinden - shipped off the Bolton after we were told it would only be a really appealing offer. It’s a team of loanees scrapping at the bottom of League One. How any anyone can say that’s good for a winger is beyond me. A club minutes away from administration now have a better left winger than us. How. I’ll stick with my previous comments. So it’s best to agree to disagreeFair enough. Each to their own. I don’t think it’s going to be enough to keep them. It was hard to be sat in the away end at Birmingham watching Tommy Smith do nothing with Tom Edwards sat in the away end a few rows away. Chopping and changing won’t help their development. A lot of the youth players at Luton left from lack of game time as I understand it. Unfortunately when you’ve promised young, hungry and athletic you have to expect criticism for not playing the youngsters. At the end of the day those were his words. I really do think they will be gone at the end of the season at this rate.
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 4, 2019 19:24:30 GMT
You havnt got a clue how well they would be doing, we have started slow, clubs do. I think he's doing it right by giving them minutes tbh, it's just the thing to do most of the time. How many other clubs play their youth playere before their senior players? You're in dreamland, 18 year olds getting minutes a big second division club is not bad going for them, its upto them to make an impression when they do get the chance, it's that that keeps them eager well they gain experience at the same time. Chuck an 18 year old in for 46 games and they can think they have made it, they can get complacent, they can get fatigue, their form can dip, they lose confidence and then they struggle. Jones is doing it right imo never mind what campbell senior says, maybe his lad should of stayed at man city he would have been sure for game time🤔 , it isn't like he is an established goalscoring striker at any level but the U23's so what gives him the right to be first choice? We’ve got one point mate so it can’t have been much worse. It’s not a slow start it’s a disastrous start. It’s not just the results it’s the fact we don’t look like we have a clue what we are doing - chopping and changing not knowing to what to do. I suppose every pundit, sports commentator are wrong and or ex players Pejic, Lawrence, Conroy saying that it’s confused and there’s no plan are wrong you berahinosgoals know better? Campbell was the best player against Leeds. They couldn’t cope with him. Who the hell cares if he can only do it for 70 mins at the moment? Why play someone who cures the other side problems for 70 mins when you can play someone for 9p and never cause any real problems eh? They are pundits for a reason, robbie savage is a pundit to put it into perspective "Campbell was the best player V leeds for 70 minutes", hang on, is this the same campbell you're moaning doesn't get played, but he played 70 minutes 2 games ago?
|
|
|
Post by rawli on Sept 4, 2019 19:25:29 GMT
However, if it hadn't been for Coates, we'd be a yoyo club between the 2nd & 3rd tiers. People are quick to rush to insults, but, like it or not, The Coates family are the major reason we have been moderately successful over the past 15 years. And if they're going to take the plaudits for that then they have to take what comes with our current position and what may come in the future... And for the years of shite that went before it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:28:45 GMT
We’ve got one point mate so it can’t have been much worse. It’s not a slow start it’s a disastrous start. It’s not just the results it’s the fact we don’t look like we have a clue what we are doing - chopping and changing not knowing to what to do. I suppose every pundit, sports commentator are wrong and or ex players Pejic, Lawrence, Conroy saying that it’s confused and there’s no plan are wrong you berahinosgoals know better? Campbell was the best player against Leeds. They couldn’t cope with him. Who the hell cares if he can only do it for 70 mins at the moment? Why play someone who cures the other side problems for 70 mins when you can play someone for 9p and never cause any real problems eh? They are pundits for a reason "Campbell was the best player V leeds for 70 minutes", hang on, is this the same campbell you're moaning doesn't get played, but he played 70 minutes 2 games ago? Oh great a pointless cup game. Then he’s dropped for the league again. Great. Be nice if he could maybe have a go in a game that we get points for so we don’t get relegated. He was the best striker preseason. He should have been starting.
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 4, 2019 19:35:51 GMT
They are pundits for a reason "Campbell was the best player V leeds for 70 minutes", hang on, is this the same campbell you're moaning doesn't get played, but he played 70 minutes 2 games ago? Oh great a pointless cup game. Then he’s dropped for the league again. Great. Be nice if he could maybe have a go in a game that we get points for so we don’t get relegated. He was the best striker preseason. He should have been starting. "A pointless cup game" what a crap argument, he saw fit to play him at elland road. Then you moan because he started midweek but didn't start 4 days later. He give him 70 minutes 2 games ago and you're moaning. You're moaning for moanings sake, I'm out. P.s. we have 40 league games to play, each and every one of Edward's, campbell & collins are going to get plenty of game time. Oh and we have 40 games to beat the drop, don't hold your breath for the result of our 'relegation battle 😂 'will you?
|
|
|
Post by stokeyank on Sept 4, 2019 19:42:31 GMT
They are pundits for a reason "Campbell was the best player V leeds for 70 minutes", hang on, is this the same campbell you're moaning doesn't get played, but he played 70 minutes 2 games ago? Oh great a pointless cup game. Then he’s dropped for the league again. Great. Be nice if he could maybe have a go in a game that we get points for so we don’t get relegated. He was the best striker preseason. He should have been starting. Always like to jump on an interesting debate. Both I think have good points, but I will use Alex Ferguson words (much as I dislike ManU) for Campbell right now, if you're good enough you're old enough. From what we have seen he's good enough so the age argument does not hold much weight. Could be said for Edwards but he still (I think) has a bit to do and Collins is very good but, not quite good enough yet (though he's close). Sure some younger player need to be loaned and slowly brought along, others have it to be chucked right in. I would be foolish to assume we know from the outside but all we can do is make judgments on what we have seen.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:51:56 GMT
Oh great a pointless cup game. Then he’s dropped for the league again. Great. Be nice if he could maybe have a go in a game that we get points for so we don’t get relegated. He was the best striker preseason. He should have been starting. Always like to jump on an interesting debate. Both I think have good points, but I will use Alex Ferguson words (much as I dislike ManU) for Campbell right now, if you're good enough you're old enough. From what we have seen he's good enough so the age argument does not hold much weight. Could be said for Edwards but he still (I think) has a bit to do and Collins is very good but, not quite good enough yet (though he's close). Sure some younger player need to be loaned and slowly brought along, others have it to be chucked right in. I would be foolish to assume we know from the outside but all we can do is make judgments on what we have seen. Well exactly and the other point is have you seen any of the others be any better?! Cos I haven’t!
|
|
|
Post by GoBoks on Sept 4, 2019 20:01:27 GMT
My point is that you said "What “infrastructure” are you on about? The academy? The academy that’s produced the youngsters that the current manager is fucking off in favour of some old has beens? Just more money down the drain. Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/290144/jon-coates?page=9#ixzz5yaBlgMFOTake a breath and instead of slagging everything the club does, realize that there is a lot of good to rebuild on. What’s so good that isn’t the ordinary course of any football club in this league? Other than our training facilities that are better? And the community trust? Unless you're a club insider, I bet you don't know a tiny fraction of the resources the club has. In any event, as you yourself say, we have the same infrastructure (more or less) as everyone else trying to get up into the Premier League. Infrastructure we would not have if it had not been for the Coates family.
|
|
|
Post by GoBoks on Sept 4, 2019 20:02:46 GMT
Oh great a pointless cup game. Then he’s dropped for the league again. Great. Be nice if he could maybe have a go in a game that we get points for so we don’t get relegated. He was the best striker preseason. He should have been starting. Always like to jump on an interesting debate. Both I think have good points, but I will use Alex Ferguson words (much as I dislike ManU) for Campbell right now, if you're good enough you're old enough. From what we have seen he's good enough so the age argument does not hold much weight. Could be said for Edwards but he still (I think) has a bit to do and Collins is very good but, not quite good enough yet (though he's close). Sure some younger player need to be loaned and slowly brought along, others have it to be chucked right in. I would be foolish to assume we know from the outside but all we can do is make judgments on what we have seen. Where in the USA are you based?
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Sept 4, 2019 20:33:17 GMT
Oh great a pointless cup game. Then he’s dropped for the league again. Great. Be nice if he could maybe have a go in a game that we get points for so we don’t get relegated. He was the best striker preseason. He should have been starting. "A pointless cup game" what a crap argument, he saw fit to play him at elland road. Then you moan because he started midweek but didn't start 4 days later. He give him 70 minutes 2 games ago and you're moaning. You're moaning for moanings sake, I'm out. P.s. we have 40 league games to play, each and every one of Edward's, campbell & collins are going to get plenty of game time. Oh and we have 40 games to beat the drop, don't hold your breath for the result of our 'relegation battle 😂 'will you? We had two RB's who would have sufficed this season in Edwards and Bauer, he's dropped one and fucked the other off on loan then brought in Smith for £4m who at the moment looks poor, we had Pieters as LB and Tymon as back up he's fucked both of them off and replaced them with a failed winger and an OAP who's legs have gone, brought in a GK presumably as first choice who is now mysteriously third choice. Cousins is an abysmal footballer, Lindsay not much better, Batth is very limited and getting worse daily, he's fucked Bojan off and replaced him with sick note Powell brought in strikers who can't score including Vokes for £9m, used the loan market to bring in players who frankly are un fit or can't be arsed to be here. Our much maligned academy has finally started producing players that could make the grade and Jones has either sent them out on loan or proceeded to destroy their confidence by dropping them, using them very sparingly or in meaningless cup games, face it he's a poor manager and he has to go before he does even more damage.
|
|
|
Post by GoBoks on Sept 4, 2019 21:11:29 GMT
1. Collins - clearly wasn’t first choice and he should be in the team every week. Lindsay is woeful. Batth has been woeful. 2. Campbell - best preseason, has hardly feature. Getting six minutes of the bench isn’t good enough. He’s not happy and looking leave as we know. 3. Edwards - no-one though he wouldn’t be first choice right back this season. He’s not. Our most expensive signing this summer was a right back who is also woeful. It shouldn’t even be a competition. 4. Verlinden - shipped off the Bolton after we were told it would only be a really appealing offer. It’s a team of loanees scrapping at the bottom of League One. How any anyone can say that’s good for a winger is beyond me. A club minutes away from administration now have a better left winger than us. How. You make it sound like Edward's has played like cafu when he has played. Verlinden a better left winger than ince & mclean, give over he has potential, he has hardly played Collins is 18 years old. He has loads of time AND he gets game time, should play every game? You moan about our league position but you want us to throw a bunch of kids in. You're moaning about it but think it's reasonable to sign tp after 6 games. Every single one of them players has had game time this season and we have only played 6 games You could have stopped at "you moan." I think some people wear it like a badge of pride. They hear people say "you go girl" and think "you moan" is a similar exclamation of admiration.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 21:15:27 GMT
You make it sound like Edward's has played like cafu when he has played. Verlinden a better left winger than ince & mclean, give over he has potential, he has hardly played Collins is 18 years old. He has loads of time AND he gets game time, should play every game? You moan about our league position but you want us to throw a bunch of kids in. You're moaning about it but think it's reasonable to sign tp after 6 games. Every single one of them players has had game time this season and we have only played 6 games You could have stopped at "you moan." I think some people wear it like a badge of pride. They hear people say "you go girl" and think "you moan" is a similar exclamation of admiration. And you moan about people moaning as your badge of honour whilst completely ignoring the evidence in front of you that there are major things wrong at the club and just pretend everything fine.
|
|
|
Post by GoBoks on Sept 4, 2019 21:24:14 GMT
You could have stopped at "you moan." I think some people wear it like a badge of pride. They hear people say "you go girl" and think "you moan" is a similar exclamation of admiration. And you moan about people moaning as your badge of honour whilst completely ignoring the evidence in front of you that there are major things wrong at the club and just pretend everything fine. We don't pretend anything. Anyone who can't see there are problems when we're sitting rock bottom of the Championship is an absolute idiot. Calling for everyone and everything to be fired reeks of moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic. I'd rather give the Captain of the ship the resources/information to develop a plan and then time to execute the plan rather than having every Tom, Dick and estokie86 trying to bark out orders when they don't have the foggiest.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 7:06:46 GMT
And you moan about people moaning as your badge of honour whilst completely ignoring the evidence in front of you that there are major things wrong at the club and just pretend everything fine. We don't pretend anything. Anyone who can't see there are problems when we're sitting rock bottom of the Championship is an absolute idiot. Calling for everyone and everything to be fired reeks of moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic. I'd rather give the Captain of the ship the resources/information to develop a plan and then time to execute the plan rather than having every Tom, Dick and estokie86 trying to bark out orders when they don't have the foggiest. I see. 8 months isn’t enough time to develop a plan. I expect it is easier for you not going to games to not get quite as annoyed as others but this isn’t apprentice hour. If I’m 8 months your best plans have made us worse when you genuinely believed they were good enough to go for promotion, something has gone very wrong hasn’t it. You say people don’t have the foggiest and I’m not an expert but you’ve been on at people all summer concerned about the players he’s bought not suiting the system, the obvious gaps and lack of a Plan B...all of which turned out to be true.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2019 8:29:57 GMT
And you moan about people moaning as your badge of honour whilst completely ignoring the evidence in front of you that there are major things wrong at the club and just pretend everything fine. We don't pretend anything. Anyone who can't see there are problems when we're sitting rock bottom of the Championship is an absolute idiot. Calling for everyone and everything to be fired reeks of moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic. I'd rather give the Captain of the ship the resources/information to develop a plan and then time to execute the plan rather than having every Tom, Dick and estokie86 trying to bark out orders when they don't have the foggiest. The Captain of the Titanic is a very good analogy for Jones's reign.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 5, 2019 8:47:13 GMT
Let’s try and respond to the general statement you made in your earliest post, and your comments above in a positive way that may open up the subject for a more balanced debate. 1. Edwards, Campbell and Collins have not been “f****d off”. All three have featured in the 1st team or been on the bench this season. 2. Collins has been given a new 5 year contract and has also Captained the 1st team. 3. Verlinden has gone on loan until January (4/5 months). He will no doubt gain invaluable game time, experience of working with other coaches, experience of different tactics and experience of playing with other footballers. It could be argued that his going to Bolton will enhance his “long term” development. 5. You failed to mention Souttar (a player that I’ve never seen play) who will gain massive experience at Fleetwood playing in an uncompromising EFL Division. Whether or not he will make the grade of a Championship or above player only time will tell. As with Verlinden it could be argued that his going to will enhance his “long term” development. 6. There are a couple other young players who have gone out on loan i.e Shenton and a goalkeeper whose name escapes me. Would you deny them the opportunity of gaining experience? 7. It’s healthy to have competition for specific positions i.e right back. IMHO Edwards will in the long term thrive from his competition from Smith. Oh yes this “competition” nonesense. Smith was brought in above him. All of them should be playing and if they aren’t they will go. No point arguing with you - let’s see what happens at the end of the season if Jones stays. Smith and Edwards have played. Campbell and Hogan have played. Collins and Lindsay have played. In fact pretty much the entire squad have played so how is this "competition" thing nonsense? What is nonsense is a selection policy based solely on a players birthdate. We are not a youth club or a Sunday league side. Running a professional football club on the basis of favouring youth (or any other random characteristic) is ridiculous. If you like watching enthusiastic youngsters learning their trade why not follow the under 18s team and leave the proper football to the adults?
|
|
|
Post by GoBoks on Sept 5, 2019 10:18:11 GMT
Right so Verlinden going to Bolton instead of playing here, buying Tommy Smith to replace Tom Edwards, Campbell sat on the bench. God knows about Collins but he should be starting every game. They should all be getting regular game time here. They should probably all be starting. Not like they could have done any worse! Edwards should never have lost his place as first choice right back. They’ll all be gone at the end of the season no doubt. Let’s try and respond to the general statement you made in your earliest post, and your comments above in a positive way that may open up the subject for a more balanced debate. 1. Edwards, Campbell and Collins have not been “f****d off”. All three have featured in the 1st team or been on the bench this season. 2. Collins has been given a new 5 year contract and has also Captained the 1st team. 3. Verlinden has gone on loan until January (4/5 months). He will no doubt gain invaluable game time, experience of working with other coaches, experience of different tactics and experience of playing with other footballers. It could be argued that his going to Bolton will enhance his “long term” development. 5. You failed to mention Souttar (a player that I’ve never seen play) who will gain massive experience at Fleetwood playing in an uncompromising EFL Division. Whether or not he will make the grade of a Championship or above player only time will tell. As with Verlinden it could be argued that his going to will enhance his “long term” development. 6. There are a couple other young players who have gone out on loan i.e Shenton and a goalkeeper whose name escapes me. Would you deny them the opportunity of gaining experience? 7. It’s healthy to have competition for specific positions i.e right back. IMHO Edwards will in the long term thrive from his competition from Smith. OS2 don’t waste your time with facts. There are some on here that are so distraught with our current predicament that they simply don’t have the capability to consider anything other than their own opinion on how this happened and the actions needed to turn the situation around. After all, when one sings “We’ll be with you every step along the way” it surely implies “as long as you’re winning”, doesn’t it?
|
|
|
Post by GoBoks on Sept 5, 2019 10:53:35 GMT
We don't pretend anything. Anyone who can't see there are problems when we're sitting rock bottom of the Championship is an absolute idiot. Calling for everyone and everything to be fired reeks of moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic. I'd rather give the Captain of the ship the resources/information to develop a plan and then time to execute the plan rather than having every Tom, Dick and estokie86 trying to bark out orders when they don't have the foggiest. I see. 8 months isn’t enough time to develop a plan. I expect it is easier for you not going to games to not get quite as annoyed as others but this isn’t apprentice hour. If I’m 8 months your best plans have made us worse when you genuinely believed they were good enough to go for promotion, something has gone very wrong hasn’t it. You say people don’t have the foggiest and I’m not an expert but you’ve been on at people all summer concerned about the players he’s bought not suiting the system, the obvious gaps and lack of a Plan B...all of which turned out to be true. I assume the 86 in your username is your birth year. If so, I’ve been supporting Stoke about 50% longer than you’ve been alive. Don’t try compare my unhappiness with the situation to yours. I simply try to deal with it in a more constructive way instead of bad mouthing everyone and everything to do with the club. In my experience, and yes there’s been a lot of it, there are very few situations in life that are improved by bad mouthing the people who are struggling to turn the situation around. In almost all cases it makes the situation worse. You may think you’re stirring up sentiment against the “hierarchy”, that will ultimately result in the fans forcing a change, but it is good to reflect on how that has worked out in the past.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2019 11:04:21 GMT
I see. 8 months isn’t enough time to develop a plan. I expect it is easier for you not going to games to not get quite as annoyed as others but this isn’t apprentice hour. If I’m 8 months your best plans have made us worse when you genuinely believed they were good enough to go for promotion, something has gone very wrong hasn’t it. You say people don’t have the foggiest and I’m not an expert but you’ve been on at people all summer concerned about the players he’s bought not suiting the system, the obvious gaps and lack of a Plan B...all of which turned out to be true. I assume the 86 in your username is your birth year. If so, I’ve been supporting Stoke about 50% longer than you’ve been alive. Don’t try compare my unhappiness with the situation to yours. I simply try to deal with it in a more constructive way instead of bad mouthing everyone and everything to do with the club. In my experience, and yes there’s been a lot of it, there are very few situations in life that are improved by bad mouthing the people who are struggling to turn the situation around. In almost all cases it makes the situation worse. You may think you’re stirring up sentiment against the “hierarchy”, that will ultimately result in the fans forcing a change, but it is good to reflect on how that has worked out in the past. I’m not trying to stir up or force anything. I am here to discuss opinions and share my views like most people use the board for. I regularly make posts in support of our players so to say I just bad mouth and negative is wrong. I’m not comparing your unhappiness to mine I just don’t know who you think you are criticising everyone else for having an opinion. At least you have responded to me this time instead of just having conversation with others about what a terrible supporter I am.
|
|