Debunking the arguments in favour of the ownership

[andycooke96]

This thread is not intended as a criticism of those who believe that the current ownership, it is merely trying to provide some counter arguments to some of the points that are often made in their favour.



1. They are local supporters/care about the area

This is in theory an ideal quality in an owner, however it does not equate to success. Additionally the horrendous running of the football club will have a detrimental impact on the area. Job losses and wage cuts for those within the club will follow our relegation as well as a loss of income for businesses that rely on a matchday e.t.c

2.They pump money into the club

This means nothing when the money is spent badly, plenty of clubs with smaller resources than us do much better things on and off the pitch than we do because they have a strategy. A less wealthy owner would not necessarily equate to lack of success

3. We would be in League 2/another Bury/not exist without the Coates family

This is probably the most bizarre argument. In our history we have spent 8 seasons in the 3rd tier. (2 of these relegations occurred under the Coates family) Historically we are a bottom half prem/top half championship side, there is nothing to suggest that if the Coates family did not own the club that we would be in the lower reaches of the EFL.

4. Without them we would be in financial trouble, just look at the clubs debt!

This has been entirely self inflicted by the ownerships lack of strategy. Allowing managers and technical directors to spend millions and millions of pounds without any clear plan has led to the issues we faced with financial fair play. John Coates seems to be banking a lot of our future plans on changes to the FFP rules, can someone name any other business that would operate in the hope of a law or regulation change? In fairness it is a valid concern that any change in ownership would result in some financial worries, especially given any new owners would have to buy the club and the stadium as seperate assets (who was responsible for selling the ground again?)

5. Who would want to buy Stoke?

This argument does a massive disservice to the history and potential of the club. We are the second oldest professional club in world football, we have had some of the greats of English football wear the red and white stripes, we are known the world over in a way that most other clubs in our division are not(some might laugh at this, but Im currently living in South East Asia, if you mention our name everyone knows about the delap throw in and the cold windy night in stoke e.t.c.) We play in a proud working class area with a rich culture and history and with success would come a fervent support and 30,000 crowds every week.

6.But they back the managers

This is true, financially at least, however none of these managers have been given a structure to operate in successfully. Every manager since 2018 has failed at the club, that is not just bad luck that comes from a lack of vision and strategy at boardroom level. If you think all the managers are crap managers, then who has been appointing them?


7. Even if this is all true, John Coates won't sack himself, what do you suggest?

The owners often talk about their love of the area, then they should recognise what they are doing to its football club. There are plenty of options, bringing on board a minority shareholder with knowledge of football and how to operate successfully, retaining full control but bringing in an independent consultancy to audit the club and pinpoint the areas for improvement. Bringing in an independent Director of football to run the football side of things. Or as mentioned in the previous point, there would be people willing to buy the club based on the aforementioned history and reputation of the club.

Hopefully that changes a few peoples minds, in terms of what should be done next, questions need to be asked about the board at every opportunity, fans forums, praise and grumble and during matchdays, failing that it might time to bring out the old SOS banners again.

[wakeypotter]

Feb 25, 2024 4:51:21 GMT andycooke96 said:

This thread is not intended as a criticism of those who believe that the current ownership, it is merely trying to provide some counter arguments to some of the points that are often made in their favour.



1. They are local supporters/care about the area

This is in theory an ideal quality in an owner, however it does not equate to success. Additionally the horrendous running of the football club will have a detrimental impact on the area. Job losses and wage cuts for those within the club will follow our relegation as well as a loss of income for businesses that rely on a matchday e.t.c

2.They pump money into the club

This means nothing when the money is spent badly, plenty of clubs with smaller resources than us do much better things on and off the pitch than we do because they have a strategy. A less wealthy owner would not necessarily equate to lack of success

3. We would be in League 2/another Bury/not exist without the Coates family

This is probably the most bizarre argument. In our history we have spent 8 seasons in the 3rd tier. (2 of these relegations occurred under the Coates family) Historically we are a bottom half prem/top half championship side, there is nothing to suggest that if the Coates family did not own the club that we would be in the lower reaches of the EFL.

4. Without them we would be in financial trouble, just look at the clubs debt!

This has been entirely self inflicted by the ownerships lack of strategy. Allowing managers and technical directors to spend millions and millions of pounds without any clear plan has led to the issues we faced with financial fair play. John Coates seems to be banking a lot of our future plans on changes to the FFP rules, can someone name any other business that would operate in the hope of a law or regulation change? In fairness it is a valid concern that any change in ownership would result in some financial worries, especially given any new owners would have to buy the club and the stadium as seperate assets (who was responsible for selling the ground again?)

5. Who would want to buy Stoke?

This argument does a massive disservice to the history and potential of the club. We are the second oldest professional club in world football, we have had some of the greats of English football wear the red and white stripes, we are known the world over in a way that most other clubs in our division are not(some might laugh at this, but Im currently living in South East Asia, if you mention our name everyone knows about the delap throw in and the cold windy night in stoke e.t.c.) We play in a proud working class area with a rich culture and history and with success would come a fervent support and 30,000 crowds every week.

6.But they back the managers

This is true, financially at least, however none of these managers have been given a structure to operate in successfully. Every manager since 2018 has failed at the club, that is not just bad luck that comes from a lack of vision and strategy at boardroom level. If you think all the managers are crap managers, then who has been appointing them?


7. Even if this is all true, John Coates won't sack himself, what do you suggest?

The owners often talk about their love of the area, then they should recognise what they are doing to its football club. There are plenty of options, bringing on board a minority shareholder with knowledge of football and how to operate successfully, retaining full control but bringing in an independent consultancy to audit the club and pinpoint the areas for improvement. Bringing in an independent Director of football to run the football side of things. Or as mentioned in the previous point, there would be people willing to buy the club based on the aforementioned history and reputation of the club.

Hopefully that changes a few peoples minds, in terms of what should be done next, questions need to be asked about the board at every opportunity, fans forums, praise and grumble and during matchdays, failing that it might time to bring out the old SOS banners again.

1. Agree

2. we may as well have no money as they couldn’t have done any worse

3. No we wouldn’t there are plenty of people who could run this club a lot better

4. No we wouldn’t, they are not the only people with money

5. Who knows if you don’t try

6. Contradicts no 4

7. If they love the club,area,supporters like you say jc could resign sit at home with his dad and either sell up or put someone in charge who knows what they are doing.

[andycooke96]

Feb 25, 2024 5:15:14 GMT wakeypotter said:

Feb 25, 2024 4:51:21 GMT andycooke96 said:

This thread is not intended as a criticism of those who believe that the current ownership, it is merely trying to provide some counter arguments to some of the points that are often made in their favour.



1. They are local supporters/care about the area

This is in theory an ideal quality in an owner, however it does not equate to success. Additionally the horrendous running of the football club will have a detrimental impact on the area. Job losses and wage cuts for those within the club will follow our relegation as well as a loss of income for businesses that rely on a matchday e.t.c

2.They pump money into the club

This means nothing when the money is spent badly, plenty of clubs with smaller resources than us do much better things on and off the pitch than we do because they have a strategy. A less wealthy owner would not necessarily equate to lack of success

3. We would be in League 2/another Bury/not exist without the Coates family

This is probably the most bizarre argument. In our history we have spent 8 seasons in the 3rd tier. (2 of these relegations occurred under the Coates family) Historically we are a bottom half prem/top half championship side, there is nothing to suggest that if the Coates family did not own the club that we would be in the lower reaches of the EFL.

4. Without them we would be in financial trouble, just look at the clubs debt!

This has been entirely self inflicted by the ownerships lack of strategy. Allowing managers and technical directors to spend millions and millions of pounds without any clear plan has led to the issues we faced with financial fair play. John Coates seems to be banking a lot of our future plans on changes to the FFP rules, can someone name any other business that would operate in the hope of a law or regulation change? In fairness it is a valid concern that any change in ownership would result in some financial worries, especially given any new owners would have to buy the club and the stadium as seperate assets (who was responsible for selling the ground again?)

5. Who would want to buy Stoke?

This argument does a massive disservice to the history and potential of the club. We are the second oldest professional club in world football, we have had some of the greats of English football wear the red and white stripes, we are known the world over in a way that most other clubs in our division are not(some might laugh at this, but Im currently living in South East Asia, if you mention our name everyone knows about the delap throw in and the cold windy night in stoke e.t.c.) We play in a proud working class area with a rich culture and history and with success would come a fervent support and 30,000 crowds every week.

6.But they back the managers

This is true, financially at least, however none of these managers have been given a structure to operate in successfully. Every manager since 2018 has failed at the club, that is not just bad luck that comes from a lack of vision and strategy at boardroom level. If you think all the managers are crap managers, then who has been appointing them?


7. Even if this is all true, John Coates won't sack himself, what do you suggest?

The owners often talk about their love of the area, then they should recognise what they are doing to its football club. There are plenty of options, bringing on board a minority shareholder with knowledge of football and how to operate successfully, retaining full control but bringing in an independent consultancy to audit the club and pinpoint the areas for improvement. Bringing in an independent Director of football to run the football side of things. Or as mentioned in the previous point, there would be people willing to buy the club based on the aforementioned history and reputation of the club.

Hopefully that changes a few peoples minds, in terms of what should be done next, questions need to be asked about the board at every opportunity, fans forums, praise and grumble and during matchdays, failing that it might time to bring out the old SOS banners again.

1. Agree

2. we may as well have no money as they couldn’t have done any worse

3. No we wouldn’t there are plenty of people who could run this club a lot better

4. No we wouldn’t, they are not the only people with money

5. Who knows if you don’t try

6. Contradicts no 4

7. If they love the club,area,supporters like you say jc could resign sit at home with his dad and either sell up or put someone in charge who knows what they are doing.

Agreed, JC is in danger of, if it isn’t the case already, of his legacy being squandering the family’s fortune and taking the club to its lowest ebb. The current ruination of the football club is a lot more damaging for the city than the positives of having bet 365 in the area

[doctortheopolis]

Excellent post. Sums up how I feel. The "they are local", " they spend millions" arguments are always the two that you hear when talking to a Coates supporter but they never think of the factors behind those.

The notion of a minority shareholder who has proven successful business experience (John doesn't, his sister does) is interesting. This seems to be happening at Man Utd.

The simple fact is that we have spent 8 seasons in the 3rd tier and for half of them, the club was under the Coates' stewardship. God knows how long the next stint will be.

[jeycov]

Feb 25, 2024 4:51:21 GMT andycooke96 said:

This thread is not intended as a criticism of those who believe that the current ownership, it is merely trying to provide some counter arguments to some of the points that are often made in their favour.



1. They are local supporters/care about the area

This is in theory an ideal quality in an owner, however it does not equate to success. Additionally the horrendous running of the football club will have a detrimental impact on the area. Job losses and wage cuts for those within the club will follow our relegation as well as a loss of income for businesses that rely on a matchday e.t.c

2.They pump money into the club

This means nothing when the money is spent badly, plenty of clubs with smaller resources than us do much better things on and off the pitch than we do because they have a strategy. A less wealthy owner would not necessarily equate to lack of success

3. We would be in League 2/another Bury/not exist without the Coates family

This is probably the most bizarre argument. In our history we have spent 8 seasons in the 3rd tier. (2 of these relegations occurred under the Coates family) Historically we are a bottom half prem/top half championship side, there is nothing to suggest that if the Coates family did not own the club that we would be in the lower reaches of the EFL.

4. Without them we would be in financial trouble, just look at the clubs debt!

This has been entirely self inflicted by the ownerships lack of strategy. Allowing managers and technical directors to spend millions and millions of pounds without any clear plan has led to the issues we faced with financial fair play. John Coates seems to be banking a lot of our future plans on changes to the FFP rules, can someone name any other business that would operate in the hope of a law or regulation change? In fairness it is a valid concern that any change in ownership would result in some financial worries, especially given any new owners would have to buy the club and the stadium as seperate assets (who was responsible for selling the ground again?)

5. Who would want to buy Stoke?

This argument does a massive disservice to the history and potential of the club. We are the second oldest professional club in world football, we have had some of the greats of English football wear the red and white stripes, we are known the world over in a way that most other clubs in our division are not(some might laugh at this, but Im currently living in South East Asia, if you mention our name everyone knows about the delap throw in and the cold windy night in stoke e.t.c.) We play in a proud working class area with a rich culture and history and with success would come a fervent support and 30,000 crowds every week.

6.But they back the managers

This is true, financially at least, however none of these managers have been given a structure to operate in successfully. Every manager since 2018 has failed at the club, that is not just bad luck that comes from a lack of vision and strategy at boardroom level. If you think all the managers are crap managers, then who has been appointing them?


7. Even if this is all true, John Coates won't sack himself, what do you suggest?

The owners often talk about their love of the area, then they should recognise what they are doing to its football club. There are plenty of options, bringing on board a minority shareholder with knowledge of football and how to operate successfully, retaining full control but bringing in an independent consultancy to audit the club and pinpoint the areas for improvement. Bringing in an independent Director of football to run the football side of things. Or as mentioned in the previous point, there would be people willing to buy the club based on the aforementioned history and reputation of the club.

Hopefully that changes a few peoples minds, in terms of what should be done next, questions need to be asked about the board at every opportunity, fans forums, praise and grumble and during matchdays, failing that it might time to bring out the old SOS banners again.

Point 7 excellent suggestion

[biddulphchav]

Feb 25, 2024 4:51:21 GMT andycooke96 said:

This thread is not intended as a criticism of those who believe that the current ownership, it is merely trying to provide some counter arguments to some of the points that are often made in their favour.



1. They are local supporters/care about the area

This is in theory an ideal quality in an owner, however it does not equate to success. Additionally the horrendous running of the football club will have a detrimental impact on the area. Job losses and wage cuts for those within the club will follow our relegation as well as a loss of income for businesses that rely on a matchday e.t.c

2.They pump money into the club

This means nothing when the money is spent badly, plenty of clubs with smaller resources than us do much better things on and off the pitch than we do because they have a strategy. A less wealthy owner would not necessarily equate to lack of success

3. We would be in League 2/another Bury/not exist without the Coates family

This is probably the most bizarre argument. In our history we have spent 8 seasons in the 3rd tier. (2 of these relegations occurred under the Coates family) Historically we are a bottom half prem/top half championship side, there is nothing to suggest that if the Coates family did not own the club that we would be in the lower reaches of the EFL.

4. Without them we would be in financial trouble, just look at the clubs debt!

This has been entirely self inflicted by the ownerships lack of strategy. Allowing managers and technical directors to spend millions and millions of pounds without any clear plan has led to the issues we faced with financial fair play. John Coates seems to be banking a lot of our future plans on changes to the FFP rules, can someone name any other business that would operate in the hope of a law or regulation change? In fairness it is a valid concern that any change in ownership would result in some financial worries, especially given any new owners would have to buy the club and the stadium as seperate assets (who was responsible for selling the ground again?)

5. Who would want to buy Stoke?

This argument does a massive disservice to the history and potential of the club. We are the second oldest professional club in world football, we have had some of the greats of English football wear the red and white stripes, we are known the world over in a way that most other clubs in our division are not(some might laugh at this, but Im currently living in South East Asia, if you mention our name everyone knows about the delap throw in and the cold windy night in stoke e.t.c.) We play in a proud working class area with a rich culture and history and with success would come a fervent support and 30,000 crowds every week.

6.But they back the managers

This is true, financially at least, however none of these managers have been given a structure to operate in successfully. Every manager since 2018 has failed at the club, that is not just bad luck that comes from a lack of vision and strategy at boardroom level. If you think all the managers are crap managers, then who has been appointing them?


7. Even if this is all true, John Coates won't sack himself, what do you suggest?

The owners often talk about their love of the area, then they should recognise what they are doing to its football club. There are plenty of options, bringing on board a minority shareholder with knowledge of football and how to operate successfully, retaining full control but bringing in an independent consultancy to audit the club and pinpoint the areas for improvement. Bringing in an independent Director of football to run the football side of things. Or as mentioned in the previous point, there would be people willing to buy the club based on the aforementioned history and reputation of the club.

Hopefully that changes a few peoples minds, in terms of what should be done next, questions need to be asked about the board at every opportunity, fans forums, praise and grumble and during matchdays, failing that it might time to bring out the old SOS banners again.

I didn’t read it all but the point about money is all well and good. There is a massive difference between having money and not spending it wisely, and not having any money. You can’t just dismiss that in a few lines of text. It’s absolute lunacy to write off the investment and wealth of the owners like that. Having money and owners who are willing to spend it offers us so many opportunities to get this back on track. This means players, but also people who can come into the club to run it on their behalf. If you take that financial muscle away we will probably in League 1 with no hope to get back up.

The club needs to be run better, for sure. Change of ownership I don’t believe is the right way to achieve that.

[citynickscfc]

People are not discussing the giant elephant in the room, the geo-political and global situation.

Investment from the east? From the far west? It's going to be impossible. Stoke isn't a brand, and even then ownership shifts are westernised and the geo-political climate is just to unstable. New owners would have to be British more than likely. I don't see any likely viable investors.

John coates is still the best chairman we could probably hope for monetarily speaking, the issue is the running of the club shouldn't be from the chairman or a board that is clueless about football.

[scfcbiancorossi]

Fantastic post, bang on.

[LGH87]

Feb 25, 2024 4:51:21 GMT andycooke96 said:

This thread is not intended as a criticism of those who believe that the current ownership, it is merely trying to provide some counter arguments to some of the points that are often made in their favour.



1. They are local supporters/care about the area

This is in theory an ideal quality in an owner, however it does not equate to success. Additionally the horrendous running of the football club will have a detrimental impact on the area. Job losses and wage cuts for those within the club will follow our relegation as well as a loss of income for businesses that rely on a matchday e.t.c

2.They pump money into the club

This means nothing when the money is spent badly, plenty of clubs with smaller resources than us do much better things on and off the pitch than we do because they have a strategy. A less wealthy owner would not necessarily equate to lack of success

3. We would be in League 2/another Bury/not exist without the Coates family

This is probably the most bizarre argument. In our history we have spent 8 seasons in the 3rd tier. (2 of these relegations occurred under the Coates family) Historically we are a bottom half prem/top half championship side, there is nothing to suggest that if the Coates family did not own the club that we would be in the lower reaches of the EFL.

4. Without them we would be in financial trouble, just look at the clubs debt!

This has been entirely self inflicted by the ownerships lack of strategy. Allowing managers and technical directors to spend millions and millions of pounds without any clear plan has led to the issues we faced with financial fair play. John Coates seems to be banking a lot of our future plans on changes to the FFP rules, can someone name any other business that would operate in the hope of a law or regulation change? In fairness it is a valid concern that any change in ownership would result in some financial worries, especially given any new owners would have to buy the club and the stadium as seperate assets (who was responsible for selling the ground again?)

5. Who would want to buy Stoke?

This argument does a massive disservice to the history and potential of the club. We are the second oldest professional club in world football, we have had some of the greats of English football wear the red and white stripes, we are known the world over in a way that most other clubs in our division are not(some might laugh at this, but Im currently living in South East Asia, if you mention our name everyone knows about the delap throw in and the cold windy night in stoke e.t.c.) We play in a proud working class area with a rich culture and history and with success would come a fervent support and 30,000 crowds every week.

6.But they back the managers

This is true, financially at least, however none of these managers have been given a structure to operate in successfully. Every manager since 2018 has failed at the club, that is not just bad luck that comes from a lack of vision and strategy at boardroom level. If you think all the managers are crap managers, then who has been appointing them?


7. Even if this is all true, John Coates won't sack himself, what do you suggest?

The owners often talk about their love of the area, then they should recognise what they are doing to its football club. There are plenty of options, bringing on board a minority shareholder with knowledge of football and how to operate successfully, retaining full control but bringing in an independent consultancy to audit the club and pinpoint the areas for improvement. Bringing in an independent Director of football to run the football side of things. Or as mentioned in the previous point, there would be people willing to buy the club based on the aforementioned history and reputation of the club.

Hopefully that changes a few peoples minds, in terms of what should be done next, questions need to be asked about the board at every opportunity, fans forums, praise and grumble and during matchdays, failing that it might time to bring out the old SOS banners again.

Quite possibly the post of the decade👏👏

Don’t expect any responses from the cult though, they can’t possibly argue against any of it.

[andycooke96]

Feb 25, 2024 10:31:29 GMT LGH87 said:

Feb 25, 2024 4:51:21 GMT andycooke96 said:

This thread is not intended as a criticism of those who believe that the current ownership, it is merely trying to provide some counter arguments to some of the points that are often made in their favour.



1. They are local supporters/care about the area

This is in theory an ideal quality in an owner, however it does not equate to success. Additionally the horrendous running of the football club will have a detrimental impact on the area. Job losses and wage cuts for those within the club will follow our relegation as well as a loss of income for businesses that rely on a matchday e.t.c

2.They pump money into the club

This means nothing when the money is spent badly, plenty of clubs with smaller resources than us do much better things on and off the pitch than we do because they have a strategy. A less wealthy owner would not necessarily equate to lack of success

3. We would be in League 2/another Bury/not exist without the Coates family

This is probably the most bizarre argument. In our history we have spent 8 seasons in the 3rd tier. (2 of these relegations occurred under the Coates family) Historically we are a bottom half prem/top half championship side, there is nothing to suggest that if the Coates family did not own the club that we would be in the lower reaches of the EFL.

4. Without them we would be in financial trouble, just look at the clubs debt!

This has been entirely self inflicted by the ownerships lack of strategy. Allowing managers and technical directors to spend millions and millions of pounds without any clear plan has led to the issues we faced with financial fair play. John Coates seems to be banking a lot of our future plans on changes to the FFP rules, can someone name any other business that would operate in the hope of a law or regulation change? In fairness it is a valid concern that any change in ownership would result in some financial worries, especially given any new owners would have to buy the club and the stadium as seperate assets (who was responsible for selling the ground again?)

5. Who would want to buy Stoke?

This argument does a massive disservice to the history and potential of the club. We are the second oldest professional club in world football, we have had some of the greats of English football wear the red and white stripes, we are known the world over in a way that most other clubs in our division are not(some might laugh at this, but Im currently living in South East Asia, if you mention our name everyone knows about the delap throw in and the cold windy night in stoke e.t.c.) We play in a proud working class area with a rich culture and history and with success would come a fervent support and 30,000 crowds every week.

6.But they back the managers

This is true, financially at least, however none of these managers have been given a structure to operate in successfully. Every manager since 2018 has failed at the club, that is not just bad luck that comes from a lack of vision and strategy at boardroom level. If you think all the managers are crap managers, then who has been appointing them?


7. Even if this is all true, John Coates won't sack himself, what do you suggest?

The owners often talk about their love of the area, then they should recognise what they are doing to its football club. There are plenty of options, bringing on board a minority shareholder with knowledge of football and how to operate successfully, retaining full control but bringing in an independent consultancy to audit the club and pinpoint the areas for improvement. Bringing in an independent Director of football to run the football side of things. Or as mentioned in the previous point, there would be people willing to buy the club based on the aforementioned history and reputation of the club.

Hopefully that changes a few peoples minds, in terms of what should be done next, questions need to be asked about the board at every opportunity, fans forums, praise and grumble and during matchdays, failing that it might time to bring out the old SOS banners again.

Quite possibly the post of the decade👏👏

Don’t expect any responses from the cult though, they can’t possibly argue against any of it.

Thanks, it’s important that these questions are asked at every opportunity. If results continue in their current direction these are the questions supporters need to be asking during matchdays, a couple of chants against them before or after a match and they might start some self reflection

[Staffsoatcake]

No4,who put us in that debt?

[thehoof]

Some numpties on here. The debt to a large degree was converted into equity shares held ultimately by the Coates family via its investment through Bet 365 and its associate/ subsidiaries.
Anyone who thinks that the shares will simply be given away or sold at some significant loss is not living in reality.
The point about us being an historic club known the world over who have had some of England’s greatest players didn’t have investors clamouring at the door the last time did it? We were bought by Icelanders for goodness sake- honourable people who thought it was the easiest way to get Icelandic players into the league?
The appointments made in the Head of Recruitment, Technical Director and Management roles have been the cause of our downfall, and ultimately that does rest with John Coates.
However, be very careful when making statements such as “ someone with less money might spend it better”- people with less money and a modicum of common sense wouldn’t invest in a football club- espescially one that has one major trophy, one FA Cup final appearance and one two legged League cup final as a measure of its success.

[LGH87]

Feb 25, 2024 12:52:34 GMT thehoof said:

Some numpties on here. The debt to a large degree was converted into equity shares held ultimately by the Coates family via its investment through Bet 365 and its associate/ subsidiaries.
Anyone who thinks that the shares will simply be given away or sold at some significant loss is not living in reality.
The point about us being an historic club known the world over who have had some of England’s greatest players didn’t have investors clamouring at the door the last time did it? We were bought by Icelanders for goodness sake- honourable people who thought it was the easiest way to get Icelandic players into the league?
The appointments made in the Head of Recruitment, Technical Director and Management roles have been the cause of our downfall, and ultimately that does rest with John Coates.
However, be very careful when making statements such as “ someone with less money might spend it better”- people with less money and a modicum of common sense wouldn’t invest in a football club- espescially one that has one major trophy, one FA Cup final appearance and one two legged League cup final as a measure of its success.

The point he’s making is other teams are miles ahead of us on much lower budgets.

You don’t have to spend spend spend to be successful. Something our board can’t seem to grasp.

[telfordstokie]

I agree with a lot of the opening post but the simple reality goes back to the question Mark Hughes asked before he was sacked - ‘Who else is going to do it?’ I’m not sure there’s a convincing answer to that.

[Staffsoatcake]

The Coates are not stupid,they now how to run a successful company,so why they can't see the way Stoke City is been run,just isn't working.

[march4]

Who is going to buy us - Carol Shanahan? Perhaps the Icelanders will come back for a couple of seasons. How about a Robbie Williams consortium - Aha and Adrian Lewis are Stoke fans, they could join him. How about that bloke at Reading, he might fancy a change of scene?

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Getting rid of the Coates family would be the single most crazy thing our club has ever done.

[danceswithclams]

Feb 25, 2024 13:09:33 GMT march4 said:

Who is going to buy us - Carol Shanahan? Perhaps the Icelanders will come back for a couple of seasons. How about a Robbie Williams consortium - Aha and Adrian Lewis are Stoke fans, they could join him. How about that bloke at Reading, he might fancy a change of scene?

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Getting rid of the Coates family would be the single most crazy thing our club has ever done.

So you're saying that there'd be not one person or entity in the entire world who'd be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC?

Can you explain how you can be so certain of this that you (and many others) repeat it as if it is immutable fact?


Didn't think so.

[andycooke96]

Feb 25, 2024 13:09:33 GMT march4 said:

Who is going to buy us - Carol Shanahan? Perhaps the Icelanders will come back for a couple of seasons. How about a Robbie Williams consortium - Aha and Adrian Lewis are Stoke fans, they could join him. How about that bloke at Reading, he might fancy a change of scene?

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Getting rid of the Coates family would be the single most crazy thing our club has ever done.

The most crazy thing we ever did was allowing a secure premier league status to turn into relegation within 8 years

[andycooke96]

Feb 25, 2024 12:52:34 GMT thehoof said:

Some numpties on here. The debt to a large degree was converted into equity shares held ultimately by the Coates family via its investment through Bet 365 and its associate/ subsidiaries.
Anyone who thinks that the shares will simply be given away or sold at some significant loss is not living in reality.
The point about us being an historic club known the world over who have had some of England’s greatest players didn’t have investors clamouring at the door the last time did it? We were bought by Icelanders for goodness sake- honourable people who thought it was the easiest way to get Icelandic players into the league?
The appointments made in the Head of Recruitment, Technical Director and Management roles have been the cause of our downfall, and ultimately that does rest with John Coates.
However, be very careful when making statements such as “ someone with less money might spend it better”- people with less money and a modicum of common sense wouldn’t invest in a football club- espescially one that has one major trophy, one FA Cup final appearance and one two legged League cup final as a measure of its success.

If you agree about poor decision making lying with John Coates then surely you agree that he should bring experienced people to help/takeover the daily running of the club

[thehoof]

Feb 25, 2024 12:54:49 GMT LGH87 said:

Feb 25, 2024 12:52:34 GMT thehoof said:

Some numpties on here. The debt to a large degree was converted into equity shares held ultimately by the Coates family via its investment through Bet 365 and its associate/ subsidiaries.
Anyone who thinks that the shares will simply be given away or sold at some significant loss is not living in reality.
The point about us being an historic club known the world over who have had some of England’s greatest players didn’t have investors clamouring at the door the last time did it? We were bought by Icelanders for goodness sake- honourable people who thought it was the easiest way to get Icelandic players into the league?
The appointments made in the Head of Recruitment, Technical Director and Management roles have been the cause of our downfall, and ultimately that does rest with John Coates.
However, be very careful when making statements such as “ someone with less money might spend it better”- people with less money and a modicum of common sense wouldn’t invest in a football club- espescially one that has one major trophy, one FA Cup final appearance and one two legged League cup final as a measure of its success.

The point he’s making is other teams are miles ahead of us on much lower budgets.

You don’t have to spend spend spend to be successful. Something our board can’t seem to grasp.

That’s true- however you do need to have money to build a squad.
I remember loads of posters on here saying that the purchase of Ince,Afobe would guarantee goals, Woods and Sawyers ( who looked class players for Brentford) would make us more than a match for the Championship. Nobody complained about how we spent money then! Two of those signings (Ince and Afobe) were an absolute waste of money, no resale value, no desire- it all goes back to then.

[thehoof]

Feb 25, 2024 14:26:08 GMT andycooke96 said:

Feb 25, 2024 12:52:34 GMT thehoof said:

Some numpties on here. The debt to a large degree was converted into equity shares held ultimately by the Coates family via its investment through Bet 365 and its associate/ subsidiaries.
Anyone who thinks that the shares will simply be given away or sold at some significant loss is not living in reality.
The point about us being an historic club known the world over who have had some of England’s greatest players didn’t have investors clamouring at the door the last time did it? We were bought by Icelanders for goodness sake- honourable people who thought it was the easiest way to get Icelandic players into the league?
The appointments made in the Head of Recruitment, Technical Director and Management roles have been the cause of our downfall, and ultimately that does rest with John Coates.
However, be very careful when making statements such as “ someone with less money might spend it better”- people with less money and a modicum of common sense wouldn’t invest in a football club- espescially one that has one major trophy, one FA Cup final appearance and one two legged League cup final as a measure of its success.

If you agree about poor decision making lying with John Coates then surely you agree that he should bring experienced people to help/takeover the daily running of the club

I don’t disagree with that point at all.

[cvillestokie]

Feb 25, 2024 13:07:50 GMT Staffsoatcake said:

The Coates are not stupid,they now how to run a successful company,so why they can't see the way Stoke City is been run,just isn't working.

Denise knows how to run a successful company. Jon simply inherited Stoke and has led it to low after new low.

[Paul Spencer]

Feb 25, 2024 14:26:08 GMT andycooke96 said:

Feb 25, 2024 12:52:34 GMT thehoof said:

Some numpties on here. The debt to a large degree was converted into equity shares held ultimately by the Coates family via its investment through Bet 365 and its associate/ subsidiaries.
Anyone who thinks that the shares will simply be given away or sold at some significant loss is not living in reality.
The point about us being an historic club known the world over who have had some of England’s greatest players didn’t have investors clamouring at the door the last time did it? We were bought by Icelanders for goodness sake- honourable people who thought it was the easiest way to get Icelandic players into the league?
The appointments made in the Head of Recruitment, Technical Director and Management roles have been the cause of our downfall, and ultimately that does rest with John Coates.
However, be very careful when making statements such as “ someone with less money might spend it better”- people with less money and a modicum of common sense wouldn’t invest in a football club- espescially one that has one major trophy, one FA Cup final appearance and one two legged League cup final as a measure of its success.

If you agree about poor decision making lying with John Coates then surely you agree that he should bring experienced people to help/takeover the daily running of the club

You're contradicting yourself and your point doesn't make any sense.

If he's so poor at bringing manager's in, so poor at bringing in recruitment teams in, so poor at bringing director's of football in, then what makes you so sure he'd be able to successfully bring in somebody to replace himself?

Maybe he would if he could but it's not like he can just wander down to the Football CEO Superstore and buy one that comes with a money back guarantee, is it?

[hoppo96]

They're excellent points. I'd like to add another, the idea they've been responsible for some unique success that we've had. The only thing they've done that we hadn't done before was make an FA Cup final. We'd made at least the Semi finals of the League Cup before, played in europe and yes we'd even had time in the top flight (a lot, something like half a century before 1985). Their total time is definitely more under-achievement than over-achievement.

Problem is we're reliant on the Coates family for funding, yet it seems obvious to me we're having no success under Coates Jr's leadership (for the record, I don't think PC was the perfect chairman either).

Perhaps not sell up but for me they don't deserve the adulation some give to them.

[Paul Spencer]

Feb 25, 2024 13:15:56 GMT danceswithclams said:

Feb 25, 2024 13:09:33 GMT march4 said:

Who is going to buy us - Carol Shanahan? Perhaps the Icelanders will come back for a couple of seasons. How about a Robbie Williams consortium - Aha and Adrian Lewis are Stoke fans, they could join him. How about that bloke at Reading, he might fancy a change of scene?

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Getting rid of the Coates family would be the single most crazy thing our club has ever done.

So you're saying that there'd be not one person or entity in the entire world who'd be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC?

Can you explain how you can be so certain of this that you (and many others) repeat it as if it is immutable fact?


Didn't think so.

That works both ways though.

I'm actually certain that no one would be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC.

Reason being, that absolutely nobody is going to cough up a quarter of a billion quid for a club that has won fuck all. Anybody looking to invest in a football club would have far sexier options available to them at that price.

To put it into context ... let's say SCFC was currently owned by somebody else completely and they wanted to put it up for sale. Do you seriously believe that the Coates family, one of the richest families in the country, life long Stoke fans and from the local area would be interested at that price?

Would they buggery!

Now if somebody with such perfect credentials, wouldn't be interested in buying the club, then why on earth would anybody else be interested?

Your turn to explain now.

And please don't come out with some naive nonsense about people in China knowing about the Delap throw, or Stoke being the second oldest club in England.

[LGH87]

Feb 25, 2024 18:47:12 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Feb 25, 2024 13:15:56 GMT danceswithclams said:

So you're saying that there'd be not one person or entity in the entire world who'd be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC?

Can you explain how you can be so certain of this that you (and many others) repeat it as if it is immutable fact?


Didn't think so.

That works both ways though.

I'm actually certain that no one would be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC.

Reason being, that absolutely nobody is going to cough up a quarter of a billion quid for a club that has won fuck all. Anybody looking to invest in a football club would have far sexier options available to them at that price.

To put it into context ... let's say SCFC was currently owned by somebody else completely and they wanted to put it up for sale. Do you seriously believe that the Coates family, one of the richest families in the country, life long Stoke fans and from the local area would be interested at that price?

Would they buggery!

Now if somebody with such perfect credentials, wouldn't be interested in buying the club, then why on earth would anybody else be interested?

Your turn to explain now.

And please don't come out with some naive nonsense about people in China knowing about the Delap throw, or Stoke being the second oldest club in England.

I didn’t realise you represent every billionaire on the planet.

They wouldn’t even need to sell the whole club, why would a deal like INEOS have struck with the glazers not be viable?

[danceswithclams]

Feb 25, 2024 18:47:12 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Feb 25, 2024 13:15:56 GMT danceswithclams said:

So you're saying that there'd be not one person or entity in the entire world who'd be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC?

Can you explain how you can be so certain of this that you (and many others) repeat it as if it is immutable fact?


Didn't think so.

That works both ways though.

I'm actually certain that no one would be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC.

Reason being, that absolutely nobody is going to cough up a quarter of a billion quid for a club that has won fuck all. Anybody looking to invest in a football club would have far sexier options available to them at that price.

To put it into context ... let's say SCFC was currently owned by somebody else completely and they wanted to put it up for sale. Do you seriously believe that the Coates family, one of the richest families in the country, life long Stoke fans and from the local area would be interested at that price?

Would they buggery!

Now if somebody with such perfect credentials, wouldn't be interested in buying the club, then why on earth would anybody else be interested?

Your turn to explain now.

And please don't come out with some naive nonsense about people in China knowing about the Delap throw, or Stoke being the second oldest club in England.

West Brom got bought the other week.

Burnley, Southampton, Leicester, Wolves, and Bournemouth have all been bought in recent times. Some may have been purchased when their stock was much higher than ours is right now but you'd hardly describe any of those as glamour clubs. In fact, most of them are very similar in stature and history as Stoke City FC.

The kicker however is, as you point out, the phenomenal cost involved given that the club is laden with debt due to the Coates spectacular mismanagement over the past 7 years that's required them to pump in vast quantities of cash to cover their own mistakes.

If they really love the club as much as I'm continually told though, surely they'd wipe those debts to make the club a more saleable prospect?

What's your solution to all this? The owners have shown no inkling towards bringing in outside 'help' or appointing a team of professionals who know what they're doing to run the club for them whilst they just sign the cheques. Nor does it look like they're willing to sell up.

So what do we do then? Just keep being 'forever grateful' that the club is kept from going out of business, even though that club could very well be in the fucking National League in a few seasons time due to the Coates incompetence?

[Paul Spencer]

Feb 25, 2024 19:07:58 GMT LGH87 said:

Feb 25, 2024 18:47:12 GMT Paul Spencer said:

That works both ways though.

I'm actually certain that no one would be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC.

Reason being, that absolutely nobody is going to cough up a quarter of a billion quid for a club that has won fuck all. Anybody looking to invest in a football club would have far sexier options available to them at that price.

To put it into context ... let's say SCFC was currently owned by somebody else completely and they wanted to put it up for sale. Do you seriously believe that the Coates family, one of the richest families in the country, life long Stoke fans and from the local area would be interested at that price?

Would they buggery!

Now if somebody with such perfect credentials, wouldn't be interested in buying the club, then why on earth would anybody else be interested?

Your turn to explain now.

And please don't come out with some naive nonsense about people in China knowing about the Delap throw, or Stoke being the second oldest club in England.

I didn’t realise you represent every billionaire on the planet.

They wouldn’t even need to sell the whole club, why would a deal like INEOS have struck with the glazers not be viable?

I've literally just explained why, in my post that you've quoted.

[LGH87]

Feb 25, 2024 19:12:12 GMT Paul Spencer said:

Feb 25, 2024 19:07:58 GMT LGH87 said:

I didn’t realise you represent every billionaire on the planet.

They wouldn’t even need to sell the whole club, why would a deal like INEOS have struck with the glazers not be viable?

I've literally just explained why, in my post that you've quoted.

There’s nothing there about part ownership?

[Paul Spencer]

Feb 25, 2024 19:09:28 GMT danceswithclams said:

Feb 25, 2024 18:47:12 GMT Paul Spencer said:

That works both ways though.

I'm actually certain that no one would be interested in purchasing Stoke City FC.

Reason being, that absolutely nobody is going to cough up a quarter of a billion quid for a club that has won fuck all. Anybody looking to invest in a football club would have far sexier options available to them at that price.

To put it into context ... let's say SCFC was currently owned by somebody else completely and they wanted to put it up for sale. Do you seriously believe that the Coates family, one of the richest families in the country, life long Stoke fans and from the local area would be interested at that price?

Would they buggery!

Now if somebody with such perfect credentials, wouldn't be interested in buying the club, then why on earth would anybody else be interested?

Your turn to explain now.

And please don't come out with some naive nonsense about people in China knowing about the Delap throw, or Stoke being the second oldest club in England.

The kicker however is, as you point out, the phenomenal cost involved given that the club is laden with debt due to the Coates spectacular mismanagement over the past 7 years that's required them to pump in vast quantities of cash to cover their own mistakes.

If they really love the club as much as I'm continually told though, surely they'd wipe those debts to make the club a more saleable prospect?

Exactly.

Surely they would wipe the debts? I think you're being massively presumptuous on that one. And really I don't think emotional blackmail is going to work with them.

What do I think?

I think we have to accept the reality of the situation. Our owners are absolutely minted but they're utterly dreadful at running a football club but now we've got to a point where we're in a financial position that gives us no opportunity for a change.

We have to hope that one day they will get their manager and recruitment appointments right and they will then use their untold wealth to capitalise on those appointments but until that time, sadly, it is what it is.