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Post by ladyinred on Aug 18, 2017 14:02:20 GMT
It's all good and well saying there's no need for LGBT supporters groups and I can see why people are saying it just causes more divisions. However, I assume they provide a safe space for LGBT fans where they don't have to worry about homophobic abuse which is all too common at football matches. Speaking as a gay person - I have never felt unsafe at a football match because of my sexuality. In fact I have actually felt more intimidated by 'Ginger' abuse - because everyone can see that I am Ginger, whilst some idiot is stood near me abusing a ginger player. Sounds funny I know - but that is my experience.
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Post by walrus on Aug 18, 2017 14:03:04 GMT
Just not necessary. As said above, it is segregation that is not needed and it is a backwards step. Homophobic chanting will not stop, if their is an LGBTQIA supporters flag draped from a stand. The chants that get directed at mainly Brighton fans, are football fans playing on stereotypes - its what happens. Just like singing 'Where's my car stereo'? to Scousers. Obviously one flag won't make much difference, but the article, as well as many other reliable sources, suggest that homophobic chanting has significantly reduced at English football matches in recent years. The representatives from LGBT supporters clubs quoted in the articles think their groups' actions have contributed to that.
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Post by scfcballers on Aug 18, 2017 14:09:17 GMT
It's all good and well saying there's no need for LGBT supporters groups and I can see why people are saying it just causes more divisions. However, I assume they provide a safe space for LGBT fans where they don't have to worry about homophobic abuse which is all too common at football matches. Speaking as a gay person - I have never felt unsafe at a football match because of my sexuality. In fact I have actually felt more intimidated by 'Ginger' abuse - because everyone can see that I am Ginger, whilst some idiot is stood near me abusing a ginger player. Sounds funny I know - but that is my experience. I don't get to go to many stoke matches myself but I remember feeling quite uncomfortable when one of our supporters was shouting homophobic abuse at Wolly for the majority of the game. I guess it affects different people in different ways. Like racism, im not sure how homophobia could be stamped out of football once and for all.
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Post by ladyinred on Aug 18, 2017 14:10:48 GMT
Just not necessary. As said above, it is segregation that is not needed and it is a backwards step. Homophobic chanting will not stop, if their is an LGBTQIA supporters flag draped from a stand. The chants that get directed at mainly Brighton fans, are football fans playing on stereotypes - its what happens. Just like singing 'Where's my car stereo'? to Scousers. Obviously one flag won't make much difference, but the article, as well as many other reliable sources, suggest that homophobic chanting has significantly reduced at English football matches in recent years. The representatives from LGBT supporters clubs quoted in the articles think their groups' actions have contributed to that. Any proof that it is because of the LGBT supporters groups, or is it just that society in general is more accepting/tolerant/equal/diverse etc? I'd guess that Homophobic abuse has reduced all areas of British Society
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Post by ladyinred on Aug 18, 2017 14:17:40 GMT
Speaking as a gay person - I have never felt unsafe at a football match because of my sexuality. In fact I have actually felt more intimidated by 'Ginger' abuse - because everyone can see that I am Ginger, whilst some idiot is stood near me abusing a ginger player. Sounds funny I know - but that is my experience. I don't get to go to many stoke matches myself but I remember feeling quite uncomfortable when one of our supporters was shouting homophobic abuse at Wolly for the majority of the game. I guess it affects different people in different ways. Like racism, im not sure how homophobia could be stamped out of football once and for all. I find any 'personal abuse' towards our own players uncomfortable. I also find racist comments make me feel uncomfortable, not personally threatened, but uncomfortable/ashamed because those shouting are also Stoke City fans and I don't want them associated with me or my club. If there was an openly gay player and he was getting homophobic abuse then I would feel uncomfortable for the same reason.
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Post by dexta on Aug 18, 2017 14:22:19 GMT
Bore off Sick of having it rammed down our throats having what rammed downn your throat fella
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Post by walrus on Aug 18, 2017 14:22:35 GMT
Obviously one flag won't make much difference, but the article, as well as many other reliable sources, suggest that homophobic chanting has significantly reduced at English football matches in recent years. The representatives from LGBT supporters clubs quoted in the articles think their groups' actions have contributed to that. Any proof that it is because of the LGBT supporters groups, or is it just that society in general is more accepting/tolerant/equal/diverse etc? I'd guess that Homophobic abuse has reduced all areas of British Society It's obviously very difficult to say exactly what has prompted the change, but it's almost a chicken and egg situation. Has society become more tolerant because LGBT groups exist, or do LGBT groups exist because society has become more tolerant? Almost certainly a bit of both.
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Post by ladyinred on Aug 18, 2017 14:29:14 GMT
Any proof that it is because of the LGBT supporters groups, or is it just that society in general is more accepting/tolerant/equal/diverse etc? I'd guess that Homophobic abuse has reduced all areas of British Society It's obviously very difficult to say exactly what has prompted the change, but it's almost a chicken and egg situation. Has society become more tolerant because LGBT groups exist, or do LGBT groups exist because society has become more tolerant? Almost certainly a bit of both. There can be no question that LGBT groups have had a positive impact on equality in society. I just don't see the need for one at a football match. We are all Stoke City supporters - sexuality really is irrelevant in this context.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 18, 2017 14:29:25 GMT
I am not sure that we have that many left-handed, ginger, burslem-born, trainspotters amongst our faithful fans, do we?
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Post by marrer on Aug 18, 2017 14:36:23 GMT
I thought that with the late kick off tomorrow that made us the Last Game Before Tea which makes us all LGBT Stokies, at least for tomorrow.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 18, 2017 14:43:39 GMT
I thought that with the late kick off tomorrow that made us the Last Game Before Tea which makes us all LGBT Stokies, at least for tomorrow. Against the Loathsome Gunner Ballbag Tosspots.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Aug 18, 2017 15:17:33 GMT
Why on earth do we need to segregate supporters? Even gingers are welcome! Ooooo I dunno about that, Tricky. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 18, 2017 15:20:16 GMT
Even gingers are welcome! Ooooo I dunno about that, Tricky. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif) Lady in red will be compiling a list, soon!
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 18, 2017 15:22:52 GMT
Like most people at Stoke games, I am a heterosexual male. And like most, I couldn't care less whether the person in the seat next to me is male, female, black, white, straight, gay or whatever, as long as they're not being a twat and they're a Stokie. However I do wonder how many people who quickly say, "We don't need an LGBT supporters group, it only serves to enforce barriers between gay and straight fans" do so because it's easier than admitting that the idea of a gay Stoke fans club makes them uncomfortable. If I suggested a group was founded for OAP Stokies which older fans could use to meet and socialise with others with similar life experience and interests to themselves, and use to make sure that older people at matches were well-looked after, I can pretty safely say that not one single person would say it is a bad idea, and that it would only build boundaries between fans of different ages. I'm playing devil's advocate, but it's food for thought. As a 70 year old I think a Stoke City pensioners group is a bad idea, it would be too intellectual for you lot. 😁😁😁
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Post by Mendicant on Aug 18, 2017 15:31:00 GMT
LGBT campaigns are a solution looking for a problem. I believe the average British person has no objection to gay people/lesbians/bumhole loving etc. But that doesn't pay the activists' bills, no prejudice means no funding, so an illusion of prejudice has to be created and the BBC will always oblige.
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Aug 18, 2017 15:31:56 GMT
Along with Brighton... I don't get what is wrong in just being a fan of a club? Do we need to separate people into supporters clubs? What next, the Stoke City Protestant Supporters Club? The Tokes Clitty Offish Elaborate Supper Group Sponsered By BenjaminBiscuit? Benjy-fied for you.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 18, 2017 15:49:44 GMT
It's funny how people say, "I don't care if you're gay/straight, black/white, Christian/Muslim, male/female, etc" and yet they have a problem with collectivization of groups of people different from them. I'm not convinced a LGBT group would fracture the overall umbrella of Stoke City supporters. Just seems like it would be a group for those within a community, that also support the club, to meet up. I'm not going to lose any sleep over Stoke not yet having one, but I sure as hell don't have a problem if our LGBT brothers and sisters start one.
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Post by leicspotter on Aug 18, 2017 15:50:36 GMT
As Walrus has said, it was an interesting article and Brighton fans have worked very hard to try and stem the anti gay chanting at their games. What many of us, me included, have thought to be 'witty banter' is, in reality, neither witty nor banter...and usually not very original either. Apparently the Brighton fans 'stock' retort is "your too ugly to be gay".
I've never been on the receiving end of any sort of "phobic" chanting so cannot comment on the effect it has on those being targeted, so I think we have to accept that those groups in society who feel victimised in this way do have a point, and should be respected.
As pointed out in the article, the real way to stop racist or homophobic abuse is to report it!
Whether or not having an LGBT "group" is the answer, I've no idea, but if it helps, then fine.
Personally I think having openly LGBT players would go much further to stopping it...
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Post by symons55 on Aug 18, 2017 15:53:55 GMT
I found this on Auntie Beeb........or is that being gender exclusive or some other heinous criminal offence. We know what LGBT stands for but there are many other terms people now identity with, giving us the acronym LGBTQQIAAP. The 10 terms cover the different ways people define their gender and sexuality, but the list is not exhaustive. Some people may also identify with more than one of these descriptions. Pride in London, which takes place this year on Saturday 27 June, gives the LGBT+ community a platform to campaign for "freedoms" to have true equality. Stick figures showing a variety of family groups LGBT+ is an "inclusive" way to represent all the different identities in the longer acronym but here's a breakdown of what each of the letters in LGBTQQIAAP mean. L - lesbian: a woman who is attracted to other women G - gay: a man who is attracted to other men or broadly people who identify as homosexual B - bisexual: a person who is attracted to both men and women T - transgender: a person whose gender identity is different from the sex the doctor put down on their birth certificate Q - queer: originally used as a hate term, some people want to reclaim the word, while others find it offensive. It can be a political statement, suggest that someone doesn't want to identify with "binaries" (e.g. male v female, homosexual v straight) or that they don't want to label themselves only by their sexual activity Q - questioning: a person who is still exploring their sexuality or gender identity I - intersex: a person whose body is not definitively male or female. This may be because they have chromosomes which are not XX or XY or because their genitals or reproductive organs are not considered "standard" A - allies: a person who identifies as straight but supports people in the LGBTQQIAAP community A - asexual: a person who is not attracted in a sexual way to people of any gender P - pansexual: a person whose sexual attraction is not based on gender and may themselves be fluid when it comes to gender or sexual identity Follow @bbcnewsbeat on Twitter, BBCNewsbeat on Instagram, Message from poster.....I thought Newsbeat was a kids programme ??
Now that ought to fill a few blocks of seats !!
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Aug 18, 2017 15:59:39 GMT
Bore off Sick of having it rammed down our throats yeah comments like this explain exactly why the club needs a LGBT group
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Aug 18, 2017 16:02:31 GMT
For all this 'don't care if people are gay' stuff, there seems to be a lot of unhappiness on here with any group being set up.
What are people's issues with it honestly?
As for the 'rammed down our throats' stuff, jesus fucking christ
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Post by symons55 on Aug 18, 2017 16:06:35 GMT
Why on earth do we need to segregate supporters? Because they fight ? Or used to that is :-)
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 18, 2017 16:12:45 GMT
I feel the folks who leave 10 minutes early are being unfairly targeted for vile abuse , I demand a safe haven now ![;-|](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/di8AbUjEyg4R6vkC_KKX.gif)
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Post by Mendicant on Aug 18, 2017 16:14:28 GMT
For all this 'don't care if people are gay' stuff, there seems to be a lot of unhappiness on here with any group being set up. What are people's issues with it honestly? As for the 'rammed down our throats' stuff, jesus fucking christ There's no problem about a special interest group. There is a problem however of an agenda of political correctness using football for publicity. If nothing else, it's opportunistic, dreary, and serves to make decent people appear like bigots. The club needs an LGBT fan group like it needs a fan group for any other cohort that feels disenfranchised or victimised.
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Post by sonichuth on Aug 18, 2017 16:16:26 GMT
A move that would inconvenience nobody, and possibly help some fans.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Aug 18, 2017 16:17:36 GMT
For all this 'don't care if people are gay' stuff, there seems to be a lot of unhappiness on here with any group being set up. What are people's issues with it honestly? As for the 'rammed down our throats' stuff, jesus fucking christ There's no problem about a special interest group. There is a problem however of an agenda of political correctness using football for publicity. If nothing else, it's opportunistic, dreary, and serves to make decent people appear like bigots. The club needs an LGBT fan group like it needs a fan group for any other cohort that feels disenfranchised or victimised. whats 'politically correct' about this? Who exactly would be made to look like bigots? And the 'victimised' bit fucking hell
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Post by mattador78 on Aug 18, 2017 16:17:36 GMT
For all this 'don't care if people are gay' stuff, there seems to be a lot of unhappiness on here with any group being set up. What are people's issues with it honestly? As for the 'rammed down our throats' stuff, jesus fucking christ A bloke I know through work is a gay man or a raging homo as he describes himself, he's just opened a bar one of the lads who I work with asked him if it was a gay bar he looked shocked and said it wasn't as it would be full of queers then and who would want that. He explained that in his opinion you put a group of people together who feel prejudiced against and it just increases the prejudice they receive and what they feel towards others, he prefers the natural laugh and general chat with all genders and if somebody doesn't like him because he's gay thenthey weren't worth knowing anyway. In a way it's the same as football fans in a way sat in the stadium Saturday I will loathe and despise all things Arsenal but then when it's over I will go home and Sunday chat with my neighbour who is an Arsenal fan (surprisingly not a twat and doesn't hate stoke because he lives here after moving from London we are now his local team) and joke and get on.
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Post by mattador78 on Aug 18, 2017 16:18:24 GMT
I feel the folks who leave 10 minutes early are being unfairly targeted for vile abuse , I demand a safe haven now ![;-|](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/di8AbUjEyg4R6vkC_KKX.gif) I suggest chesterfield
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Post by Mendicant on Aug 18, 2017 16:19:03 GMT
There's no problem about a special interest group. There is a problem however of an agenda of political correctness using football for publicity. If nothing else, it's opportunistic, dreary, and serves to make decent people appear like bigots. The club needs an LGBT fan group like it needs a fan group for any other cohort that feels disenfranchised or victimised. whats 'politically correct' about this? Who exactly would be made to look like bigots? And the 'victimised' bit fucking hell Have you read the BBC article?
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 18, 2017 16:21:08 GMT
Along with Brighton... I don't get what is wrong in just being a fan of a club? Do we need to separate people into supporters clubs? What next, the Stoke City Protestant Supporters Club? The Tokes Clitty Offish Elaborate Supper Group Sponsered By BenjaminBiscuit? Benjy-fied for you. That made me burst out laughing ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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