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Post by GoBoks on Mar 23, 2022 17:38:17 GMT
Some people just will never be happy. I reckon over 80 of the other 91 league clubs would give their right arm to have our owners, and of the remaining through, they depend on Middle Eastern/Chinese/American owners continuing to maintain their interest (always a question mark unlike rye Coates family) and generosity. Let’s have a look at the new Chelsea owners (especially if they are American), they will inject a large initial amount of cash, and like with Man Utd, they soon want to start having it repaid. We should feel immensely grateful for what and who we have. "Grateful"!?!?!? Just like, in a totally different arena, a certain lady now back home with her family after years in prison abroad, should be more grateful? This is the exact approach against which I rail - perfectly distilled into an Oatie post. Shut up and be grateful - you're lucky to have a job, food to eat, a house, a car, still to be alive......the likes of you do not have a right to expect or even wish for anything more, etc. The masses should be grateful for whatever crumbs fall from the billionaires' tables, and don't you dare do an Oliver Twist and ask for more...... I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison. Discretionary spending on an ultimately frivolous sporting pursuit versus life or death matters? How much do the Coates' give to charity? How many people rely on them for their livelihoods? It is equally ridiculous to assume that because they are rich they should simply give their money to anyone who asks. That system has been tried and failed over and over again. From what I have heard, I think that the City, the club and the people of Stoke would be much worse off if not for the Coates family.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 23, 2022 16:51:35 GMT
I agree Wuzza, although the lack of anything resembling a plan since 2017 worries me. Whose to say that there haven’t been very detailed plans .......that have gone wrong. It happens , especially in the weird old world of football. C'Mon Wuzza, don't you know football is played on paper (or a computer screen these days). You make your plans, they come to pass and success is guaranteed. Simples!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 23, 2022 16:18:55 GMT
I agree 100%! My post was tongue in cheek and simply highlighting the tendency on this thread to show the worst possible stat and use that as irrefutable proof that we've never been so bad off and the manager should be fired instantly. Just as I can't expect everyone/anyone to swallow the one-eyed positive spin, so too people should not expect everyone/anyone to swallow the one-eyed negative spin. Yes, we all wish we were in the playoff mix, but the fact that this was an expectation this season is tribute to how far we have come from relegation certainties when MON took over. Again though you're presenting this straw man argument all about the play-offs. If we were 9th/10th, showing some glimpses and within spitting distance, there would be grumbles but no groundswell to have him removed. Instead we're 15th and have barely two results to rub together in the second half of the season. I don't think it's one-eyed to be concerned about that? Again, though you're quick to write off all the reconstruction that has taken place, the margins between 10th and 15th are razor slim. A bad call, a significant injury, a shot that hit the post instead of going in, a momentary lapse in concentration... I think we are not far off from where we expected to be this season and that it would be a gross error to replace the manager at this stage. Clearly 120 pages later, there are some who are adamant on both sides of the coin. I'm glad the owners are putting their money where their mouth is and backing MON to finish the job he has started.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 23, 2022 16:12:30 GMT
Meanwhile, back in the “REAL” world, only 10 teams have scored more “ACTUAL” ( you know, those goals that actually count for you) goals than us. in fact, that would be an even more interesting table. Our ACTUAL GOALS to CGHN ratio is somewhere around 1.8. In other words we score almost twice as many goals as we’re expected to. MON must be doing something right to have such a high ratio of actual goals to expected goals.. “Only” 10 teams? And you’re touting this as some kind of *over*achievement on MON’s part? Ten teams in this division being better than us at anything is an(other) indication of his failure, not his success Yawn.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 23, 2022 14:34:45 GMT
And that’s unlikely in reality as the losses at Stoke are a drop in the ocean for Bet365. Agree its unlikely unless they ever wanted to float but I still doubt Denise is that chuffed that £160m spent on Stoke returns £0 whereas £160m spent on bet 365 they'd expect 5%+ profit back, so I expect John and Peter dont get much at xmas and for birthdays What to get the man who has everything for his Birthday? I know, a 160 Million Pound loss!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 23, 2022 14:23:53 GMT
Meanwhile, back in the “REAL” world, only 10 teams have scored more “ACTUAL” ( you know, those goals that actually count for you) goals than us. in fact, that would be an even more interesting table. Our ACTUAL GOALS to CGHN ratio is somewhere around 1.8. In other words we score almost twice as many goals as we’re expected to. MON must be doing something right to have such a high ratio of actual goals to expected goals.. Sorry, you can't have it both ways and dismiss a run of four wins in 19 as meaningless and then trumpet the number of goals we've scored as a positive? Actual goals count for more than expected goals, but they too are meaningless if they're not transformed into results. You can't say he 'must be doing something' right on one thing but refuse to acknowledge the other. I agree 100%! My post was tongue in cheek and simply highlighting the tendency on this thread to show the worst possible stat and use that as irrefutable proof that we've never been so bad off and the manager should be fired instantly. Just as I can't expect everyone/anyone to swallow the one-eyed positive spin, so too people should not expect everyone/anyone to swallow the one-eyed negative spin. Yes, we all wish we were in the playoff mix, but the fact that this was an expectation this season is tribute to how far we have come from relegation certainties when MON took over.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 23, 2022 11:08:36 GMT
The Opta open play Expected Goals totals for the season suggest that there's something going fundamentally wrong dataviz.theanalyst.com/season-reviews/2021/?competition_id=10&season_id=2021Fulham 57.5 B'mouth 50.5 Sheff U 43.4 Cov 40.1 WBA 39.4 Boro 38.9 Bburn 38.6 B'ham 35.7 QPR 35.3 Luton 35.1 Swans 34.5 Forest 34.5 Brist C 33.9 Cardiff 31.9 Hull 31 PNE 29.9 Bpool 29.5 Millwall 29 Reading 27.8 Hudders 27.8 STOKE 27.3Derby 24.9 Pboro 24.7 Barnsley 22.6 Blimey! I had a sense we were struggling but that is dire. Meanwhile, back in the “REAL” world, only 10 teams have scored more “ACTUAL” ( you know, those goals that actually count for you) goals than us. in fact, that would be an even more interesting table. Our ACTUAL GOALS to XG ratio is somewhere around 1.8. In other words we score almost twice as many goals as we’re expected to. MON must be doing something right to have such a high ratio of actual goals to expected goals..
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 23, 2022 10:57:20 GMT
If thread is going to stretch to another 120 pages I'd be grateful if we could give the incumbent manager his missing apostrophe and capital 'N' ? I mean at least spell the blokes name right ! My thought exactly. It does not inspire confidence in the opinions expressed when they can’t even spell the topic being opined upon!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 21, 2022 18:09:54 GMT
There’s just a teeny problem with all this conjecture……… There is no vacancy for Stoke Manager and……….sorry that the small vocal minority is going to be disappointed, but the earliest a vacancy will exist will be in 2023. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side of the fence! I have concrete 😉
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 21, 2022 10:02:14 GMT
Their fans are going through a hell of a lot. Maybe Hyaduck's inane ramblings about O'Neill are not so bad compared to what their MBs must be like. I don't think anyone would really want to see a club go to the wall unless you were a bit of an arse who doesn't really get what football is about. No fan of Derby and the town smells of wee but relegation would be enough Why is anyone wanting Derby to go to the wall ? I see people discussing a club that has been up for sale and unable to find a buyer for 4 years+ and has now been in administration for 7 months talking about the reality of the situation unless morris pays off a chunk of the debt no one is going to pay the price "his" administrarors seem to want, liquidation is becoming more likely by the day as players (assets) are sold cheaply or leave for free whilst the amount of creditors just incresses. I’m guessing that if you’re one of the creditors who are being stiffed, the more pressure being put on the Organization that owes you money, the better. I like Derby and it would be sad to lose a former Champion of England, but….. people are often complaining that “no other business has the artificial financial constraints imposed on them like football clubs”. In any business, if you can’t pay your bills and no one wants to buy you, you go bankrupt and cease to exist. For the record, my boyhood local club, Southern Suburbs, suffered this fate, so I’ve seen it happen to my club.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 21, 2022 9:50:39 GMT
There’s just a teeny problem with all this conjecture……… There is no vacancy for Stoke Manager and……….sorry that the small vocal minority is going to be disappointed, but the earliest a vacancy will exist will be in 2023. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side of the fence!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 20, 2022 20:24:01 GMT
For all the praise of Pulis and criticism of Hughes their win percentage is very close. Bearing in mind that Pulis had 2 seasons in the Championship including a promotion campaign and Hughes had all his matches at Premier level including half a relegation campaign it's hard to use the stats to say Pulis was a better manager. Perhaps some have their rose tinted glasses on re Pulis because he took and kept us in the Promised Land. Admittedly Pulis' stats are spread over more seasons so are more likely to be an accurate reflection of his achievement I would have thought Hughes managed us for long enough for his percentage to be reasonably accurate. That percentage includes his first stint as well.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 20, 2022 20:12:00 GMT
That has bumped our win percentage this year up from 14% to 20% in the league. 👍👍👍 Me thinks your math needs a little extra work. We had 12 wins out of 37 games. Now it’s 13 wins out of 38 games. 14% of 37 is about 4 wins and 20% of 38is about 7.6 wins. How exactly do we record point six of a win?
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 20, 2022 10:43:22 GMT
Or possibly we made them look ordinary? Did you actually watch the game? We looked very ordinary ourselves it was not an inspiring performance. In the circumstances, our run of form I suppose that was very unlikely but it wasn’t a performance to fill you with confidence. To me, we controlled the game, did much more attacking than they did and although the end product was somewhat lacking, it was an easy win. Just exactly what do you mean when you say we looked ordinary? Does it mean that we did not put together several Marradonnaesque solo runs or Beckhamesque free kicks? Is an ordinary performance for Real Madrid the same as an ordinary performance for Stoke? What would have to have occurred for it to be judged extraordinary? Should we actually take ordinary as a compliment?
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 20, 2022 0:14:29 GMT
Really good for some games, tough games even, then chucks in some howlers Far too many howlers lately Only 20,he will probably improve and reduce the howler frequency If he was our player would be arguing to tough out and the consistency will come (see Tymon for e.g.) However he's not our player. Let’s promote Fotrester and Taylor instead for next season and be patient with them instead Fotrester can play now of course LB you should know better! Patience & Stoke fans? That’s an oxymoron on steroids!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 22:25:18 GMT
I think this should be re-introduced , it doesn't have to be complicated with the likes of clean sheet/goal scorer bonuses just a straight win bonus for the day team squad it must fire the team up more knowing they could get this , what dya reckon 100% Agree. In fact this leads directly into much of the financial malaise that exists in the EFL and/or Prem. All players at every club should get a good basic wage tiered on importance to club e.g. Star Players (probably need a maximum number get 5 times basic. Regular first teamers get 4x basic and so on down to youth/wannabes get basic. Then the bonuses kick in. Smallish individual bonuses for goals/assists/player ratings/tackles, etc. Big team bonuses for wins (based on form/difficulty of opponent/league position of opponent), clean sheets and such. You play crap and lose, you get the basic. You play crap and draw you get basic and a smidge. you play well and win..... Where's that bentley showroom!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 22:17:51 GMT
It definitely went away, Scholes got rid of it after relegation We went on to have a record number of draws... Think it was reintroduced the following season Definitely, or you think or you know 🤷♂️ Definitely was thrown out by Scholes. Widely reported in local media and on here.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 22:07:07 GMT
In actual fact, it's 13 wins out of 38. The first 6 months were a rescue job. The first full season (massively disrupted by Covid) was a clearing the decks job. This season has begun the building job and frankly, the fact that in 18 months MON has taken us from dead cert relegation fodder to everyone being angry we're not in the playoffs is a testament to the good work he has done. If he’s here next season we will be relegated In your opinion. In my opinion we will be challenging at the top end. One of us is wrong. Time will tell.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 20:59:34 GMT
And you’re a sad angry individual who is disappointed that the team he”supports “ won. Seeing as how you can’t be bothered to face facts…….it’s about 62% of the past 80 seasons we have lost 15 or more games. 5 of the times we were better than that, we were playing in a lower division. Having a mid table finish is not the end of the world. We are building and I for one am already looking forward to next season! You call me sad when you're number crunching stats from yesteryear. It's completely irrelevant you barmpot 😆 Mr “thevoidbetweenyourears “, clearly you’re still angry we won today. I’m sorry you can’t enjoy it when your team wins. Call me what you want, after all you have already exposed your bigotry by attacking my nationality, I won’t be reading any of your next 22,000 posts as I’ve put you on mute. I choose to enjoy my time following Stoke - Thank goodness for technology! Have a great life and C’Mon Stoke!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 20:53:24 GMT
So you thought Millwall were good then today? I don't think he was saying they were good just stating facts they'd won 6 drawn 2 don't think they'd conceded in 5, but yes they didn't look that impressive today possibly thought they only had to turn up. Or possibly we made them look ordinary?
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 20:50:52 GMT
Maybe so, but I support Stoke, warts and all. I don’t delude myself that we should have gone from dead cert relegation fodder to promotion in 24 months. I’m pleased with the turnaround that’s been achieved and hope we can build on this firm foundation. C’mon Stoke! Yeh but forest have come from clear cut away from bottom to what looks like serious play off contenders in 1/2 a season so why do we have to wait 3 years We were relegated to the third tier with Manchester City, now look at them. Why haven’t we won their trophies? Who the hell knows? Ted posted an interesting piece on “The Football Gods” humorous but a hint of truth. I don’t give a toot what Forest do. When they were in the doldrums and we were in the Prem, I bet you weren’t asking yourself, why Stoke isn’t where Forest are! Our team is building for the future after a terrible few years. I have no doubt we will rise again.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 20:44:21 GMT
“thevoidbetweenyourears”. I recognize that name from somewhere. Oh yes, it was you wishing we’d lose today. Poor thing you must be devastated. Never mind, just pretend it didn’t happen, like you try to pretend that Stoke’s history hasn’t happened. Give a guess how many times in the past 80 years (deliberately long so that it includes our golden years) we’ve lost more than 15 games in a season? Like I said, it’s not the end of the world - I wish we’d lost zero games, but I’ll live, and so will you. I hope you’re looking forward to next season and will try refrain from wishing Stoke lose. You're away with the fairies fella And you’re a sad angry individual who is disappointed that the team he”supports “ won. Seeing as how you can’t be bothered to face facts…….it’s about 62% of the past 80 seasons we have lost 15 or more games. 5 of the times we were better than that, we were playing in a lower division. Having a mid table finish is not the end of the world. We are building and I for one am already looking forward to next season!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 20:25:11 GMT
I'm sure he knows who he is. I obviously have higher aspirations for my team than a dick like you who bangs on (from afar) about stats from 134 years ago that have no bearing on today whatsoever. Your post further up about '15 defeats being no big deal' says it all- as do your constant ridiculous comparisons with the pressures faced by football managers and secretaries being in any way similar. You're utterly deluded. Today changes nothing. Have a nice life, strive for more than 4 wins from 20 and C'mon Stoke 🤜💦 “thevoidbetweenyourears”. I recognize that name from somewhere. Oh yes, it was you wishing we’d lose today. Poor thing you must be devastated. Never mind, just pretend it didn’t happen, like you try to pretend that Stoke’s history hasn’t happened. Give a guess how many times in the past 80 years (deliberately long so that it includes our golden years) we’ve lost more than 15 games in a season? Like I said, it’s not the end of the world - I wish we’d lost zero games, but I’ll live, and so will you. I hope you’re looking forward to next season and will try refrain from wishing Stoke lose.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 18:36:49 GMT
I think the fact that he has done a good job and if the season were to end today, has missed out on a top half finish by 3 places, he deserves a chance to do it next season. “Remember that season when we nearly finished in the top half of the championship”. Good times. There’s a saying that goes “remember that season that Manchester United nearly fired SAF”
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 18:34:26 GMT
Perspective. The previous poster said he did not expect playoffs but was hoping for a top half finish. But, seeing as how we have had to rebuild a “dead man walking” team, it is a testament to the good job that he has done that we all were hoping for promotion this season. Delusional Maybe so, but I support Stoke, warts and all. I don’t delude myself that we should have gone from dead cert relegation fodder to promotion in 24 months. I’m pleased with the turnaround that’s been achieved and hope we can build on this firm foundation. C’mon Stoke!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 18:23:39 GMT
Interesting! Perhaps you've stumbled on the solution? Give him a short term, "back's against the wall" goal to achieve at regular intervals. "Save us from dead cert relegation" - He did it! "Win this game or you're fired" - He did it. "Get us promoted within 3 years" - Hmmm jury is still out - we'll know next season. Some managers are naturally " backs to the wall " managers though aren't they ? Pulis being a prime example. Once that dirty word " expectations " rears its head though they can't handle it and revert to type. Yep, but it makes sense. For the previous 10 years, MON was always backs against the wall. Now he had the luxury of a long term goal. He may still do it.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 18:21:45 GMT
I think the fact that he has done a good job and if the season were to end today, has missed out on a top half finish by 3 places, he deserves a chance to do it next season. Fucking hell !! - when did missing out on a top half finish by three places become a success deserving of yet another season at the helm - given the chance he will indeed most likely “do it next season” - again! We should have been playoffs or within a shout going into the last 5 games to regard this as anywhere near a successful season....... Perspective. The previous poster said he did not expect playoffs but was hoping for a top half finish. But, seeing as how we have had to rebuild a “dead man walking” team, it is a testament to the good job that he has done that we all were hoping for promotion this season.
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 18:18:19 GMT
I understand. For me it's all the "Everything Stoke is Crap" threads that proliferate the board that piss me off. So why not just start a thread (if you really felt that you needed to) titled "great win" rather than what you did trying to dig at people who don't agree with you rather than just enjoying the win? Great win! Very Good! Nah, I prefer my threads to have more descriptive titles. I was wondering why the plethora of “That was Crap” threads were, so that’s what I put as the title. Feel free to edit as you drown your sorrows!
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 18:10:52 GMT
On 56 minutes with Millwall building momentum O’Neill was stood hands in pockets clueless and not taking any proactive action. Fortunately we managed to get through despite this. Vrancic should have been subbed at half time and Maia at some point in the second half as he passed to their players more often than ours. We got lucky today that they played badly and missed a pen, however Jagialka, Moore, Baker, Brown and Wright Phillips all played well. And a couple of seasons ago Jones was jumping around like a dervish and everyone was moaning about that. He is the manager, he will manage the way he is comfortable managing not try and do what 28,000 fans with 28,000 different opinions think he should do. The team weathered the storm and won. Are you seriously complaining because he didn't do what you would have done?
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Post by GoBoks on Mar 19, 2022 18:07:21 GMT
In actual fact, it's 13 wins out of 38. The first 6 months were a rescue job. The first full season (massively disrupted by Covid) was a clearing the decks job. This season has begun the building job and frankly, the fact that in 18 months MON has taken us from dead cert relegation fodder to everyone being angry we're not in the playoffs is a testament to the good work he has done. I think that everyone (or most) supporters recognise that MoN has done a fantastic job in terms of: a) rescuing us from what looked like certain oblivion, and ... b) ... stabilising the club amidst the mess of FFP. However, that doesn't change the fact that the squad we currently have should absolutely not be wallowing around in 15th place in this division. I don't think anyone can argue that our form since the turn of the year has been pretty horrendous and that we have not been getting enough out of what, in theory, is a relatively decent squad(?). I didn't expect promotion this season, but I did expect a top half finish with us staying in the chase for the play offs for as long as possible. The fact that our season was effectively over by late-February (whilst there are still 10+ over clubs in the play off race) is pretty galling. I like MoN and I want him to succeed - but I can't see him being able to build a team that wins the 20 to 25 games in a season that's required for a genuine play off push. I think the fact that he has done a good job and if the season were to end today, has missed out on a top half finish by 3 places, he deserves a chance to do it next season.
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