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Post by andycooke96 on Feb 26, 2024 7:18:15 GMT
Is this the same Notts County who were purchased by a danish consortium who own a football analysis company, got them promoted despite being in the same league as Wrexham and had their manager poached because he plays an expansive style of football? Seem like a well run club to me It’s the same Notts County who’ve spent a lot of time out of the league recently and haven’t been in the top flight for over 40 years. They’re the oldest club in the world. And yet they were still attractive to a new owner,
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Post by hoppo96 on Feb 26, 2024 7:58:05 GMT
The current lot have crippled us for nigh on 10 years and counting so what’s the difference?😂 Clearly you seem to think that Stoke's history began in the Premiership. The Coates family delivered 10 of the best years supporting Stoke. Football is cyclical. We are in a lean patch. We will return to the Prem sooner or later. As we have done (top flight) throughout our entire history. We will fall backj again. As we have done throughout our history. and that's the problem. Since relegation we have looked nowhere near a return to the top flight. But because they have lots of money, people think it's just round the corner. If we are relegated from this level that'll be the third time under this ownership. The only people post war to have managed this. It's not our natural level, We've spent more than half of our league existence in the top flight
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Post by stokieinlondon on Feb 26, 2024 8:42:45 GMT
It’s the same Notts County who’ve spent a lot of time out of the league recently and haven’t been in the top flight for over 40 years. They’re the oldest club in the world. And yet they were still attractive to a new owner, Let’s see where this all gets them. They lost at home to Crewe on Saturday.
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 10:10:39 GMT
There is a long time Oatcake user/reader who would better articulate the following, but I'll leave it to them if they read this and choose to expand or illuminate with examples that which I'm referring to.
Companies own products which are developed as brands. Sometimes companies forget what their products/brands mean to consumers, particularly with old, legacy brands and products which can if not attended to, be disregarded as old hat, with long held misperceptions taking root. Astute (or desperate) companies employ advertising or branding agencies not just to simply to sell their products/brands, but to undertake research and development to better understand their products/brands in terms of how they are presented and then by extension, understood more widely by customers, by other companies, by third parties such as supermarkets and stockists. This works well when the owners of the companies and the products they make and sell, trust the advertising agency to tell them what they don't know, to correct their perceptions and tell them where they are going wrong. They still retain ownership and control of their brands and products, but entrust the improvements, development and communication strategy to the third party - the ad agency, whose job it is not to try and persuade people into buying something, but to reposition it, to recalibrate the spaces in which it is best understood. By entrusting a third party with a completely different skill set and expertise to their own, it can make an enormous difference.
In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings.
The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast.
The only thing that John Coates is guilty of is guessing. Your can't guess your way to success.
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I suspect Denise Coates is not a data modelling expert, a probability genius or a branding expert, but she sure as shit employs a fair few.
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 26, 2024 10:20:02 GMT
There is a long time Oatcake user/reader who would perhaps best articulate the following, but I'll leave it to them if they read this to expand or illuminate with examples that which I'm referring to. Companies own products which are developed as brands. Sometimes companies forget what their products/brands mean to consumers, particularly with old, legacy brands and products which can if not attended to, be disregarded as old hat, with long held misperceptions taking root. Astute (or desperate) companies employ advertising or branding agencies not just to simply to sell their products/brands, but to undertake research and development to better understand their products/brands in terms of how they are presented and then by extension, understood more widely by customers, by other companies, by third parties such as supermarkets and stockists. This works well when the owners of the companies and the products they make and sell, trust the advertising agency to tell them what they don't know, to correct their perceptions and tell them where they are going wrong. They still retain ownership and control of their brands and products, but entrust the improvements, development and communication strategy to the third party - the ad agency, whose job it is not to try and persuade people into buying something, but to reposition it, to recalibrate the spaces in which it is best understood. By entrusting a third party with a completely different skill set and expertise to their own, it can make an enormous difference. In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings. The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast. The only thing that John Coates is guilty of is guessing. Your can't guess your way to success. In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings.
The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast.Which is exactly the point I was trying to make late last night but for some reason Paul Spencer and other's can't seem to grasp the idea
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 12:01:13 GMT
There is a long time Oatcake user/reader who would perhaps best articulate the following, but I'll leave it to them if they read this to expand or illuminate with examples that which I'm referring to. Companies own products which are developed as brands. Sometimes companies forget what their products/brands mean to consumers, particularly with old, legacy brands and products which can if not attended to, be disregarded as old hat, with long held misperceptions taking root. Astute (or desperate) companies employ advertising or branding agencies not just to simply to sell their products/brands, but to undertake research and development to better understand their products/brands in terms of how they are presented and then by extension, understood more widely by customers, by other companies, by third parties such as supermarkets and stockists. This works well when the owners of the companies and the products they make and sell, trust the advertising agency to tell them what they don't know, to correct their perceptions and tell them where they are going wrong. They still retain ownership and control of their brands and products, but entrust the improvements, development and communication strategy to the third party - the ad agency, whose job it is not to try and persuade people into buying something, but to reposition it, to recalibrate the spaces in which it is best understood. By entrusting a third party with a completely different skill set and expertise to their own, it can make an enormous difference. In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings. The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast. The only thing that John Coates is guilty of is guessing. Your can't guess your way to success. In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings.
The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast.Which is exactly the point I was trying to make late last night but for some reason Paul Spencer and other's can't seem to grasp the idea No, YOU still can't grasp the lack of logic in what you're asking, despite numerous people attempting to explain it to you. You're entire issue with the Coates Family, is how poor their decision making has been and yet you somehow believe, that the solution to their problem of poor decision making, is for them to make the biggest decision of all! If they're so terrible at decision making, what makes you believe they will get the decision of who to bring in as a third party, right? And then what happens next, when they inevitably get that decision wrong?
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 26, 2024 12:08:14 GMT
In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings.
The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast.Which is exactly the point I was trying to make late last night but for some reason Paul Spencer and other's can't seem to grasp the idea No, YOU still can't grasp the lack of logic in what you're asking, despite numerous people attempting to explain it to you. You're entire issue with the Coates Family, is how poor their decision making has been and yet you somehow believe, that the solution to their problem of poor decision making, is for them to make the biggest decision of all! If they're so terrible at decision making, what makes you believe they will get the decision of who to bring in as a third party, right? And then what happens next, when they inevitably get that decision wrong? Skip has literally said they bring in a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure. They can't get that bit wrong if they bring in one of the industry leaders ffs. That's the whole point. The main problem up to now is that they've been reluctant to seek outside help and have continuously got it wrong. Barring MON, who unfortunately lost his way in the end. What I do have faith in, is their ability to find an industry leading firm like Skip describes. I know for a fact they do at 365, so it's time they did it with the club too.
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 26, 2024 12:19:40 GMT
In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings.
The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast.Which is exactly the point I was trying to make late last night but for some reason Paul Spencer and other's can't seem to grasp the idea No, YOU still can't grasp the lack of logic in what you're asking, despite numerous people attempting to explain it to you. You're entire issue with the Coates Family, is how poor their decision making has been and yet you somehow believe, that the solution to their problem of poor decision making, is for them to make the biggest decision of all! If they're so terrible at decision making, what makes you believe they will get the decision of who to bring in as a third party, right? And then what happens next, when they inevitably get that decision wrong? So because I've criticised their decision making (which everyone agrees has been fucking awful) I'm not allowed to suggest they need help from outside parties because they may get the decision on who to use wrong? I'm not sure that's how life works pal but ok, you crack on
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 12:33:21 GMT
In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings.
The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast.Which is exactly the point I was trying to make late last night but for some reason Paul Spencer and other's can't seem to grasp the idea No, YOU still can't grasp the lack of logic in what you're asking, despite numerous people attempting to explain it to you. You're entire issue with the Coates Family, is how poor their decision making has been and yet you somehow believe, that the solution to their problem of poor decision making, is for them to make the biggest decision of all! If they're so terrible at decision making, what makes you believe they will get the decision of who to bring in as a third party, right? And then what happens next, when they inevitably get that decision wrong? To extend my branding/advertising parallel/metaphor, they put it out to tender, allowing those that think they're best, and those having a track record in turning companies around, pitch for the account. With the money they've got, this is more than possible. I can think of two companies that could take this on and it would then be their job - or part of their proposal - to source the on-field and off-field expertise as part of their research and development. The decision need not be down to John, he just has to acknowledge the need and sanction the process. edit/addendum: It happens, and it often works, as seen when for example, England Cricket sought the expertise and knowledge of elite rugby coaches, or when British Cycling (latterly Team GB) sought knowledge and expertise from elite swimming coaches, to say nothing of non-sporting organisations seeking to learn from businesses in other sectors.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 12:36:37 GMT
No, YOU still can't grasp the lack of logic in what you're asking, despite numerous people attempting to explain it to you. You're entire issue with the Coates Family, is how poor their decision making has been and yet you somehow believe, that the solution to their problem of poor decision making, is for them to make the biggest decision of all! If they're so terrible at decision making, what makes you believe they will get the decision of who to bring in as a third party, right? And then what happens next, when they inevitably get that decision wrong? they bring in a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure. They can't get that bit wrong Oh come on, please, you've just spent the last few pages telling us how every decision they've made over the last few years has been wrong (and I wouldn't disagree with you) and now you're suggesting that the biggest single decision that they could ever make, will be a guaranteed banker? With respect mate, that's the very definition of illogical. They've just brought in their first Director of Football and first Director(ish) of transfers, after people urging them to get help - both have been spectacular flops. Chelsea have spent over a billion pounds on transfers and gone through managers like a dose of salts and still got absolutely nowhere, they're decision making has been terrible to. Maybe they should bring in this mythical third party with guaranteed expertise that gets you results too. And having said all that, I'm not against them bringing in a third party at all, far from it. I just don't want you to nievely believe that it will be a panacea for all of our ills. The one thing we can take from all of this, is that the Coates family consistently make rubbish decisions and we simply have to accept that for what it is and until they get lucky (because ultimately that's what it will be), be it with a manager, a director of football, a recruitment director, or even a mythical third party to run the whole thing, then (as I said to you originally) it is what it is.
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 26, 2024 12:39:55 GMT
they bring in a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure. They can't get that bit wrong Oh come on, please, you've just spent the last few pages telling us how every decision they've made over the last few years has been wrong (and I wouldn't disagree with you) and now you're suggesting that the biggest single decision that they could ever make, will be a guaranteed banker? With respect mate, that's the very definition of illogical. They've just brought in their first Director of Football and first Director(ish) of transfers, after people urging them to get help - both have been spectacular flops. Chelsea have spent over a billion pounds on transfers and gone through managers like a dose of salts and still got absolutely nowhere. Maybe they should bring in this mythical third party with guaranteed expertise that gets you results too. And having said all that, I'm not against them bringing in a third part at all, far from it. I just don't want you to nievely believe that it will be a panacea for all of our ills. The one thing we can take from all of this, is that the Coates family consistently make rubbish decisions and we simply have to accept that for what it is and until they get lucky (because ultimately that's what it will be), be it with a manager, a director of football, a recruitment director, or even a mythical third party to run the whole thing, then (as I said to you originally) it is what it is. I haven't said we need a mythical third party to run the whole thing, the mythical third party is brought in to help with the recruitment of the roles you described. I don't naively believe that it will be a panacea for all of our ills but it would give us the best chance at getting it right (or lucky!). One things for certain if it's left solely to them again, the chances are they'll get it wrong....again. Which is why I said to you originally, we can't just sit by and idly let them make the same mistakes again. We need to make them sit up and realise they need help. There's been little to no pressure on them from the fans during all of this shite, they've had an easy ride. It needs to change.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 12:44:15 GMT
Oh come on, please, you've just spent the last few pages telling us how every decision they've made over the last few years has been wrong (and I wouldn't disagree with you) and now you're suggesting that the biggest single decision that they could ever make, will be a guaranteed banker? With respect mate, that's the very definition of illogical. They've just brought in their first Director of Football and first Director(ish) of transfers, after people urging them to get help - both have been spectacular flops. Chelsea have spent over a billion pounds on transfers and gone through managers like a dose of salts and still got absolutely nowhere. Maybe they should bring in this mythical third party with guaranteed expertise that gets you results too. And having said all that, I'm not against them bringing in a third part at all, far from it. I just don't want you to nievely believe that it will be a panacea for all of our ills. The one thing we can take from all of this, is that the Coates family consistently make rubbish decisions and we simply have to accept that for what it is and until they get lucky (because ultimately that's what it will be), be it with a manager, a director of football, a recruitment director, or even a mythical third party to run the whole thing, then (as I said to you originally) it is what it is. I haven't said we need a mythical third party to run the whole thing, the mythical third party is brought in to help with the recruitment of the roles you described. I don't naively believe that it will be a panacea for all of our ills but it would give us the best chance at getting it right (or lucky!). One things for certain if it's left solely to them again, the chances are they'll get it wrong....again. And whose decision will it be, that ultimately decides which mythical third party to bring in?
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 12:46:42 GMT
They've just brought in their first Director of Football and first Director(ish) of transfers, after people urging them to get help - both have been spectacular flops. Chelsea have spent over a billion pounds on transfers and gone through managers like a dose of salts and still got absolutely nowhere, they're decision making has been terrible to. Hi Paul. The most recent problem (unmitigated disaster) was that the way Coates went about recruiting a DoF (the incoming manager's mate, FFS). How they/we ended up with Dublin who has a Level 1 certificate in scouting for players (see my post on another thread a couple of weeks back) is anybody's guess. Chelsea and Stoke are currently two peas in a pod. Throwing money at a woefully misunderstood problem and hoping some of it sticks. I would argue that Chelsea are now a decade behind Man City, and at least the Glazers have woken up and realised that they need someone in to make progress happen at Man Utd, that has resulted in Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe who began his road to making billions as a chemical engineer. If Stoke don't want to, or don't know how to use a third party, then they need some real heavyweight articulate brains in the boardroom. Seeing as Stoke (Bet 365) have got money to burn, they could do a lot worse than bringing in a Dragon or two.
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 12:48:16 GMT
I haven't said we need a mythical third party to run the whole thing, the mythical third party is brought in to help with the recruitment of the roles you described. I don't naively believe that it will be a panacea for all of our ills but it would give us the best chance at getting it right (or lucky!). One things for certain if it's left solely to them again, the chances are they'll get it wrong....again. And whose decision will it be, that ultimately decides which mythical third party to bring in? They put it out to tender, via taking expert advice on the tendering process. All of this is of course unicorn thinking unless John (and his dad) acknowledge that something radical needs to happen.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 12:56:25 GMT
They've just brought in their first Director of Football and first Director(ish) of transfers, after people urging them to get help - both have been spectacular flops. Chelsea have spent over a billion pounds on transfers and gone through managers like a dose of salts and still got absolutely nowhere, they're decision making has been terrible to. Hi Paul. The most recent problem (unmitigated disaster) was that the way Coates went about recruiting a DoF (the incoming manager's mate, FFS). How they/we ended up with Dublin who has a Level 1 certificate in recruitment (see my post on another thread a couple of weeks back) is anybody's guess. Chelsea and Stoke are currently two peas in a pod. Throwing money at a woefully problem and hoping some of it sticks. I would argue that Chelsea are now a decade behind Man City, and at least the Glazers have woken up and realised that they need someone in to make change happen that has resulted in Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe who began his road to making billions as a chemical engineer. If Stoke don't want to, or don't know how to use a third party, then they need some real heavyweight articulate brains in the boardroom. Hi Craig There are many football commentators out there who have expressed the opinion, that James Ratcliffe knows pretty much fuck all about football and that this whole process is nothing more than a vanity project on his part. Until we see how it ultimately pans out, I don't think we can use it as an example either way. The fundamental irony at Stoke, is that no matter how you want to spin it, ANY process at the club will ultimately have to begin with a decision made by the Coates family (who, everybody seems to agree, are terrible at decision making).
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 13:00:08 GMT
And whose decision will it be, that ultimately decides which mythical third party to bring in? They put it out to tender, via taking expert advice on the tendering process. All of this is of course unicorn thinking unless John (and his dad) acknowledge that something radical needs to happen. And who makes the decision on who to choose to give them advice on the tendering process?
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 13:01:03 GMT
Hi Paul. The most recent problem (unmitigated disaster) was that the way Coates went about recruiting a DoF (the incoming manager's mate, FFS). How they/we ended up with Dublin who has a Level 1 certificate in recruitment (see my post on another thread a couple of weeks back) is anybody's guess. Chelsea and Stoke are currently two peas in a pod. Throwing money at a woefully problem and hoping some of it sticks. I would argue that Chelsea are now a decade behind Man City, and at least the Glazers have woken up and realised that they need someone in to make change happen that has resulted in Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe who began his road to making billions as a chemical engineer. If Stoke don't want to, or don't know how to use a third party, then they need some real heavyweight articulate brains in the boardroom. Hi Craig There are many football commentators out there who have expressed the opinion, that James Ratcliffe knows pretty much fuck all about football and that this whole process is nothing more than a vanity project on his part. Until he see how it ultimately pans out, I don't think we can use it as an example either way. The fundamental irony at Stoke, is that no matter how you want to spin it, ANY process on the club will ultimately have to begin with a decision made by the Coates family (who, everybody seems to agree, are terrible at decision making). I will watch the Ratcliffe-era Man Utd thing with a close eye from a distance, if you know what I mean. I am genuinely intrigued to see what will happen, and yes, it might end in ignominy for all concerned, but given Glazer's stubborn refusal to sell the club (that puts me in mind of the excellent drama, KIN, where all decisions are only taken once they're not likely to be perceived as s sign of weakness), then by at least bringing Ratcliffe in will be interesting. Couldn't agree more about the tragic irony of the people in charge at Stoke and decision making. So tragic and ironic it's enough to make Shakespeare blush. But they've got to try something, and I can't believe for one second, that Coates Sr. at least knows that right now we're beyond SNAFU and quickly approaching FUBAR.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Feb 26, 2024 13:06:22 GMT
From established Premier League club to League One in seven years. It is a shame that Netflix did not come knocking on our door! 😅 The season is not over yet! It is a good job it isn't to be fair! 😂
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 13:07:11 GMT
They put it out to tender, via taking expert advice on the tendering process. All of this is of course unicorn thinking unless John (and his dad) acknowledge that something radical needs to happen. And who makes the decision on who to choose to give them advice on the tendering process? As my current account and savings can attest, unfortunately I'm not far enough up the professional food chain to know the ins and outs of tendering procurement but I know of companies like Executive Compass who specialise in being paid to do the thinking and then actioning the process. If you have a leaky bathtub, you seek out advice from friends and Trust Pilot and get the best plumber in. Coates should just be looking for the best Blue Chip equivalent. The trouble we have right now, John Coates doesn't seem to realise why there is water pissing through his downstairs ceiling. It's the bathtub John, the bathtub!!
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 26, 2024 13:08:57 GMT
They've just brought in their first Director of Football and first Director(ish) of transfers, after people urging them to get help - both have been spectacular flops. Chelsea have spent over a billion pounds on transfers and gone through managers like a dose of salts and still got absolutely nowhere, they're decision making has been terrible to. Hi Paul. The most recent problem (unmitigated disaster) was that the way Coates went about recruiting a DoF (the incoming manager's mate, FFS). How they/we ended up with Dublin who has a Level 1 certificate in scouting for players (see my post on another thread a couple of weeks back) is anybody's guess. Chelsea and Stoke are currently two peas in a pod. Throwing money at a woefully misunderstood problem and hoping some of it sticks. I would argue that Chelsea are now a decade behind Man City, and at least the Glazers have woken up and realised that they need someone in to make progress happen at Man Utd, that has resulted in Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe who began his road to making billions as a chemical engineer. If Stoke don't want to, or don't know how to use a third party, then they need some real heavyweight articulate brains in the boardroom. Seeing as Stoke (Bet 365) have got money to burn, they could do a lot worse than bringing in a Dragon or two. my view is that ratcliffe is primarily interested in sportswashing
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 13:09:53 GMT
And who makes the decision on who to choose to give them advice on the tendering process? As my current account and savings can attest, unfortunately I'm not far enough up the professional food chain to know the ins and outs of tendering procurement but I know of companies like Executive Compass who specialise in being paid to do the thinking and then actioning the process. I'm not being facetious but if you have a leaky bathtub, you seek out advice from friends and Trust Pilot and get the best one in. Coates should just be looking for the best Blue Chip equivalent. But as we've both agreed, the tragic irony is, that the bad decision makers, who have got us into this mess, are ultimately going to be the ones to decide which one to choose.
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 13:12:14 GMT
As my current account and savings can attest, unfortunately I'm not far enough up the professional food chain to know the ins and outs of tendering procurement but I know of companies like Executive Compass who specialise in being paid to do the thinking and then actioning the process. I'm not being facetious but if you have a leaky bathtub, you seek out advice from friends and Trust Pilot and get the best one in. Coates should just be looking for the best Blue Chip equivalent. But as we've both agreed, the tragic irony is, that the bad decision makers, who have got us into this mess, are ultimately going to be the ones to decide which one to choose. Oh I get that - and as a life long supporter, it isn't just a wicked problem, it's an emotional mindfuck.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 26, 2024 13:13:44 GMT
In footballing terms, Stoke City (The Coates Family), need to entrust the Where Now Where Next process to a third party with expertise in elite sports/football club/company management and structure, to facilitate a full investigation into its working methods and crucially, to listen to the findings.
The is no need for The Coates Family to sell up, but they need the expertise of others to help them remodel their structure and operational model. And fast.Which is exactly the point I was trying to make late last night but for some reason Paul Spencer and other's can't seem to grasp the idea No, YOU still can't grasp the lack of logic in what you're asking, despite numerous people attempting to explain it to you. You're entire issue with the Coates Family, is how poor their decision making has been and yet you somehow believe, that the solution to their problem of poor decision making, is for them to make the biggest decision of all! If they're so terrible at decision making, what makes you believe they will get the decision of who to bring in as a third party, right? And then what happens next, when they inevitably get that decision wrong? The level of complexity in the decisions aren't in the same league: 1 Identifying a credible third party with a long and good track record in Sports management is not that difficult, involves one actual decision and shouldn't take very long. 2 Actually deciding on and successfully implementing a structure to support a successful football club is difficult, involves multiple, inter related decisions and takes a long time. The current owners have made some bad decisions and don't look like they have got what it takes to run a modern professional football club. What they do have is the money and genuine desire to make the club successful. What is being proposed is that they get out of making the tough decisions and give it to people better qualified to make them. The actual decision on what consultancy to use wouldn't be that hard and to be honest any credible agency would do a better job than they are - they don't even have to get the best one, just one with a decent track record. The hard bit is the board accepting their limitations and having the self awareness and humility to give the job of running the club to someone else and take a backseat.
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 13:20:38 GMT
Five steps to reversing the decline:
1. John Coates admits that Stoke City is in terminal decline. 2. John Coates pays his Executive PA to spend eight hours doing nothing but sourcing Procurement Tendering Specialists. 3. John Coates asks Bet365 (his sister) for advice on who to choose. 4. Denise Coates pays someone a lot of money to take the decision for her brother. 5. John Coates sanctions the intervention and signs off the process.
Everyone involved signs watertight NDAs with huge penalties for any disclosure.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 14:15:56 GMT
No, YOU still can't grasp the lack of logic in what you're asking, despite numerous people attempting to explain it to you. You're entire issue with the Coates Family, is how poor their decision making has been and yet you somehow believe, that the solution to their problem of poor decision making, is for them to make the biggest decision of all! If they're so terrible at decision making, what makes you believe they will get the decision of who to bring in as a third party, right? And then what happens next, when they inevitably get that decision wrong? The actual decision on what consultancy to use wouldn't be that hard You see this goes to the absolute heart of the discussion and I fundamentally disagree with you, I think you make it sound much simpler than it is. I tell you what, which are the top three consultancy's in the game and at which clubs have they shown a proven track record of success? As money is no object, you would think that these would be the specific agencies the family would be interested in, wouldn't you? Cheers
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 14:19:50 GMT
Five steps to reversing the decline: 1. John Coates admits that Stoke City is in terminal decline. 2. John Coates pays his Executive PA to spend eight hours doing nothing but sourcing Procurement Tendering Specialists. 3. John Coates asks Bet365 (his sister) for advice on who to choose. 4. Denise Coates pays someone a lot of money to take the decision for her brother. 5. John Coates sanctions the intervention and signs off the process. Everyone involved signs watertight NDAs with huge penalties for any disclosure. 3. and 4. is where the weak links in the process arise isn't it?
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Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 14:56:54 GMT
Five steps to reversing the decline: 1. John Coates admits that Stoke City is in terminal decline. 2. John Coates pays his Executive PA to spend eight hours doing nothing but sourcing Procurement Tendering Specialists. 3. John Coates asks Bet365 (his sister) for advice on who to choose. 4. Denise Coates pays someone a lot of money to take the decision for her brother. 5. John Coates sanctions the intervention and signs off the process. Everyone involved signs watertight NDAs with huge penalties for any disclosure. 3. and 4. is where the weak links in the process arise isn't it? Yes. And I go back again to Succession, Kin and other stories, about elite families with power doing what needs to be done to address any perception of or real weakness. Either John asks for help and Denise agrees, or well, we can predict the rest.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Feb 26, 2024 14:57:25 GMT
No it doesn’t. The family just need to find out which are the best / most expensive recruitment consultants in the world (I’m sure Denise would help John with that) and turn over the whole recruitment process for CEO and DOF to them and then pay their bill at the end of the process. I assume you are being sarcastic, hard to tell on here sometimes? 😁 No mate. I was being serious. Apologies I am on my way back from our long weekend in Cardiff so have not read the rest of the thread fully yet but a quick skim suggest that use of consultants is where the debate on this thread has headed.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Feb 26, 2024 15:06:27 GMT
The actual decision on what consultancy to use wouldn't be that hard You see this goes to the absolute heart of the discussion and I fundamentally disagree with you, I think you make it sound much simpler than it is. I tell you what, which are the top three consultancy's in the game and at which clubs have they shown a proven track record of success? As money is no object, you would think that these would be the specific agencies the family would be interested in, wouldn't you? Cheers Completely off the top of my head without doing any specific research into it I would say the 2 top consultancy firms in the world are McKinsey and BCG. You appoint one of them (it really doesn’t matter which) and they then use their worldwide network of expertise and contacts to identify the top sports consultancy. John’s brief to them doesn’t need to be complicated (he just tells them he wants to get back into the PL) and they do the rest including identifying the specific structure for SCFC and the right people.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 26, 2024 15:10:34 GMT
You see this goes to the absolute heart of the discussion and I fundamentally disagree with you, I think you make it sound much simpler than it is. I tell you what, which are the top three consultancy's in the game and at which clubs have they shown a proven track record of success? As money is no object, you would think that these would be the specific agencies the family would be interested in, wouldn't you? Cheers Completely off the top of my head without doing any specific research into it I would say the 2 top consultancy firms in the world are McKinsey and BCG. You appoint one of them (it really doesn’t matter which) and they then use their worldwide network of expertise and contacts to identify the top sports consultancy. John’s brief to them doesn’t need to be complicated (he just tells them he wants to get back into the PL) and they do the rest including identifying the specific structure for SCFC and the right people.
Thanks for the answer CS and at which football clubs do they have a proven track record of success?
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