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Post by salopstick on Nov 15, 2024 13:39:14 GMT
maybe because working class americans didnt find them selves better off under Biden? I think the issue goes far beyond Biden. US Companies began offshoring low skilled Industrial Assembly type Jobs in the 1970s and these are the type of jobs Trump is promising to bring back, it won't happen. Flipping Burgers or stacking Amazon Boxes for minimum wage without medical benefits doesn't get you very far and immigrants, at least initially, are quite prepared to do these jobs. If you feel a sense of entitlement that you deserve better you look for reasons/people to blame. To be fair the US Class System is based on income levels and Education is the key to where you fit on the ladder. I accept good Education itself is a post code lottery View AttachmentThis is an interesting income study by demographic comparing income dispersion in the 50 years from 1971 to 2020 www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/That does not answer your own question on why working class people voted for Donald Trump or the answer we gave you The fact remains people will vote differently if they feel the status quo is not working for them (or making them rock all over the world) |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 15, 2024 13:43:57 GMT
I expect by the time Trump takes office he will have dispensed with his Secret Service Minders and instead have recruited 10,000 Proud Boys to become his Trumporian Guard. If a Senate vacancy occurs I'm literally backing a Horse to fill the vacancy. A white horse, obviously, for the apocalypse and just because it's white! š Yea we're on a similar thought pattern, I was thinking of Caligula who made his favourite horse Incitatus, a White Stallion, a Roman Consul. People believe it was due to his deteriorating Mental State  |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 15, 2024 13:54:37 GMT
Well knock me down with a feather, didn't see this one coming at all ... š Apparently like most anti Trump news its only half the story. But it's not anti Trump news though is it? That was the whole point of my actual post, this is pro Trump news. Channel 12 is Israel's most popular TV channel and Eli David is one of the most powerful Israel influencers in the world and they're both practically wetting themselves over Trump's appointment and the things he has begun by saying. He literally says at the end of his tweet "January 20th can't come soon enough ..." It's interesting that you interpreted it as anti Trump news though. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 15, 2024 14:04:58 GMT
I'd imagine the likes of JOB and the other political commentators will actually be wanking themselves silly over the election result with a view to publishing another book spouting a out the situation.
I've had a wander around Waterstones and a couple of independent bookstore's this morning and the post election fare is already in for gifting to your psuedo-intellectual relatives , or even your EEB secret Santa.
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Post by wannabee on Nov 15, 2024 14:14:32 GMT
I think the issue goes far beyond Biden. US Companies began offshoring low skilled Industrial Assembly type Jobs in the 1970s and these are the type of jobs Trump is promising to bring back, it won't happen. Flipping Burgers or stacking Amazon Boxes for minimum wage without medical benefits doesn't get you very far and immigrants, at least initially, are quite prepared to do these jobs. If you feel a sense of entitlement that you deserve better you look for reasons/people to blame. To be fair the US Class System is based on income levels and Education is the key to where you fit on the ladder. I accept good Education itself is a post code lottery View AttachmentThis is an interesting income study by demographic comparing income dispersion in the 50 years from 1971 to 2020 www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/That does not answer your own question on why working class people voted for Donald Trump or the answer we gave you The fact remains people will vote differently if they feel the status quo is not working for them (or making them rock all over the world) I didn't actually ask any question, but i was agreeing with your comment that people didn't feel better off under Biden. My point was the increase in low income groups can be traced to offshoring, Globalisation if you will, which began in the 1970s. The perception by people that they were better off under Trump is false and that they will better off in the future is doubtful Yet as he leaves after his one-term tenure, Trump has become the first president since Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression to depart office with fewer jobs in the country than when he entered.
abcnews.go.com/Business/trumps-economic-legacy/story?id=74760051My overarching point, which obviously was unclear, is that unskilled workers in the US won't be better off under any Administration because US is to a large extent a meritocracy and those that have little to offer get left behind. Trump has exploited that disgruntlement in people who really should look inward for their predicament to look outward at immigrants. That's a large Voting Bloc. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 15, 2024 14:18:50 GMT
THIS WILL BACKFIRE ON TRUMP SO BADLY - AND HEREāS WHY:
@realdonaldtrump
said: āMy first week back in the Oval Office, my administration will inform every college president that, if you do not end antisemitic propaganda, they will lose their accreditation and federal taxpayer support.ā
I SHOULDNāT BE THE FIRST ONE TO POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS, BUTā¦
1. Firstly, using the Federal Govt to enforce a completely fake definition of āantisemitismā to close down higher education institutions/deny access to education based on political beliefs - is against the First Amendment of the US Constitution. If I have to point this out, then you need to re-read it ASAP.
2. Secondly, criticism of Israeli actions, Zionist ideology, or Israelās genocide in Palestine, or mass -murder of Lebanese people - is NOT āantisemiticā. And NO Supreme Court justice will back Trump & mediaās fanciful version of reality here (clearly being imposed by Israeli Lobby).
3. Supporting Palestinian human rights, the right to life, liberty and end to a brutal apartheid is NOT āantisemiticā, nor is it āpro-Hamasā or āpro-terrorism.ā Itās time we dispensed with this lie, before itās eventually obliterated by a US High Court judgement anyway. Even your most conservative justice, Clarence Thomas, will send this farce into juris oblivion, where it belongs. (Note to free speech warrior
@elonmusk)
4. By allowing a foreign lobby to enact unconstitutional, dare we say *un-American*, disingenuous authoritarian moves like these - the President is empowering a very intelligent & highly motivated, nonpartisan opposition at home and abroad.
Itās a losing gambit all around.
Trump then added, āWe will not subsidize the creation of terrorist sympathizers and weāre certainly not going to do it on American soil. Next, I will inform every educational institution in our land that, if they permit violence, harassment, or threats against Jewish students, the schools will be held accountable for violations of the civil rights law.ā
Utterly ridiculous, and embarrassing. Understand your office does itself no favors by allowing the Israeli Lobby to write these over-the-top, ill-advised speeches. This kind of half-baked reactionary politics will ultimately hurt you, your movement, and the country for that matter. Itās not even good for Israelis and Jews in America. It will create more animosity and fuel more of what you call āantisemitismā. You are directly fuelling a vicious cycle.
There is no upside, itās 100% in the liability column. You will loseā¦ bigly.
And The Lobby couldnāt care less if you do. They can always buy another.
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 15, 2024 14:33:59 GMT
How does the Israeli government seemingly have influence over every single western government politician? - Doesn't matter what party, left/right etc. it gets unequivocal support regardless of it's actions to such an extent that it actually costs votes. Since when did a politician ever bend over backwards to actively lose votes? - it makes zero sense or are we simply turning a blind eye so that Israel can deal with 'undesirable' countries in the region?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 15, 2024 14:50:38 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 15, 2024 15:14:28 GMT
How does the Israeli government seemingly have influence over every single western government politician? - Doesn't matter what party, left/right etc. it gets unequivocal support regardless of it's actions to such an extent that it actually costs votes. Since when did a politician ever bend over backwards to actively lose votes? - it makes zero sense or are we simply turning a blind eye so that Israel can deal with 'undesirable' countries in the region? I think this is a pretty balanced (no doubt some will disagree) explanation (Trump received $100 million) ... |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 15, 2024 15:16:28 GMT
It s very sensible. But what I donāt understand is why any working class American thinks Donald Trump is going to make them any better off? He is entirely out for himself. But will they blame him when the rich continue to exponentially get richer, and everyone else gets fucked? I agree the democrats should follow lots of the advice in that article. As should most governments across the world. maybe because working class americans didnt find them selves better off under Biden? Or under Trump before Biden. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 15, 2024 15:18:10 GMT
It s very sensible. But what I donāt understand is why any working class American thinks Donald Trump is going to make them any better off? He is entirely out for himself. But will they blame him when the rich continue to exponentially get richer, and everyone else gets fucked? I agree the democrats should follow lots of the advice in that article. As should most governments across the world. Trump promised to bring back manufacturing jobs and reduce taxes, which resonated with many working-class voters who felt left behind by globalization and economic shifts. Put bluntly,Ā Trumpās rhetoric often targeted the frustrations and concerns of working-class Americans, making them feel heard and represented. Biden did none of that. When you factor inĀ Trump's seemingly tough stance on immigration was seen by some as a way to protect American jobs and wages, alongsideĀ disillusionment with the traditional political establishment and the perception of Trump as a disruptive force who could bring change, it wasn't much of a surprise given how devoid of both rhetoric towards the working class (not to mention policy) Harris was. If the rich get richer then it is what is and people may vote Democrat next time assuming there's a valid and decent candidate, as either way Trump only gets 4 more years barring changes the Constitution or an international global conflict in the offing akin to WWII. So the working classes in America are thick enough to believe promises made by Trump. Oh dear. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 15, 2024 15:22:24 GMT
THIS WILL BACKFIRE ON TRUMP SO BADLY - AND HEREāS WHY: @realdonaldtrump said: āMy first week back in the Oval Office, my administration will inform every college president that, if you do not end antisemitic propaganda, they will lose their accreditation and federal taxpayer support.ā I SHOULDNāT BE THE FIRST ONE TO POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS, BUTā¦ 1. Firstly, using the Federal Govt to enforce a completely fake definition of āantisemitismā to close down higher education institutions/deny access to education based on political beliefs - is against the First Amendment of the US Constitution. If I have to point this out, then you need to re-read it ASAP. 2. Secondly, criticism of Israeli actions, Zionist ideology, or Israelās genocide in Palestine, or mass -murder of Lebanese people - is NOT āantisemiticā. And NO Supreme Court justice will back Trump & mediaās fanciful version of reality here (clearly being imposed by Israeli Lobby). 3. Supporting Palestinian human rights, the right to life, liberty and end to a brutal apartheid is NOT āantisemiticā, nor is it āpro-Hamasā or āpro-terrorism.ā Itās time we dispensed with this lie, before itās eventually obliterated by a US High Court judgement anyway. Even your most conservative justice, Clarence Thomas, will send this farce into juris oblivion, where it belongs. (Note to free speech warrior @elonmusk) 4. By allowing a foreign lobby to enact unconstitutional, dare we say *un-American*, disingenuous authoritarian moves like these - the President is empowering a very intelligent & highly motivated, nonpartisan opposition at home and abroad. Itās a losing gambit all around. Trump then added, āWe will not subsidize the creation of terrorist sympathizers and weāre certainly not going to do it on American soil. Next, I will inform every educational institution in our land that, if they permit violence, harassment, or threats against Jewish students, the schools will be held accountable for violations of the civil rights law.ā Utterly ridiculous, and embarrassing. Understand your office does itself no favors by allowing the Israeli Lobby to write these over-the-top, ill-advised speeches. This kind of half-baked reactionary politics will ultimately hurt you, your movement, and the country for that matter. Itās not even good for Israelis and Jews in America. It will create more animosity and fuel more of what you call āantisemitismā. You are directly fuelling a vicious cycle. There is no upside, itās 100% in the liability column. You will loseā¦ bigly. And The Lobby couldnāt care less if you do. They can always buy another. The problem is, Trump will have total power of the White House, the Senate and Congress, plus the Supreme Court is in his pocket. He is above the law and untouchable. He could murder and rape live-streamed on X and get away with it. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 15, 2024 15:25:53 GMT
How does the Israeli government seemingly have influence over every single western government politician? - Doesn't matter what party, left/right etc. it gets unequivocal support regardless of it's actions to such an extent that it actually costs votes. Since when did a politician ever bend over backwards to actively lose votes? - it makes zero sense or are we simply turning a blind eye so that Israel can deal with 'undesirable' countries in the region? Brace yourself. The reason why the Israel lobby is so influential annoys some people, particularly those on the left and hard left, but it's been a reality for a long time. I mean, the US and the UK (as well as other western democracies) both have long-standing historical and political ties with Israel going all the way back to the early 20th century when there was significant support for the establishment of Israel in the two countries in the first place. Add onto that the fact that pro-Israel lobbying groups, such as AIPAC in the US and various organizations in the UK by way of example, have significant political influence as they openly engage in advocacy work, campaign contributions, and public relations efforts to shape foreign policy in favour of Israel. Can't blame them for it, and they are really effective at it. One or two political lobbying groups could learn a thing or two from them. It's also worth remembering that the US and UK and western democracies have strong economic ties with Israel, including trade, technology, and defence cooperation which reinforce political support. The really annoying thing for some people is that, whilst there is significant pro-Palestinian support in both countries, there is nonetheless even more significant and substantial public support for Israel in the UK and US as direct result of shared cultural, religious, and media factors. It's hard to quantify exactly how much pro Israeli support is larger than pro-Palestinian support without specific polling data, but that said it's generally observed that pro-Israel support tends to be more prominent in both countries, especially in the US, where political and public opinion often strongly favours Israel. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 15, 2024 15:26:38 GMT
Trump promised to bring back manufacturing jobs and reduce taxes, which resonated with many working-class voters who felt left behind by globalization and economic shifts. Put bluntly, Trumpās rhetoric often targeted the frustrations and concerns of working-class Americans, making them feel heard and represented. Biden did none of that. When you factor in Trump's seemingly tough stance on immigration was seen by some as a way to protect American jobs and wages, alongside disillusionment with the traditional political establishment and the perception of Trump as a disruptive force who could bring change, it wasn't much of a surprise given how devoid of both rhetoric towards the working class (not to mention policy) Harris was. If the rich get richer then it is what is and people may vote Democrat next time assuming there's a valid and decent candidate, as either way Trump only gets 4 more years barring changes the Constitution or an international global conflict in the offing akin to WWII. So the working classes in America are thick enough to believe promises made by Trump. Oh dear. That's your conclusion mate  |
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Post by stokeson on Nov 15, 2024 15:28:21 GMT
Trump promised to bring back manufacturing jobs and reduce taxes, which resonated with many working-class voters who felt left behind by globalization and economic shifts. Put bluntly,Ā Trumpās rhetoric often targeted the frustrations and concerns of working-class Americans, making them feel heard and represented. Biden did none of that. When you factor inĀ Trump's seemingly tough stance on immigration was seen by some as a way to protect American jobs and wages, alongsideĀ disillusionment with the traditional political establishment and the perception of Trump as a disruptive force who could bring change, it wasn't much of a surprise given how devoid of both rhetoric towards the working class (not to mention policy) Harris was. If the rich get richer then it is what is and people may vote Democrat next time assuming there's a valid and decent candidate, as either way Trump only gets 4 more years barring changes the Constitution or an international global conflict in the offing akin to WWII. So the working classes in America are thick enough to believe promises made by Trump. Oh dear. "No one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American People." HL Mencken. Same could be said here,,,, |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 15, 2024 15:33:52 GMT
So the working classes in America are thick enough to believe promises made by Trump. Oh dear. "No one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American People." HL Mencken. Same could be said here,,,, Well, people vote according to not only their conscience but their need. If one side is telling you nothing about what it is going to offer you and gives you no hope, and the other promises you the earth.................most voters will always chance their arm on what they are being told. In fact abject silence often takes any decision making out of the equation, to some extent. It's a bit silly to put all of the blame for a decision you don't necessarily like or support on voters when they were faced with such a stupid strategy from Harris and the Democrats in the first place. Of course they either did not vote Harris or voted for Trump! |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 15, 2024 15:35:18 GMT
THIS WILL BACKFIRE ON TRUMP SO BADLY - AND HEREāS WHY: @realdonaldtrump said: āMy first week back in the Oval Office, my administration will inform every college president that, if you do not end antisemitic propaganda, they will lose their accreditation and federal taxpayer support.ā I SHOULDNāT BE THE FIRST ONE TO POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS, BUTā¦ 1. Firstly, using the Federal Govt to enforce a completely fake definition of āantisemitismā to close down higher education institutions/deny access to education based on political beliefs - is against the First Amendment of the US Constitution. If I have to point this out, then you need to re-read it ASAP. 2. Secondly, criticism of Israeli actions, Zionist ideology, or Israelās genocide in Palestine, or mass -murder of Lebanese people - is NOT āantisemiticā. And NO Supreme Court justice will back Trump & mediaās fanciful version of reality here (clearly being imposed by Israeli Lobby). 3. Supporting Palestinian human rights, the right to life, liberty and end to a brutal apartheid is NOT āantisemiticā, nor is it āpro-Hamasā or āpro-terrorism.ā Itās time we dispensed with this lie, before itās eventually obliterated by a US High Court judgement anyway. Even your most conservative justice, Clarence Thomas, will send this farce into juris oblivion, where it belongs. (Note to free speech warrior @elonmusk) 4. By allowing a foreign lobby to enact unconstitutional, dare we say *un-American*, disingenuous authoritarian moves like these - the President is empowering a very intelligent & highly motivated, nonpartisan opposition at home and abroad. Itās a losing gambit all around. Trump then added, āWe will not subsidize the creation of terrorist sympathizers and weāre certainly not going to do it on American soil. Next, I will inform every educational institution in our land that, if they permit violence, harassment, or threats against Jewish students, the schools will be held accountable for violations of the civil rights law.ā Utterly ridiculous, and embarrassing. Understand your office does itself no favors by allowing the Israeli Lobby to write these over-the-top, ill-advised speeches. This kind of half-baked reactionary politics will ultimately hurt you, your movement, and the country for that matter. Itās not even good for Israelis and Jews in America. It will create more animosity and fuel more of what you call āantisemitismā. You are directly fuelling a vicious cycle. There is no upside, itās 100% in the liability column. You will loseā¦ bigly. And The Lobby couldnāt care less if you do. They can always buy another. The problem is, Trump will have total power of the White House, the Senate and Congress, plus the Supreme Court is in his pocket. He is above the law and untouchable. He could murder and rape live-streamed on X and get away with it. Of course, that is indeed the worry. We will all be in much greater trouble than we could have ever imagined if it ultimately goes that far. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 15, 2024 15:41:06 GMT
The problem is, Trump will have total power of the White House, the Senate and Congress, plus the Supreme Court is in his pocket. He is above the law and untouchable. He could murder and rape live-streamed on X and get away with it. Of course, that is indeed the worry. We will all be in much greater trouble than we could have ever imagined if it ultimately goes that far. I get the feeling Musk is pulling the strings. I donāt know if that is better or worseā¦. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 15, 2024 15:47:08 GMT
Of course, that is indeed the worry. We will all be in much greater trouble than we could have ever imagined if it ultimately goes that far. I get the feeling Musk is pulling the strings. I donāt know if that is better or worseā¦. Shall we settle on 'as bad'. |
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