Donald Trump

[wannabee]

Aug 28, 2023 0:06:24 GMT @cvillestokie said:

Aug 27, 2023 23:29:01 GMT wannabee said:

I don't make the rules but Hunters late payment of Taxes for 2017 and 2018 which were paid in 2021 falls under a misdemeanour in the US Penal Code

The Gun application charge was successfully challenged under the 2nd Ammendment in United States v Daniels 

What's your point?

My point? He was getting legal advice to make plea deals. So, I assume that people with good knowledge of the case are a little concerned about his practices. Though, it is nice that $100k of theft is only a misdemeanor.

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/08/19/politics/hunter-biden-plea-deal-collapse/index.html

It’s great when rich people can steal from the government and unlawfully purchase guns. We should promote more of the same behaviour.



Take a normal person, they aren’t getting a nice plea deal, are they? A black man spends years behind bars. Hunter gets to make more mistakes. If justice was blind, he should go to prison.

He is a Citizen like anyone else why shouldn't he consult council? If you are arguing generically that Rich people in US have better access to better Legal Advice that's a whole different equation 

It's the US Penal Code that deem late payment of taxes is a misdemeanour, if you disagree take it up with your Congressman 

There is no proof he purchased a Gun illegally, he has not been tried and the 2nd Amendment was upheld in the case I referenced

I'm not here to defend the Laws of the US just to correct the hysterical hyperbole by  ignoramuses (not you) that Hunter has committed some heinous crimes for which he should be sent to Gaol.

The elevation of Trump appointed David Weiss to Special Council after he has investigated Hunter for the last 5 years and which at the end the best he could come up with was pleading guilty to a misdemeanour and rehabilitation is interesting in so far as it will prolong the investigation further and may allow further fishing expeditions. Do you think after 5 years Weiss is going to come up with something new? Trump has already said he regrets appointing Weiss, presumably because he couldn't come up with any evidence to convict a bit like Republican Brad Reffensberger in Georgia couldn't "find" 11,780 Votes when requested by Trump

I welcome people being prosecuted if they have committed crimes not innuendo without substance 

[Paul Spencer]

Aug 27, 2023 21:50:48 GMT wannabee said:

Aug 27, 2023 18:52:30 GMT slippyblunger said:

He deserves it though.

I wonder if you will answer Royland's question?  because I'm struggling to understand why Hunter should be incarcerated 

On what charges?

Surely the fact that he's the son of Joe Biden is more than enough reason for him to 'deserve' it ...

[satoshi]

How many that visited Epsteins Island have been charged?

A big fat zero

The USA is the most corrupt country on earth

Apparently Biden got 80 million votes 😁

[elystokie]

Aug 28, 2023 1:42:35 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Aug 27, 2023 21:50:48 GMT wannabee said:

I wonder if you will answer Royland's question?  because I'm struggling to understand why Hunter should be incarcerated 

On what charges?

Surely the fact that he's the son of Joe Biden is more than enough reason for him to 'deserve' it ...

Obviously in the eyes of 'some' 🤦

[slippyblunger]

Aug 28, 2023 1:31:37 GMT wannabee said:

Aug 28, 2023 0:06:24 GMT @cvillestokie said:

My point? He was getting legal advice to make plea deals. So, I assume that people with good knowledge of the case are a little concerned about his practices. Though, it is nice that $100k of theft is only a misdemeanor.

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/08/19/politics/hunter-biden-plea-deal-collapse/index.html

It’s great when rich people can steal from the government and unlawfully purchase guns. We should promote more of the same behaviour.



Take a normal person, they aren’t getting a nice plea deal, are they? A black man spends years behind bars. Hunter gets to make more mistakes. If justice was blind, he should go to prison.

He is a Citizen like anyone else why shouldn't he consult council? If you are arguing generically that Rich people in US have better access to better Legal Advice that's a whole different equation 

It's the US Penal Code that deem late payment of taxes is a misdemeanour, if you disagree take it up with your Congressman 

There is no proof he purchased a Gun illegally, he has not been tried and the 2nd Amendment was upheld in the case I referenced

I'm not here to defend the Laws of the US just to correct the hysterical hyperbole by  ignoramuses (not you) that Hunter has committed some heinous crimes for which he should be sent to Gaol.

The elevation of Trump appointed David Weiss to Special Council after he has investigated Hunter for the last 5 years and which at the end the best he could come up with was pleading guilty to a misdemeanour and rehabilitation is interesting in so far as it will prolong the investigation further and may allow further fishing expeditions. Do you think after 5 years Weiss is going to come up with something new? Trump has already said he regrets appointing Weiss, presumably because he couldn't come up with any evidence to convict a bit like Republican Brad Reffensberger in Georgia couldn't "find" 11,780 Votes when requested by Trump

I welcome people being prosecuted if they have committed crimes not innuendo without substance 

Oh dear. 🤦‍♂️

[Gawa]

Aug 26, 2023 9:29:49 GMT st3mark said:

Aug 25, 2023 15:25:00 GMT Gawa said:

1. So because he used the word peaceful, that means he didn't incite violence? So lets say for example I have millions of followers who I have a huge amount of influence over that follow me across the country to show their support. And lets say I tweet "King Charles has raped and killed thousands of children, we know it's true and we have the evidence. Everyone gather at Buckingham Palace peacefully". And then long behold lots of people roll up where I told them to go and behave violently as they are outraged by what they've just learned. Does that not make me slightly accountable because without my tweet nobody would have turned up at Buckingham Palace in their droves and no violence would have occurred. Or at the very least a helluva lot less?

2. This paragraph doesn't make sense for alot of people because of my point 1. It makes sense to you because I guess you believe the election was stolen from Trump and it is all a huge conspiracy to keep the reigning president out of office. I'm not sure the reason for the corruption as I don't follow QANON and stuff but isn't it because Trump (previously best friends with one of Americas biggest pedos who died under his 24 hour watch) was going to expose all the corrupt liberals who have dungeons like Oprah filled with kids they rape and drink the blood of to stay young? Or something like this. Because the illumanti who control the world are all liberals with a common shared interest in paedophilia, notably not so interested in any financial crimes, and Trump is here to save our children? You can see why the average person like me finds it a bit far fetched.  

3. When did the media turn Musk into a villain? He's still regularly portrayed very well in the media. People like me thought he was a cunt long before Twitter. And it seems I'm not alone, there's a thread there of people slagging him 5 years ago - oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/280949/elon-musk

4. 100% agree about not being a zombie and believing everything you see on TV. All you need to do is read the thread about the UK government and you'll find the vast majority of the stories on there often go unreported on the BBC, Daily Mail, Telegraph etc.. But with the trump stuff I don't see anything coming from them outside of main stream media which is anything more than opinion. We keep hearing about the election being stolen. But where's the proof or evidence? Why was it so easy to steal when he lost but when he won it wasn't stolen? Or Pizzagate and all these other mad theories. Again mostly opinion pieces with very little evidence. Whereas the stuff in the government thread about the corruption of the conservative government which goes unreported, well it's there with facts alongside it. Whether it be accounts from a company which benefited from tory contracts and their connections to tory members, or if its about the directors in the BBC and their links to the conservative party, or if it's about Kwami-Kasi and his links to businessmen who made lots of money from the economy crashing. But "Oprah has a dungeon filled with kids she drinks blood from to stay young" doesn't really convince me no matter how many likes the facebook post has. I need more than just a baseless accusation with next to no evidence. 

5. I find the distrust of MSM stuff quite dangerous too. Because while I agree it's important to look at lots of different sources of information to get a balanced view and to ensure you're doing your due diligence. It feels very much to me that for Trump supporters it's now a case of "unless it's coming from us, you can't trust anything from any other source" and that's quite dangerous because you're putting your full 100% faith into what any Trump supporting media will tell you. 


To me I just think there's a lack of inquisitiveness sometimes from some of his supporters. But then maybe people like yourself would say that about me with Jeremy Corbyn too who also had the MSM against him. I just found his rhetoric about inequality and greed and how the top 1% have more wealth than half the world like alot more believable and stuff I could get behind to try and make the world a more fair place. Whereas if he went down the route of telling me that the super rich people (like elon musk) aren't the ones we should be concerned about but instead it's random tv presenters with much less money than the insanely rich that are the problem. And the reason for that is because all of them are pedophiles and we have to protect our kids. I'd expect the people who have the most influence over the world to be those with the businesses and the money and the connections. Not the randomers who are all raping the kids and keeping them in dungeons and shit. 

I just don't get it. 

Sorry for late reply, I went out last night.

1. No not just because he used the word peaceful, the entire message that he put out had no suggestion that anyone should be anything other than law abiding.

2. I do believe the election was stolen. Trump had more votes than anyone had ever had in American history. Yet Biden, a man who can't speak also managed to get more votes than anyone in Americas history, with hundreds of thousands of votes appearing overnight.

Epstein was killed because Clinton and Obama had visited the island. If Trumps name was on that list it would have been released. They would have been so excited to get it out there. Anyone who knows anything about the Clinton's disappears.

legacyfirearmsco.com/news/the-list-of-clinton-associates-who-died-mysteriously-check-it-out/

Obamas chef died in an accident recently too, and guess what so did Clinton's. What are the odds?

3. You may have noticed that all celebrities and mainstream media turned on twitter and all celebrities started threads accounts. It's all because musk exposed some truths and he refuses to be controlled or bought. I'm not particularly a fan of musk, but I admire his transparency. Read through the twitter files and at the very least you'll wonder why it didn't make the news.

4. Largely in agreement with each other here - until you mention Trump. The media loved him until he dared to try and drain the swamp. Nobody called him a racist until the media said it a thousand times. The zombies just believe that he is a racist, regardless of the fact that he had the most diverse cabinet in United States history at the time.

Everything he said about covid they portrayed as lies and racist. Now 4 years later they are confirming that it did come from where trump said. Only the same media that said it was racist for him to say it now don't have a problem with it being said by the current regime.

During the civil sexual case against him they found him guilty of one crime against a woman they never even successfully proved that he had ever met. They had the 'victim' on the news after and she said 'rape is sexy' before they cut the interview.

5. You're right about trust/mistrust of media, I don't just go about life trusting sources from trump supporters. I was raised very left wing. I look at both sides and make my own mind up. I have my eyes open enough to know that each one of trumps indictments has come a day after a Biden family scandal was happening in the courts. Imagine the coincidence. The reason I mistrust the media around trump is because I listen to what I hear him say with my own ears and not what the news tells me that he said. The reason I won't believe that he incited violence is because I saw the tweet with my own eyes and therefore believe my own eyes over the media.

Hope I responded to the majority of what you said, your post was pretty long.

It's great to see other viewpoints and feel free to respond, I'll be concentrating on football from now until the weekend is over but I'm sure I'll be back for more trump soon. I'm as fascinated with him as the rest of the world is.

Also, when you mentioned previously about looking up vivek. Look up kari lake too, she has huge political potential in my opinion.

Can I just begin this by retiring that I don't think any of our opinions are likely to change loads but I still think it's interesting to talk about. I also think alot of parallels can be found between Trump and Corbyn in the sense that both have a much deeper reach than the average president/prime minister and supporters of both believe that the MSM have unfairly reported on them. As a corbyn supporter I do think we have things in common with some Trump supporters. Although as I'm not a Trump fan I'm obviously challenging some of your stuff below, but I still respect and appreciate your views even if we are on opposite sides of the political divide.  

1. The fact of the matter still stands though that it was his tweet which invoked thousands of people to descend on the capital building. Was there not a black kid recently arreseted in New York because he peacefully suggested his followers descend on an area in Manhatten to get like a 100 odd free gaming consoles. He was arrested on the spot due to the violence which occurred from it despite advertising it as a peaceful event. I don't see Trump supporters fighting his case. Many probably think he deserves to be arrested. 

2. "More votes than anyone in history" is something I expect though given the population increase over time. America's population is the highest it has ever been in history. Looking through past elections:

2000 total votes - 101 million
2004 total votes - 120 million
2008 total votes - 130 million
2020 total votes - 155 million (Total population - 335 million so still less than half turnout)

So generally speaking, providing voter turnout is high, there will be alot of votes. And the voter turnout for the 2020 election was higher than it's been anytime in recent history which is to no surprise given the rise of Trump and his followers. 

So if Epsteins death which occurred under 24 hour watch during Trumps presidency is due to other people. What's the point in even getting him in as president? I thought Trump is the saviour of kids yet even with the top job in the land the pedos still disappear under his watch. Is anything Trumps fault? Or is there an excuse for everything. 

Also when you mention the likes of Biden, Clinton, Obama it doesn't really have the same affect. I don't see people who worship the ground these people walk on as if they're the second reincarnation of Jesus Christ. You can think that both Trump and Clinton had a very dodgy relationship with Epstein. 

3. I don't have a twitter account so I didn't really notice anything myself personally. I think you sent these twitter files in the last response earlier? I still need to read them. If you haven't sent the link then please re-send. I don't understand what you mean by Musk refuses to be "controlled or bought" - maybe I need to read these files to understand it. I think a man who has accumulated the wealth which Musk has will always have a motive - and cosying up to a potential president who has no interest in tackling inequality or taxing the wealthiest in society or clamping down on their tax evasion - for Musk this probably feels like a good person to get close to. Especially considering those to the left are the ones which feel people like Musk should be paying alot more tax than he is.

4. When you say "drain the swamp", what does that actually mean. And I'm not being funny or anything with you here but what does that refer to? I think you raise a very good point though in relation to his cabinet and it being the most diverse in American history. I presume that's correct and it is something which certainly didn't get reported much. 

I think the early research from alot of countries suggested the virus originated in Wuhan. That wasn't some original piece of investigative journalism which came from Trump. What people mocked more where the "China Virus" quotes as well as suggestions of injecting yourself with bleach to fight it. I see mocking that no different to mocking the videos of sleepy joe speaking bollocks.

I haven't looked into the specifics of each and every case. I believe one which recently surfaced was based on events which occurred a number of years back, and when going up against a man with the power of Trump, it was unlikely to get a conviction. What concerns me more is the volume of cases which have been raised against Trump throughout his career and how many of those may have been paid off like Stormy too. We can talk all day about the media "turning on him" and try to make out that people are making allegations to damage his character. What about the tens of allegations which were raised long before he ever contested his presidency. As well as his very close relationship to Epstein in the 90s too. I don't feel any of that gets questioned by the average Trump supporter because unless it's coming from a Trump source it's just that "MSM are out to get Trump everything is false". Have MSM been out to get Trump from the day he was born? I don't think so. 

5. I think that's a fair point and I think that it's important to highlight as well that what people say can be interpreted in many different ways. I agree that listening to the primary source, Trump in this case, is a better way to make an opinion and judgement rather than reading some journalists interpretation of what Trump said. And I'm particularly guilty of never really watching much of Trumps speeches in full in recent years and instead just reading/watching snippets posted online which could be taken out of context. 

6. I do think though that social media has had alot of influence on peoples views on Trump. For instance I have an Aunt and Uncle in their 60s who aren't very good with technology and they don't have kids either. They've never really had any deep interest in politics for as long as I have known them. Around 3 years ago my Auntie got facebook for the first time and she obviously doesn't understand how to setup privacy settings so many of the things she comments on appear on my news feed. The only way she could have possibly have became so Trump obsessed is either through Facebook or Youtube as these are the only 2 things she uses the internet for aside from printing off random sewing patterns. But I don't think Trump supporters generally recognise the influence which the likes of facebook has had in pushing his message and agenda. The focus is very much on "MSM bad" and MSM against trump but little recognition towards how social media has been very bias to Trumps advantage (in my opinion). Now of course you could just claim this is MSM going against Trump as there is a MSM article here which references the influence facebook had - www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51034641 but I've witnessed it with my own eyes in seeing people with no political interest at all suddenly become super fans of a presidential candidate in a foreign country. 

7. Like I said previously in another post. I personally think the American politics system is rigged to ensure that whichever candidates are selected, are candidates with alot of power and influence already. 2 Bushs, 2 Clintons etc.. Believe one of JF Kennedys relatives is also quite high up in the democrats now too? Trump isn't a rag to riches story. Trump is a wealthy man born into wealth and privilege. He somehow is seen as "man of the people" but still he doesn't ever target the rich and wealthy. How does a man of the people think it's fair for people like Musk to have the billions they have that they could never spend while so many people are in poverty. I expect the man of the people to stand up to the wealthy tax dodgers. Trump doesn't and Trump has beneffited alot himself from dodgy taxes throughout his life. Having Trump on side as a supporter I don't see as a positive, I see it as an example of the very wealthy supporting him because they feel safe if Trump gets elected. In my opinion people like Musk are the people we should be targeting. 

[wagsastokie]

Aug 28, 2023 5:13:20 GMT satoshi said:

How many that visited Epsteins Island have been charged?

A big fat zero

The USA is the most corrupt country on earth

Apparently Biden got 80 million votes 😁

The land of the free
Providing you can pay

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2023 1:31:37 GMT wannabee said:

Aug 28, 2023 0:06:24 GMT @cvillestokie said:

My point? He was getting legal advice to make plea deals. So, I assume that people with good knowledge of the case are a little concerned about his practices. Though, it is nice that $100k of theft is only a misdemeanor.

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/08/19/politics/hunter-biden-plea-deal-collapse/index.html

It’s great when rich people can steal from the government and unlawfully purchase guns. We should promote more of the same behaviour.



Take a normal person, they aren’t getting a nice plea deal, are they? A black man spends years behind bars. Hunter gets to make more mistakes. If justice was blind, he should go to prison.

He is a Citizen like anyone else why shouldn't he consult council? If you are arguing generically that Rich people in US have better access to better Legal Advice that's a whole different equation 

It's the US Penal Code that deem late payment of taxes is a misdemeanour, if you disagree take it up with your Congressman 

There is no proof he purchased a Gun illegally, he has not been tried and the 2nd Amendment was upheld in the case I referenced

I'm not here to defend the Laws of the US just to correct the hysterical hyperbole by  ignoramuses (not you) that Hunter has committed some heinous crimes for which he should be sent to Gaol.

The elevation of Trump appointed David Weiss to Special Council after he has investigated Hunter for the last 5 years and which at the end the best he could come up with was pleading guilty to a misdemeanour and rehabilitation is interesting in so far as it will prolong the investigation further and may allow further fishing expeditions. Do you think after 5 years Weiss is going to come up with something new? Trump has already said he regrets appointing Weiss, presumably because he couldn't come up with any evidence to convict a bit like Republican Brad Reffensberger in Georgia couldn't "find" 11,780 Votes when requested by Trump

I welcome people being prosecuted if they have committed crimes not innuendo without substance 

So, the first point was a general statement, yes. If he wasn’t a wealthy son of an important man, he wouldn’t have gotten the legal advice to keep him out of prison. He’d have got an overburdened public defender. The gun charge was a felony. Putting the two together with the history of drug abuse: the average person goes to prison. Hunter gets to stay out (for now). Why? Because, he’s white, rich and powerful. It’s not often that a gun can just be casually taken from an actively using crack addict and nothing happens as long as said crack addict promises never to do it again.

I do agree, there isn’t any tangible evidence for the other “dealings” at present. I imagine that if anything was there, they wouldn’t have taken so long to bring it to light. It seems that they went for guns and taxes because that’s all they could go for. I personally still believe that, in a fair world, he’d be going to prison.

Overall, the rich and famous get to play a completely different game. It must be nice.

[st3mark]

Aug 28, 2023 9:39:19 GMT Gawa said:

Aug 26, 2023 9:29:49 GMT st3mark said:

Sorry for late reply, I went out last night.

1. No not just because he used the word peaceful, the entire message that he put out had no suggestion that anyone should be anything other than law abiding.

2. I do believe the election was stolen. Trump had more votes than anyone had ever had in American history. Yet Biden, a man who can't speak also managed to get more votes than anyone in Americas history, with hundreds of thousands of votes appearing overnight.

Epstein was killed because Clinton and Obama had visited the island. If Trumps name was on that list it would have been released. They would have been so excited to get it out there. Anyone who knows anything about the Clinton's disappears.

legacyfirearmsco.com/news/the-list-of-clinton-associates-who-died-mysteriously-check-it-out/

Obamas chef died in an accident recently too, and guess what so did Clinton's. What are the odds?

3. You may have noticed that all celebrities and mainstream media turned on twitter and all celebrities started threads accounts. It's all because musk exposed some truths and he refuses to be controlled or bought. I'm not particularly a fan of musk, but I admire his transparency. Read through the twitter files and at the very least you'll wonder why it didn't make the news.

4. Largely in agreement with each other here - until you mention Trump. The media loved him until he dared to try and drain the swamp. Nobody called him a racist until the media said it a thousand times. The zombies just believe that he is a racist, regardless of the fact that he had the most diverse cabinet in United States history at the time.

Everything he said about covid they portrayed as lies and racist. Now 4 years later they are confirming that it did come from where trump said. Only the same media that said it was racist for him to say it now don't have a problem with it being said by the current regime.

During the civil sexual case against him they found him guilty of one crime against a woman they never even successfully proved that he had ever met. They had the 'victim' on the news after and she said 'rape is sexy' before they cut the interview.

5. You're right about trust/mistrust of media, I don't just go about life trusting sources from trump supporters. I was raised very left wing. I look at both sides and make my own mind up. I have my eyes open enough to know that each one of trumps indictments has come a day after a Biden family scandal was happening in the courts. Imagine the coincidence. The reason I mistrust the media around trump is because I listen to what I hear him say with my own ears and not what the news tells me that he said. The reason I won't believe that he incited violence is because I saw the tweet with my own eyes and therefore believe my own eyes over the media.

Hope I responded to the majority of what you said, your post was pretty long.

It's great to see other viewpoints and feel free to respond, I'll be concentrating on football from now until the weekend is over but I'm sure I'll be back for more trump soon. I'm as fascinated with him as the rest of the world is.

Also, when you mentioned previously about looking up vivek. Look up kari lake too, she has huge political potential in my opinion.

Can I just begin this by retiring that I don't think any of our opinions are likely to change loads but I still think it's interesting to talk about. I also think alot of parallels can be found between Trump and Corbyn in the sense that both have a much deeper reach than the average president/prime minister and supporters of both believe that the MSM have unfairly reported on them. As a corbyn supporter I do think we have things in common with some Trump supporters. Although as I'm not a Trump fan I'm obviously challenging some of your stuff below, but I still respect and appreciate your views even if we are on opposite sides of the political divide.  

1. The fact of the matter still stands though that it was his tweet which invoked thousands of people to descend on the capital building. Was there not a black kid recently arreseted in New York because he peacefully suggested his followers descend on an area in Manhatten to get like a 100 odd free gaming consoles. He was arrested on the spot due to the violence which occurred from it despite advertising it as a peaceful event. I don't see Trump supporters fighting his case. Many probably think he deserves to be arrested. 

2. "More votes than anyone in history" is something I expect though given the population increase over time. America's population is the highest it has ever been in history. Looking through past elections:

2000 total votes - 101 million
2004 total votes - 120 million
2008 total votes - 130 million
2020 total votes - 155 million (Total population - 335 million so still less than half turnout)

So generally speaking, providing voter turnout is high, there will be alot of votes. And the voter turnout for the 2020 election was higher than it's been anytime in recent history which is to no surprise given the rise of Trump and his followers. 

So if Epsteins death which occurred under 24 hour watch during Trumps presidency is due to other people. What's the point in even getting him in as president? I thought Trump is the saviour of kids yet even with the top job in the land the pedos still disappear under his watch. Is anything Trumps fault? Or is there an excuse for everything. 

Also when you mention the likes of Biden, Clinton, Obama it doesn't really have the same affect. I don't see people who worship the ground these people walk on as if they're the second reincarnation of Jesus Christ. You can think that both Trump and Clinton had a very dodgy relationship with Epstein. 

3. I don't have a twitter account so I didn't really notice anything myself personally. I think you sent these twitter files in the last response earlier? I still need to read them. If you haven't sent the link then please re-send. I don't understand what you mean by Musk refuses to be "controlled or bought" - maybe I need to read these files to understand it. I think a man who has accumulated the wealth which Musk has will always have a motive - and cosying up to a potential president who has no interest in tackling inequality or taxing the wealthiest in society or clamping down on their tax evasion - for Musk this probably feels like a good person to get close to. Especially considering those to the left are the ones which feel people like Musk should be paying alot more tax than he is.

4. When you say "drain the swamp", what does that actually mean. And I'm not being funny or anything with you here but what does that refer to? I think you raise a very good point though in relation to his cabinet and it being the most diverse in American history. I presume that's correct and it is something which certainly didn't get reported much. 

I think the early research from alot of countries suggested the virus originated in Wuhan. That wasn't some original piece of investigative journalism which came from Trump. What people mocked more where the "China Virus" quotes as well as suggestions of injecting yourself with bleach to fight it. I see mocking that no different to mocking the videos of sleepy joe speaking bollocks.

I haven't looked into the specifics of each and every case. I believe one which recently surfaced was based on events which occurred a number of years back, and when going up against a man with the power of Trump, it was unlikely to get a conviction. What concerns me more is the volume of cases which have been raised against Trump throughout his career and how many of those may have been paid off like Stormy too. We can talk all day about the media "turning on him" and try to make out that people are making allegations to damage his character. What about the tens of allegations which were raised long before he ever contested his presidency. As well as his very close relationship to Epstein in the 90s too. I don't feel any of that gets questioned by the average Trump supporter because unless it's coming from a Trump source it's just that "MSM are out to get Trump everything is false". Have MSM been out to get Trump from the day he was born? I don't think so. 

5. I think that's a fair point and I think that it's important to highlight as well that what people say can be interpreted in many different ways. I agree that listening to the primary source, Trump in this case, is a better way to make an opinion and judgement rather than reading some journalists interpretation of what Trump said. And I'm particularly guilty of never really watching much of Trumps speeches in full in recent years and instead just reading/watching snippets posted online which could be taken out of context. 

6. I do think though that social media has had alot of influence on peoples views on Trump. For instance I have an Aunt and Uncle in their 60s who aren't very good with technology and they don't have kids either. They've never really had any deep interest in politics for as long as I have known them. Around 3 years ago my Auntie got facebook for the first time and she obviously doesn't understand how to setup privacy settings so many of the things she comments on appear on my news feed. The only way she could have possibly have became so Trump obsessed is either through Facebook or Youtube as these are the only 2 things she uses the internet for aside from printing off random sewing patterns. But I don't think Trump supporters generally recognise the influence which the likes of facebook has had in pushing his message and agenda. The focus is very much on "MSM bad" and MSM against trump but little recognition towards how social media has been very bias to Trumps advantage (in my opinion). Now of course you could just claim this is MSM going against Trump as there is a MSM article here which references the influence facebook had - www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51034641 but I've witnessed it with my own eyes in seeing people with no political interest at all suddenly become super fans of a presidential candidate in a foreign country. 

7. Like I said previously in another post. I personally think the American politics system is rigged to ensure that whichever candidates are selected, are candidates with alot of power and influence already. 2 Bushs, 2 Clintons etc.. Believe one of JF Kennedys relatives is also quite high up in the democrats now too? Trump isn't a rag to riches story. Trump is a wealthy man born into wealth and privilege. He somehow is seen as "man of the people" but still he doesn't ever target the rich and wealthy. How does a man of the people think it's fair for people like Musk to have the billions they have that they could never spend while so many people are in poverty. I expect the man of the people to stand up to the wealthy tax dodgers. Trump doesn't and Trump has beneffited alot himself from dodgy taxes throughout his life. Having Trump on side as a supporter I don't see as a positive, I see it as an example of the very wealthy supporting him because they feel safe if Trump gets elected. In my opinion people like Musk are the people we should be targeting. 

1. I wouldn't generalise all trump supporters as having the same opinion on whether the games console kid should be arrested or not. Like any group of people some will think he should and some will think he shouldn't.

The differences between those examples are huge. One was about a gaming console and one was about political protest which Americans have a right to do.

Also there were a large number of fbi and cia agents within the crowd that 'stormed the capitol'. On the hours and hours worth of footage released years later though it showed that they opened the doors and let them in. The fbi and mainstream media also claimed that a police officer was killed at a specific time yet on the footage he was still visibly walking around hours later. One of the more high profile arrests that day for storming the building showed him being invited in and getting a tour of the premises. The two incidents aren't comparable for me.

2. I also expect record numbers of votes to increase as population increases. I don't expect that record to be broken twice on the same night and I don't expect the votes to appear so suspiciously. I also don't expect that many people to vote for someone who can't speak or walk up or down steps.

The security of inmates can be compromised regardless of who is in charge of the country. And sex offenders will sadly always exist. You ask is anything trumps fault, of course it can be he's a human being like anyone else. My viewpoint on trump isn't that he's perfect, I just believe he is targeted.

I wouldn't worship the ground anyone walks on but I think people are going crazy for him because modern times and cancel culture have prevented so many people from having a voice that they just admire his courage to say what he thinks. He's the punk rocker of world politics. Love him or hate him he has fans all over the world which I agree is sometimes similar to worship and unusual in politics.

It would be possible for me to think that both trump and Biden had a dodgy relationship with Epstein but Trump has repeatedly called for the epstein list to be made public. Yet Biden never does, I believe this is because Biden is on the list and so are his friends and donors.

3. It's a valid theory to think that Musk would see a greater personal benefit to himself tax wise etc from having Trump in office and one I considered myself. But he has lost so much money on twitter since he began exposing the truth that it would be a risk not worth taking. And lets face it Biden hasn't done anything to make anybody less rich other than the poor. Like Trump said to Hillary, he knows all the tax loopholes and he knows her and all her colleagues and donors use the same ones.

Musk said recently that if he has a choice between being rich and being told what he can and can't say then he picks poor every time.

Definitely read the files, I think Matt Taibi did most of the work on them. Nobody had ever heard of him before but the media hate him now as well.

4. Drain the swamp refers to the connection of the Hollywood elite, the political elite, the wealthy elite, the criminal elite and the fbi.

www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/08/14/former-fbi-agent-confirms-biden-team-tipped-off-about-hunter-probe/amp/

The above is just an example so you could read about the case but basically clinton/biden/Obama and anyone close to them are untouchable. The fbi aren't a law enforment agency anymore, they are a political tool. That's from a left wing media outlet. Google searches make it harder to find how damning the evidence actually was when I watched the testimony. Maybe you will find some.

When Trump announced the Chinese virus theory in this country it was accepted as a possible cause. I'm not claiming he was the first to announce it by the way. But in America the media would not allow that theory to be spread. The same sources are now reporting it. The whole 'Chinese virus' thing is exactly why so many people love him. If they ask Trump why he calls it the Chinese virus he says "because it comes from china" he doesn't back down. People respect that. Sometimes the truth can be offensive. To many people calling a virus that comes from China the Chinese virus is no different that calling a flu that comes from birds bird flu.

All the allegations from times gone by unfortunately are allegations and not proven offences. Holding unproven allegations from decades ago against someone is pointless. Times were different and people change. Trump won't be the same man he was 40 years ago and I'm sure Corbyn doesn't still hold the antisemitic views the evidence suggests he had throughout his career. Times change. People change.

And no the media haven't been out to get Trump since he was born. They loved him when he was a democrat donor.

5. We are in agreement on this. And I feel most peoples hatred (not suggesting you hate him) of him comes from what they see on the news.

6. Social media is all controlled by Democrats up until the point Musk bought twitter.

Trump has a huge presence on social media and due to his worldwide support people try frantically to spread the positives about him that the media try to hide.

The major platforms even banned him. He was that disadvantaged on social media that he had to start his own.

In the twitter files that I bang on about it showed that twitter accepted almost all democratic requests to block, delete or hide posts and accounts and rejected almost all of the requests from republicans. This was actual proof of election interference that again msm refused to report. The fbi were also involved in the emails.

You're bang on that people without interest in politics are now huge fans and that happens both ways. Social media full stop is a brainwashing contest. Politics are now everywhere. I used to watch football to get away from politics; now before the game there's two captains shaking hands wearing politically influential armbands, the players then take the knee for political purposes, the goalscorer lifts his shirt to show a political message, the star player does a video to condemn anything the fans did that doesnt match up witn the views of sky sports, the clubs can't have betting logos on the kids shirts - not saying those particular issues are a problem for me the point im makkng is politics are everywhere we look. Media is the reason.

7. Trump is a man of the people. But not in the 1980s Labour way. He's rich and he's smart and he's a business man. He doesn't pretend that he's not playing the game, but his opponents do. That's what people love. He doesn't want to give his own money away but he does make the average household better off. He did serve his term for 1 dollar a year salary though but I'm not stupid, I know he will have made money in other ways as a result of his position.



The above video makes me laugh. But to me it captures why people love him. He's honest about what goes on. That's why the democrats hate him - they can convince uneducated people that they intend on helping them whilst really they are getting rich. Trump tells them what he's doing but actually improves their lives.

He is privileged. I don't hate privileged people though. All I care about is that the most capable people get the positions. Whether they are black, white, rich, poor, male, female etc etc.

[Gawa]

Will try to reply when I can again mate.

[slippyblunger]

Aug 28, 2023 11:32:00 GMT st3mark said:

Aug 28, 2023 9:39:19 GMT Gawa said:

Can I just begin this by retiring that I don't think any of our opinions are likely to change loads but I still think it's interesting to talk about. I also think alot of parallels can be found between Trump and Corbyn in the sense that both have a much deeper reach than the average president/prime minister and supporters of both believe that the MSM have unfairly reported on them. As a corbyn supporter I do think we have things in common with some Trump supporters. Although as I'm not a Trump fan I'm obviously challenging some of your stuff below, but I still respect and appreciate your views even if we are on opposite sides of the political divide.  

1. The fact of the matter still stands though that it was his tweet which invoked thousands of people to descend on the capital building. Was there not a black kid recently arreseted in New York because he peacefully suggested his followers descend on an area in Manhatten to get like a 100 odd free gaming consoles. He was arrested on the spot due to the violence which occurred from it despite advertising it as a peaceful event. I don't see Trump supporters fighting his case. Many probably think he deserves to be arrested. 

2. "More votes than anyone in history" is something I expect though given the population increase over time. America's population is the highest it has ever been in history. Looking through past elections:

2000 total votes - 101 million
2004 total votes - 120 million
2008 total votes - 130 million
2020 total votes - 155 million (Total population - 335 million so still less than half turnout)

So generally speaking, providing voter turnout is high, there will be alot of votes. And the voter turnout for the 2020 election was higher than it's been anytime in recent history which is to no surprise given the rise of Trump and his followers. 

So if Epsteins death which occurred under 24 hour watch during Trumps presidency is due to other people. What's the point in even getting him in as president? I thought Trump is the saviour of kids yet even with the top job in the land the pedos still disappear under his watch. Is anything Trumps fault? Or is there an excuse for everything. 

Also when you mention the likes of Biden, Clinton, Obama it doesn't really have the same affect. I don't see people who worship the ground these people walk on as if they're the second reincarnation of Jesus Christ. You can think that both Trump and Clinton had a very dodgy relationship with Epstein. 

3. I don't have a twitter account so I didn't really notice anything myself personally. I think you sent these twitter files in the last response earlier? I still need to read them. If you haven't sent the link then please re-send. I don't understand what you mean by Musk refuses to be "controlled or bought" - maybe I need to read these files to understand it. I think a man who has accumulated the wealth which Musk has will always have a motive - and cosying up to a potential president who has no interest in tackling inequality or taxing the wealthiest in society or clamping down on their tax evasion - for Musk this probably feels like a good person to get close to. Especially considering those to the left are the ones which feel people like Musk should be paying alot more tax than he is.

4. When you say "drain the swamp", what does that actually mean. And I'm not being funny or anything with you here but what does that refer to? I think you raise a very good point though in relation to his cabinet and it being the most diverse in American history. I presume that's correct and it is something which certainly didn't get reported much. 

I think the early research from alot of countries suggested the virus originated in Wuhan. That wasn't some original piece of investigative journalism which came from Trump. What people mocked more where the "China Virus" quotes as well as suggestions of injecting yourself with bleach to fight it. I see mocking that no different to mocking the videos of sleepy joe speaking bollocks.

I haven't looked into the specifics of each and every case. I believe one which recently surfaced was based on events which occurred a number of years back, and when going up against a man with the power of Trump, it was unlikely to get a conviction. What concerns me more is the volume of cases which have been raised against Trump throughout his career and how many of those may have been paid off like Stormy too. We can talk all day about the media "turning on him" and try to make out that people are making allegations to damage his character. What about the tens of allegations which were raised long before he ever contested his presidency. As well as his very close relationship to Epstein in the 90s too. I don't feel any of that gets questioned by the average Trump supporter because unless it's coming from a Trump source it's just that "MSM are out to get Trump everything is false". Have MSM been out to get Trump from the day he was born? I don't think so. 

5. I think that's a fair point and I think that it's important to highlight as well that what people say can be interpreted in many different ways. I agree that listening to the primary source, Trump in this case, is a better way to make an opinion and judgement rather than reading some journalists interpretation of what Trump said. And I'm particularly guilty of never really watching much of Trumps speeches in full in recent years and instead just reading/watching snippets posted online which could be taken out of context. 

6. I do think though that social media has had alot of influence on peoples views on Trump. For instance I have an Aunt and Uncle in their 60s who aren't very good with technology and they don't have kids either. They've never really had any deep interest in politics for as long as I have known them. Around 3 years ago my Auntie got facebook for the first time and she obviously doesn't understand how to setup privacy settings so many of the things she comments on appear on my news feed. The only way she could have possibly have became so Trump obsessed is either through Facebook or Youtube as these are the only 2 things she uses the internet for aside from printing off random sewing patterns. But I don't think Trump supporters generally recognise the influence which the likes of facebook has had in pushing his message and agenda. The focus is very much on "MSM bad" and MSM against trump but little recognition towards how social media has been very bias to Trumps advantage (in my opinion). Now of course you could just claim this is MSM going against Trump as there is a MSM article here which references the influence facebook had - www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51034641 but I've witnessed it with my own eyes in seeing people with no political interest at all suddenly become super fans of a presidential candidate in a foreign country. 

7. Like I said previously in another post. I personally think the American politics system is rigged to ensure that whichever candidates are selected, are candidates with alot of power and influence already. 2 Bushs, 2 Clintons etc.. Believe one of JF Kennedys relatives is also quite high up in the democrats now too? Trump isn't a rag to riches story. Trump is a wealthy man born into wealth and privilege. He somehow is seen as "man of the people" but still he doesn't ever target the rich and wealthy. How does a man of the people think it's fair for people like Musk to have the billions they have that they could never spend while so many people are in poverty. I expect the man of the people to stand up to the wealthy tax dodgers. Trump doesn't and Trump has beneffited alot himself from dodgy taxes throughout his life. Having Trump on side as a supporter I don't see as a positive, I see it as an example of the very wealthy supporting him because they feel safe if Trump gets elected. In my opinion people like Musk are the people we should be targeting. 

1. I wouldn't generalise all trump supporters as having the same opinion on whether the games console kid should be arrested or not. Like any group of people some will think he should and some will think he shouldn't.

The differences between those examples are huge. One was about a gaming console and one was about political protest which Americans have a right to do.

Also there were a large number of fbi and cia agents within the crowd that 'stormed the capitol'. On the hours and hours worth of footage released years later though it showed that they opened the doors and let them in. The fbi and mainstream media also claimed that a police officer was killed at a specific time yet on the footage he was still visibly walking around hours later. One of the more high profile arrests that day for storming the building showed him being invited in and getting a tour of the premises. The two incidents aren't comparable for me.

2. I also expect record numbers of votes to increase as population increases. I don't expect that record to be broken twice on the same night and I don't expect the votes to appear so suspiciously. I also don't expect that many people to vote for someone who can't speak or walk up or down steps.

The security of inmates can be compromised regardless of who is in charge of the country. And sex offenders will sadly always exist. You ask is anything trumps fault, of course it can be he's a human being like anyone else. My viewpoint on trump isn't that he's perfect, I just believe he is targeted.

I wouldn't worship the ground anyone walks on but I think people are going crazy for him because modern times and cancel culture have prevented so many people from having a voice that they just admire his courage to say what he thinks. He's the punk rocker of world politics. Love him or hate him he has fans all over the world which I agree is sometimes similar to worship and unusual in politics.

It would be possible for me to think that both trump and Biden had a dodgy relationship with Epstein but Trump has repeatedly called for the epstein list to be made public. Yet Biden never does, I believe this is because Biden is on the list and so are his friends and donors.

3. It's a valid theory to think that Musk would see a greater personal benefit to himself tax wise etc from having Trump in office and one I considered myself. But he has lost so much money on twitter since he began exposing the truth that it would be a risk not worth taking. And lets face it Biden hasn't done anything to make anybody less rich other than the poor. Like Trump said to Hillary, he knows all the tax loopholes and he knows her and all her colleagues and donors use the same ones.

Musk said recently that if he has a choice between being rich and being told what he can and can't say then he picks poor every time.

Definitely read the files, I think Matt Taibi did most of the work on them. Nobody had ever heard of him before but the media hate him now as well.

4. Drain the swamp refers to the connection of the Hollywood elite, the political elite, the wealthy elite, the criminal elite and the fbi.

www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/08/14/former-fbi-agent-confirms-biden-team-tipped-off-about-hunter-probe/amp/

The above is just an example so you could read about the case but basically clinton/biden/Obama and anyone close to them are untouchable. The fbi aren't a law enforment agency anymore, they are a political tool. That's from a left wing media outlet. Google searches make it harder to find how damning the evidence actually was when I watched the testimony. Maybe you will find some.

When Trump announced the Chinese virus theory in this country it was accepted as a possible cause. I'm not claiming he was the first to announce it by the way. But in America the media would not allow that theory to be spread. The same sources are now reporting it. The whole 'Chinese virus' thing is exactly why so many people love him. If they ask Trump why he calls it the Chinese virus he says "because it comes from china" he doesn't back down. People respect that. Sometimes the truth can be offensive. To many people calling a virus that comes from China the Chinese virus is no different that calling a flu that comes from birds bird flu.

All the allegations from times gone by unfortunately are allegations and not proven offences. Holding unproven allegations from decades ago against someone is pointless. Times were different and people change. Trump won't be the same man he was 40 years ago and I'm sure Corbyn doesn't still hold the antisemitic views the evidence suggests he had throughout his career. Times change. People change.

And no the media haven't been out to get Trump since he was born. They loved him when he was a democrat donor.

5. We are in agreement on this. And I feel most peoples hatred (not suggesting you hate him) of him comes from what they see on the news.

6. Social media is all controlled by Democrats up until the point Musk bought twitter.

Trump has a huge presence on social media and due to his worldwide support people try frantically to spread the positives about him that the media try to hide.

The major platforms even banned him. He was that disadvantaged on social media that he had to start his own.

In the twitter files that I bang on about it showed that twitter accepted almost all democratic requests to block, delete or hide posts and accounts and rejected almost all of the requests from republicans. This was actual proof of election interference that again msm refused to report. The fbi were also involved in the emails.

You're bang on that people without interest in politics are now huge fans and that happens both ways. Social media full stop is a brainwashing contest. Politics are now everywhere. I used to watch football to get away from politics; now before the game there's two captains shaking hands wearing politically influential armbands, the players then take the knee for political purposes, the goalscorer lifts his shirt to show a political message, the star player does a video to condemn anything the fans did that doesnt match up witn the views of sky sports, the clubs can't have betting logos on the kids shirts - not saying those particular issues are a problem for me the point im makkng is politics are everywhere we look. Media is the reason.

7. Trump is a man of the people. But not in the 1980s Labour way. He's rich and he's smart and he's a business man. He doesn't pretend that he's not playing the game, but his opponents do. That's what people love. He doesn't want to give his own money away but he does make the average household better off. He did serve his term for 1 dollar a year salary though but I'm not stupid, I know he will have made money in other ways as a result of his position.



The above video makes me laugh. But to me it captures why people love him. He's honest about what goes on. That's why the democrats hate him - they can convince uneducated people that they intend on helping them whilst really they are getting rich. Trump tells them what he's doing but actually improves their lives.

He is privileged. I don't hate privileged people though. All I care about is that the most capable people get the positions. Whether they are black, white, rich, poor, male, female etc etc.

Excellent post. 👏

[Gawa]

Aug 28, 2023 12:38:10 GMT slippyblunger said:

Aug 28, 2023 11:32:00 GMT st3mark said:

1. I wouldn't generalise all trump supporters as having the same opinion on whether the games console kid should be arrested or not. Like any group of people some will think he should and some will think he shouldn't.

The differences between those examples are huge. One was about a gaming console and one was about political protest which Americans have a right to do.

Also there were a large number of fbi and cia agents within the crowd that 'stormed the capitol'. On the hours and hours worth of footage released years later though it showed that they opened the doors and let them in. The fbi and mainstream media also claimed that a police officer was killed at a specific time yet on the footage he was still visibly walking around hours later. One of the more high profile arrests that day for storming the building showed him being invited in and getting a tour of the premises. The two incidents aren't comparable for me.

2. I also expect record numbers of votes to increase as population increases. I don't expect that record to be broken twice on the same night and I don't expect the votes to appear so suspiciously. I also don't expect that many people to vote for someone who can't speak or walk up or down steps.

The security of inmates can be compromised regardless of who is in charge of the country. And sex offenders will sadly always exist. You ask is anything trumps fault, of course it can be he's a human being like anyone else. My viewpoint on trump isn't that he's perfect, I just believe he is targeted.

I wouldn't worship the ground anyone walks on but I think people are going crazy for him because modern times and cancel culture have prevented so many people from having a voice that they just admire his courage to say what he thinks. He's the punk rocker of world politics. Love him or hate him he has fans all over the world which I agree is sometimes similar to worship and unusual in politics.

It would be possible for me to think that both trump and Biden had a dodgy relationship with Epstein but Trump has repeatedly called for the epstein list to be made public. Yet Biden never does, I believe this is because Biden is on the list and so are his friends and donors.

3. It's a valid theory to think that Musk would see a greater personal benefit to himself tax wise etc from having Trump in office and one I considered myself. But he has lost so much money on twitter since he began exposing the truth that it would be a risk not worth taking. And lets face it Biden hasn't done anything to make anybody less rich other than the poor. Like Trump said to Hillary, he knows all the tax loopholes and he knows her and all her colleagues and donors use the same ones.

Musk said recently that if he has a choice between being rich and being told what he can and can't say then he picks poor every time.

Definitely read the files, I think Matt Taibi did most of the work on them. Nobody had ever heard of him before but the media hate him now as well.

4. Drain the swamp refers to the connection of the Hollywood elite, the political elite, the wealthy elite, the criminal elite and the fbi.

www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/08/14/former-fbi-agent-confirms-biden-team-tipped-off-about-hunter-probe/amp/

The above is just an example so you could read about the case but basically clinton/biden/Obama and anyone close to them are untouchable. The fbi aren't a law enforment agency anymore, they are a political tool. That's from a left wing media outlet. Google searches make it harder to find how damning the evidence actually was when I watched the testimony. Maybe you will find some.

When Trump announced the Chinese virus theory in this country it was accepted as a possible cause. I'm not claiming he was the first to announce it by the way. But in America the media would not allow that theory to be spread. The same sources are now reporting it. The whole 'Chinese virus' thing is exactly why so many people love him. If they ask Trump why he calls it the Chinese virus he says "because it comes from china" he doesn't back down. People respect that. Sometimes the truth can be offensive. To many people calling a virus that comes from China the Chinese virus is no different that calling a flu that comes from birds bird flu.

All the allegations from times gone by unfortunately are allegations and not proven offences. Holding unproven allegations from decades ago against someone is pointless. Times were different and people change. Trump won't be the same man he was 40 years ago and I'm sure Corbyn doesn't still hold the antisemitic views the evidence suggests he had throughout his career. Times change. People change.

And no the media haven't been out to get Trump since he was born. They loved him when he was a democrat donor.

5. We are in agreement on this. And I feel most peoples hatred (not suggesting you hate him) of him comes from what they see on the news.

6. Social media is all controlled by Democrats up until the point Musk bought twitter.

Trump has a huge presence on social media and due to his worldwide support people try frantically to spread the positives about him that the media try to hide.

The major platforms even banned him. He was that disadvantaged on social media that he had to start his own.

In the twitter files that I bang on about it showed that twitter accepted almost all democratic requests to block, delete or hide posts and accounts and rejected almost all of the requests from republicans. This was actual proof of election interference that again msm refused to report. The fbi were also involved in the emails.

You're bang on that people without interest in politics are now huge fans and that happens both ways. Social media full stop is a brainwashing contest. Politics are now everywhere. I used to watch football to get away from politics; now before the game there's two captains shaking hands wearing politically influential armbands, the players then take the knee for political purposes, the goalscorer lifts his shirt to show a political message, the star player does a video to condemn anything the fans did that doesnt match up witn the views of sky sports, the clubs can't have betting logos on the kids shirts - not saying those particular issues are a problem for me the point im makkng is politics are everywhere we look. Media is the reason.

7. Trump is a man of the people. But not in the 1980s Labour way. He's rich and he's smart and he's a business man. He doesn't pretend that he's not playing the game, but his opponents do. That's what people love. He doesn't want to give his own money away but he does make the average household better off. He did serve his term for 1 dollar a year salary though but I'm not stupid, I know he will have made money in other ways as a result of his position.



The above video makes me laugh. But to me it captures why people love him. He's honest about what goes on. That's why the democrats hate him - they can convince uneducated people that they intend on helping them whilst really they are getting rich. Trump tells them what he's doing but actually improves their lives.

He is privileged. I don't hate privileged people though. All I care about is that the most capable people get the positions. Whether they are black, white, rich, poor, male, female etc etc.

Excellent post. 👏

So was mine you prick 🤣

[slippyblunger]

Aug 28, 2023 9:39:19 GMT Gawa said:

Aug 26, 2023 9:29:49 GMT st3mark said:

Sorry for late reply, I went out last night.

1. No not just because he used the word peaceful, the entire message that he put out had no suggestion that anyone should be anything other than law abiding.

2. I do believe the election was stolen. Trump had more votes than anyone had ever had in American history. Yet Biden, a man who can't speak also managed to get more votes than anyone in Americas history, with hundreds of thousands of votes appearing overnight.

Epstein was killed because Clinton and Obama had visited the island. If Trumps name was on that list it would have been released. They would have been so excited to get it out there. Anyone who knows anything about the Clinton's disappears.

legacyfirearmsco.com/news/the-list-of-clinton-associates-who-died-mysteriously-check-it-out/

Obamas chef died in an accident recently too, and guess what so did Clinton's. What are the odds?

3. You may have noticed that all celebrities and mainstream media turned on twitter and all celebrities started threads accounts. It's all because musk exposed some truths and he refuses to be controlled or bought. I'm not particularly a fan of musk, but I admire his transparency. Read through the twitter files and at the very least you'll wonder why it didn't make the news.

4. Largely in agreement with each other here - until you mention Trump. The media loved him until he dared to try and drain the swamp. Nobody called him a racist until the media said it a thousand times. The zombies just believe that he is a racist, regardless of the fact that he had the most diverse cabinet in United States history at the time.

Everything he said about covid they portrayed as lies and racist. Now 4 years later they are confirming that it did come from where trump said. Only the same media that said it was racist for him to say it now don't have a problem with it being said by the current regime.

During the civil sexual case against him they found him guilty of one crime against a woman they never even successfully proved that he had ever met. They had the 'victim' on the news after and she said 'rape is sexy' before they cut the interview.

5. You're right about trust/mistrust of media, I don't just go about life trusting sources from trump supporters. I was raised very left wing. I look at both sides and make my own mind up. I have my eyes open enough to know that each one of trumps indictments has come a day after a Biden family scandal was happening in the courts. Imagine the coincidence. The reason I mistrust the media around trump is because I listen to what I hear him say with my own ears and not what the news tells me that he said. The reason I won't believe that he incited violence is because I saw the tweet with my own eyes and therefore believe my own eyes over the media.

Hope I responded to the majority of what you said, your post was pretty long.

It's great to see other viewpoints and feel free to respond, I'll be concentrating on football from now until the weekend is over but I'm sure I'll be back for more trump soon. I'm as fascinated with him as the rest of the world is.

Also, when you mentioned previously about looking up vivek. Look up kari lake too, she has huge political potential in my opinion.

Can I just begin this by retiring that I don't think any of our opinions are likely to change loads but I still think it's interesting to talk about. I also think alot of parallels can be found between Trump and Corbyn in the sense that both have a much deeper reach than the average president/prime minister and supporters of both believe that the MSM have unfairly reported on them. As a corbyn supporter I do think we have things in common with some Trump supporters. Although as I'm not a Trump fan I'm obviously challenging some of your stuff below, but I still respect and appreciate your views even if we are on opposite sides of the political divide.  

1. The fact of the matter still stands though that it was his tweet which invoked thousands of people to descend on the capital building. Was there not a black kid recently arreseted in New York because he peacefully suggested his followers descend on an area in Manhatten to get like a 100 odd free gaming consoles. He was arrested on the spot due to the violence which occurred from it despite advertising it as a peaceful event. I don't see Trump supporters fighting his case. Many probably think he deserves to be arrested. 

2. "More votes than anyone in history" is something I expect though given the population increase over time. America's population is the highest it has ever been in history. Looking through past elections:

2000 total votes - 101 million
2004 total votes - 120 million
2008 total votes - 130 million
2020 total votes - 155 million (Total population - 335 million so still less than half turnout)

So generally speaking, providing voter turnout is high, there will be alot of votes. And the voter turnout for the 2020 election was higher than it's been anytime in recent history which is to no surprise given the rise of Trump and his followers. 

So if Epsteins death which occurred under 24 hour watch during Trumps presidency is due to other people. What's the point in even getting him in as president? I thought Trump is the saviour of kids yet even with the top job in the land the pedos still disappear under his watch. Is anything Trumps fault? Or is there an excuse for everything. 

Also when you mention the likes of Biden, Clinton, Obama it doesn't really have the same affect. I don't see people who worship the ground these people walk on as if they're the second reincarnation of Jesus Christ. You can think that both Trump and Clinton had a very dodgy relationship with Epstein. 

3. I don't have a twitter account so I didn't really notice anything myself personally. I think you sent these twitter files in the last response earlier? I still need to read them. If you haven't sent the link then please re-send. I don't understand what you mean by Musk refuses to be "controlled or bought" - maybe I need to read these files to understand it. I think a man who has accumulated the wealth which Musk has will always have a motive - and cosying up to a potential president who has no interest in tackling inequality or taxing the wealthiest in society or clamping down on their tax evasion - for Musk this probably feels like a good person to get close to. Especially considering those to the left are the ones which feel people like Musk should be paying alot more tax than he is.

4. When you say "drain the swamp", what does that actually mean. And I'm not being funny or anything with you here but what does that refer to? I think you raise a very good point though in relation to his cabinet and it being the most diverse in American history. I presume that's correct and it is something which certainly didn't get reported much. 

I think the early research from alot of countries suggested the virus originated in Wuhan. That wasn't some original piece of investigative journalism which came from Trump. What people mocked more where the "China Virus" quotes as well as suggestions of injecting yourself with bleach to fight it. I see mocking that no different to mocking the videos of sleepy joe speaking bollocks.

I haven't looked into the specifics of each and every case. I believe one which recently surfaced was based on events which occurred a number of years back, and when going up against a man with the power of Trump, it was unlikely to get a conviction. What concerns me more is the volume of cases which have been raised against Trump throughout his career and how many of those may have been paid off like Stormy too. We can talk all day about the media "turning on him" and try to make out that people are making allegations to damage his character. What about the tens of allegations which were raised long before he ever contested his presidency. As well as his very close relationship to Epstein in the 90s too. I don't feel any of that gets questioned by the average Trump supporter because unless it's coming from a Trump source it's just that "MSM are out to get Trump everything is false". Have MSM been out to get Trump from the day he was born? I don't think so. 

5. I think that's a fair point and I think that it's important to highlight as well that what people say can be interpreted in many different ways. I agree that listening to the primary source, Trump in this case, is a better way to make an opinion and judgement rather than reading some journalists interpretation of what Trump said. And I'm particularly guilty of never really watching much of Trumps speeches in full in recent years and instead just reading/watching snippets posted online which could be taken out of context. 

6. I do think though that social media has had alot of influence on peoples views on Trump. For instance I have an Aunt and Uncle in their 60s who aren't very good with technology and they don't have kids either. They've never really had any deep interest in politics for as long as I have known them. Around 3 years ago my Auntie got facebook for the first time and she obviously doesn't understand how to setup privacy settings so many of the things she comments on appear on my news feed. The only way she could have possibly have became so Trump obsessed is either through Facebook or Youtube as these are the only 2 things she uses the internet for aside from printing off random sewing patterns. But I don't think Trump supporters generally recognise the influence which the likes of facebook has had in pushing his message and agenda. The focus is very much on "MSM bad" and MSM against trump but little recognition towards how social media has been very bias to Trumps advantage (in my opinion). Now of course you could just claim this is MSM going against Trump as there is a MSM article here which references the influence facebook had - www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51034641 but I've witnessed it with my own eyes in seeing people with no political interest at all suddenly become super fans of a presidential candidate in a foreign country. 

7. Like I said previously in another post. I personally think the American politics system is rigged to ensure that whichever candidates are selected, are candidates with alot of power and influence already. 2 Bushs, 2 Clintons etc.. Believe one of JF Kennedys relatives is also quite high up in the democrats now too? Trump isn't a rag to riches story. Trump is a wealthy man born into wealth and privilege. He somehow is seen as "man of the people" but still he doesn't ever target the rich and wealthy. How does a man of the people think it's fair for people like Musk to have the billions they have that they could never spend while so many people are in poverty. I expect the man of the people to stand up to the wealthy tax dodgers. Trump doesn't and Trump has beneffited alot himself from dodgy taxes throughout his life. Having Trump on side as a supporter I don't see as a positive, I see it as an example of the very wealthy supporting him because they feel safe if Trump gets elected. In my opinion people like Musk are the people we should be targeting. 

Excellent post 👏

😁

[Paul Spencer]

Trump has had a lot of cringe moments but this surely takes the biscuit ...

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2023 23:31:01 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Trump has had a lot of cringe moments but this surely takes the biscuit ...

Honestly, it’s genius. His base will buy it. People on the left may consider buying it as well.

[slippyblunger]

His mug shot is giving him loads of street cred in 'da hood' 😂

[Paul Spencer]

Sept 2, 2023 0:56:41 GMT @cvillestokie said:

Sept 1, 2023 23:31:01 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Trump has had a lot of cringe moments but this surely takes the biscuit ...

Honestly, it’s genius. His base will buy it. People on the left may consider buying it as well.

"Never Surrender" when that is literally what he just did in order for that picture to even exist?

🤣🤣🤣

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2023 10:14:57 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Sept 2, 2023 0:56:41 GMT @cvillestokie said:

Honestly, it’s genius. His base will buy it. People on the left may consider buying it as well.

"Never Surrender" when that is literally what he just did in order for that picture to even exist?

🤣🤣🤣

Yep, he’s a massive hypocrite. However, his base will always find a story to make it seem like he isn’t. Trump is a terrible businessman (I doubt this was his idea) but he definitely knows how to license his image.

[OldStokie]

We must never forget that he's masterful genius for propaganda and manipulating the media and nothing can be ruled out for this madman. To almost everyone outside the US, he's a shameful, manipulative guy and as guilty as hell for creating the insurrection. There are people (rightly) getting 18 years for doing his bidding and he should get the same for instigating their actions. God forbid he wins the next election.

OS.

[slippyblunger]

Sept 2, 2023 12:54:27 GMT OldStokie said:

We must never forget that he's masterful genius for propaganda and manipulating the media and nothing can be ruled out for this madman. To almost everyone outside the US, he's a shameful, manipulative guy and as guilty as hell for creating the insurrection. There are people (rightly) getting 18 years for doing his bidding and he should get the same for instigating their actions. God forbid he wins the next election.

OS.

I think it depends on your ideology and world view and personal biases how you view him.

For me and many others in the US, the UK and around the world he's a legend and exactly what the working class need and exactly what normal people can relate to in an ever increasingly mental world. The fact that the left, MSM and other weirdo sorts hate him just makes him even more likeable. But I suppose that's what the world is, different opinions and different viewpoints.

SB

[Gawa]

Sept 1, 2023 23:31:01 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Trump has had a lot of cringe moments but this surely takes the biscuit ...

If there's one thing I'll give him credit for its that he does have a sense of humour. It's quite funny lol.

[Gawa]

Aug 28, 2023 11:32:00 GMT st3mark said:

Aug 28, 2023 9:39:19 GMT Gawa said:

Can I just begin this by retiring that I don't think any of our opinions are likely to change loads but I still think it's interesting to talk about. I also think alot of parallels can be found between Trump and Corbyn in the sense that both have a much deeper reach than the average president/prime minister and supporters of both believe that the MSM have unfairly reported on them. As a corbyn supporter I do think we have things in common with some Trump supporters. Although as I'm not a Trump fan I'm obviously challenging some of your stuff below, but I still respect and appreciate your views even if we are on opposite sides of the political divide.  

1. The fact of the matter still stands though that it was his tweet which invoked thousands of people to descend on the capital building. Was there not a black kid recently arreseted in New York because he peacefully suggested his followers descend on an area in Manhatten to get like a 100 odd free gaming consoles. He was arrested on the spot due to the violence which occurred from it despite advertising it as a peaceful event. I don't see Trump supporters fighting his case. Many probably think he deserves to be arrested. 

2. "More votes than anyone in history" is something I expect though given the population increase over time. America's population is the highest it has ever been in history. Looking through past elections:

2000 total votes - 101 million
2004 total votes - 120 million
2008 total votes - 130 million
2020 total votes - 155 million (Total population - 335 million so still less than half turnout)

So generally speaking, providing voter turnout is high, there will be alot of votes. And the voter turnout for the 2020 election was higher than it's been anytime in recent history which is to no surprise given the rise of Trump and his followers. 

So if Epsteins death which occurred under 24 hour watch during Trumps presidency is due to other people. What's the point in even getting him in as president? I thought Trump is the saviour of kids yet even with the top job in the land the pedos still disappear under his watch. Is anything Trumps fault? Or is there an excuse for everything. 

Also when you mention the likes of Biden, Clinton, Obama it doesn't really have the same affect. I don't see people who worship the ground these people walk on as if they're the second reincarnation of Jesus Christ. You can think that both Trump and Clinton had a very dodgy relationship with Epstein. 

3. I don't have a twitter account so I didn't really notice anything myself personally. I think you sent these twitter files in the last response earlier? I still need to read them. If you haven't sent the link then please re-send. I don't understand what you mean by Musk refuses to be "controlled or bought" - maybe I need to read these files to understand it. I think a man who has accumulated the wealth which Musk has will always have a motive - and cosying up to a potential president who has no interest in tackling inequality or taxing the wealthiest in society or clamping down on their tax evasion - for Musk this probably feels like a good person to get close to. Especially considering those to the left are the ones which feel people like Musk should be paying alot more tax than he is.

4. When you say "drain the swamp", what does that actually mean. And I'm not being funny or anything with you here but what does that refer to? I think you raise a very good point though in relation to his cabinet and it being the most diverse in American history. I presume that's correct and it is something which certainly didn't get reported much. 

I think the early research from alot of countries suggested the virus originated in Wuhan. That wasn't some original piece of investigative journalism which came from Trump. What people mocked more where the "China Virus" quotes as well as suggestions of injecting yourself with bleach to fight it. I see mocking that no different to mocking the videos of sleepy joe speaking bollocks.

I haven't looked into the specifics of each and every case. I believe one which recently surfaced was based on events which occurred a number of years back, and when going up against a man with the power of Trump, it was unlikely to get a conviction. What concerns me more is the volume of cases which have been raised against Trump throughout his career and how many of those may have been paid off like Stormy too. We can talk all day about the media "turning on him" and try to make out that people are making allegations to damage his character. What about the tens of allegations which were raised long before he ever contested his presidency. As well as his very close relationship to Epstein in the 90s too. I don't feel any of that gets questioned by the average Trump supporter because unless it's coming from a Trump source it's just that "MSM are out to get Trump everything is false". Have MSM been out to get Trump from the day he was born? I don't think so. 

5. I think that's a fair point and I think that it's important to highlight as well that what people say can be interpreted in many different ways. I agree that listening to the primary source, Trump in this case, is a better way to make an opinion and judgement rather than reading some journalists interpretation of what Trump said. And I'm particularly guilty of never really watching much of Trumps speeches in full in recent years and instead just reading/watching snippets posted online which could be taken out of context. 

6. I do think though that social media has had alot of influence on peoples views on Trump. For instance I have an Aunt and Uncle in their 60s who aren't very good with technology and they don't have kids either. They've never really had any deep interest in politics for as long as I have known them. Around 3 years ago my Auntie got facebook for the first time and she obviously doesn't understand how to setup privacy settings so many of the things she comments on appear on my news feed. The only way she could have possibly have became so Trump obsessed is either through Facebook or Youtube as these are the only 2 things she uses the internet for aside from printing off random sewing patterns. But I don't think Trump supporters generally recognise the influence which the likes of facebook has had in pushing his message and agenda. The focus is very much on "MSM bad" and MSM against trump but little recognition towards how social media has been very bias to Trumps advantage (in my opinion). Now of course you could just claim this is MSM going against Trump as there is a MSM article here which references the influence facebook had - www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51034641 but I've witnessed it with my own eyes in seeing people with no political interest at all suddenly become super fans of a presidential candidate in a foreign country. 

7. Like I said previously in another post. I personally think the American politics system is rigged to ensure that whichever candidates are selected, are candidates with alot of power and influence already. 2 Bushs, 2 Clintons etc.. Believe one of JF Kennedys relatives is also quite high up in the democrats now too? Trump isn't a rag to riches story. Trump is a wealthy man born into wealth and privilege. He somehow is seen as "man of the people" but still he doesn't ever target the rich and wealthy. How does a man of the people think it's fair for people like Musk to have the billions they have that they could never spend while so many people are in poverty. I expect the man of the people to stand up to the wealthy tax dodgers. Trump doesn't and Trump has beneffited alot himself from dodgy taxes throughout his life. Having Trump on side as a supporter I don't see as a positive, I see it as an example of the very wealthy supporting him because they feel safe if Trump gets elected. In my opinion people like Musk are the people we should be targeting. 

1. I wouldn't generalise all trump supporters as having the same opinion on whether the games console kid should be arrested or not. Like any group of people some will think he should and some will think he shouldn't.

The differences between those examples are huge. One was about a gaming console and one was about political protest which Americans have a right to do.

Also there were a large number of fbi and cia agents within the crowd that 'stormed the capitol'. On the hours and hours worth of footage released years later though it showed that they opened the doors and let them in. The fbi and mainstream media also claimed that a police officer was killed at a specific time yet on the footage he was still visibly walking around hours later. One of the more high profile arrests that day for storming the building showed him being invited in and getting a tour of the premises. The two incidents aren't comparable for me.

2. I also expect record numbers of votes to increase as population increases. I don't expect that record to be broken twice on the same night and I don't expect the votes to appear so suspiciously. I also don't expect that many people to vote for someone who can't speak or walk up or down steps.

The security of inmates can be compromised regardless of who is in charge of the country. And sex offenders will sadly always exist. You ask is anything trumps fault, of course it can be he's a human being like anyone else. My viewpoint on trump isn't that he's perfect, I just believe he is targeted.

I wouldn't worship the ground anyone walks on but I think people are going crazy for him because modern times and cancel culture have prevented so many people from having a voice that they just admire his courage to say what he thinks. He's the punk rocker of world politics. Love him or hate him he has fans all over the world which I agree is sometimes similar to worship and unusual in politics.

It would be possible for me to think that both trump and Biden had a dodgy relationship with Epstein but Trump has repeatedly called for the epstein list to be made public. Yet Biden never does, I believe this is because Biden is on the list and so are his friends and donors.

3. It's a valid theory to think that Musk would see a greater personal benefit to himself tax wise etc from having Trump in office and one I considered myself. But he has lost so much money on twitter since he began exposing the truth that it would be a risk not worth taking. And lets face it Biden hasn't done anything to make anybody less rich other than the poor. Like Trump said to Hillary, he knows all the tax loopholes and he knows her and all her colleagues and donors use the same ones.

Musk said recently that if he has a choice between being rich and being told what he can and can't say then he picks poor every time.

Definitely read the files, I think Matt Taibi did most of the work on them. Nobody had ever heard of him before but the media hate him now as well.

4. Drain the swamp refers to the connection of the Hollywood elite, the political elite, the wealthy elite, the criminal elite and the fbi.

www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/08/14/former-fbi-agent-confirms-biden-team-tipped-off-about-hunter-probe/amp/

The above is just an example so you could read about the case but basically clinton/biden/Obama and anyone close to them are untouchable. The fbi aren't a law enforment agency anymore, they are a political tool. That's from a left wing media outlet. Google searches make it harder to find how damning the evidence actually was when I watched the testimony. Maybe you will find some.

When Trump announced the Chinese virus theory in this country it was accepted as a possible cause. I'm not claiming he was the first to announce it by the way. But in America the media would not allow that theory to be spread. The same sources are now reporting it. The whole 'Chinese virus' thing is exactly why so many people love him. If they ask Trump why he calls it the Chinese virus he says "because it comes from china" he doesn't back down. People respect that. Sometimes the truth can be offensive. To many people calling a virus that comes from China the Chinese virus is no different that calling a flu that comes from birds bird flu.

All the allegations from times gone by unfortunately are allegations and not proven offences. Holding unproven allegations from decades ago against someone is pointless. Times were different and people change. Trump won't be the same man he was 40 years ago and I'm sure Corbyn doesn't still hold the antisemitic views the evidence suggests he had throughout his career. Times change. People change.

And no the media haven't been out to get Trump since he was born. They loved him when he was a democrat donor.

5. We are in agreement on this. And I feel most peoples hatred (not suggesting you hate him) of him comes from what they see on the news.

6. Social media is all controlled by Democrats up until the point Musk bought twitter.

Trump has a huge presence on social media and due to his worldwide support people try frantically to spread the positives about him that the media try to hide.

The major platforms even banned him. He was that disadvantaged on social media that he had to start his own.

In the twitter files that I bang on about it showed that twitter accepted almost all democratic requests to block, delete or hide posts and accounts and rejected almost all of the requests from republicans. This was actual proof of election interference that again msm refused to report. The fbi were also involved in the emails.

You're bang on that people without interest in politics are now huge fans and that happens both ways. Social media full stop is a brainwashing contest. Politics are now everywhere. I used to watch football to get away from politics; now before the game there's two captains shaking hands wearing politically influential armbands, the players then take the knee for political purposes, the goalscorer lifts his shirt to show a political message, the star player does a video to condemn anything the fans did that doesnt match up witn the views of sky sports, the clubs can't have betting logos on the kids shirts - not saying those particular issues are a problem for me the point im makkng is politics are everywhere we look. Media is the reason.

7. Trump is a man of the people. But not in the 1980s Labour way. He's rich and he's smart and he's a business man. He doesn't pretend that he's not playing the game, but his opponents do. That's what people love. He doesn't want to give his own money away but he does make the average household better off. He did serve his term for 1 dollar a year salary though but I'm not stupid, I know he will have made money in other ways as a result of his position.



The above video makes me laugh. But to me it captures why people love him. He's honest about what goes on. That's why the democrats hate him - they can convince uneducated people that they intend on helping them whilst really they are getting rich. Trump tells them what he's doing but actually improves their lives.

He is privileged. I don't hate privileged people though. All I care about is that the most capable people get the positions. Whether they are black, white, rich, poor, male, female etc etc.

1. It's not about what they think. It's an example of someone who organised a peaceful meeting to his online followers which descended into chaos and he was reprimanded for it. Trump is not above the law despite how much his supporters wish him to be. 

1a. What's your opinion on his tax evasion? 

2. When it's a 2 horse race people generally vote for the candidate they dislike least. I presume many people weren't voting for Biden. They were voting to keep Trump out. 

But surely if Epstein died under Bidens watch we'd all be told how its a cover up by MSM and another example of how the Liberal elite are all pedos protecting one another. And many of his supporters would buy it.

See your focus is who is on this island list. What about his black book which has the clintons, Prince Andrew, Rupert murdoch, Tony Blair, Donald trump, Trumps first wife, Trumps third wife, Trumps daughter. 

Or what about the evidence produced in Maxwells trial which shows Trump on the flight logs of Epsteins jets on 6 different occasions. None of this concern you between Trump and "great guy" Epstein? 

3. Just to clarify I'm not a supporter of Biden and never really have been. So comparisons to Biden don't really mean anything to me. I believe the political system in America is pretty rigged and have little confidence in it. 

 Media control = power. While Musk has likely lost some money from twitter, he isn't going to be dropping out of the top 10 rich list anytime soon. Just like Murdoch and Zuckerburg control large portions of the media. Musk seen twitter as an opportunity for him to do the same. We have heard alot in this thread about how MSM are using propaganda against Trump and the impacts of that. So buying twitter gives Musk a huge slice of MSM and influence which no sum of money can buy.

As for what Musk said - actions speak larger than words. Very easy to say stuff like that when you control a portion of the media and have more money than you could ever need.

4. If the Clintons are untouchable then why in 2016, just before the election, did the FBI publicly announce they were reopening an investigation into Hilary Clintons handling of classified documents? Is this not literally the very same thing they've been investigating Trump over?

It feels like the narrative changes at every corner with Trump. When he was winning elections they were fully legit with no fraud. When the fbi were investigating Hilary Clinton its because she was corrupt. When Prince Andrew was photographed with Epstein its because he was a pedo.

But when any of the above are applied to Trump its just a MSM conspiracy and everyone's out to get him and he's the peoples hero that's going to "drain the swamp". The standards applied when judging Trump are minimal compared the standards applied when judging an opponent.

Like you're now discounting all the many allegations against Trump over the decades too because times change and people change. 
You mention the claims about antisemitism against corbyn through the years. Find me those claims and allegations please, there is no historic claims. The allegations arose because he was close to winning an election. This is what jewish people in his constituency think of him - www.islingtontribune.co.uk/article/the-denunciation-of-jeremy-corbyn-is-wrong

What do you mean by the media loved him when he was a democrat donor? So you're saying from 1987 to 2001 when he was a member of the Republican party, independant party and reform party the media were out to get him? Then from 2001 to 2009 as a democrat the media loved him? Then from 2009 to 2011 as a Republican they disliked him again? But in 2012 when he was affiliated to no party they liked him again?

6. What do you mean by social media is all controlled by Democrats? Is Mark Zucekerbueg a democrat? Many people credit Donald's facebook campaign as being highly influential in him winning the election. Do you think the democrat controlled facebook actually made it harder for him then?

So if MSM is against Trump and if social media is all against Trump. Can we decipher that the media actually have very little influence on peoples opinions?  Because what I'm hearing is every form of media is against Trump but somehow he's still incredibly popular in many corners of the world - with more die hard followers than any politician in recent history.

Why did they not just rig the 2016 election against him in the same way the last one was rigged against him? Why even let him win?

What happens if he wins the next election? Does that mean its a legit win and the election wasn't rigged? It can only be rigged if Donald loses? The fbi is only against Trump when they investigate him but when it's Hunter Biden or Hilary Clinton its legit? When Clinton is on a private jet with Epstein its because he's a pedophile but when it's trump its because its a conspiracy to get Trump? When Trump is alleged of assaulting women decades before he runs for president its because they were all out to get him? But if its Hunter Biden it's legitimate? 

I get the impression that it doesn't really matter what any form of media says. The general verdict is thar if its anything bad about Trump its a conspiracy. But when things are going Trumps way and the fbi or media are saying anything bad about an opponent its all true. 

Completely agree with your last paragraph. A bit off topic again but I believe it's more the corporations which control the world these days rather than the politicians. Amazon, Facebook, twitter, Google, Disney, Fifa, Big oil etc.. have fsr too much control, money and influence and governments bend over for them. Like De Santis with Disney which you said earlier. 

7. You can't be a man of the people and play the system in my opinion. A leader leads by example. 

The video is very good and  raises alot of valid points. But it also highlights that the American presidential election is generally a choice of the lesser of two evils.

The American political system doesn't allow for the most capable to have a chance of election. If it did then we wouldn't be choosing between clintons, bidens or Trumps.

When Trump produces a manifesto to tackle inequality and tax dodging from the wealthy with policies which give to the less fortunate and help them then I'll have more time to listen to how he's the man of the working class. 

But for now he's a narcissist who has regularly changed his political affiliation throughout his career based on what benefits Donald the most, not based on belief or principle. He has a history of multiple allegations of assaults on women, dubious relationships with pedophiles and proudly boasts about playing the system to avoid tax with little promise to fix it or change it, and no evidence in his first term to show he did anything to tackle inequality.

Comparisons to Biden is all well and good but it falls on deaf ears because there are no Biden superman's that think he's Jesus reincarnated to save us all from the swamp. 

[Gawa]

Superfans*

[slippyblunger]

www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-real-victim-russiagate-hoax-wasnt-me-it-was-american-people-opinion-1816466

Trump 2024 🇺🇸

[st3mark]

Sept 2, 2023 15:27:25 GMT Gawa said:

Aug 28, 2023 11:32:00 GMT st3mark said:

1. I wouldn't generalise all trump supporters as having the same opinion on whether the games console kid should be arrested or not. Like any group of people some will think he should and some will think he shouldn't.

The differences between those examples are huge. One was about a gaming console and one was about political protest which Americans have a right to do.

Also there were a large number of fbi and cia agents within the crowd that 'stormed the capitol'. On the hours and hours worth of footage released years later though it showed that they opened the doors and let them in. The fbi and mainstream media also claimed that a police officer was killed at a specific time yet on the footage he was still visibly walking around hours later. One of the more high profile arrests that day for storming the building showed him being invited in and getting a tour of the premises. The two incidents aren't comparable for me.

2. I also expect record numbers of votes to increase as population increases. I don't expect that record to be broken twice on the same night and I don't expect the votes to appear so suspiciously. I also don't expect that many people to vote for someone who can't speak or walk up or down steps.

The security of inmates can be compromised regardless of who is in charge of the country. And sex offenders will sadly always exist. You ask is anything trumps fault, of course it can be he's a human being like anyone else. My viewpoint on trump isn't that he's perfect, I just believe he is targeted.

I wouldn't worship the ground anyone walks on but I think people are going crazy for him because modern times and cancel culture have prevented so many people from having a voice that they just admire his courage to say what he thinks. He's the punk rocker of world politics. Love him or hate him he has fans all over the world which I agree is sometimes similar to worship and unusual in politics.

It would be possible for me to think that both trump and Biden had a dodgy relationship with Epstein but Trump has repeatedly called for the epstein list to be made public. Yet Biden never does, I believe this is because Biden is on the list and so are his friends and donors.

3. It's a valid theory to think that Musk would see a greater personal benefit to himself tax wise etc from having Trump in office and one I considered myself. But he has lost so much money on twitter since he began exposing the truth that it would be a risk not worth taking. And lets face it Biden hasn't done anything to make anybody less rich other than the poor. Like Trump said to Hillary, he knows all the tax loopholes and he knows her and all her colleagues and donors use the same ones.

Musk said recently that if he has a choice between being rich and being told what he can and can't say then he picks poor every time.

Definitely read the files, I think Matt Taibi did most of the work on them. Nobody had ever heard of him before but the media hate him now as well.

4. Drain the swamp refers to the connection of the Hollywood elite, the political elite, the wealthy elite, the criminal elite and the fbi.

www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2023/08/14/former-fbi-agent-confirms-biden-team-tipped-off-about-hunter-probe/amp/

The above is just an example so you could read about the case but basically clinton/biden/Obama and anyone close to them are untouchable. The fbi aren't a law enforment agency anymore, they are a political tool. That's from a left wing media outlet. Google searches make it harder to find how damning the evidence actually was when I watched the testimony. Maybe you will find some.

When Trump announced the Chinese virus theory in this country it was accepted as a possible cause. I'm not claiming he was the first to announce it by the way. But in America the media would not allow that theory to be spread. The same sources are now reporting it. The whole 'Chinese virus' thing is exactly why so many people love him. If they ask Trump why he calls it the Chinese virus he says "because it comes from china" he doesn't back down. People respect that. Sometimes the truth can be offensive. To many people calling a virus that comes from China the Chinese virus is no different that calling a flu that comes from birds bird flu.

All the allegations from times gone by unfortunately are allegations and not proven offences. Holding unproven allegations from decades ago against someone is pointless. Times were different and people change. Trump won't be the same man he was 40 years ago and I'm sure Corbyn doesn't still hold the antisemitic views the evidence suggests he had throughout his career. Times change. People change.

And no the media haven't been out to get Trump since he was born. They loved him when he was a democrat donor.

5. We are in agreement on this. And I feel most peoples hatred (not suggesting you hate him) of him comes from what they see on the news.

6. Social media is all controlled by Democrats up until the point Musk bought twitter.

Trump has a huge presence on social media and due to his worldwide support people try frantically to spread the positives about him that the media try to hide.

The major platforms even banned him. He was that disadvantaged on social media that he had to start his own.

In the twitter files that I bang on about it showed that twitter accepted almost all democratic requests to block, delete or hide posts and accounts and rejected almost all of the requests from republicans. This was actual proof of election interference that again msm refused to report. The fbi were also involved in the emails.

You're bang on that people without interest in politics are now huge fans and that happens both ways. Social media full stop is a brainwashing contest. Politics are now everywhere. I used to watch football to get away from politics; now before the game there's two captains shaking hands wearing politically influential armbands, the players then take the knee for political purposes, the goalscorer lifts his shirt to show a political message, the star player does a video to condemn anything the fans did that doesnt match up witn the views of sky sports, the clubs can't have betting logos on the kids shirts - not saying those particular issues are a problem for me the point im makkng is politics are everywhere we look. Media is the reason.

7. Trump is a man of the people. But not in the 1980s Labour way. He's rich and he's smart and he's a business man. He doesn't pretend that he's not playing the game, but his opponents do. That's what people love. He doesn't want to give his own money away but he does make the average household better off. He did serve his term for 1 dollar a year salary though but I'm not stupid, I know he will have made money in other ways as a result of his position.



The above video makes me laugh. But to me it captures why people love him. He's honest about what goes on. That's why the democrats hate him - they can convince uneducated people that they intend on helping them whilst really they are getting rich. Trump tells them what he's doing but actually improves their lives.

He is privileged. I don't hate privileged people though. All I care about is that the most capable people get the positions. Whether they are black, white, rich, poor, male, female etc etc.

1. It's not about what they think. It's an example of someone who organised a peaceful meeting to his online followers which descended into chaos and he was reprimanded for it. Trump is not above the law despite how much his supporters wish him to be. 

1a. What's your opinion on his tax evasion? 

2. When it's a 2 horse race people generally vote for the candidate they dislike least. I presume many people weren't voting for Biden. They were voting to keep Trump out. 

But surely if Epstein died under Bidens watch we'd all be told how its a cover up by MSM and another example of how the Liberal elite are all pedos protecting one another. And many of his supporters would buy it.

See your focus is who is on this island list. What about his black book which has the clintons, Prince Andrew, Rupert murdoch, Tony Blair, Donald trump, Trumps first wife, Trumps third wife, Trumps daughter. 

Or what about the evidence produced in Maxwells trial which shows Trump on the flight logs of Epsteins jets on 6 different occasions. None of this concern you between Trump and "great guy" Epstein? 

3. Just to clarify I'm not a supporter of Biden and never really have been. So comparisons to Biden don't really mean anything to me. I believe the political system in America is pretty rigged and have little confidence in it. 

 Media control = power. While Musk has likely lost some money from twitter, he isn't going to be dropping out of the top 10 rich list anytime soon. Just like Murdoch and Zuckerburg control large portions of the media. Musk seen twitter as an opportunity for him to do the same. We have heard alot in this thread about how MSM are using propaganda against Trump and the impacts of that. So buying twitter gives Musk a huge slice of MSM and influence which no sum of money can buy.

As for what Musk said - actions speak larger than words. Very easy to say stuff like that when you control a portion of the media and have more money than you could ever need.

4. If the Clintons are untouchable then why in 2016, just before the election, did the FBI publicly announce they were reopening an investigation into Hilary Clintons handling of classified documents? Is this not literally the very same thing they've been investigating Trump over?

It feels like the narrative changes at every corner with Trump. When he was winning elections they were fully legit with no fraud. When the fbi were investigating Hilary Clinton its because she was corrupt. When Prince Andrew was photographed with Epstein its because he was a pedo.

But when any of the above are applied to Trump its just a MSM conspiracy and everyone's out to get him and he's the peoples hero that's going to "drain the swamp". The standards applied when judging Trump are minimal compared the standards applied when judging an opponent.

Like you're now discounting all the many allegations against Trump over the decades too because times change and people change. 
You mention the claims about antisemitism against corbyn through the years. Find me those claims and allegations please, there is no historic claims. The allegations arose because he was close to winning an election. This is what jewish people in his constituency think of him - www.islingtontribune.co.uk/article/the-denunciation-of-jeremy-corbyn-is-wrong

What do you mean by the media loved him when he was a democrat donor? So you're saying from 1987 to 2001 when he was a member of the Republican party, independant party and reform party the media were out to get him? Then from 2001 to 2009 as a democrat the media loved him? Then from 2009 to 2011 as a Republican they disliked him again? But in 2012 when he was affiliated to no party they liked him again?

6. What do you mean by social media is all controlled by Democrats? Is Mark Zucekerbueg a democrat? Many people credit Donald's facebook campaign as being highly influential in him winning the election. Do you think the democrat controlled facebook actually made it harder for him then?

So if MSM is against Trump and if social media is all against Trump. Can we decipher that the media actually have very little influence on peoples opinions?  Because what I'm hearing is every form of media is against Trump but somehow he's still incredibly popular in many corners of the world - with more die hard followers than any politician in recent history.

Why did they not just rig the 2016 election against him in the same way the last one was rigged against him? Why even let him win?

What happens if he wins the next election? Does that mean its a legit win and the election wasn't rigged? It can only be rigged if Donald loses? The fbi is only against Trump when they investigate him but when it's Hunter Biden or Hilary Clinton its legit? When Clinton is on a private jet with Epstein its because he's a pedophile but when it's trump its because its a conspiracy to get Trump? When Trump is alleged of assaulting women decades before he runs for president its because they were all out to get him? But if its Hunter Biden it's legitimate? 

I get the impression that it doesn't really matter what any form of media says. The general verdict is thar if its anything bad about Trump its a conspiracy. But when things are going Trumps way and the fbi or media are saying anything bad about an opponent its all true. 

Completely agree with your last paragraph. A bit off topic again but I believe it's more the corporations which control the world these days rather than the politicians. Amazon, Facebook, twitter, Google, Disney, Fifa, Big oil etc.. have fsr too much control, money and influence and governments bend over for them. Like De Santis with Disney which you said earlier. 

7. You can't be a man of the people and play the system in my opinion. A leader leads by example. 

The video is very good and  raises alot of valid points. But it also highlights that the American presidential election is generally a choice of the lesser of two evils.

The American political system doesn't allow for the most capable to have a chance of election. If it did then we wouldn't be choosing between clintons, bidens or Trumps.

When Trump produces a manifesto to tackle inequality and tax dodging from the wealthy with policies which give to the less fortunate and help them then I'll have more time to listen to how he's the man of the working class. 

But for now he's a narcissist who has regularly changed his political affiliation throughout his career based on what benefits Donald the most, not based on belief or principle. He has a history of multiple allegations of assaults on women, dubious relationships with pedophiles and proudly boasts about playing the system to avoid tax with little promise to fix it or change it, and no evidence in his first term to show he did anything to tackle inequality.

Comparisons to Biden is all well and good but it falls on deaf ears because there are no Biden superman's that think he's Jesus reincarnated to save us all from the swamp. 

Woss not at the match? I'll read it Monday x

[eccythump]

Imagine just for 1 moment he was PM here in the UK...
He would put a stop to the boats in an instant...

[Gawa]

Sept 2, 2023 18:49:21 GMT st3mark said:

Sept 2, 2023 15:27:25 GMT Gawa said:

1. It's not about what they think. It's an example of someone who organised a peaceful meeting to his online followers which descended into chaos and he was reprimanded for it. Trump is not above the law despite how much his supporters wish him to be. 

1a. What's your opinion on his tax evasion? 

2. When it's a 2 horse race people generally vote for the candidate they dislike least. I presume many people weren't voting for Biden. They were voting to keep Trump out. 

But surely if Epstein died under Bidens watch we'd all be told how its a cover up by MSM and another example of how the Liberal elite are all pedos protecting one another. And many of his supporters would buy it.

See your focus is who is on this island list. What about his black book which has the clintons, Prince Andrew, Rupert murdoch, Tony Blair, Donald trump, Trumps first wife, Trumps third wife, Trumps daughter. 

Or what about the evidence produced in Maxwells trial which shows Trump on the flight logs of Epsteins jets on 6 different occasions. None of this concern you between Trump and "great guy" Epstein? 

3. Just to clarify I'm not a supporter of Biden and never really have been. So comparisons to Biden don't really mean anything to me. I believe the political system in America is pretty rigged and have little confidence in it. 

 Media control = power. While Musk has likely lost some money from twitter, he isn't going to be dropping out of the top 10 rich list anytime soon. Just like Murdoch and Zuckerburg control large portions of the media. Musk seen twitter as an opportunity for him to do the same. We have heard alot in this thread about how MSM are using propaganda against Trump and the impacts of that. So buying twitter gives Musk a huge slice of MSM and influence which no sum of money can buy.

As for what Musk said - actions speak larger than words. Very easy to say stuff like that when you control a portion of the media and have more money than you could ever need.

4. If the Clintons are untouchable then why in 2016, just before the election, did the FBI publicly announce they were reopening an investigation into Hilary Clintons handling of classified documents? Is this not literally the very same thing they've been investigating Trump over?

It feels like the narrative changes at every corner with Trump. When he was winning elections they were fully legit with no fraud. When the fbi were investigating Hilary Clinton its because she was corrupt. When Prince Andrew was photographed with Epstein its because he was a pedo.

But when any of the above are applied to Trump its just a MSM conspiracy and everyone's out to get him and he's the peoples hero that's going to "drain the swamp". The standards applied when judging Trump are minimal compared the standards applied when judging an opponent.

Like you're now discounting all the many allegations against Trump over the decades too because times change and people change. 
You mention the claims about antisemitism against corbyn through the years. Find me those claims and allegations please, there is no historic claims. The allegations arose because he was close to winning an election. This is what jewish people in his constituency think of him - www.islingtontribune.co.uk/article/the-denunciation-of-jeremy-corbyn-is-wrong

What do you mean by the media loved him when he was a democrat donor? So you're saying from 1987 to 2001 when he was a member of the Republican party, independant party and reform party the media were out to get him? Then from 2001 to 2009 as a democrat the media loved him? Then from 2009 to 2011 as a Republican they disliked him again? But in 2012 when he was affiliated to no party they liked him again?

6. What do you mean by social media is all controlled by Democrats? Is Mark Zucekerbueg a democrat? Many people credit Donald's facebook campaign as being highly influential in him winning the election. Do you think the democrat controlled facebook actually made it harder for him then?

So if MSM is against Trump and if social media is all against Trump. Can we decipher that the media actually have very little influence on peoples opinions?  Because what I'm hearing is every form of media is against Trump but somehow he's still incredibly popular in many corners of the world - with more die hard followers than any politician in recent history.

Why did they not just rig the 2016 election against him in the same way the last one was rigged against him? Why even let him win?

What happens if he wins the next election? Does that mean its a legit win and the election wasn't rigged? It can only be rigged if Donald loses? The fbi is only against Trump when they investigate him but when it's Hunter Biden or Hilary Clinton its legit? When Clinton is on a private jet with Epstein its because he's a pedophile but when it's trump its because its a conspiracy to get Trump? When Trump is alleged of assaulting women decades before he runs for president its because they were all out to get him? But if its Hunter Biden it's legitimate? 

I get the impression that it doesn't really matter what any form of media says. The general verdict is thar if its anything bad about Trump its a conspiracy. But when things are going Trumps way and the fbi or media are saying anything bad about an opponent its all true. 

Completely agree with your last paragraph. A bit off topic again but I believe it's more the corporations which control the world these days rather than the politicians. Amazon, Facebook, twitter, Google, Disney, Fifa, Big oil etc.. have fsr too much control, money and influence and governments bend over for them. Like De Santis with Disney which you said earlier. 

7. You can't be a man of the people and play the system in my opinion. A leader leads by example. 

The video is very good and  raises alot of valid points. But it also highlights that the American presidential election is generally a choice of the lesser of two evils.

The American political system doesn't allow for the most capable to have a chance of election. If it did then we wouldn't be choosing between clintons, bidens or Trumps.

When Trump produces a manifesto to tackle inequality and tax dodging from the wealthy with policies which give to the less fortunate and help them then I'll have more time to listen to how he's the man of the working class. 

But for now he's a narcissist who has regularly changed his political affiliation throughout his career based on what benefits Donald the most, not based on belief or principle. He has a history of multiple allegations of assaults on women, dubious relationships with pedophiles and proudly boasts about playing the system to avoid tax with little promise to fix it or change it, and no evidence in his first term to show he did anything to tackle inequality.

Comparisons to Biden is all well and good but it falls on deaf ears because there are no Biden superman's that think he's Jesus reincarnated to save us all from the swamp. 

Woss not at the match? I'll read it Monday x

Nah typed this while watching stream then turned it off and went to tesco. Didn't miss much.

[Gawa]

Sept 2, 2023 18:51:30 GMT eccythump said:

Imagine just for 1 moment he was PM here in the UK...
He would put a stop to the boats in an instant...

That's all well and good but it ain't gonna pay for my mortgage, energy bills or food. It's not going to fix the hospital waiting lists, rivers covered in shite or crumbling schools either.

[slippyblunger]

Sept 2, 2023 18:51:30 GMT eccythump said:

Imagine just for 1 moment he was PM here in the UK...
He would put a stop to the boats in an instant...

Absolutely he would, which in turn would ease some of the pressure on the NHS, schools and housing and jobs etc. We could do with having our own swamp drained. Corrupt Tories being sent to wormwood scrubs, corrupt Labourites being sent to broadmore, an end to telling little boys they can be little girls and confusing a generation in the name of tolerance (but really it's nothing but a sinister sexual depravity)

He could then whip the police into shape, no kneeling in front of BLM racist rioters, no twerking at pride events and start coming down hard on peados, rapists and other sex offenders instead of arresting people for 'wrong think'.

"Let's go Brandon" 😂

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2023 19:31:16 GMT Gawa said:

Sept 2, 2023 18:51:30 GMT eccythump said:

Imagine just for 1 moment he was PM here in the UK...
He would put a stop to the boats in an instant...

That's all well and good but it ain't gonna pay for my mortgage, energy bills or food. It's not going to fix the hospital waiting lists, rivers covered in shite or crumbling schools either.

It’s also just not true. He wasn’t able to stop immigration in the US. He tried to “build his wall”, which mostly ended up just renovating existing infrastructure. Mexico did not pay for it.

Opioid overdoses flew up under Trump, so it’s not like his tough on drugs stance was successful.

Mostly though, GDP grew (so what) but the gap between the wealthy and the poor expanded rapidly.

Honestly, who cares about the trans debate, which affects all of 1-2% of an entire population, when the policies Trump implemented saw greater disparity in wealth, investment and most importantly, in health (!) for most of the population?

Great, I could say more things and get away with them under Trump, but I’d live a shorter, poorer life.